New York State SmartTranscripts:

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: I'm my name is Gary Paretlo, chairman of the New York State Assembly Ways and Means Committee. Today, we're going to convene the third in a series of 14 hearings conducted by the the joint fiscal committees of the ledge on the legislature to consider the governor's proposals for fiscal year twenty six-twenty seven. These hearings are conducted pursuant to New York State constitutional law and the legislative law. Today, the Assembly Ways and Means Committee, together with the Senate Finance Committee, which is headed by Senator Liz Krueger, will hear testimony regarding the governor's budget proposal as it pertains to elementary and secondary education. I'll introduce the members of the majority, and I'll pass it over to my senate colleague to introduce the members of her house. With us, we have the education chair, Michael Benedetto, the library's chair, Assemblyman Carol, and we have assembly members Bronson, Buttenschon, De Los Santos, Hyndman I'm sorry, Hyndman. I'm guided. She always corrects me. Jackson, Pheffer Amato, Levenburg, and Lunsford. Senator Krueger?

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, Senate Finance Committee]: Thank you. Oh, that sweet spot isn't cooperating. There we go. Thank you. Hi, everyone. So I am joined by Senator Shelley Maher, our chair of the Education Committee Senator John Liu, our chair of the New York City Education Committee Senator Robert Jackson, Senator Guinardis, Senator Bino, Senator Martinez. And I'm sure we will be joined by others during the day, and we will both try to announce people when they get here for the first time. Thank you.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Thank you. You could introduce your members.

[Assemblymember Ed Ra, Ranking Member (Assembly minority designee)]: Good morning. We're joined by Assemblyman Doug Smith, our ranking member on education Assemblyman Chudzinski, the ranker on libraries Assemblyman Chang.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: RANKER you.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, Senate Finance Committee]: RANKER Senator Tom O'Mara, and he will introduce his members.

[Senator Tom O’Mara, Senate Republican Ranker]: RANKER Thank you. Good morning. On our side, we're joined by Senator Jim Todisco, our ranking member on the Education Committee, and Senator Bill Weber.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, Senate Finance Committee]: Great. And also Senator Cordell Clears just walked in.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Now for the rules that erode. Time limits. Before I even go into time limits, is there anyone sitting on this dais or that table that cannot see a clock? All right. That means everyone has vision of a clock. You'll see three lights. When the orange light comes on, it means you have thirty seconds. Please adhere to the time limits. Governmental witnesses have ten minutes for their presentation. Nongovernmental witnesses are allotted three minutes each. The chairs of the committees relevant to each governmental witness will be allocated ten minutes, with a second round of three minutes. Ranking members of these committees will be allotted five minutes for questions. All other members of the relevant committees will be alighted three minutes each. All witnesses, written testimony has been submitted to the legislature in advance. And accordingly, witnesses are asked not to read their prepared remarks, but to summarize. To all legislators, please be advised that myself or Senator Krueger, if you wish to ask please advise myself or Senator Krueger if you wish to question a witness or panel of witnesses. Following the conclusion of the opening remarks of each witness panel, the speakers list will be closed.

[Hearing Clerk/Staff (unidentified)]: All participants, both witnesses and legislators,

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: are asked to locate the time clocks, which I did already, and be mindful of it. Please be considerate and respect the clock so that all participants are afforded the opportunity to be heard. Please note that the allotted time includes both questions and responses. Members are therefore respectfully requested not to begin a new question without sufficient remaining time to permit the witness time to respond. Given the length of our hearings, these time limits will be strictly enforced. I would also like to note that the witness scheduled to testify later witnesses which scheduled to testify later today who have not checked in are asked to do so at the top of the stairs. At this time, I call our first witness, Commissioner Betty Rosa from the New York State Education Department. Ms. Rosa.

[Hearing Clerk/Staff (unidentified)]: Morning.

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: Good morning, chairs Krueger, Prattlow, mayor, Lou, and Benedetto, and, of course, members of the legislature. Thank you for the opportunity to testify today on behalf of New York State Education Department and the Board of Regents regarding the twenty twenty six-twenty seven executive budget and the region's legislative priorities. I'm doctor Betty Rosa, commissioner of education and president of the University of the State of New York. I am joined today by members of our department's leadership team, Senior Deputy Commissioner, Doctor. Jeffrey Madison Chief Financial Officer, Doctor. Christina Coughlin Deputy Commissioner, Adult Career has the longest title, and Continuing Education Services Office of Special Education, Salon Mayes Ruff, P-twelve Deputy Commissioner Angelique Dingle Johnson, and Deputy Commissioner and Counsel Daniel Morton Bentley. Before I begin, I want to acknowledge Chancellor Lester Young and the members of the Board of Regents for their steadfast commitment to New York State students, families, and educators. For more than a century, New York State Education Department has served as the stewards of one of the most ambitious public education system in the nation. Our work spans standards, assessment, accountability, educator development, student protections, workforce preparation, and the stewardship of New York's cultural treasures through the state museum, library, and archives. As we approach our nation's two hundred and fiftieth anniversary, we understand that civic readiness and shared history are central to our mission. New York has long been a catalyst for expanding democracy from Seneca Falls to labor protections to civil rights. Education is how our generation, our students learn the history, but they learn the history not just the not just the history but the untold stories and builds upon that. That is why New York inspires the next phase of our graduation measure work is so important. New York inspires is a blueprint to ensure students graduate, prepare for college, careers, and civic life and civic participation. It maintains rigor, state accountability while expanding meaningful ways for students to demonstrate their learning in multiple ways. While it seems aspirational, it is something that we really have to commit to. As early childhood expansion, which we've all been hearing about moves forward, we strongly urge continued partnership as we have done cross agency work to ensure that the system supporting this work is coherent, standardization is important, involvement of community and delivery systems and models that we know are critical. We appreciate and are grateful for several executive investments that move New York forward, including early childhood proposals, support for strengthening statewide longitudinal data system which will allow us to cross agency and really work together on many of the priorities. It is important for us to also look at our office of cultural education as we continue to look at civic and also funding for accelerated teacher preparation and different pathways. However, even with these important investments, and I have to stop and say we are extremely grateful for the issue of looking at childcare, looking at obviously from childcare to UPK to the standardization of building a strong foundation for our future students before they even get into our elementary process and so forth and so on. However, even with these important investments, several regions' priorities that are essential to advancing equity, opportunity, and fully realizing the promise of New York Inspires remain unfunded. First, we asked for a 5,100,000.0 for New York inspires implementation. It is essential for all of us to have guidance, professional learning, technical assistance, consistent systems across the board. We're also requesting 10,100,000 to achieve career and technical education parity for non BOCES districts, which includes the big five. Because access to high quality career connected learning should never depend on a student's ZIP code. We also urge you to help us align funding for the region's foundation aid proposal as its targeted formula enhancements, particularly for English language learners. We did ask for growth from point 53 to point six zero. And also homelessness. Those two areas are essential, not only in terms of the blueprint for New York inspires, but essential to support, those two populations. We're also asking state aid continues to align with districts' legal obligation to provide free appropriate public education through age 22 for students with disabilities, which we know is an estimated sixty five to seventy five million state impact. But the district simply cannot absorb this on their own. And while we truly appreciate the partial funding for teachorg, we are requesting the full 1,300,000.0 for to continue to support us in terms of drawing and creating opportunity for prospective educators, most of them people of color in New York State teacher pipeline. Finally, we urge full consideration of the region's capital proposal, including the urgent need for a new St. Regis Mohawk Nation school. While the executive budget takes meaningful steps, additional investment is still needed to ensure students learn in safe, modern facilities and honor indigenous communities. Members of the legislature, the regents and the state education department are guided by one principle, all means all. That is the promise of New York Inspires and the promise that I know New Yorkers expect from all of us. Thank you for your time and for your continued commitment and support to New York State students and communities. We absolutely today look forward to your key questions and look forward to a continuation during this time of any concerns that you have that we, in our customer service approach, can support you with to respond to your communities on behalf of our children. Thank you so much.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Well, thank you, commissioner, and three minutes on the schedule. I'm impressed.

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: Last year, I gave you a minute and a half this year. I promised to.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: A Selman Benedetto for ten minutes.

