New York State SmartTranscripts:

[Assemblymember Charles D. Fall]: Madam speaker, will you please call the house to order?

[Acting Speaker (female presiding officer)]: The house will come to order. Good afternoon colleagues and guests. Imam Tahir Kukhaj will offer a prayer.

[Imam Tahir Kukaj]: In the name of God, most gracious, most merciful, we thank God almighty for his countless blessings. Blessings of this chamber members of this great institution of our great state of New York. We gather during the holy month of Ramadan, a time when many of our neighbors are focused on prayer, self reflection, and acts of service. We've been celebrating this holy month of Ramadan along our neighbors, Jewish neighbors, whether they were celebrating Purim, our neighbors, Christian neighbors celebrating length, our Hindu neighbors, New Yorkers celebrating Holi. So we pray to god almighty to drive from the spirit today as we acknowledge the viral demanding work of this legislative body. We ask for a special blessing upon each member present. Grant them clarity of mind as they weigh the complex issues before them. May they be guided by a spirit of genuine cooperation and the courage to advocate for the common good, putting the needs of the people above the noise of the day. We recognize the immense sacrifice and dedication inherent in this role. We pray that you grant them endurance for their long hours and humility in their authority. May their words in this chamber be used to build bridges, to resolve conflicts, and to lift up those who are most vulnerable amongst us. May their decisions today leave a lasting positive mark on our great state of New York, fostering a future that is just, equitable, and prosperous for all. God almighty bless this assembly, bless their deliberations, and may their commitment to public service always be renewed. God almighty, we bless we ask you that you bless our New York state and our country, the greatest country on earth, United States Of America. In your name, we make this prayer. Amen.

[Acting Speaker (female presiding officer)]: Amen. Visitors are invited to join members in the pledge of allegiance. A quorum being present, the clerk will read the journal of Monday, March 9. Mister Fall.

[Assemblymember Charles D. Fall]: Madam speaker, I move to dispense with the further reading of the journal of Monday, March 9, and that the same stand approved. Without objection, so ordered. Have a quote today from Harriet Tubman and the quote is

[Acting Speaker (female presiding officer)]: One moment mister Fall. Can we have quiet in the chamber please? Take your seats. Take your conversations outside. Thank you. Go ahead mister Fall.

[Assemblymember Charles D. Fall]: Thank you madam speaker. The quote that we have here today is from Harriet Tubman. And it says, I wish the conductor of the underground railroad for eight years. I'm sorry, I was the conductor of the underground railroad for eight years and I can say what most conductors can't say. I never ran my train off the track and I never lost a passenger. And these words are from Harriet Tubman. Madam speaker, members have on their desk an a calendar. After any housekeeping and or introductions we will begin our floor work by taking up calendar resolutions on page three. We will then consent the following bills, calendar 44 by Ms. Tapia and calendar 47 by Ms. Pauling. After that, we will take up the following bills on debate, rules report 18 by Ms. Glick and rules report 29 by miss Rosenthal. I will announce any further floor activity as we proceed. So with that as a general outline, madam speaker let us begin with any housekeeping and or introductions.

[Acting Speaker (female presiding officer)]: Thank you. We do have a piece of housekeeping on a motion by miss Rosenthal, page 14, calendar number 52, bill number a one four one zero. The amendments are received and adopted. We will start with an introduction from you, mister Fall. Please.

[Assemblymember Charles D. Fall]: Thank you, madam speaker. It is a great honor and a pleasure to welcome and introduce Imam Tahir back to the people's house. You know, Imam Tahir has done the invocation during the month of Ramadan for the last eight consecutive years, and I do appreciate him making the trip to Albany from Staten Island. And, you know, Imam Tahir is not only the leader of the Albanian Cultural Center on Staten Island, but he's also a chaplain for the New York City Police Department. He serves our community in so many different ways. He always opens up his community center to the public of various events during every part of the year. And he's also a wonderful reflection on, you know what this holy month of Ramadan means. You know taking care of your neighbors, giving charity and good amount of self reflection. So if you would be so kind to welcome Imam Syhir on to the people's house, would be greatly appreciated, madam speaker.

[Acting Speaker (female presiding officer)]: On behalf of mister Fall, the speaker and all members, welcome back, Imam, to the assembly chamber. We extend you the privileges of the floor and hope you enjoy our proceedings today. We appreciate your annual visit to Albany to give blessings to us for this holy month. Thank you so very much for joining us today.

[Imam Tahir Kukaj]: God bless you all. Thank you.

[Acting Speaker (female presiding officer)]: Mister Ikis, for the purpose of an introduction.

[Assemblymember Chris Eachus]: Thank you, Madam Speaker. We have quite a bit going on in the house today. On behalf of Assemblyman Jonathan Jacobsen, Assemblywoman Paula Kay, and myself, I have the pleasure of introducing nursing students from SUNY Orange and CUNY York College. If they'd stand up. There we go. Joining us alongside the students are Professor Lisa Zieleberg, Pamela Hilton, Vanessa Carrue, Doctor. Margaret Alexandre, and Doctor. Patricia Burke. These nursing students and faculty are here today meeting with the legislators on behalf of NYSNA. NYSNA is a union that represents more than 42,000 nurses and healthcare professionals throughout the state of New York. Being the brother of two RNs myself, I have a personal connection to nursing. I'm incredibly inspired to see so many young people excited about serving their communities, provide life saving treatment to New Yorkers, and joining one of the most critical areas of our workforce. Nursing is an integral part of our communities, ensuring the essential work of keeping New Yorkers safe and is done in a safe way and a professional manner. As a teacher of forty years, I know that students represent our future. There's our future right there. Thank you, folks. And the future of New York in a shining, a brighter future because of those that are here with us today. With that, I would ask Madam Speaker that you please welcome the SUNY Orange and CUNY York College nursing students and faculty to the chamber and extend them privileges of the house. Thank you.

[Acting Speaker (female presiding officer)]: Thank you. On behalf of mister Ikis, the speaker, and all members, we welcome our SUNY Orange and CUNY, your college nursing students as you traveled here today to represent, NISNA and all things health care. Thank you for all of the wonderful work that you do and will continue to do in this healthcare space. We hope you enjoy our proceedings today. Thank you so very much for joining us. Mr. Santa Barbara for purpose of an introduction.

[Assembly Reading Clerk]: Okay, buddy. Come on. Okay. Right? Okay.

[Assemblymember Angelo Santabarbara]: Thank you, madam speaker. Today, I rise to introduce a very special guest joining us here in the chamber, my son, Michael. He he's joining us for today's disabilities rally and being Michael's dad has been one of the greatest blessings of my life. Michael and I have been on a journey together as he has faced the challenges of autism. He brings incredible joy, determination, and perspective to our family and to everyone who knows him. Before coming to the assembly, I worked as a civil engineer, but when Michael was born, it changed my life. My passion changed and it led me here to the state assembly and to my role as chair of the committee on people with disabilities. Still helping people but in a different way, advocating for individuals with disabilities and their family, and that's exactly what we did here today. Michael and I today joined self advocates from across the state who came to the capital to share their stories and to advocate for support for individuals with developmental disabilities. Michael has many interests. He loves cooking. He even has his own YouTube channel where he's known as chef Michael. You can find him on YouTube. He enjoys doing puzzles, and he has probably the largest DVD collection I have ever seen. This year, he's also playing basketball with this Schenectady Patriots Special Olympics team, which we are all very proud of. More than anything, though, my son Michael reminds me every day why inclusion, dignity, and opportunity must guide the work that we do here in this chamber. Madam speaker, I'm incredibly proud of my son and I'm always pleased when he joins us here in the assembly chamber and I'm grateful that he's here with us today. If you would please welcome him and extend to him all the cordialities of the house.

[Acting Speaker (female presiding officer)]: On behalf of assembly member Santa Barbara, dad, the speaker and all members, welcome back Michael to our assembly chamber. It's so wonderful to see you again today. We hope you enjoy the time in our chamber again as you always do and congratulations and continued success, chef Michael. Thank you for joining us today, chef.

[Speaker Carl E. Heastie]: Miss Chantel Jackson, for the purposes of an introduction.

[Assemblymember Chantel Jackson]: Well, thank you, mister speaker. Guess what? We are back. We are bigger and better than ever because we are The Bronx. And I have a number of leaders here from The Bronx. I'm going to have them stand up but you may know them already mister speaker. We have our Bronx DA, we have our Bronx borough president, DA Darcel Clark, Bronx Borough President Vanessa Gibson. We also have Lisa Sorin from Bronx Chamber of Commerce, Robert Rodriguez from Chase. We have Sherlyn Santana from Bronx Community Bronx Community Manager at Chase. We have Jennifer Bernstein, also President and CEO of New York Botanical Garden. These are all things in The Bronx. Matt Eagle, president Langsam Properties Service Corp and Meg Ventorto, executive director of Woodlawn Care Services. And they're all here because today is Bronx day and we haven't had Bronx day in over ten years, but like I said, we are back, bigger, better than ever and I hope that they will receive Oh, I'm sorry and a bunch of other companies and organizations and corporations that make The Bronx who it really is. And I would love if you can give them all the cordiality of the floor, mister speaker.