[Assemblymember Michael R. Benedetto, Chair, Assembly Education Committee]: Ten minutes. Good. Always a pleasure to see you, Commissioner, and thank you for being here today. So you are in charge of preparations for the two and fiftieth anniversary of our country. It's a wonderful thing. Any barriers in front of you on that?

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: Sure. First of all, there's two of us. We have parks and our I am extremely proud and I know, Senator Mayer, you were intimately involved in making sure that, you and and the legislators, would have the educational presence in this endeavor. So we have been actively working, meeting constantly, meeting at different institutions, engaging the public, having our different commission members create advocacy. Basically, the $2,500,000 each of the parks received 2,500,000.0 We received 2,500,000.0 We really distributed most of that funding to to make sure that our local representation really drew upon many of the issues that we are focusing on, which, you know, from the untold story to, looking at the historical issues in our own backyard and also that our schools participate individually, each classroom, each student, each classroom, each school, and each district through our quilt, both virtual and also composite of a quilt that we will eventually display at the museum. And this will have obviously, we know that there's a history in quilting and quilts in this country, particularly in New York State. And so we we are, asking our schools to really create their local imprint, but also be a part of our statewide quilt that would will will be displayed.

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: Jeff, anything?

[Assemblymember Michael R. Benedetto, Chair, Assembly Education Committee]: What I'm interested in, the untold stories that you tell, okay? The stories that history really doesn't talk about most of the time. Okay? And quite often, it's stories that might involve the Native Americans. And, did you say that? Problems that might have occurred there or women in history. Are you getting any pushback on any of these things?

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: Actually, started way back this work really started in 2019 where people really started to pull together brochures and research and will make it available to the legislators. We have an incredible, powerful brochure that really outlines specific issues. We've worked with Ken Burns in terms of, you know, the episodes which have been phenomenal. I will say to this audience that I'm usually not starstruck, but I was when I met him. And and we we actually were in Saratoga. We then were here at the Palace where we had an incredible conversation with him and the community. So we've been, going around the entire state really engaging and making sure that not only our students, our communities are participating, in, you know, in the work that we're doing. But to your point, the the many untold untold stories in terms of the American revolution is is really who were the participants? You know, the African American story, even with our four hundred years, is very much a part of this work. Many of the issues that we confronted in terms of, you know, our nation and the the fact that, you know, while many people think about the participation, New York was one of the states that really truly played a major role. And so we want our children to know this, our communities to celebrate the fact that we are making sure that we highlight those particular stories that many times, as you stated, are invisible.

[Assemblymember Michael R. Benedetto, Chair, Assembly Education Committee]: Thank you for that. Talk to me about the state museum. That is underneath part of your charge. Okay? But we've had problems with the state museum over the years. Can you quickly, in a nutshell, tell us maybe some of the problems that you have ahead of you in that area?

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: Well, I'm gonna start from, I'd like to say that in the last year, with a lot of support, you know, we have the the museum from 02/1978, we we had some financial issue because of sweeps. And so there was a roughly about a $20,000,000 sweep, which really put us in in a very challenging situation. I think that both legislators, the governor's office, and others have really advanced an investment not only in the museum in terms of its purpose, but the museum in terms of its message and its its how it becomes part of the fabric of learning opportunities for young children in terms of we are advancing a kid zone on the 4th Floor, and how it becomes part of the conversation for professional development for teachers, how it celebrates all the different aspects of our culture, history. We just had the Holocaust this week. So we hired a brand new, absolutely a very experienced director who's been on the job less than seven, eight months. And she has restored the gift shop. Obviously, opportunities to also, as we ventured into this, for some of you who did not have the opportunity to see Barbie, we had a major display there. So the so the museum has come alive. We are obviously very grateful for the 12,000,000 that we are putting into the museum. We're grateful for the fact that the staff has really developed a five year plan, a blueprint in terms of exhibits. And so there's been a tremendous amount of work. While we've had tremendous criticism and we accept the fact that sometimes criticism allows us to take stock and look at the work that we're doing and advance opportunities for correcting those issues. And so I think our leadership in our new director, our leadership, Mike Mastriani has taken over as deputy, and our leadership in in terms of the work that's being done by the staff has been phenomenal. I think people who have really made the connections recently with the museum have seen a place that really has not only come alive and been responsive to the community, but other needs in terms of looking at our other museums throughout the state and making those those connections. So we are extremely proud of the work that we are currently doing with the governor's office on new members on a task force. And so we are looking forward to truly seeing it for what it is, which is a jewel for state.

[Assemblymember Michael R. Benedetto, Chair, Assembly Education Committee]: I agree with you. And and to tell you the truth, you'd say you're proud of this and that. I have to say, I'm proud of that we have you as the commissioner and all you have done over the course of the years. You have led our educational system here in the state of New York in a fine direction with things like New York inspires and you, together with the regents, doing that. We hope you continue to do that. And hopefully, we'll provide you with the right resources. Thank you for coming here today.

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: Thank you.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Mr. Chairman? Madam senator.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, Senate Finance Committee]: Thanks. Excuse me. Thank you. Good morning. Good morning. I'm gonna start with Senator Maher, our chair of education.

[Senator Shelley B. Mayer, Chair, Senate Education Committee]: Thank you. Thank you, chair. And good morning all, and thank you for your very close cooperation with my office and the Senate generally and all of our members with all the specific questions we have about our districts and the policy. You have recommended additional weighting in the foundation aid formula for homeless and foster care youth and for those who are English language learners. Do you know, percentage wise, how many students, not only in the city of New York, of which there are a large number, but statewide are in the bucket of homeless and foster care? And also, could you explain why you believe additional waiting is necessary?

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: Sure. So for the specific, I am going to turn to Christina in a minute. But I just want to say that having been, and I know that Assembly Chair Benedetto knows this, my district, District 8, Banana Kelly, White Plains, that whole area had probably many, many of the this is very dear to me because of the homelessness we had in that area. But we're seeing this throughout the state. It's not just in terms of New York City, but many of our, particularly our big five where we have tremendous, you know, we're we're accounting for 43% of of the students in this state. And in our big big five and big five plus because we've got some other areas as you know. Have been looking at, you know, while we have the McKinsey McKinney Vento, that doesn't give us enough funding to really truly do the kind of work both from making sure attendance issues, having students feel a sense of belonging. You know, sometimes those students travel from one place to another. So we do have a tremendous need to support. We had, intimate conversations about with the regions as to what two areas where we know we still have a great deal of work and particularly with homelessness was one area, and the second area was with our English language learners.

[Senator Shelley B. Mayer, Chair, Senate Education Committee]: Yeah, I'm sorry. Maybe you know, Christine, the percentage.

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: Sure.

[Senator Shelley B. Mayer, Chair, Senate Education Committee]: If you know.

[Dr. Christina Coughlin, Chief Financial Officer, NYSED]: I'm going to have to get back to you on that one, Senator. I'm Okay. May I add one thing? Yeah, We did look at data around the distribution of students who were experiencing homelessness. And one thing that surprised me was that the percentages looked very similar in our urban districts and our rural districts.

[Senator Shelley B. Mayer, Chair, Senate Education Committee]: And

[Dr. Christina Coughlin, Chief Financial Officer, NYSED]: so it struck us as a problem that was spread around the state in a way that not everything is. And that was something that really resonated with the regions that we were working with. We'll get to the numbers.

[Senator Shelley B. Mayer, Chair, Senate Education Committee]: And with English language learners, again, not an urban issue anymore. It is a statewide issue in districts throughout Do the you have numbers on the percentage of English language learners and why you believe additional waiting is necessary in the formula?

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: Why there's what?

[Senator Shelley B. Mayer, Chair, Senate Education Committee]: Why is additional waiting necessary Well, in the

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: receive obviously, from the federal government, we do receive support for the students. Many of our students going through, obviously, you know, the political crisis that many of our English language learners and when we think about English language learners, we're talking about, you know, the top eight to 12 languages and communities, whether it's a Haitian community, other types of communities that are making transitions and their children are acquiring English as a second language, right? So going through that process, it is extremely important that we provide additional resources to support that acquisition. And in some cases, we even have the combination of English acquisition and special education. Those two elements come together and create complexity of trying to really work with you know, we find that in our conversations and path forward where we we want to make sure that we have the research, the support for not only the students who are acquiring the English, but also some of the situations where some of these students are coming from places that schooling was not required. So just even going through something like that really forces us to think about the specifics of how do we, in our formula, foundation aid, how do we do the weighting for those two populations?

[Senator Shelley B. Mayer, Chair, Senate Education Committee]: I think it'd be helpful, at some point, you could share the data on percentage statewide, not just in the big five, not just in the City Of New York.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Doesn't look at it.

[Senator Shelley B. Mayer, Chair, Senate Education Committee]: A full day pre K for four year olds outside the City Of New York. I appreciate your testimony, supportive of the governor's really important additional contribution to the reimbursement. Do you know the number of districts for which we provided funding that have chosen or have been unable or for whatever reason do not currently provide full day pre K even though we funded at least some reimbursement Yeah. For

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: actually do have a number.

[Senator Shelley B. Mayer, Chair, Senate Education Committee]: If you can get back to me if

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: you don't mind. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, that's the

[Senator Cordell Cleare]: MARY Okay.

[Senator Shelley B. Mayer, Chair, Senate Education Committee]: The next question is about immigration policies within our schools. And I know that you, the governor's office, and the attorney general have issued guidance on two occasions to schools with respect to their policies. But you know I'm quite concerned that there's not uniformity among districts in urban, rural, and suburban districts around the state. Would you be supportive of legislation

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: required schools to have a uniform policy that did not allow

[Senator Shelley B. Mayer, Chair, Senate Education Committee]: immigration officials in unless they had a judicial, as opposed to an administrative warrant, or a subpoena signed by a judge?

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Be

[Senator Shelley B. Mayer, Chair, Senate Education Committee]: are you supportive of stricter rules with respect to staff and students to ensure that schools are as safe as possible for our immigrant community?

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: Absolutely.

[Senator Shelley B. Mayer, Chair, Senate Education Committee]: Okay, next question is about Seal of Civic Readiness and biliteracy. You did not mention them. I think they're both important developments for expanding civic participation by our high school students and biliteracy. What are the numbers of schools that are participating in the Seal of Civic Readiness and Biliteracy, if you have that?

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: Yeah, we actually have a chart. I think last year we had about, I can tell you the number of students. We had over 10,000 students last year 12,000 actually last year. The year before, it was 10,000.

[Senator Shelley B. Mayer, Chair, Senate Education Committee]: Which one?

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: For Seal of Biliteracy. That has been growing tremendously. And basically, as I said, from the previous year to last year, it was from 10,000 to 12,000 students. And we have a chart that we can share with you. And we'll break it down into the specific districts as well. But we had had tremendous same thing. We'll make sure you have that.

[Senator Shelley B. Mayer, Chair, Senate Education Committee]: Next question, since I'm trying to go quickly, is on free and reduced lunch. Last year, we really made a significant change providing free breakfast and lunch to every student. But notwithstanding that, there are districts that are not participating. Do you know how many districts are not participating in the universal?

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: Yeah. In the well, we the the one thing I do know is that the growth was I know with the with the lunch was about from district wide was about 5.3% growth from originally, and I think in the breakfast it was like 3.3%. Again, we do have a chart which we will share with you as well.

[Senator Shelley B. Mayer, Chair, Senate Education Committee]: It's very disappointing that after having achieved something so substantive for every child, regardless of district, regardless of income, that some schools have not elected to participate. And so we are interested, I think, in working on that going further. Lastly, on the non public security money, which we allocated to the department and we fought very hard to get more in the threats of anti Semitism and attacks on our Muslim schools as well, What is the status of getting that money out the door? I know there have been issues about getting it out the door. Where are we on that?

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: Yeah. So we you know, we've because of our staff situation, I know we we had a conversation. We had a meeting on this. We've been able to pull other staff to work on this. I think we are at 83% at this point in terms of now that 83% includes still some pending issues because we still have questions from some of the districts that are waiting for funds. But in total, was, you know, it was, at this point, as of, I think we've been keeping counts on it is 83%.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: We've been breaking down. You, Commissioner. Salman Minra.

[Assemblymember Ed Ra, Ranking Member (Assembly minority designee)]: J. Thank you, Chair. Good morning, Commissioner.

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: J. Good morning. J.

[Assemblymember Ed Ra, Ranking Member (Assembly minority designee)]: So I wanted to talk first about UPK. I think the governor's proposal with regard to the per pupil rate is great. It will help a lot of districts who have not been able to make this work previously, you know, be able to make it work financially. But the recurring concern I keep hearing is some districts don't have the space. And then also, as we ramp this up and try to get to true universal pre K, really staffing of them. So does the department have any thoughts with regard to, number one, the capital side of it? Because my understanding is right now that is excluded from state aid.

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: Sure. So the good news is that and it hasn't been published yet, but we do have a report because we've been working with OCFS. And our UPK, know, Office of Early Learning has been doing this amazing work in identifying those barriers. And to your point, you've already identified one of the barriers which is, of course, is having the space. Two, the other barrier is also the staffing situation. And so what we're trying to do is in the report, which should come out shortly, which they've been working on, is how do we then now take that report and begin to address through capital, through staffing, through standardization and having coherence. Because the one thing we also wanna try to do is no matter where these programs with particularly with the $10,000, no matter where these programs exist, that we create standardization so that these programs are effective across the board and not have the differences from one program to the other. So our report, which I happen to have a draft of it and which should be out shortly, we will share with the legislature in terms of barriers, recommendations, and the way that we hope to address this issue, this very important issue in terms of building the foundation.

[Assemblymember Ed Ra, Ranking Member (Assembly minority designee)]: Okay, great. Look forward to reading that. Shifting to a different area that I know has always been a focus of your special education. What's the status with the tuition rate setting methodology study? And are there any preliminary findings that you can share with us from the group that's been contracted to perform that?

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: You're talking about the tuition rate methodology?

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, Senate Finance Committee]: Yes. Good morning. Hi.

[Speaker 12.0]: So the report is due 07/01/2027. There's a lot of work that's currently happening. There's been a lot of discussions with stakeholders to better understand what are their current realities as far as cost and talking to other stakeholders. So there are no preliminary findings at this time, but there is a lot of work happening to get us to being able to release the report.

[Assemblymember Ed Ra, Ranking Member (Assembly minority designee)]: Okay. And then I know you talked earlier, Commissioner, about some of the proposals in the region's budget proposal with regard to foundation aid, waiting for English language learners, and homelessness, and all But that type of one of the other things that the Rockefeller report recommended was removing special education funding from foundation aid and returning it to a categorical program. Does the department support making that type of recommendation? Or how do we think we're doing with regard to supporting and funding special education under the current formula?

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: Christina?

[Dr. Christina Coughlin, Chief Financial Officer, NYSED]: I think that's a case, Assembly member, where the answer sort of depends, right? I mean, because you could return it to a categorical, but does it adequately cover the cost? And that's a very complex calculation. And one of the things that I have the other side of the rate setting methodology study with my colleague, because I have the rate setting unit. It's in the finance shop. And one of the things we have learned, one of the preliminary findings, is that it is extremely complicated. I don't even think we knew how complicated it was. And now that we're digging in, it's more so. So returning the special education excess cost aids to categorical has, you know, it has some risks to it too. And it would really take a complicated study to understand that piece as well. So we don't have an answer for you there, but we're learning a lot through the study process that I think will help inform some recommendations to our board and

[Assemblymember Ed Ra, Ranking Member (Assembly minority designee)]: to And I think as we all know, right, it runs the gamut. So it's certainly not one size fits all when it comes to special education.

[Senator Shelley B. Mayer, Chair, Senate Education Committee]: J. Thank

[Hearing Clerk/Staff (unidentified)]: you.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, Senate Finance Committee]: New York City Chair John Liu.