[Speaker Carl E. Heastie]: Of course. Thank you, miss Jackson. And of course, I'm happy to see all of you from no offense to the other 61 counties in this great state, but y'all all know my heart is in The Bronx, and The Bronx will always be first amongst equals. And I'm so happy for my colleagues that have brought Bronx Day back and to all of the elected officials and the and the organizations that have come back. It was a beautiful luncheon today, and I'm looking forward to the reception. So, of course, you always have the privilege of the house. You're always welcome to come back. And I also want to add, as part of that, one of the awardees today who's getting the Changemaker Award is one of the greatest DJs in all of New York City, who happens to be a constituent, and you can hear him on Iree Jam, which is the number one Caribbean radio station. And if you come to my summer barbecue, any event, my my holiday party, he is always the DJ. So I wanna give a special shout out to DJ Maddow as well. So, again, thank you all for showing how much we all love The Bronx, and thank you for being here. Thank you. And I also wanna thank DJ Maddow because I can't ever get my chief of staff, Giovanni Brooks, to come up here, but she traveled up with with DJ Maddow. So

[Acting Speaker (female presiding officer)]: Miss Reyes for the purpose of an introduction.

[Assemblymember Karines Reyes]: Thank you madam speaker. Today it is my honor to welcome members of the National Black Nurses New York Chapter Association here. The New York black nurses association was founded in 1971 as a professional organization that brings together black nurses throughout New York state to support the health and well-being of their communities and the nursing profession. Through mentorship, scholarship and professional development, the New York Black Nurses Association helps guide and uplift current and future nurses while fostering leadership within the field. Beyond their work in hospitals, clinics and nursing education, the nurses are also deeply engaged in community, providing health education screenings, outreach programs and resources that help improve health outcomes across the state. With us today, we have representatives from the Greater New York Chapter, Rochester, Hudson Valley, Suffolk County Chapters as well. Doctor. Catherine Alicia Georges, past President of Greater New York City Chapter. The current President Betty Boyle Duke. Carolyn Austin Madison, second Vice President. Doctor. Theresa Lundy, current president, Yolanda Williams Lewis, current president, and Brianna Patterson, chair of health and policy from Rochester. Please, Madam Speaker, please extend all the cordialities of the house to them and welcome our distinguished guests to our chambers.

[Acting Speaker (female presiding officer)]: On behalf of miss Reyes, the speaker and all members, we welcome our members of the New York Black Nurses Association and extend to you the privileges of the floor. Hope you enjoy our proceedings today. Continued success and thank you so very much for all you do for being healthcare champions. Thank you for joining us today. Mister Ikis, for the purpose of an introduction.

[Assemblymember Chris Eachus]: Thank you, madam speaker, for allowing me to interrupt once again. I rise today in recognition of National Social Worker Month, a time when we honor the dedicated professionals who work every day to straighten strengthen our communities, support families, and advocate for those whose voices too often go unheard. If you stand. Today, I am proud to welcome the floor faculty and students from the social work program in Dominican University, New York. Joining us are program director, Melody Hippolyte and Professor Rubina Singh, along with a group of outstanding social work students who traveled to Albany to learn more about the legislative process and to advocate for policies to promote social justice and community well-being. These students represent the next generation of social workers, individuals who are not only learning in the classroom, but who are already engaging in advocacy and policy discussions. One of them happens to be an intern in my office currently that will shape stronger and more equitable communities across New York State. I would also like to take a moment to recognize Samantha Meehan, who has served as an intern in my district office over the past year. Samantha will soon graduate from Dominican University and join the social work profession. Her commitment to service and community has already made a meaningful impact in our office and I know she will continue to make a difference in the lives of many New Yorkers. Please join me in welcoming the Dominican University New York social work faculty and students to the state assembly and in recognizing the incredible work of social workers across our state during National Social Work Month. Thank you.

[Acting Speaker (female presiding officer)]: On behalf of mister Ikis, the speaker, and all members, we welcome our guests from Dominican University, the National Association of Social Workers on your lobby day today. We need you now more than ever, so we are so very glad to see you today, extending to you the privileges of the floor. Hoping you enjoy your proceedings today. We hope you had meaningful discussions on your visit today. Continued success to you. Thank you so very much for joining us today. Mister Slater, for the purpose of an introduction.

[Assemblymember Matt Slater]: Thank you, madam speaker. I'm thrilled to welcome and introduce the, Boys and Girls Club of Northern Westchester who is joining us today, up above. This is historic organization that has been serving our communities since 1939. And we have with us today Chris Marshall, who are our program directors, and we have as well 10 wonderful members, 10 youth of our community who are here to learn about state government, tour the capital, and see government in action. They are our future. It's fantastic to have them here. And I just request that you please welcome them and provide the cordialities of the floor.

[Acting Speaker (female presiding officer)]: On behalf of mister Slater, the speaker, all members, welcome our Northern Westchester Boys and Girls Club here today to our assembly chamber. I cannot see you up there, but we extend the privileges of the floor to you and hope you enjoy our proceeding today. I love love love the Boys and Girls Club and so very pleased that you all are participant members, our future leaders. It's just very exciting to see Boys and Girls Club members here today. So thank you up in our balcony today for joining us today. Resolutions, page three. Clerk will read.

[Assembly Reading Clerk]: Assembly number one zero two three, Ms. Barrett. Legislative resolution memorializing governor Kathy Hochul to proclaim March 2026 as school social week Work Week in the state of New York in conjunction with the observance of National School Social Work Week.

[Acting Speaker (female presiding officer)]: On the resolution, all those in favor signify by saying aye. Opposed, no. The resolution is adopted.

[Assembly Reading Clerk]: Assembly number one zero two four, mister Levine. Legislative resolution memorializing governor Kathy Hochul to proclaim March 2026 as reading month in the state of New York.

[Acting Speaker (female presiding officer)]: On the resolution, all those in favor signify by saying aye. Opposed, no. The resolution is adopted.

[Assembly Reading Clerk]: Assembly number one zero two five, mister Conrad, legislative resolution memorializing governor Kathy Hochul to proclaim March 2026 as Civic Learning Week in the state of New York.

[Acting Speaker (female presiding officer)]: On the resolution, all those in favor signify by saying aye. Opposed, no. The resolution is adopted.

[Assembly Reading Clerk]: Assembly number one zero two six, mister DeStefano, legislative resolution memorializing governor Kathy Hochul to proclaim March 2026 as Music in Our Schools Month.

[Acting Speaker (female presiding officer)]: Mr. DeStefano on the resolution.

[Assemblymember Joe DeStefano]: Thank you Madam Speaker for allowing me to speak on one of my favorite resolutions, music education in our schools. They play a vital role in the development of students and should remain an essential part of every school curriculum. Music is more than entertainment. It is a powerful educational tool that supports academic success, emotional growth and social development. First, music helps improve cognitive skills. Studies have shown that students who participate in music programs always perform better in subjects such as math, reading and science. Learning rhythm, patterns and timing strengthens brain functions related to problem solving and critical thinking. Playing an instrument or reading music also requires discipline, focus and practice. Skills that benefit students all areas of learning. Second, music allows students to express themselves creatively in all school environments where many subjects rely on memorization and testing. Music provides an outlet for imagination and personal expression. Whether through singing, playing an instrument, or composing, students can communicate emotions and ideas that may be difficult to express in words. Music also helps build teamwork and camaraderie in the community. Band, orchestra and choir programs teach students how to work together toward a common goal. Each musician plays a unique part, but success depends on listening to others and cooperating as a group. These experiences foster respect, responsibility and collaboration skills that students carry into adulthood. Finally, music enriches school culture, performances at concerts, assemblies and community events bring students, families and educators together. These moments create pride, school spirit and shared experiences that strengthen the school community. In conclusion, music education supports academic achievement, encourages creativity, builds teamwork, and enhances the overall school environment. By investing in music programs, schools help students grow not only as learners but also as well rounded individuals. Thank you, madam speaker.

[Acting Speaker (female presiding officer)]: Thank you. On the resolution, all those in favor signify by saying aye. Opposed, no. The resolution is adopted.

[Assembly Reading Clerk]: Assembly number one zero two seven, mister Durso, Legislative resolution memorializing governor Kathy Hochul to proclaim March 2026 as Youth Art Month in the state of New York.

[Acting Speaker (female presiding officer)]: On the resolution, all those in favor signify by saying aye. Aye. Opposed, no. The resolution is adopted. Page 13, calendar number 44. Clerk will read.

[Assembly Reading Clerk]: Assembly number one two four eight c, calendar one 44, miss Tapia. An act to amend the general business law.

[Acting Speaker (female presiding officer)]: Read the last section.

[Assembly Reading Clerk]: This act shall take effect on the ninetieth day.

[Acting Speaker (female presiding officer)]: The clerk will record the vote. Are there any other votes? Announce the results.

[Assembly Reading Clerk]: Ayes, one thirty nine. Nose, zero.

[Acting Speaker (female presiding officer)]: The bill is passed.

[Assembly Reading Clerk]: Assembly number 1296 b, calendar 47, miss Pollan, an act to amend the public health law.

[Acting Speaker (female presiding officer)]: On a motion by miss Pollan, the senate bill is before the house. The senate bill is advanced. Read the last section.

[Assembly Reading Clerk]: This act shall take effect on the thirtieth day.

[Acting Speaker (female presiding officer)]: The clerk will record the vote. Miss Walsh, to explain her vote.