[Senator John C. Liu, Chair, Senate NYC Education Committee]: J. Thank you, Madam Chair. And thank you to our wonderful colleagues at the SED for always joining us and always being available, as Chair Maher had mentioned. And I do want to thank you two years after the fact for completing a major study on school governance models, in particular, mayoral control in New York City. The timing of that two years ago was a little bit you know, it was not the best timing, not due to any fault of yours. But this year, the issue is front and center once again, so we certainly will be drawing upon the wisdom that that study provides. I wanted to ask you about what the SED has deemed to be the harm that the federal government and the so called education policies of this federal administration has How deeply has it harmed the students in New York State? Or maybe perhaps the harm was not as pronounced, mainly because we don't depend on the federal government that much for education policy and funding?

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: So let me speak to from the policy perspective, it's a little, I think, comforting knowing that New York State clearly, our legislators, our governor, have in place many of the kinds of requirements and accountability pieces that allow us to continue to do our good work. But nonetheless, there have been issues that we've had to go to court on, as you know. Initially, we were the first state to jump when the whole COVID, situation happened, and, we were quite successful. And other states were very grateful to us for really giving voice to this issue right off the bat. We continue our team continues to be involved with CCSSO. Many of our groups that help us to navigate through the maze that we're involved as the federal government transitions some of our responsibilities to labor and other. So the good news is that we continue to stay extremely active. We participate in many of the conversations that take place. We do have even support from LPI, which is run under Linda Darling Hammond. So we have a lot of experts who guide us, external partners who guide us in this work as well. So we have a lot of thought partners. We always come back to, you know, our our the policies and the law of our state. And in many kinds of situations, we then, you know, work with our governor and our AG and look at, you know, places that we need to take positions to support our students. So we've been pretty active in making sure that we give voice. We have not been silent, that we give voice to those things that we know impact on our children. And so we're grateful to the state for providing some very, very specific guidance that allow us to move forward on issues that we have to advocate for.

[Senator John C. Liu, Chair, Senate NYC Education Committee]: And how about has the state education department looked at the potential impact of what the White House is proposing in terms of a federal voucher program. And they say that, at least in the current iteration who knows what's going to happen a couple of years down the road? But they say that there's no fiscal impact on the state or either New York state or any of the states and that it's fully a federal subsidy. So what harm could there be? Could there be any harms? Perhaps not in funding necessarily, but to education quality?

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: So let me answer. The first part of your question was, have we been paying attention 100, even to the point that most of you know there are 23 states that have signed on? We have been participating in going to Washington and conversations in Washington. And as I said, really looking at not only the fiscal impact, but to your question, what other impacts will have in terms of, you know, our, public schools, versus, again, under the banner of parental choice, most people think of it in terms of it's a good thing when you hear the term parental choice. These are the kinds of decisions that who benefits financially. When you look at it on its face, you look at it and think, well, having additional contributions is usually a good thing. So you kind of bucket these. These are all good things. But then what are the unforeseen consequences? And those are the kinds of key questions and analysis and synthesis that we're currently doing. Because, you know, on the face itself, you could check a couple of boxes. But in reality, when you start to peel, you know, it it's almost like and I'll use this very specific example. When, you know, sometimes you think about we're not anti charter, but you have to look at what are the consequences that a charter removing dollars from a public school, you know, you still have to maintain the teacher, the, you know, the administration, everything else. So while it's an experiment, it's what are the unforeseen consequences as a result?

[Senator John C. Liu, Chair, Senate NYC Education Committee]: Commissioner, I mean, just to be clear, I'm very, very much against this so called federal giveaway for schools. I think there are very negative consequences down the road, if not immediately apparent. But the arguments that proponents forward are that it doesn't cost the state any money. It's almost free money for schools that don't get state funding and it increases choice. But, you know, again, I would like to know what the SED has determined in terms of negative consequences.

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: Yeah. So for us, it's looking, you know, I think that the thing that I want to answer is that in a situation like this, SED, we tend to look at the information. We tend to have conversations obviously that are going on at the national level and getting so we can make our argument. You know, we don't start off, you know, at least I don't, start off, you know, does it look like a Trojan horse? You know, yeah, it probably does. But I want to be able to look at it from all the different variables and be able to make an argument. Why is this a good thing? Why this is not a good thing? So we are still and I'm gonna let Jeff because he's been intimately, as I we both have been, in trying to really sort through, you know, in these kinds of situations, it's what are the benefits, what are the consequences. And at the end of the day, if the consequences are that we are going to diminish our public sector as a result of it, then obviously I don't even see how SCD could possibly support that. But, you know, go ahead, Jeff.

[Dr. Jeffrey Matteson, Senior Deputy Commissioner, NYSED]: I think just to give one example of a real uncertainty that could potentially be a costly issue is the scholarship granting organizations, that we have not had a lot of experience with these type of organizations. They're gonna get set up in this state. They're gonna be a pass through for some of this money. The monitoring of that, the kind of things that can happen when there's that kind of pass through without a lot of accountability. When we're given federal money to do things, we have to monitor that money. And we're monitored how we monitor. So I I can't see how there's no expense to ensure that the money's going where it's supposed to go if they're acting on education.

[Senator John C. Liu, Chair, Senate NYC Education Committee]: Which is suggesting possible fraud?

[Dr. Jeffrey Matteson, Senior Deputy Commissioner, NYSED]: J. B. Potentially. I don't know what the experience has been in other states. We're still studying those things. But we're concerned about what's happening, how the money is being spent, where it's going, and how it's monitored in our state. Because, you know, it is under the purview of the Commissioner of the Education within the state. We're going to have to take a look and see what's happening to children and monitoring what happens in these schools. So that could be a potential expense. Yeah, it might be a federal tax break, and that money may be coming directly from that tax break. But I don't think we have any example of educating half

[Senator John C. Liu, Chair, Senate NYC Education Committee]: the J. Legislature gave one pretty decent example. I think it would be helpful for all the legislators, no matter where we may be initially falling on this issue, to get more examples and more analysis from the state education department and to do so within the next month.

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: Absolutely.

[Senator Andrew Gounardes]: Thank you.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: You. Senator, we owe you two minutes. Could you just use that two minutes to introduce your staff with you so the members here and us know who's aiding you? And then I'll introduce the members that have joined us as we started. Just introduce who they are and what they do.

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: Oh, I'm sorry. I thought Okay. I thought that when I did the original introduction that Okay.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: There, there. I see them. Like to know

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: what was that. Dingle is my P-twelve. And my senior dep really basically is my the person that although we we we don't have an exec, so we kind of split. I do OP. He oversees P12 and I do OP museum, physical, we share. I oversee legal. He is our general counsel, Dan Bentley. Christine is our CFO and this is a new wonderful role that Salon has taken on which is P12 plus adult education access. So next month we are going to come back to the higher ed. But she started some early on. We combined this last year where we used to have special ed under P12 and access, you know, the adult piece of this under Salon. So we took special education and we put it all under Salon because now she sees everything from, you know, the babies all the way through to the adults, access VR. And in addition to that, she actually also does a lot of the transitions of our 14 year old plus in our high schools. So a big portfolio and a great job. And this

[Senator Shelley B. Mayer, Chair, Senate Education Committee]: is Just our

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: thanks for the information. We've been joined by Assembly members Clark, Ekis, Mitaynes, Otis, Seawright, Simon, and Conrad. Our next questioner will be Assemblyman Carroll.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, Senate Finance Committee]: We have some senators also to introduce. Thank you.

[Senator Tom O’Mara, Senate Republican Ranker]: We've been joined on our side by Senator Dean Murray, our ranker on libraries, and Senators Alexis Weich, Dan Steck, and Steve Chan.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, Senate Finance Committee]: And we've also been joined by Senator Risport and Senator Clear. I don't think we got Senator Clear before.

[Chancellor Kumar Samuels, NYC Department of Education]: No. No?

[Speaker 17.0]: No, you did get us.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, Senate Finance Committee]: Or did? Okay.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: She's here.

[Assemblymember Stacey Pheffer Amato]: She's here.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, Senate Finance Committee]: I think we've covered ours. Thank you.

[Senator Andrew Gounardes]: LARRY Fantastic. And Senator Gennardis.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, Senate Finance Committee]: LARRY Oh.

[Senator Andrew Gounardes]: LARRY You're welcome, Andrew. Morning, MILLER: Commissioner We

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, Senate Finance Committee]: already got him too.

[Senator Andrew Gounardes]: LARRY Well, was looking at you, so I thought he wanted to have his name set. But look, I will get to my time, senators. So Commissioner Rosa, we will start with talking about my world's favorite topic, which of course is literacy and students with language based learning disabilities, specifically dyslexia. In last year's budget, we allocated $250,000 to a center for dyslexia and dysgraphia. And then about six weeks later, we passed a piece of legislation to create a center for dyslexia and dysgraphia. How much money will it cost to fully fund that center?

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: $2,100,000

[Senator Andrew Gounardes]: J. Fantastic. I love these very specific answers. And I look forward to working with you to make sure that we get that funding. I also want to talk about the Back to Basics program. In two budgets ago, we spent $10,000,000 providing funding for professional learning for teachers in evidence based literacy curriculum. Can you report back if those funds have been drawn down and if that program has been successful and if there are new funds to do that for literacy? I know I see that they are there for math in this budget, but if there are new funds to train more teachers in evidence based literacy curriculum.

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: Okay, very quickly, let me just make a distinction that we have been, for a long time, with the work that we've done with Doctor. LaSalle, with our standards and everything else, we've been doing the science of reading for a while. The $10,000,000 that you're talking about was designated for NICEID to do that work. So we have been looking at the proposal, working through DOB to because I think that NICED had committed to about my understanding at the time was about 20,000

[Senator Andrew Gounardes]: I think that's right.

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: Okay. So I think at this point, as of this year, Angelique, think it's 1,000 teachers have been yeah, about 1,000 teachers have been trained.

[Senator Andrew Gounardes]: G. Out of 20,000 that we had planned to train two years ago. And how many teachers are there in New York State, do you know roughly, between K through 12? A lot more than 20,000, right? Right, there are at least 80,000 in New York City.

[Hearing Clerk/Staff (unidentified)]: Is

[Senator Andrew Gounardes]: there a plan for the state education department to create standardization to make sure that all of our teachers are trained in evidence based literacy curriculum?

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: So, again, I'm going to turn to Angelique. We have been doing this work. See, 10,000,000 is very specific for a project We that's on have taken this on as part of the New York Inspires to make sure that our, particularly after the task force, that our teachers are trained so that when they come out of the higher ed space, that higher ed space, that they are ready in having the knowledge base and the skills in terms of understanding specifics of the signs of reading and the signs of learning. So part of that work, we've continued that work on our own without any funding, really, just because we truly believe now. Path Forward has given us the support to then look at it from the higher ed perspective and looking at some of the critical screening issues and other issues that are part of this conversation. Angelie?

[Angelique Dingle Johnson, P-12 Deputy Commissioner, NYSED]: So yes, thank you for the question. But in addition, we were able to hire literacy associates, at which, at a time, I want to say two years ago, the department didn't even have an expert around literacy. So we are grateful for that support. In the two years, not only have we released briefs that were coined by Doctor. Noni Lasso, we've also created a curriculum review guide to help school districts and leaders and teachers understand how the materials they are utilizing within their districts are actually aligned to evidence based practices. That is out on the street. We have done a statewide webinar that had over 1,400 educators involved in that training. But we do plan, and we are in process of also developing curriculum review guides for our higher grades as well. Because, again, local boards of education spend hundreds of thousands of dollars purchasing materials and resources. And we want to make sure those resources are aligned not just to our standards, but to what evidence and research tells us is best for students J. When acquiring

[Senator Andrew Gounardes]: I couldn't agree more. And I think state ed has gone a really long way in the last number of years to bringing New York into the best practices of evidence based literacy approaches and disseminating those approaches to teachers and administrators. However, I still think we have a long way to go. And I would love for SED to take a page out of the book of many other states where we really standardize this that we require this, that we do not have a soft mandate, but that we have a hard mandate that makes it very clear what the standards are, what curriculums meet those standards, and what professional development must be done by teachers to meet those standards. I think that is the best practice. You had mentioned standardization before in your testimony. That kind of standardization will ensure that we actually turn the corner on the literacy crisis that is facing children throughout our nation. You all know very well that over fifty percent of our students still struggle to read at a basic level in our state. That is unconscionable. And you all know very, very well that students with language based learning disabilities, who are far and away the largest group of students with disabilities, have for generations not received the education that they are entitled to, and thus, they have had their potential stunted tremendously. And I know, Doctor. Rosa, that you care about this. You and I talk about this regularly. But you must know, as an advocate, as a legislator, I think we must continue to lean into this issue, because if we do not, there will be so many children who do not have potential. I would like to see my two children go to the school that I can see from the window of their bedroom. I was denied that right when I was a child, but I was lucky because my parents had the means and the opportunity to send me to a school that could provide me the education that I so desperately needed. The vast majority of students in the state of New York are not that lucky, and so it is the public school system that we must gird to make sure that they can teach all children to learn how to read.

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: So so let me just also add that even with our multilingual, we have done the science of reading briefs as well. The tension we have, and I know you've heard me say this, is that when I talk about standardization is is the structural issue. Our standards are across the board. We stand with those. That is universal. Every single district, you know, absolutely, that's what they lean on. Now but we also have, as you know, local control.

[Senator Andrew Gounardes]: And you know I disagree with it. Okay. And I think we should. The states that have gone the furthest, Mississippi, Alabama, Louisiana, have decided to do away with that. They spend a fraction of the money we spend. They have the fraction of the resources. They have significantly more systemic problems. I would never want to live in one of those states. But they have done unbelievable things to serve the children of those states, so that they could become fluid and fluent readers. When you were almost denied that right as a child, as I was, you understand the agency that reading creates. And the thing is, most Americans don't realize that one in seven American adults is illiterate. We can change that. That destroys lives. It doesn't just stop you from having potential to get a job. It stops you from going to a doctor's office. It stops you from corresponding with your family members. It makes you have bad habits. And so I'm going to end on this one final point. Last week, you decided to pull an amendment that would have changed the due process for children who have IESPs. I thank you for that. We should treat all students with disabilities in the same way. And we should come up with one standard practice for that, because they all have rights and they all deserve to have due process. If it's good for the goose, it's good for the gander. And so we should have a big conversation about how to make sure that, but we should not bifurcate it and say that a child with a disability in an independent school or religious school is treated differently than a child in a public school.

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: Thank you.

[Senator Andrew Gounardes]: Thank you.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, Senate Finance Committee]: Thank you. Thank you. The next senator is Senator Dean Murray on libraries.

[Senator Dean Murray, Senate Libraries Ranker]: Thank you. Over here caught me off guard a little bit. So let's see. So let me start with I have a little list. First, Chairwoman Maher had mentioned the universal free meals. And I was disturbed to hear that some schools are not participating. Could I get also that list? J. Sure. J. Did we ever get the answer? How many schools are not participating? Do we know yet?

[Dr. Jeffrey Matteson, Senior Deputy Commissioner, NYSED]: Know that we added 52 new districts and 100 new buildings. But we don't have the who's still out of it. We do have it. We'd have to just get it for you.

[Senator Dean Murray, Senate Libraries Ranker]: Okay. Thank you very much. Then Assemblyman Rob brought up the UPK limitations attached to the funding. One that wasn't mentioned was also transportation.

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: Correct.

[Senator Dean Murray, Senate Libraries Ranker]: Can we also push for some flexibility there as well? Okay. And then forgive me. I've got to pull this up here. And

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: we'll share the report with you because all those barriers are listed in the report, which is an incredible report.

[Senator Dean Murray, Senate Libraries Ranker]: J. Very good. Thank you. Foundation aid. A couple of things. First, as far as Long Island and the new formula, in Suffolk alone, you've got Suffolk Schools. 81%, I believe, of the districts are off formula. They're receiving a 1%, which generally puts them behind the eight ball now. It's almost a cut. Are we still working to work through this and make this better? Because they can't continue year after year to get 1% in foundation aid. We've got to fix that.

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: Yeah, we've had conversations about the 1% issue. You know, you know, the safe harmless issue

[Senator Shelley B. Mayer, Chair, Senate Education Committee]: of of

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: looking at I the think it's 460 districts. Although some some someone would say four sixty one, four sixty, But we, you know, that is the number of districts that would be impacted with the 1%.