[Assemblymember Mary Beth Walsh]: Thank you very much, madam speaker. So this third reading amendment makes changes to the bill in chief to expand the number of members on the rare disease advisory council, and that amendment provides appointments to the minority leaders of the legislature. So this this started back in 2020 when the legislature established the New York State Rare Disease Working Group, and now this bill would serve to make permanent the working group first established in 2020 by creating a standing council to continue the oversight awareness and advocacy work of the rare disease advisory working group and now that would be a council. So key change was allowing the minority leader of the assembly and minority leader of the senate to have appointments on this, which I think is really important. Sometimes we do have concerns when we don't get any appointments onto some of these boards and I'm very grateful to see that the sponsor amended her bill in order to provide those appointments. With that change, my previous reservations are gone. I will very happily support this establishment of the Rare Disease Advisory Council. And I'd also like to just note that the ALS Association supports this bill and that made me think of my good friend Andy Gilpin, former executive director of Captain CHS in my district who is battling with ALS right now. I think that working groups like this will really hopefully make a big difference. Advisory councils like this will make a big difference. So I'm very pleased to support it, I will be in the affirmative. Thank you very much, madam speaker.

[Acting Speaker (female presiding officer)]: Thank you. Miss Walsh in the affirmative. Are there any other votes? Announce the results.

[Assembly Reading Clerk]: Ayes, one thirty nine. Nose, zero. The bill is passed.

[Acting Speaker (female presiding officer)]: Page four, rules report 18. Clerk will read.

[Assembly Reading Clerk]: Assembly number nine five eleven, rules report 18, miss Glick. An act to amend the environmental conservation law.

[Acting Speaker (female presiding officer)]: On a motion by miss Glick, the senate bill is before the house. The senate bill is advanced. Miss Glick, an explanation has been requested.

[Assemblymember Deborah J. Glick]: Certainly. The chapter amendment just clarifies some of the limitations on oil and gas production leases on state forest, reef forestation areas, wildlife management areas and unique areas. And while it allows for the modification, transfer or assignment of existing oil and gas leases in these areas, it prohibits increasing the acreage or expanding the existing wells or drilling new wells. And the existing wells are allowed to continue until the lease expires and prohibits renewals in those areas, but allows the continuation and even modification and transfer but not expansion of the area or drilling new leases on that area.

[Acting Speaker (female presiding officer)]: Mr. Simpson.

[Assemblymember Matthew (Matt) Simpson]: Thank you, Madam Speaker. Would the sponsor yield?

[Acting Speaker (female presiding officer)]: Will the sponsor yield?

[Assemblymember Deborah J. Glick]: Absolutely.

[Acting Speaker (female presiding officer)]: The sponsor yields.

[Assemblymember Matthew (Matt) Simpson]: Thank you. And I think you just mentioned that this allows for modification. It doesn't allow or it does allow for modification of the existing leases.

[Assemblymember Deborah J. Glick]: It allows for modification transfer assignment while the leases are still current. It would not allow for it to go beyond the time of the lease.

[Assemblymember Matthew (Matt) Simpson]: Does would this allow for a transfer of ownership?

[Assemblymember Deborah J. Glick]: Well, I I think that's that is what it is intended. Yes. But the the transfer I

[Assemblymember Matthew (Matt) Simpson]: I'm unclear. Do you think it

[Assemblymember Deborah J. Glick]: Yes. It's the transfer but the transfer would not restart the lease term.

[Assemblymember Matthew (Matt) Simpson]: The lease terms. Okay. Do you know have you looked at the terms of the lease? How long the very varied wells

[Assembly Reading Clerk]: We didn't

[Assemblymember Deborah J. Glick]: we did not get a complete rundown of all of the leases. Some of the language also was intended to clarify that this would not prevent plugging of old lease old wells because that is a problem. But we in some instances, there are lots of abandoned wells and we don't have leases that relate to where they they are. So knowing the leases that exist, I'm sure there is that we don't have that number today for you. But there are many abandon wells all over the state and they are probably in the thousands. They are not active but they need to be plugged. So part of our language needed to be cleaned up so that there could continue to be activity that would be plugging those old wells.

[Assemblymember Matthew (Matt) Simpson]: Would this effect would this bill affect the ability for maybe down the road there's new technology, there's for some reason, I mean I don't know if you've seen Landman, but they've gone in on abandoned wells and gone in and hit it big. And is that would this bill allow for that or is this

[Assemblymember Charles D. Fall]: Not

[Assemblymember Deborah J. Glick]: the end of those areas. In If you as I'm sure you know, we're looking at 30 by 30 and these are state forest lands, wildlife management areas, areas of unique significance and currently, like reforestation areas are defined as lands devoted to watershed protection, the production of timber and other forest products and for recreation and similar activities. So it's not necessarily consistent with that to have oil and gas production which requires more infrastructure than would be consistent with these uses.

[Assemblymember Matthew (Matt) Simpson]: Okay. So do you know when the last request for a modification or expansion of one of these wells were?

[Assemblymember Deborah J. Glick]: Not off the top of my head.

[Assemblymember Matthew (Matt) Simpson]: Do you know of anything recent or?

[Assemblymember Deborah J. Glick]: I don't have that in front of me.

[Assemblymember Matthew (Matt) Simpson]: Okay. Do you know if there's any applications pending?

[Assemblymember Deborah J. Glick]: I'm sorry, could you repeat that?

[Assemblymember Matthew (Matt) Simpson]: Do you know if there's any applications pending right now currently? No.

[Assemblymember Deborah J. Glick]: There are no and the lease terms are ten year terms. So currently, we don't have any applications.

[Assemblymember Matthew (Matt) Simpson]: They're all ten year lease terms?

[Assemblymember Deborah J. Glick]: Yes, but in the past there were renewals and this would at that at the end of the lease term in these areas, not everywhere but in these specific areas, once the lease term is expired, then there would not be a renewal allowed.

[Assemblymember Matthew (Matt) Simpson]: Is the is can the same thing be acquired through current regulation from DEC or agency guidance? In other words, DEC has the ability to issue a permit or not issue a permit. I believe there's been legislation in the past that has banned certain activities, fracking being one of them. So essentially, my question is, is this already banned under the No. Prior legislation that was passed?

[Assemblymember Deborah J. Glick]: No. It's it's not there are no there's no statute that bans it. We are doing that in this bill. There is no, to my understanding, any restriction that would prevent DEC from in these specific areas. Remember, this is just within reforestation, state forest or wildlife management areas. It's those specific areas. DEC is still open to making leases in other areas.

[Assemblymember Matthew (Matt) Simpson]: Okay. So in these leases, do you know if there was language that was contained within those leases that required remediation?

[Assemblymember Deborah J. Glick]: I think all. Don't all? I'm more familiar with the absolute mining regulations that do require it. Apparently, yes, in these there are reclamation and probably one would think that there are also plugging of wells. It's just that lots of wells were abandoned long before there were regulations requiring reclamation.

[Assemblymember Matthew (Matt) Simpson]: So I want to ask you about the plugging. There are wells that are not plugged that are just sitting there not being used or

[Assemblymember Deborah J. Glick]: Oh yes. Oh yes. It is a decided problem. There we had some federal dollars and these are these are wells from decades ago. So the records are a little unclear and they are are in different types of topography. So there is no specific amount that oh it only costs x amount to plug a well. It requires finding them and then the typography might make it more expensive in one area from another. And so it's an expensive operation and DEC has been working on this and we did have from the last administration some resources so that it wasn't coming out of state dollars. It is And they're finding it basically because people say, oh you know, there's some wells back out there. Which is not necessarily the best way to do it but with old records or non existent very old records, it's a big job and there are a lot of them.

[Assemblymember Matthew (Matt) Simpson]: So And

[Assemblymember Deborah J. Glick]: some and let me just clarify. Some may actually be emitting methane. Some may just be emitting brine. But if they are near someone's not far from a well that somebody has drilled for their water and there's brine seeping out of an old well, that's not a good thing for those folks.

[Assemblymember Matthew (Matt) Simpson]: This is, just so I'm clear, this bill is doing two things. It's effectively ending any future use of wells that are producing gas and oil, gas or oil, and also attempting to identify uncapped, unplugged?

[Assemblymember Deborah J. Glick]: It's not it's not to identify.

[Unidentified Member (likely Minority, ranking on Banks)]: It's

[Assemblymember Deborah J. Glick]: to it was cleaning up language that would not that might have prevented inadvertently, might have prevented the capping of wells. So that is it's not identifying them. That is not the subject of this. It was just cleaning up language to ensure that we did not inadvertently make it more complicated to cap wells.

[Assemblymember Matthew (Matt) Simpson]: So I could reasonably assume that within ten years or less that there will be no more oil or gas extraction from any wells in these areas identified in this bill?

[Assemblymember Deborah J. Glick]: Yeah, I would say that's fair.

[Assemblymember Matthew (Matt) Simpson]: Okay, thank you. On the bill?

[Acting Speaker (female presiding officer)]: On the bill.

[Assemblymember Matthew (Matt) Simpson]: Madam speaker, we're in the midst of an energy crisis in New York. Oh, no. And, yes, it began before the Iran conflict. Residents are seeing utility bills skyrocket into thousands of dollars for single family homes. I spoke to a business just outside of my district that got a $15,000 increase in their energy bill from the month prior to this month. Our governor has spoken about embracing what many of us in the minority conference have been advocating for an all in above approach towards achieving our climate goals. Goals born both on environmental stewardship and what we were told since the beginning passage of the CLCPA in the name of affordability. I don' think we' seen affordability at all. This bill typifies the contradictory approach this state has had with its conflicting policy goals. We have massive proven reserves of natural gas beneath our feet in the southern tier that is dispatchable, would provide jobs, generate wealth, and energy security in New York, while enabling New York residents lower energy costs. In Pennsylvania, just across the border, which, by the way, we purchase gas and electric from, they're seeing a 40 less cost in their energy. Instead, we're going to contradict these goals with renewable energy citing on our farms, our fields, ecologically sensitive areas, ignoring conservation goals, increasing costs, and more importantly, ignoring communities who do not want battery storage, industrial solar arrays, and windmills in their communities. This seemingly benign bill is one more roadblock that restricts opportunities and pushes more agenda policies on our hurting residents. Thank you, madam speaker.