[Dr. Jeffrey Matteson, Senior Deputy Commissioner, NYSED]: That's a lot.

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: Exactly. And what the implications are, you know, particularly at a time when, know, when you look at health insurance and you look at, as you said, some of the other costs, it is going to have an impact.

[Senator Dean Murray, Senate Libraries Ranker]: Yes, definitely. So Senator Weich had to jump out, but she asked me to ask this too. Would you support a new cost study to see what the base amount of the formula should be to meet today's demands and expectations for a sound basic education? But importantly, would you support regional cost studies? It couldn't be a statewide because the differential is so large.

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: Yes. And I think there are two parts to that. We would support that 100%. But I also think part of the missing piece here that I think we do have an expertise is the modeling, to look at some of these modeling, as you said, in not just statewide, but yes.

[Senator Dean Murray, Senate Libraries Ranker]: Right. The regional differentials as far as cost of living are large. Then finally, I want to get to a topic near and dear to my heart, and that is the two hundred and fiftieth acceleration. The 2,500,000, I mean, that's almost embarrassing. This is going to be one of the biggest tourist events and everything. But more importantly, there were four original signers of the Declaration of Independence. One from, I believe, Livingston was from Albany. We had Francis Lewis from Queens. But William Floyd from Suffolk County and Proud, the 3rd Senate District.

[Speaker 22.0]: We have

[Speaker 23.0]: Catherine partners that have to be joined. J.

[Senator Dean Murray, Senate Libraries Ranker]: Shouldn't we focus more there? I mean, that's huge. The four original signers of the Declaration of Independence, Suffolk County received $125,000 That's ridiculous. There's got to be more of an investment there. We should be putting more money into this because this is an investment. This is going to be a huge celebration, great tourist attraction. What can we do to get more money on this? I've already sent something to the governor, but what can we do to ensure that not just we're getting more money overall, but to these particular four areas, the celebration is gonna be much larger. What can we do?

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: Well, I I would say the advocacy around this issue needs to happen. Some of it is locally. Right. As you know, as we're going around to different parts of of the state, there is, you know, some places there are local investments that are being made and

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: I'm

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: more than glad to share with you the distribution of how we did the funding, but it was only the 2.5. I can't account for the other 2.5. We did a budget, a strategic plan based on those dollars.

[Senator Dean Murray, Senate Libraries Ranker]: Would you join me in pushing for more, please?

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: Absolutely.

[Senator Dean Murray, Senate Libraries Ranker]: Great. Thank you very much.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: John Thank you. Assemblyman Smith.

[Assemblymember Doug Smith, Ranking Member, Assembly Education Committee]: Thank you, and great to see you this morning, Commissioner. I don't know if you realize it's been ten years. Ten years ago, you were named Chancellor of the Board of Regents and now Commissioner. And I do think that we've seen a bit of a turning point to now focus on the whole child and really all the things, rather than at the time we were building a plane in the air and kind of going in a different direction. Universal Pre K, a few of my colleagues have mentioned this. I think I was happy to see that the governor's proposed minimum reimbursement rate of $10,000 per child is a step in the right direction. But it still falls short of the estimated and this comes from the SED's report on universal pre K that it costs between $10,000 and $14,000 That's the market rate for UPK. Are we doing enough, do you believe, to really give districts the funding that they need? Because and I'll tell you, when my school districts that I represent receive their school aid runs, they all will note to me. And I have Sage from a middle country school districts on Long Island, large suburban districts. You know, it might say for Sage from that they received 3,500,000.0 in UPK funding or middle country 4,700,000. But the reality is, you know, they can't access that entire funding. This has been a recurring theme that I've seen speaking to districts because they may not be able to have the physical capacity to teach all of these students. So therefore, then that 3,500,000 really becomes $2,500,000 because they leave a million dollars on the table unable to access that. So what additional, you know, do you think this is a step in the right direction? Are we doing enough?

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: Absolutely. It's more than a step in the right direction. I think it's a true commitment to universal pre K. And if you notice, over the years, have gone once upon a time, we had like seven different and you know, was sitting here where I was saying, oh my god, when are we going to get to a true universal? And I think at this point, there is a date of 2028, which is a good thing because we are right around the corner in terms of that. So I do to applaud and celebrate the commitment that, know, as you said, the 10,000, that's huge. I did have a meeting with the NYSCUS CAC of about 70 superintendents. And to your point, several from Long Island, from throughout, have raised some of these issues. So I do want to address some of the internal conversations we've been having, not only about the report, but also, you know, and the barriers that we have to address, but also, you know, some of the ways that we can facilitate and be

[Assemblymember Doug Smith, Ranking Member, Assembly Education Committee]: helpful

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: as

[Assemblymember Doug Smith, Ranking Member, Assembly Education Committee]: as we

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: go through.

[Assemblymember Doug Smith, Ranking Member, Assembly Education Committee]: And I'll tell you before you because I I appreciate that. Because what I'm hearing from school districts is they're looking at their state legislators and saying, look, we have k through 12 obligations financially. Right. And if this program is consistently, in their mind, losing money in a sense because it's not the same mandate that we have for the rest of the system, that they may have to stop providing these services. So I agree with you. I think it's a step in the right direction, but I'd like

[Hearing Clerk/Staff (unidentified)]: Yeah. To

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: I had one principal who said one superintendent, sorry who said at the meeting, I can't cut a second grade.

[Assemblymember Doug Smith, Ranking Member, Assembly Education Committee]: Right.

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: So I hear you.

[Assemblymember Doug Smith, Ranking Member, Assembly Education Committee]: And it's a choice, right? Absolutely.

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: But I do I still will say it is an this is something that we should celebrate. Now we just have to figure out, you know, what what are the, you know, the barriers that we need to address and how do we move to that, dream place called universal pre k.

[Dr. Christina Coughlin, Chief Financial Officer, NYSED]: Yeah. I think that what districts are seeing on the run is an increment to what they're currently doing. So that will help the districts that are there now a lot. That is good news. There's no doubt about it. And I know the governor's put aside some money for districts that will be able to implement programs this year that they have not had before also really good news. One thing, the three years is going to be an opportunity to kind of test some of those issues and find out, well, Okay, districts have boundaries here and here around their own space, their own fiscal health. And then I think there'll be additional room for some policy changes over time. But what a great first step.

[Assemblymember Doug Smith, Ranking Member, Assembly Education Committee]: I appreciate that. I appreciate the department recognizing that because, like I said, our school districts do want to prioritize that. But being hamstrung by having the property tax contribution and then the contribution from Albany in state aid, they're really limited. And like you said, Commissioner, rightly so, they want to provide these services and programs because that's what parents need and want. And thank you for your support on that.

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: Thank you.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, Senate Finance Committee]: And next is our chair of libraries, Senator Bino.

[Speaker 25.0]: Thank you, Madam Chair. Good morning, Commissioner.

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: Good morning.

[Speaker 25.0]: So I want to first start out talking about the library construction aid. It's defunded by 10,000,000 in this year's budget. Can you tell us how much it was oversubscribed last year?

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: 6,000,000.

[Dr. Christina Coughlin, Chief Financial Officer, NYSED]: Had a microphone. Sorry. I'm not

[Assemblymember Stacey Pheffer Amato]: sure

[Dr. Christina Coughlin, Chief Financial Officer, NYSED]: oversubscribed. So we were disappointed to see

[Speaker 25.0]: what You received were a lot of requests last year for funding. You weren't able to meet the needs of everyone who responded. How much did we not fund last year based on We're going the number of

[Dr. Christina Coughlin, Chief Financial Officer, NYSED]: have to get back to you on that one. But clearly, there's a lot of room here for those funds. Local libraries need that funds. They are targeted toward high needs communities and improvements, like ADA improvements. So obviously, the regions are very supportive of an increase to that. And we were disappointed to see the reduction.

[Speaker 25.0]: Thank you. And then there's a push for literacy. I believe that our school libraries also play a significant role in that space. But yet, we have not increased these material aid to schools. It stays flat from 2007. Is your plan, Commissioner? We have to address that.