[Acting Speaker (female presiding officer)]: Thank you. Mr. R. Brown.

[Assemblymember Ari Brown]: Thank you. Thank you, madam speaker. Will the sponsor yield?

[Acting Speaker (female presiding officer)]: Will the sponsor yield? Yes. The sponsor yields.

[Assemblymember Ari Brown]: Thank you. Good afternoon. I think we heard from my colleague can all agree there's an affordability issue specifically when it comes to energy in the state. So I ask, if a gas well falls in a forest and no one's allowed to drill it, does it still reduce heating costs?

[Assemblymember Deborah J. Glick]: The As near as we could tell, there's less than 1% of production that comes out of all of these wells as best as we could gather from DEC. So this is not a significant contributor to the gas production and it it should be clear to everyone that renewable energy is actually now costing less than fossil fuels and creating less pollution. So this is a not just a minor bill, but a truly benign bill in that very, very little production comes out of these existing sites and we are making a decision that our state forests, our wildlife management areas which include, you know, watershed protection areas should not be the site of industrial oil and gas production. We're not looking at restricting opportunity in other places. This is just those types of areas that the state is trying to preserve for the purposes I previously stated.

[Assemblymember Ari Brown]: Thank you, ma'am sponsor. I I was trying to read the bill and try to see what was allowed and not allowed. So let me just try to get this straight. We're allowed to plant new windmills on these state lands but not drill for new gas wells. So so does that mean this energy policy now depends on how the wind blows?

[Assemblymember Deborah J. Glick]: I would say that in some of these instances there may be an edge. I mean wind has to be, you're generally on a ridge. You're not sticking a windmill in the middle of trees because that doesn't make any sense. So some of that's a little bit of a specious argument.

[Assemblymember Ari Brown]: Thank you, Madam Sponsor. Madam Speaker, on the bill, please.

[Acting Speaker (female presiding officer)]: On the bill.

[Assemblymember Ari Brown]: So the way I see it, this bill is another example of Albany potentially saying no to the very resources that keep our home warm and our economy running. We seem to think that if we ban drilling in New York, the fuel will magically appear from somewhere else cleaner, cheaper, and guilt free. And if in fact a gas well does fall in the forest and no one's allowed to drill it, you know what? It still could have lowered the heating costs of hardworking American families. New York should be leading with balance, not bans. Conservation should be smart stewardship, not shutting the doors to American energy. Conservation shouldn't mean confiscation of opportunity. Madam speaker, New York can protect its forests and fuel its future. We don't have to pretend it's one or the other. And for that reason, I will be voting negative on this bill. Thank you.

[Acting Speaker (female presiding officer)]: Thank you. Mister Bologna?

[Unidentified Member (likely Minority, ranking on Banks)]: Thank you, madam speaker speaker, would the sponsor please yield for

[Acting Speaker (female presiding officer)]: Will the sponsor yield? Yes. Sponsor yields.

[Unidentified Member (likely Minority, ranking on Banks)]: Thank you, miss Glick. Out of curiosity, are you able to then guarantee that ORETZ is not citing wind and solar on any of the aforementioned in your legislation?

[Assemblymember Deborah J. Glick]: I can't guarantee a whole lot more than what comes out of my mouth. I believe that as I said before, that it's possible that there is a ridge line that is within the state forest land that is an appropriate location because it is the ridge line where there is wind and where there are no trees. So I don't want to categorically say that there would be no renewable energy on a ridge line and that that land is not state forest land. So I can't guarantee that but I would say that it does not make sense for most of these areas which are largely forested or reforested to have either oil and gas or renewables because of the infrastructure needed to support either. But it is possible that there is a ridge line that is state forest land that is appropriate for

[Unidentified Member (likely Minority, ranking on Banks)]: for windmills. So in the interest of that goal, you know, in the interest of transparency, would you agree that it's important that ORES is forthcoming and transparent in second. Obviously citing and telling us where they are putting renewables? And I understand that that's not necessarily part of the actual chapter that we're discussing right now, but I think it's important because as we're talking about energy as a whole, I do think that the public, you know, as we're doing here with with gas and oil, know specifically where new renewables are going and if they are in contrary to any of the environmental protections that we in this building claim to be trying to save.

[Assemblymember Deborah J. Glick]: I agree that Auris, which has to go through a citing process, should be more responsive.

[Unidentified Member (likely Minority, ranking on Banks)]: Good. Well, thank you very much for for the answering the questions. Madam Speaker, on the bill.

[Acting Speaker (female presiding officer)]: Thank you. On the bill.

[Unidentified Member (likely Minority, ranking on Banks)]: You know, for the better part of a decade, as a staffer for a long time, I have this body systematically reduce our energy supply throughout the entire state. And and then on the exact same token, we have increased our electric demand when 50% of our electricity still comes from natural gas. People, when you decrease supply and increase demand, prices skyrocket, and that's what we're experiencing right now. That's not politics. That's basic economics. So I would urge everyone as we continue to actually heed the words of the governor and actually truly embrace in all of the above platform. Because the only thing that we have done in the past decade is systematically reduce and eliminate natural gas from our energy portfolio and chip away at it piece by piece by piece while giving organization or agencies like ORES carte blanche to cite things wherever they want. So with that, I will be voting in the negative. Thank you very much, madam speaker.

[Acting Speaker (female presiding officer)]: Thank you. Ms. Glick? On the bill.

[Assemblymember Deborah J. Glick]: Just to close, I want to be clear that the areas that are covered by the bill are state forest lands and our forests which contain and sequester carbon are important and yet under threat from climate change, stressing a lot of different species throughout the state. And that there are, because of climate change, more invasives. So the state forest lands which are really important to produce oxygen at the same time that they are sequestering carbon, we should be protecting them and that's the purpose of this. Wildlife management areas and reforestation areas. Those areas are about protecting watershed. There is you know, we are blessed in that we have a lot of fresh water which most of the other states envy. And yet, we should be protecting those resources from what is a minimal, a de minimis amount of oil and gas production. To argue that somehow ending these leases over the next number of years is in any way a part of undermining our all of the above agenda is a) ridiculous and b) I would hope that we would not see people continue to oppose the expansion of renewable energy which is cheaper, produces less emissions, and is safe. The argument it's not always reliable because it rains sometimes or it's the wind isn't blowing. So now the argument is we can't have any battery storage which would answer the reliability issue and that as as if gas never catches on fire or blows up a house, where battery storage has very, very defined protections for the public and for those facilities. So I hope that people understand that this is truly just a minor fix and a minor bill that protects key areas of the state and does not undermine energy production in any significant way.

[Acting Speaker (female presiding officer)]: Thank you. Read the last section.

[Assembly Reading Clerk]: This act shall take effect immediately.

[Acting Speaker (female presiding officer)]: A party vote has been requested. Ms. Walsh.

[Assemblymember Mary Beth Walsh]: Thank you, Madam Speaker. The minority conference will generally speaking be in the negative on this piece of legislation. But if there are members who wish to vote yes, now would be the time to do so at their seats. Thank you.

[Acting Speaker (female presiding officer)]: Thank you, mister Fall.

[Assemblymember Charles D. Fall]: Thank you, madam speaker. The majority conference will be supporting this piece of legislation. For those that would like to vote in a different direction, they could do so at their desk.

[Acting Speaker (female presiding officer)]: Thank you. The clerk will record the vote. Miss Walsh, to explain her vote.

[Assemblymember Mary Beth Walsh]: Thank you, madam speaker. So I appreciate the dialogue and the debate that occurred. I just wanna make a couple of points for the benefit of of us all. Last year when we took up the bill in chief, we had bipartisan opposition. We had 48 no votes. This was a chapter amendment that was insisted upon by the governor as a condition to her signing this piece of legislation. So I do take it I I did think it was important to note that while the governor has signaled that she's looking for an all of the above approach, this chapter amendment does the opposite. It it does not. It it curtails any development of a certain kind of energy that so it's not it's not looking at an all of the above approach. It's actually limiting production. Now we know that fracking is already banned in New York and some industry folks have said that even if it wasn't, industry would not lease in these particular areas. But still just based on just the principle of it, I think that to basically allow an organization like ORES to trample on local control and to put solar and wind in sensitive areas if it's their idea, but then at the same token on this chapter amendment further restricts where other kinds of energy development can occur. Just doesn't make sense to me. I mean if you just look at the Adirondack Park, it's not just a state forest, it's a 6,000,000 acre patchwork of public and private land. And I can't say that in that entire area of over 6,000,000 acres you couldn't responsibly have some kind of development occurring someplace at some point in the future. So I I just can't support this and I really think that the governor needs to kind of get her story straight if she's for it or against it. I'll be voting no.

[Acting Speaker (female presiding officer)]: Thank you. Miss Walsh in the negative. Mister Novakoff? To explain his vote.