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: Yeah. And that's the $6.25 I know. Let me just go back to the other question. We did increase by 6, I think from the 50 to, it was $6,000,000 that was, right? Yes, 6,000,000 requested. Yeah, initially. So I just want to

[Speaker 25.0]: 6,000,000?

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: Requested initially, yes. Okay. But, yes, I agree that the $6.25 you know, that we have to do a better job with that. No question about it. And to your point about, you know, librarians and libraries are are those those intersections with our schools and our instructional strategies as we talked about are so critical because it's one thing, you know, the love of reading gets replaced in some ways or added or extended in the fact that children with the joy of, you know, reading on their own books, going to our media literacy librarians are really are doing a fantastic job in making those connections. Angelique? ANGELLEY

[Angelique Dingle Johnson, P-12 Deputy Commissioner, NYSED]: Okay. Thank you. And part of the work that we are doing around literacy from the state education department is looking to not just partner with our public libraries, but also uplifting them through resources, partnering with parent teacher associations to help make sure we're bringing parents into the conversations additionally, because we understand the importance of that connection and making sure that parents know what resources are available, not just within their schools, but also their local public libraries and how to utilize them as resources to support their children.

[Speaker 25.0]: Thank you. I do think we have to fund our school libraries at a higher rate. So I'll be advocating for that. So my next question is regarding the decline in school enrollment and school districts that are very aid dependent. How would you suggest that we make adjustments in the aid formula to be able to address those needs.

[Dr. Christina Coughlin, Chief Financial Officer, NYSED]: We're watching that very closely, and we're concerned as well. I think that gets into the broader question about a study and how we handle districts. And there are districts that are right near each other that can cooperate across district lines in ways that we haven't been able to do yet. But I think the department would like to encourage that. Where there are legislative barriers to that, we will let you know. But we also have to recognize that we have some districts that are in such sparsely populated parts of the state that working with neighbors becomes a real challenge. So I think this is another argument for a formula study that gets at this issue and then some of the others that are facing our stimulus And

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: I think our formula study should also include dollars that exit for various reasons, you know, competing issues that we set up that, really have an impact. Particularly some districts when you think about, you know, like, I'm sitting here and I'm thinking of a particular district where it's a 38% goes out, right, versus in other places, 12%. So I think there is a need. And and for those of you we're talking about in terms of the charter school issue. Right? So I do think that there is a fundamental need to look at our formula and to see not only inputs, but inputs and outputs and the impact that it has on urban, suburban, rural across the board.

[Speaker 25.0]: So to that point in terms of the percentages of the funds that are leaving the districts, you know that Senate District six has a proliferation of charter schools. The 38% that you're referring to is Hempstead School District, followed by 18% with Roosevelt, 13% in Uniondale. You know, they're faced with insurmountable obstacles. But one of the things that I do think could be helpful in this space is expanding community schools in those communities that are faced with those challenges. We know that it has been helpful in being able to increase graduation rates and reduce absenteeism. So what is the department's plan for increasing community school opportunities across the state?

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: So let me start by saying, having run the first community school in the state in District 6, Robert Jackson being at the time the board president of the school board at that time, I am a huge believer in this not only community schools as hubs, not only supporting and educating the child, but educating the family and the community. And so community schools allow partnerships with various stakeholders, various, affiliates of people who for example, I had Children's Aid Society, New York Foundling. You have people who focus on mental health services, dental clinics, housing. Community schools allow for the kinds of, to your point about attendance, where a kid doesn't have to go outside to a dental. The dental clinic is inside of that space. Mental health, the same thing. Family support systems, the same thing. So I am a huge supporter as having run my very own first school as a community school and knowing it firsthand, the difference that it made in terms of my attendance, my students, you know, the the the whole process of what they went through, and my families in in that hub, in that community, and having a sense that that school did more than just educate their children. A huge supporter of community schools.

[Speaker 25.0]: I think we need to increase funding so that some of the rural and suburban schools can also benefit from community schools. Lead based paint lead based lead contamination in water pipes at schools. We have identified, I believe it is, 24 school districts in Nassau County that have contaminated water sources. I know there's funding where they can be reimbursed once they lay out the initial Has cost for the that fund grown over the years? Because we're seeing that this is an increased issue and we'd like to make sure that the funds are there to address it.

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: Yeah. We're gonna get back to you. I don't we I'm not aware that it has grown. We are aware of places that have been impacted and, you know, but in terms of we'll get back to you if the funding has grown.

[Speaker 25.0]: Okay. Because I pulled it from your website and quite a few of my schools are impacted and so I'd like to know what technical assistance is available, you know, what remediation plans they might be able to glean from and moving forward to execute the remediation. So I just want to know about the funding, though. I don't know that we're funding that line item enough.

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: Yeah. We'll give you both the facilities portion of this, of how it's addressed, and also the funding as well.

[Speaker 27.0]: All right. Thank

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: you And the for areas.

[Speaker 28.0]: All right.

[Speaker 29.0]: Thank

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: you. You. Osama bin Klotenschon.

[Speaker 30.0]: Good morning there, commissioner and staff, and thank you for joining us this morning. My question is in regards to the electric school bus mandate that's going to be implemented in 2027 and how the education department is handling that. And my goal is to make sure that it's practical, affordable, and fair for all the school districts across primarily Western New York where I represent. My question is, for districts like Lancaster, De Pew, Chickatawaga, and Buffalo, does the education department have a total per bus cost of compliance estimate that would include the buses, chargers, electrical upgrades, and facility modifications? And if so, how much of that cost will fall on local taxpayers? Or is that all going to be completely state funded?

[Dr. Jeffrey Matteson, Senior Deputy Commissioner, NYSED]: We get this question pretty regularly on this bus mandate. And one of the concerns is, one of the predictions was that the cost of these would come down over time. It hasn't shown to do that quite yet. And even with the purchasing plan that they have now, it would still require up to $116,000 of local money to purchase one of these buses once the full plan is put in place. I think the cost of the infrastructure piece is all over the map because every school district has different needs. Every community has different needs. They may have to bring in new electricity sources because of how much would be used in a certain community. Some communities don't have the capacity right now to manage the electrical vehicles for the school district, who would probably have the largest fleet of anybody in some of those communities in rural Western New York and the other rural areas. So I think that's one of the reasons why you haven't seen a ton of these purchased originally. I mean, we're still under 200 on the road, I think, in New York State at this point. But we do have a lot of districts who are doing what they're supposed to do because they follow the law. They're working with NYSERDA, doing their studies like they're supposed to. We have posted, as asked in the last budget, the waivers with instructions for the waivers and the waiver process for two years. So it's open now, but we will not look at those until after July 1, so it applies to the following year. They don't need a waiver for next year. So I think time will tell what the actual cost is going to be. And we can't predict that. Fortunately, two budgets ago, through the legislature and the governor, we were given personnel to do this work. So office of facilities planning is ramped up and is able to take on the work whenever we get the call to put together these projects. And also, Ed Management Services has been consulting regularly with people in the field. And we have individuals who have expertise who can support the districts in that. So we're ready for more to come in. It's one of those rare moments where you gave us the personnel. We're ready. And now we're just at a manageable stage. It became unmanageable, we let you know. But we are concerned about the rate of adoption at this point. And we'll see what happens over the next couple of years.

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: And the fact that, keep in mind the way it's structured, the community has to vote.

[Speaker 30.0]: Yeah. So in regards to the waiver process and what was included in the state budget last year for districts to show that they have a technical or financial hardship. Do we have data on how many districts across New York State have already applied for this? And do we see or anticipate a large number forthcoming?

[Dr. Jeffrey Matteson, Senior Deputy Commissioner, NYSED]: Since it doesn't require application for next year, just having it open, there's a few that have put it in there just to get it done. I mean, than 15, I would say. But we're anticipating more after July 1 because they don't want to put it in before they have a better understanding of their financial plan because they want to get through this budget cycle, see where they are financially, and then they'll have true numbers to put into the waiver for the following year. Anecdotally, we're anticipating a good number for that first two year waiver. The two year waiver after the next one requires some pretty deep consultation with NYSERDA. And they're going to have to sign off that, indeed, they are not prepared to be able to go forward yet and it would need another two year waiver.