[Assemblymember Michael Novakhov]: Thank you, madam speaker, to explain my vote. First of all, I I can't support something that makes the lives of New Yorkers less affordable. New York is facing a growing energy crisis. Too many New Yorkers are paying hundreds, sometimes thousands of dollars per month just to keep the lights on and their homes warm. Natural gas remains the cleanest and most reliable large scale energy option available to our state today. It produces far fewer emissions than coal and oil, and it can power our homes and businesses at a much more affordable rate. While we continue developing renewable energy, you know, no one is against it. Natural gas gas must remain part of the solution to keep energy reliable and affordable for New Yorkers. Once again, I cannot support something that makes the lives of New Yorkers less affordable. Thank you madam speaker.

[Acting Speaker (female presiding officer)]: Mister Novakoff and the negative. Mister Chang, let's explain his vote.

[Assemblymember Lester Chang]: Thank you madam speaker. Like to explain my vote as a negative. You never know new technologies might mature that might make it even more efficient. Even though fracking has been in the technology for decades, but even before prior to that, a useless well became very very useful. And and you never know that we have geothermal energy that might be in those those leased land that we can utilize that. Until we get commercially grade fusion energy, we must maintain all sources of alternate energy, all sources to keep our energy affordable. And my constituents are complaining about why our electric rates is up. And I also question about renewable energies as being affordable because there's a lot of tax credit, lot of energy renewable energy company always asked for the state for some subsidies. So, really, I think there's a lot of accounting tricks that what accounts for affordable. Gas and and fossil fuel is a mature industry over a 100 years old. They know what the pricing would be, and they know how how to get that. So I really question about the what's affordability on renewable energy? Let the market forces dictate. Let the market force understand where we want and where we need our energy. And that explained my vote as no. Thank you very much, madam speaker.

[Acting Speaker (female presiding officer)]: Thank you. Mister Chang in the negative. Mister Chang, explain his vote.

[Assemblymember Chris Tague]: Thank you, madam speaker. I just cannot believe the hypocritical nature of this bill. While we are using up hundreds of thousands of productive, tillable, prime farmland in Upstate New York, people in this body supported that. Today, we're taking up a bill not to use property for natural gas. I I just do not get it. I just do not get it. Well, people at home have went from a $150 electric bills up to $500 in the last several months because of the policies that have come out of this chamber, that chamber, and the governor's office, our people are struggling. It's really a shame when we have these resources right here at home in New York State to take care of the people that we represent and make their lives more affordable, and we do this. Again, I vote no.

[Acting Speaker (female presiding officer)]: Mister Tague in the negative. Are there any other votes? Announce the results.

[Assembly Reading Clerk]: Ayes, 94. Noes, 49.

[Acting Speaker (female presiding officer)]: The bill is passed. Page four, rules report 29. Clerk will read.

[Assembly Reading Clerk]: Assembly number 946 0, rules report 29. Miss Rosenthal, an act to amend the general business law.

[Acting Speaker (female presiding officer)]: On a motion by miss Rosenthal, the senate bill is before the house. The senate bill is advanced. Miss Rosenthal, an explanation has been requested.

[Assemblymember Linda B. Rosenthal]: This bill is a chapter amendment to chapter seven ten of the laws of 2025 which establishes procedures for victims of coerced debt to dispute such coerced debt with creditors and hold their abusers liable for debts incurred.

[Acting Speaker (female presiding officer)]: Mister Bologna?

[Unidentified Member (likely Minority, ranking on Banks)]: Thank you, madam speaker. Will the sponsor yield?

[Acting Speaker (female presiding officer)]: Will the sponsor yield? Yes. Sponsor yields.

[Unidentified Member (likely Minority, ranking on Banks)]: Thank you, miss Rosenthal. So before I I begin, I do just wanna make something very clear about my intent here. As ranking member on banks, I'm raising these questions solely to seek clarity for creditors and ensure that practical implementation of this legislation is fully understood. Nothing in my question and or remarks should be interpreted interpreted as diminishing the seriousness of domestic violence and abuse in any way, shape, or form or victims. So I just wanna get that out of the way right off the bat. So as far as the chapter is concerned, just so we're clear about the amended bill before us, when a debtor claims that a debt was incurred through coercion within one of the relationships defined in the bill, the creditor must stop collecting review of that claim. Is that correct?

[Assemblymember Linda B. Rosenthal]: Well, there's a whole process, yes.

[Unidentified Member (likely Minority, ranking on Banks)]: Okay. But for the purposes of this, during that review process, the creditor must pause activity on that debt, correct?

[Assemblymember Linda B. Rosenthal]: Well, within ten days of receiving notice from the debtor.

[Unidentified Member (likely Minority, ranking on Banks)]: Okay, so yes.

[Assemblymember Linda B. Rosenthal]: Well, that just gave you more detail.

[Unidentified Member (likely Minority, ranking on Banks)]: Okay. So, in that one form of documentation allowed under the bill is a sworn statement from a qualified third party. Is that is that correct?

[Assemblymember Linda B. Rosenthal]: Yes.

[Unidentified Member (likely Minority, ranking on Banks)]: Okay. And just so I understand, is that individual who's the qualified third party, do they is there a requirement that they have to have been present for the coerced stat? No. Okay. So it's just a written statement? It could be a written statement or a hearsay?

[Assemblymember Chantel Jackson]: The third party has to

[Assembly Reading Clerk]: be acting in that profession.

[Assemblymember Linda B. Rosenthal]: Yeah. It's it's not based on some casual conversation that someone had with their neighbor who happens to be a lawyer. It had to have taken place with the the third party acting in their professional capacity.

[Unidentified Member (likely Minority, ranking on Banks)]: Okay. But again, to clarify, they did not have to be physically present for the coercion? No. Okay. And if I'm reading this the bill correctly, during the creditors review of the claim, the bill restricts the creditor from contacting the individual accused of the coerced debt. Is that accurate?

[Assemblymember Linda B. Rosenthal]: Yes. That is.

[Unidentified Member (likely Minority, ranking on Banks)]: Okay. So now we have the creditor that has to make a determination, of course, that without necessarily having been there or talking to someone who's been there. In addition, which now they can't talk to the people that they're investigating.

[Assemblymember Linda B. Rosenthal]: Well, generally, takes place between the the the victim and the abuser. So

[Unidentified Member (likely Minority, ranking on Banks)]: Oh, okay. So, the creditor has to make a determination based on based on legally defined relationships from witness transactions, and they're prohibited from contacting people that are accused of coercing the debt. Yeah. So how can a creditor be reliably expected to make a determination of whether that debt was actually coerced?

[Assemblymember Linda B. Rosenthal]: Well, the the the victim presents documentation and evidence of the debt having been coursed.

[Unidentified Member (likely Minority, ranking on Banks)]: Okay. So, respectfully, we're asking a private creditor to make determinations that would normally be made by a court or a social service agency in pretty much any other circumstance. Right?

[Assemblymember Linda B. Rosenthal]: It could be.

[Unidentified Member (likely Minority, ranking on Banks)]: I mean, do you see any flaw in that?

[Assemblymember Linda B. Rosenthal]: Do I see any what?

[Unidentified Member (likely Minority, ranking on Banks)]: Flaw in that thinking?

[Assemblymember Linda B. Rosenthal]: This this bill is intended to provide a pathway where none existed before for victims of coerced debt.

[Unidentified Member (likely Minority, ranking on Banks)]: And I'm not necessarily refuting the the pathway that you're trying to create. I'm trying to point out you know, this is a chapter amendment and these things were not necessarily amended in this chapter. So from a practicality standpoint, I'm just trying to gain clarity on what we're actually

[Assemblymember Linda B. Rosenthal]: trying I to you're the basic premise of the bill and the amendment.

[Unidentified Member (likely Minority, ranking on Banks)]: I would disagree.

[Assemblymember Linda B. Rosenthal]: However, there are already interactions that take place between creditors who they think owe the money.

[Unidentified Member (likely Minority, ranking on Banks)]: Okay. So, the creditor spends collection upon receiving documentation, but they can't fully investigate the claim, are there any safeguards that exist to prevent the misuse by individuals seeking to avoid legitimate debts?

[Assemblymember Linda B. Rosenthal]: Okay. So, I have not heard of any cases where someone who is a victim of domestic violence for example or someone who has been trafficked or a senior who has been taken advantage of by a caregiver making up so they don't have to pay something? Making things up. That doesn't happen.

[Unidentified Member (likely Minority, ranking on Banks)]: I'm sorry, couldn't hear you. Did you say that never happened?

[Assemblymember Linda B. Rosenthal]: I say that doesn't happen that survivors of these kinds of situations make things up. However, there are severe penalties for perjury built into this chapter amendment.

[Unidentified Member (likely Minority, ranking on Banks)]: Alright, so aside from general perjury laws, the bill itself does not create any type of new laws or consequences for somebody who would fabricate a claim, correct? Outside of general perjury?

[Assemblymember Linda B. Rosenthal]: Well, a general perjury a serious claim. Secondly, the creditor may decide based on what they've seen submitted that it's not a coerced debt.

[Assemblymember Mary Beth Walsh]: They have that option as well.

[Unidentified Member (likely Minority, ranking on Banks)]: I'm still focusing on a the potential of fraudulent claims and what is what is being done in this legislation to prevent that because I'm not an attorney, but from my understanding, perjury charges in a civil case are very rare. So, again, I ask, there just to clarify, there's nothing in this legislation outside of the reliance on perjury to prevent dishonest behavior. Correct? There's no extra punishment, no other crimes?

[Assemblymember Linda B. Rosenthal]: The same as for any other fraudulent claim. And and my premise here is that the survivor of abuse is not going to put in the time and the effort and dealing with what their abuser did to them to get out of a debt. That's my premise that they will not be lying and cheating on this, but there is the the perjury hanging over their head.

[Unidentified Member (likely Minority, ranking on Banks)]: To be very clear, I am not talking about people who are the victims of domestic violence or coerced death. I am talking about people who are not victims of any of those crimes or any of those situations

[Assemblymember Linda B. Rosenthal]: Mhmm.

[Unidentified Member (likely Minority, ranking on Banks)]: Who would use now this mechanism to get out of a perfectly real and, you know, a legitimate debt that they owe. So there's no scenario in which you could see that someone would ever abuse this?

[Assemblymember Linda B. Rosenthal]: Well, as I said, there are internal processes by which the creditor examines the submission by the debtor. And if they decide that they are not valid, then they can say, sorry, you owe the money.

[Unidentified Member (likely Minority, ranking on Banks)]: Okay. So with that premise then, under section six zero four dash e e of the bill, the individual who allegedly caused the coerced debt is held financially responsible for that debt. Is that accurate? Alright. So that means that a creditor and possibly the debtor, if they've already made the payments, could file a lawsuit against an individual to recover that money assuming it's within the statute of limitations. Is that also an accurate statement?

[Assemblymember Linda B. Rosenthal]: Yes.

[Unidentified Member (likely Minority, ranking on Banks)]: Okay. So, to put this in real life terms, if I'm a lender and I make a cost benefit analysis to determine that it's cheaper for me to just eat the cost of a debt that I lent out because someone may not be able to pay it back. And my other option is going to court, filing litigation, court fees, legal fees. Is it not possible that as a lender, my response to this piece of legislation could be tightening my credit standards and limiting my willingness to to make loans or making it more difficult to get loans.

[Assemblymember Linda B. Rosenthal]: That's I mean that that is not part of this bill and it's not part of this chapter amendment.

[Unidentified Member (likely Minority, ranking on Banks)]: Oh, I I guess what what I'm talking about is the implement the implement implications of the chapter amendment. Is it not possible to conceive that lenders based on this in the scenario that I just laid out would would not make credit harder to come by?

[Assemblymember Linda B. Rosenthal]: I have no idea. You can make up any kind of hypothetical and then theorize the consequences.

[Unidentified Member (likely Minority, ranking on Banks)]: Miss miss Roland, all due respect, this isn't a hypothetical. I mean, I I

[Assemblymember Linda B. Rosenthal]: this this chapter amendment

[Acting Speaker (female presiding officer)]: We are asking and answering questions, please. Okay? Thank you.

[Assemblymember Linda B. Rosenthal]: The chapter amendment does not address the business practices of a creditor. But this is similar to protections that other states have implemented. So the, you know, the lending community is similar and this is not unfamiliar to them.

[Unidentified Member (likely Minority, ranking on Banks)]: Again, respectfully, is it not our job in this building to figure out what the implications of the legislation that we pass are going to be? Is it not our responsibility to ask those questions and how it's going to impact the market? Is that not literally what we're doing here?

[Assemblymember Linda B. Rosenthal]: I already answered.

[Unidentified Member (likely Minority, ranking on Banks)]: Okay. Well, I have a couple more. Again, I thank you for bearing with me. I'm hoping you might be able to clarify two provisions that appear very confusing in this. So, at the top of page six, section six zero four dash b b.

[Assemblymember Linda B. Rosenthal]: Yes.

[Unidentified Member (likely Minority, ranking on Banks)]: Subsection four, it says that submitting a request for consideration to the creditor is not required before bringing legal action. But then, at the bottom of page six, top of page seven, section six zero four c c Mhmm. It says that lawsuits cannot be stated unless the debtor has submitted a request for reconsideration.

[Acting Speaker (female presiding officer)]: I don't know if

[Unidentified Member (likely Minority, ranking on Banks)]: These two statements literally say opposite things.

[Assemblymember Linda B. Rosenthal]: Mhmm. Okay. So there have been discussions about that and it's something that we'll be talking about addressing after this chapter amendment.

[Unidentified Member (likely Minority, ranking on Banks)]: So you're suggesting making a chapter to the chapter?

[Assemblymember Linda B. Rosenthal]: No. It would be a new bill.

[Unidentified Member (likely Minority, ranking on Banks)]: A new bill. But you're agreeing that

[Assemblymember Linda B. Rosenthal]: It's inconsistent.

[Unidentified Member (likely Minority, ranking on Banks)]: These two things say exactly the opposite. Right?

[Assemblymember Linda B. Rosenthal]: It's inconsistent.

[Unidentified Member (likely Minority, ranking on Banks)]: Yeah. It's inconsistent. Okay. So if it's inconsistent here and we've made acknowledgments and maybe staff has made acknowledgments, maybe folks who this is going to impact, understand that there is literally opposing language in the actual bill. How is a lender supposed to make a determination of what their responsibility is? I mean, the the text is wrong.

[Assemblymember Linda B. Rosenthal]: Then Yeah. As I said, we're we're going to address that. And yeah.

[Unidentified Member (likely Minority, ranking on Banks)]: Miss Rosenthal, in all due respect, I I'm not in a position here to be voting on pieces of legislation that are literally contradicting each other. I I I can't in good conscience end this debate without asking why are why are we considering voting on a piece of legislation that we know is wrong without any type of amenity or amendment to it going forward? There's no guarantee of an amendment. Nothing is guaranteed. So why would I sit here and let my colleagues vote on something that is knowingly wrong?

[Assemblymember Linda B. Rosenthal]: I don't know. You voted for it in committee.

[Unidentified Member (likely Minority, ranking on Banks)]: Because I thought that it was very important to have this discussion right now to bring to light some of the issues in this bill. Because it's very important that our constituents know and have a visible record of what is happening. That is why.

[Assemblymember Linda B. Rosenthal]: I think you're losing sight of what this chapter amendment does. I already said it's inconsistent. We will fix it and that remains my answer.

[Unidentified Member (likely Minority, ranking on Banks)]: And I am not disagreeing with you on the basis of the chapter amendment. What I am disagreeing with you on is the fact that this this was an oversight that was not fixed, and yet we are still here expected to vote on it.

[Assemblymember Linda B. Rosenthal]: Okay.

[Unidentified Member (likely Minority, ranking on Banks)]: Fair enough. Madam thank you very much, miss Rosenthal. Madam speaker, on the bill?

[Acting Speaker (female presiding officer)]: On the bill.

[Unidentified Member (likely Minority, ranking on Banks)]: Financial coercion and exploitation is a very serious issue, and victims absolutely deserve protection. However, this bill places creditors in a very difficult position. A, it's wrong. But b, it asks lenders to determine whether coercion occurred within complex family and intimate relationships defined across multiple statues. We are asking lenders and creditors to essentially be a court system and a social service system. At the same time, creditors have to rely on documentation that may not relate to the transaction itself and are restricted from having the ability to investigate those claims. These determinations are typically made by courts and social service professionals, not by creditors. And for that reason, and again it's wrong, I will be voting in the negative. Thank you.

[Acting Speaker (female presiding officer)]: Thank you. Miss Walsh?

[Assemblymember Mary Beth Walsh]: Thank you, madam speaker. Will the sponsor yield, please?

[Acting Speaker (female presiding officer)]: Will the sponsor yield? Yes. The sponsor yields.

[Assemblymember Mary Beth Walsh]: Thank you so much. So I just wanna just run through I feel like it helps me to understand the bill a little bit better by running through an actual concrete example. So let's say that there I guess let me start before I get into that. I just want to clarify that the domestic violence that is involved could be the result of a number of different kinds of relationships, correct? So it could be child parent, it could be elderly person caregiver.

[Assemblymember Linda B. Rosenthal]: Yes, as I think I said earlier in response that it could be a domestic violence between a partner, between two partners but it could also be trafficking, could also be a parent child.

[Assemblymember Mary Beth Walsh]: Yep. And the and the gender is irrelevant too. Correct. Yeah. Okay. So let's just say that there's an individual who goes to a member of their clergy and sits down with clergy and says I was coerced into applying for a credit card.

[Assemblymember Linda B. Rosenthal]: Right.

[Assemblymember Mary Beth Walsh]: And I was coerced into using that credit card and I racked up a lot of charges on that credit card

[Assemblymember Linda B. Rosenthal]: Yes.

[Assemblymember Mary Beth Walsh]: But I wouldn't have done it had I not been coerced into doing it. Okay. Okay? And then at that point

[Assemblymember Linda B. Rosenthal]: Nothing happened.

[Assemblymember Mary Beth Walsh]: The the that person who is going to try to make a case that that the debt was coerced and that member of the clergy would then do some kind of a sworn affidavit saying and what would that affidavit say? Like, what would be the proof in that affidavit?

[Assemblymember Linda B. Rosenthal]: It I mean, we were not we don't we don't specify the language, but basically affirming that the victim had told them in their official capacity that they were coerced. And so it's a statement basically saying that.

[Assemblymember Mary Beth Walsh]: And and under the bill, it's the only have to there's a list of things that can be produced in support Yes. Of the idea that it's coerced. Only one is required. Correct. So that that affidavit by that clergy member could be the only piece of evidence supported to document the coercive debt.

[Assemblymember Linda B. Rosenthal]: Correct. But the debtor also has to provide a statement under penalty of perjury that the debt was coerced.

[Assemblymember Mary Beth Walsh]: Okay. So let me just direct you because I do wanna clear this up for myself. On page four of the bill, starting at around, line nine. Okay. So I see what you're saying. So a sworn or notarized statement by you, the alleged debtor

[Assemblymember Linda B. Rosenthal]: Yes.

[Assemblymember Mary Beth Walsh]: Under penalty of perjury. Yes. That's required. And then and then it says provide adequate documentation of coerced debt, around line 13. One provide one of the following documents, but you may provide more. And the one I'm looking at is a notarized statement, line 21, from a qualified third party that you reported the coerced debt to.

[Assemblymember Linda B. Rosenthal]: Yes.

[Assemblymember Mary Beth Walsh]: So those are the two affidavits that you're referring to. Yes. That would be sufficient to document the coerced or potentially sufficient to support the coerced debt. Okay. But isn't that clergy member just use following up on the example, isn't that clergy member just reporting hearsay? Aren't they just saying the debtor told me that this was coerced debt? Aren't isn't that person just reporting hearsay from the from the alled from the debtor? No.

[Assemblymember Linda B. Rosenthal]: We have to hold certain people like clergy and attorneys I mean, and there are examples here of social workers, attorneys, doctors, nurses, therapists, employees from government, non profit agencies that work with survivors of violence, members of the clergy, law enforcement officers. These are people who occupy important positions in society. Sure. And so it's really their reputation on the line as well.

[Assemblymember Mary Beth Walsh]: But and and I'm not impugning any of their reputation at all but all they you've already established from prior debate that the individual who's providing that affidavit didn't have to be there and actually be a witness to the coercion. All they have to be a witness to is that the debtor went to them and said this debt was coerced. That they're just reporting what they've been told, which is what hearsay is. Is it isn't it being is it how is it being offered? Is it being offered for the truth that this was actually coerced debt? That I mean, that's the definition of hearsay. Why are we even allowing that to bolster a claim by a debtor that this was coerced debt?

[Assemblymember Linda B. Rosenthal]: You know part of the problem is that victims of domestic violence, they are battered physically, emotionally and often the survivors don't feel like they can go to the police. They feel like the only person they can confide in is a member of the clergy. And that's why we added we chose them to be part of the list because they are trusted members of society.

[Assemblymember Mary Beth Walsh]: And and I don't have any question that the individuals that you named are all important people in the community who could provide wonderful support to a person who was a victim of human trafficking or domestic violence. I don't question that in the least. Okay. What I'm questioning though is why we would allow or actually require a a statement, a hearsay statement from one of those individuals to bolster what the person is alleging as the debtor? Why why do we even we wouldn't allow that in court. We would we wouldn't we wouldn't allow that. So why do we why do we allow that here?

[Assemblymember Linda B. Rosenthal]: As I said before, we were looking for people that a domestic violence survivor would have confided in. And we're not assuming that it's hearsay. We're saying here's a path for a domestic violence survivor who's survived many things including being forced to take on death that is not theirs. It would be a notarized statement and as I said earlier, there's still a process. The creditor can still say wait a minute, I don't believe you. So that's always an option after they do their investigation.

[Assemblymember Mary Beth Walsh]: Okay. And so let's jump to that then. Let's say that that is the creditor's decision.

[Assemblymember Linda B. Rosenthal]: Yes.

[Assemblymember Mary Beth Walsh]: That this we don't find this credible. This doesn't need a preponderance of the evidence for us. Yes. So they deny it. Then what's the next step in the process then?

[Assemblymember Linda B. Rosenthal]: So what the creditor can do within five days of completing their investigation, they can cease collections or they can recommence collections. And if they decide to recommence, then the alleged debtor has an appeal, one appeal, and the debtor may submit that request to reconsider and provide additional documentation.

[Assemblymember Mary Beth Walsh]: And is that appeal to the creditor? Yes. Is it to Yes. Okay. So it's not to like a court or anything No. Okay. So they can they can ask for reconsideration?

[Assemblymember Linda B. Rosenthal]: Yes.

[Assemblymember Mary Beth Walsh]: And and then if it's still found to be not credible by the or doesn't meet the standard of proof by the creditor, then the creditor can just continue to go ahead and collect the

[Assemblymember Linda B. Rosenthal]: debt? Yes.

[Assemblymember Mary Beth Walsh]: Okay. Is there anything else after that that can happen or anything beyond that or does it just end The

[Assemblymember Linda B. Rosenthal]: debtor themselves could go to court and try to get a judgment against their abuser, the person who coerced their debt.

[Assemblymember Mary Beth Walsh]: Can the can the the debtor go into court against the the Mhmm. The creditor and say they made a big mistake?

[Assemblymember Linda B. Rosenthal]: They didn't Yes. To they could to get a declaration from from the court that the debt was coerced.

[Assemblymember Mary Beth Walsh]: That it was coerced and then if that happens

[Assemblymember Linda B. Rosenthal]: Yeah.

[Assemblymember Mary Beth Walsh]: Then does the debtor have to pay attorney's fees to the to the alleged debtor?

[Assemblymember Linda B. Rosenthal]: I believe so. The debtor may be entitled to attorney's fees. Okay. But is

[Assemblymember Mary Beth Walsh]: it written in That the bill is something the court would Oh, I apologize. I couldn't hear you.

[Assemblymember Linda B. Rosenthal]: Sorry. That that would be something the court would decide whether to award attorney's

[Assemblymember Mary Beth Walsh]: fees. I did see something in here about attorney's fees and actual damages and things like that. That's why I was asking.

[Assemblymember Linda B. Rosenthal]: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But the court would determine that.

[Assemblymember Mary Beth Walsh]: Right. Right. It's not automatic. I think it says

[Assemblymember Linda B. Rosenthal]: No. No. It's

[Assemblymember Mary Beth Walsh]: shall have a cause of action against the creditor to recover statutory damages of $1,000 actual damages if any and the costs and reasonable attorney's fees incurred in bringing such action?

[Assemblymember Linda B. Rosenthal]: Yeah.

[Assemblymember Mary Beth Walsh]: Okay. So they do get attorney's fees, it's just they're going to be set by the court whatever that Correct. I Usually the attorneys will submit a bill and say this is what I spent on the matter and then the court will decide Right. How

[Assemblymember Linda B. Rosenthal]: And in most cases the survivor is receiving the services from a social service agency for example. It's probably not some high powered white shoe law firm but you know an agency that whose mission is to help survivors of depression.

[Assemblymember Mary Beth Walsh]: Right, great, yep, understand. So is there anywhere in the bill anything that says that the creditor gets their attorney's fees back if this whole thing unfolds and and they're found not to have been having done anything wrong. And I would think that a say it's a bank or a credit card company or I don't know. I don't know who it would be. But they they have to just pay for their own attorney's fees all along here.

[Assemblymember Linda B. Rosenthal]: They're when it's against like the abuser but they don't get from it when it's Okay. If it's if they are going after the abuser, then they get attorney's fees. Not if they're going after survivor, the alleged debtor.

[Assemblymember Mary Beth Walsh]: Okay. So could you say that again? I'm so sorry.

[Assemblymember Linda B. Rosenthal]: If they're going after the abuser, the coercer, then they may be entitled to attorney's fees. If they're going after the alleged debtor or the survivor, then they're not.

[Assemblymember Mary Beth Walsh]: Then there's then okay. So I wasn't talking about going after the abuser. I was using an example where it was between the lender, you know

[Assemblymember Linda B. Rosenthal]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Assemblymember Mary Beth Walsh]: The creditor or the alleged debtor.

[Assemblymember Linda B. Rosenthal]: Uh-huh, no, so no.

[Assemblymember Mary Beth Walsh]: Okay, okay. Alright. Do you have any idea I was just curious about this. How many people this could impact? I mean do you have any data or anything that shows how much coerced debt you think is out there?

[Assemblymember Linda B. Rosenthal]: You know it's really hard to pin that down since they haven't had a pathway. So there have been you know I'm sure survivors speak to a creditor and say listen, you know such agreements are made all the time. So, but we don't have data on

[Assemblymember Mary Beth Walsh]: that. Okay.

[Assemblymember Linda B. Rosenthal]: So, once this goes into effect, then we can start the process of collecting data on that.

[Assemblymember Mary Beth Walsh]: Very good.

[Assemblymember Linda B. Rosenthal]: But we do know that economic abuse and coerced debt are serious issues within the DV community and you hear more and more about seniors being taken advantage of and you just sadly hear more of this stuff. So I think it will help a wide range of victims.

[Assemblymember Mary Beth Walsh]: Well thank you very much for answering my questions. Thank Madam Speaker, very briefly on the bill.

[Acting Speaker (female presiding officer)]: On the bill.

[Assemblymember Mary Beth Walsh]: So I think I definitely think that this bill comes from a place of good intention. I really do. I think some of the saddest calls that I've gotten in my office are from elderly folks that I represent who have been taken advantage of by family members or by caregivers, people who are vulnerable anyway. I have the greatest amount of sympathy for them and I do think that this bill comes from that place. My problem I guess is really it was with the original bill and it's and and also this significant very significant rewrite in this chapter amendment because I think as was stated in the previous portion of this debate, there are some problems with the way that the bill is currently written. And I really I don't I well, I do credit and feel enormous sympathy for those who have truly been taken advantage of or have been abused. I do think that the sponsor statement that nobody would make this up, you know, and I'm paraphrasing, but the gist was that nobody, you know, nobody would lie about this. I just don't agree with that. I think that this could be something that could be taken advantage of. So I think that the bill needs some work. I do think, like I said, that it comes from a good place, but I can't support it in its current form. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

[Acting Speaker (female presiding officer)]: Thank you. Mr. Chang?

[Assemblymember Lester Chang]: Thank you. Will the sponsor yield, please?

[Acting Speaker (female presiding officer)]: Will the sponsor yield? Yes. Sponsor yield.

[Assemblymember Lester Chang]: Yes. Thank you. I just want to clarify the the debtor and creditor have to be in residence or location in New York state?

[Assemblymember Linda B. Rosenthal]: The bill doesn't specify. If

[Assemblymember Lester Chang]: we're only applying for state law, what happen if the creditor is across a different state? Would this have an application for this coerced debt? I

[Assemblymember Linda B. Rosenthal]: mean, if they're doing business in New York, this would apply to them.

[Assemblymember Lester Chang]: Okay. Now, what happened if the creditor sold that paper to another party, let's say to collection agency or or some other third party in a different state? Would this be applied then?

[Assemblymember Linda B. Rosenthal]: If if they're doing business in New York State, yes.

[Assemblymember Lester Chang]: If they're not? Then

[Assemblymember Linda B. Rosenthal]: they're not.

[Assemblymember Lester Chang]: Okay. So for this I mean I appreciate what you write the bill, you know especially for domestic violence and I have heart for that and we need to protect the innocent and be

[Assemblymember Linda B. Rosenthal]: in

[Assemblymember Lester Chang]: coerced. But we need better language for this because debt can be easily sold to commercial widely and freely. They don't need to hold this. What happens if they go out to a different state and sold it to another collector so they could ignore what coerced debt?

[Assemblymember Linda B. Rosenthal]: No, no. I mean they're just transferring the problem to someone else but it still pertains to business in New York. Only if it's New York. The election agencies almost always negotiate a deal. So I think they are used to that kind of interaction.

[Assemblymember Lester Chang]: But you say only if they do business in New York State, they can grow different states and sold the paper. And how would that solve this problem to the debtor? How does debtor have some protection if it's coerced if you have that language only for business in New York State?

[Assemblymember Linda B. Rosenthal]: Well here it says here on page five, if the creditor is also a debt collector or debt collection agency, notify they have to notify the original creditor that it has ceased collection activities because the debt was found to be coerced at. So they have an obligation to tell the agency that they're selling the debt to that they have this business here in New York.

[Assemblymember Lester Chang]: It's not see, you're based on debt collection. Alright? They doing collection for for the creditor. We're talking about selling the paper. Selling the paper to a new ownership.

[Assemblymember Linda B. Rosenthal]: Yes.

[Assemblymember Lester Chang]: Then how does the debtor able to communicate to the to the new creditor and the new creditor may be a different state? And does it have any business in New York?

[Assemblymember Linda B. Rosenthal]: Communicate with them because many of them you communicate by email for example.

[Assemblymember Lester Chang]: Or Does that happen?

[Assemblymember Linda B. Rosenthal]: You call. I I think this is all a hypothetical. I I said if it's doing if they're doing business here in New York, it applies to them. I think that's a simple but that's the answer.

[Assemblymember Lester Chang]: But that's only for doing business in New York for a person for for the creditor. So there's no protection if if all that transaction is done outside of New York or outside the country.

[Assemblymember Linda B. Rosenthal]: I think I've answered this and I think as I said earlier hypotheticals wander into territory that we are not even contemplating. The bill doesn't contemplate hypotheticals. I think you're making it a little more complicated than it actually is.

[Assemblymember Lester Chang]: Okay. Well, thank you very much. Thank you. On the bill?

[Acting Speaker (female presiding officer)]: On the bill.

[Assemblymember Lester Chang]: At a current form, it's flawed, but thank the sponsor is trying to do protecting the the debtor itself for coerced debt. But it needs some work on the bill as my fellow colleague, Ms. Walsh, say that it needs some work. And I will vote no on this current form because it creates too much conflict. If the bill does pass. It creates too much conflict for lawyers and court to figure it out what should be a clear path. Thank you very much, madam speaker.

[Acting Speaker (female presiding officer)]: Read the last section.

[Assembly Reading Clerk]: This act shall take effect immediately.

[Acting Speaker (female presiding officer)]: A party vote has been requested. Ms. Walsh.

[Assemblymember Mary Beth Walsh]: Thank you Madam Speaker. The minority conference will generally be in the negative on this piece of legislation. However, there may be some exceptions and those individuals, those people can certainly vote yes at their seats at this time. Thank you.

[Acting Speaker (female presiding officer)]: Thank you, Mr. Fall.

[Assemblymember Charles D. Fall]: Thank you Madam Speaker. The majority conference will be in the affirmative on this piece of legislation. For those that would like to vote differently, they can do so at their best.

[Acting Speaker (female presiding officer)]: Thank you. The clerk will record the vote. Ms. Rosenthal to explain her vote.

[Assemblymember Linda B. Rosenthal]: Thank you, madam speaker. To explain my vote, I want to ensure that the purpose of the bill, the purpose of the chapter amendment is to help a victim of coerced debt have a path to challenging the burdensome debt that they were forced to incur by their abuser. That sort of got muddy during the debate. Creditors have access to many resources as they did during this chapter amendment. It is the abused, the survivors who need assistance. And their lives are ruined often. The last thing that they are thinking of is how to fool a creditor. They're actually trying to rebuild their lives and get out from under this kind of economic abuse which their abuser foists upon them to control them and keep them stuck and stuck to them forever. And so this provides a path for them. The creditor has enough opportunity to decide, I don't believe you, but the victim also has the opportunity to provide documentation that says, This was forced upon me. So, for that reason, I vote in the affirmative.

[Acting Speaker (female presiding officer)]: Ms. Rosenthal and the affirmative. Are there any other votes? Announce the results.

[Assembly Reading Clerk]: Ayes, 96. No. It's 47.

[Acting Speaker (female presiding officer)]: The bill is passed. Mister Fall?

[Assemblymember Charles D. Fall]: Madam Speaker, do we have further housekeeping or resolutions?

[Acting Speaker (female presiding officer)]: We do have a piece of housekeeping on a motion by Ms. Werner, page 38, calendar number two forty, bill number 80 nine-eleven-3A. The amendments are received and adopted. We have a privilege resolution by Mr. Meeks, Clerk will read.

[Assembly Reading Clerk]: Assembly number ten thirty six, Mr. Meeks. Legislative resolution recognizing Tuesday, 03/10/2026 as Harriet Tubman Day.

[Acting Speaker (female presiding officer)]: Mister Meeks on the resolution.

[Assemblymember Demond Meeks]: Thank you, madam speaker, for an opportunity to speak on this resolution. Whereas Harriet Ross Tubman was an American heroine and patriot who faithfully served her country and liberated her people, her tireless efforts to attain freedom for those enslaved, and her dedication to stop the inhuman inhuman practice of slavery should be recognized and celebrated. It is only fitting to pay tribute to an American heroine who sacrificed everything for the well-being of people and her country. And whereas in June 2003, legislation to make March 10 a day of commemoration was signed into law. March 10 recognizes the lifetime achievements and the historical legacy established by Harriet Tubman and her many accomplishments throughout the state of New York. And whereas because of her color and her status as a slave, Harriet Tubman was denied the opportunity to learn and to read or write. Nevertheless, she was able to rise above the limitations which were placed on her as a slave and as a black woman. And whereas in the mid eighteen fifties, Harriet Tubman made the acquaintance of United States senator, secretary of state, and former New York governor, governor William h Seward and his wife Francis in Auburn, New York in 1857. The sewage provided a home for her in Auburn, which she sold which they sold to her later. And whereas, this home will become the new base of operations for the underground railroad. When the civil war began, Harriet Tubman was able to liberate hundreds of her people to freedom. Through this efficient network, she was proud to claim that she never ran her train off the track and never lost a passenger. Whereas, during the civil war, Harriet Tubman served in the union army in South Carolina, first as a cook and a nurse and later as a scout for raiding parties and a spy behind confederate lines. After her service in the union army, she returned to Auburn, New York where she lived the remaining years of her life. In nineteen o three, she transferred ownership of her property to the AME Zion Church. And whereas Harriet Tubman's death on 03/10/1913, the church developed and managed her home and adjacent adjacent property in order to sustain her memory. She was buried in the Fort Hills Cemetery in Auburn, New York with full military honors. Currently, the Harriet Tubman home and property are registered as a national historic landmark in Auburn, and the site is also part of the National Park Service Freedom Trail. Thank you, madam speaker, for this opportunity to speak to our great ancestor Harriet Tubman, the great work that she's done to free her people and to serve The United States Of America. Thank you.

[Acting Speaker (female presiding officer)]: Thank you. On the resolution, all those in favor signify by saying aye. Aye. Opposed, no. The resolution is adopted. We have a number of resolutions before the house. Without objection, these resolutions will be taken up together. On the resolutions, all those in favor signify by saying aye. Aye. Opposed, no. The resolutions are adopted. Mister Fall.

[Assemblymember Charles D. Fall]: I now move that the assembly stand adjourned and that we will reconvene at eleven a. M. Wednesday, March 11, tomorrow being a session day.

[Acting Speaker (female presiding officer)]: On mister Falls' motion, the house stands adjourned.