[Speaker 30.0]: J. Thank you. Appreciate your answers.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, Senate Finance Committee]: Turning the green light on. So sorry. All right, we are up to, excuse me, Senator Guarnardis.

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: You can hear you because you're up front.

[Senator Andrew Gounardes]: There we go. Thank you. Thank you, Senator Gru. Good morning, everyone. Thank you, commissioner. First, on the theme of the two and fifty this is really loud now, isn't it? It was really loud. On the theme of the two hundred and fiftieth, I would just say we should not forget the most consequential battle of the American Revolution. Of course, that's the Battle of Brooklyn, the deadliest, largest, most consequential. And the organizing committee for the Battle of Brooklyn has received no public support whatsoever for its annual commemoration, let alone its two hundred fiftieth. So we hope that we can work with you and others to include that as part of this year's celebration. I want to focus a little bit about a correspondence that we had late last year around FAFSA completion. You know, a couple years ago, required, based on legislation I introduced, requiring students to complete the FAFSA form because so many students are leaving money on the table when they don't complete their FAFSA. By one estimate, in 2022, dollars 200,000,000 left on the table by New York students in Pell Grants alone. Incredibly concerning. And at a time when 63% of Americans don't think college is worth it today, helping them pay for it makes it worth it. And so, you know, we had a correspondence about how we were doing in the compliance rates around completing the FAFSA. Your office sent me back a lot of great data, which I appreciate. But there are still two key questions that remain unanswered for me. And the first is, how are we doing today with our FAFSA completion rate compared to the year before we required FAFSA completion? That, I think, is a critical detail for us to understand how we are making progress towards the goal of universal FAFSA completion. Other states that have taken this step, by my understanding, have seen double digit increases once they started implementing this mandate. And so I'm curious if we can get clarity on what our before and after numbers show with FAFSA And

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: we actually, I think in the memo we sent you, because even the state moving up, you saw that. We shared that. We shared the percentage that we've moved up.

[Senator Andrew Gounardes]: The other But that was sorry, Commissioner. But that was relative to other states. I'm asking the year before we had the mandate, what was our FAFSA completion rate?

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: No, no.

[Assemblymember Robert C. Carroll]: And that

[Speaker 31.0]: was the

[Senator Andrew Gounardes]: year starting 2025, what our rate was. I don't think that data point was provided in that letter.

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: Okay. Because I think we shared the position we were in last year and then this year. But I'll go through that because I think it was a substantial increase. Now, the one thing you have to remember is that this is a tripod. Right? You have HESC. You have, obviously, in in this particular case, have higher ed and you have our department. We have been meeting with all three partners so that this is not just SED. It does feel like times as if, you know, because I've got ambassadors out there. I have letters.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Thank you, Commissioner.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, Senate Finance Committee]: Thank you.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: We'll follow-up. Assemblywoman Jaime kept looking at me.

[Speaker 32.0]: Good morning, commissioner, and good morning to your your team. Let me just unlock my phone so I can pull my question up. I'm sorry. I didn't hear you mention when you were talking with deputy commissioner Myers rough. BPSS, you still have that? Okay. I didn't hear it mentioned. You know. I have to ask about that department. Let me just find my question. Sorry. I know in the governor's budget, 2,000,000 was included for general and discretionary use, office of p through 12. But I'm really concerned about the graduate measures. Does it fully cover that part? Because I know last year was MIA.

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: Yes, thank you for that. So we've been in internal conversations because you're absolutely correct that we did not get the funding And we still move forward and moved ahead. So our plan is that the $2,000,000 that you're talking about, we've been having internal conversations that that is money that we will be using to address the whole issue of Portrait of a Graduate, Grad Measure. And for the audience, I just want you to know that there's a level of excitement around the Portrait of the Graduate and Grad Measures that I personally have been in the system, a region, chancellor in this. This is the first time that whether I go to, you know, I'm in North Country or, you know, all the way to, you know, Long Island, if I'm in Hempstead or Oceanside and everything in between, there is such a level of excitement. People are not only attending our hybrid workshops, but truly, truly embracing it. And superintendents, principals, parents, everybody's talking about this amazing opportunity.

[Speaker 32.0]: Okay. With the seconds I have left, for the Consortium for Worker Education, I know the executive proposes a $1,500,000 increase. Is it possible for you to give me statistics on, like, how they're doing, where the money's going, what are the benchmarks of success?

[Speaker 28.0]: Thank you.

[Speaker 12.0]: We get an annual report from them, and so we can share that information

[Speaker 32.0]: Yes, with Okay.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, Senate Finance Committee]: Thank you.

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: That's an easy one.

[Chancellor Kumar Samuels, NYC Department of Education]: Senator?

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, Senate Finance Committee]: I'm so sorry. Thank you. And next we have Senator Weber.

[Senator Bill Weber]: Good morning, Commissioner. How are you?

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: Good morning. Good. Good morning.

[Senator Bill Weber]: SENATOR you know, I represent Rockland County, which has one of the most unique school districts in the state of New York, East Ramos School District, where we have nearly 10,000 public school students and close to 40,000 private school students. So I was happy to see changes last year, changes that I'd advocated for regarding the foundation aid formula. It brought an additional, I think, 38,000,000 in foundation aid to all the school districts in Rockland, including $18,000,000 more for East Ramos School District, which was well needed money to help those kids, those public school kids, get the education that we all know they deserve. There still remain some challenges, and I've been working with your department. We've had monthly meetings to discuss some of the challenges. I was happy to see in the executive budget additional weighting averages for foundation aid for the homeless, for ESL and ENL students. As you know, we have a tremendous amount of Spanish speaking students, Yiddish speaking students, and Creole speaking students. I think those weighted averages will help. Most recent statistics show that we have 1,500 homeless in East Ramapo alone compared to single digits in the surrounding districts, which to me is doesn't seem correct. But I know they're the district and your department, I think, may be doing a deeper dive on that. So having additional money to compensate that district for that, I think, would be welcomed as well. The one thing that I was disappointed to see in last year's enacted budget was the regional cost index. Rockland County was excluded as well as other counties. And I know you know as well as anyone that Rockland County is just as expensive to live in Westchester and some of the other surrounding counties. So I'm hopeful that we can work together on really getting Rockland County included, because I know that that would really help the district as well, because I know the costs are just as high. I just wanted to talk about a couple of things real quick. In terms of the education freedom tax credit, as I said, we have nearly 40,000 private school students in East Ramapo alone. When you add in Suffern and some of the other surrounding districts, it's higher than that. And the $3,400 credit for married couples, dollars 1,700 for individuals, is highly supported by a lot of the members that live in my district. And they've seen the success of, say, the five twenty nine plan where it's a deduction off your state taxes, but, you know, no effect on the federal. But it's a plan that's worked. And I think maybe that would alleviate some of your concerns maybe to look into how the five twenty nine plans have worked to see how that can be incorporated with the federal plan because we have a lot of interested parties that would like to see that looked at as well. So I appreciate you being here and your efforts so far. Thanks.

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: Thank you.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Thank you. Assemblymember Clark?

[Assemblymember Sarah Clark]: Thank you, and thank you, commissioner. My first order of business, you've had a lot of questions on pre k, but for me specifically as representing part of the Rochester City School District, is the way the allocations come out, New York City's getting support for their three ks as well. Well, there's 73 districts outside of the City Of New York that have three ks as well. 31% of those students are in the Rochester City School District. And so the way that the bump on the four ks formula does, what it does is it actually overall gives them less for both of those programs. So I think if we're looking to really ensure that we're giving the schools the revenue and the investments that they need to do this, we need to be very careful of these 73 school districts that are outside of the district that are doing three ks and that they're getting their fair share to do that as well. So it's something I just wanted to make sure is on your radar as we look forward because this would actually hurt the city school district in its current, the current formula that is in the governor's executive budget proposal. So please, I hope I can have your support us. We push that forward so that they are not harmed that funding. The second one is, as we look at pre K, you know, we have, is there any coordination starting to happen with OCFS as we look at community based partners? Because we have districts in my suburbs where the moment that school day ends for pre K, they actually have to get rid of six kids to meet the new ratio under OCFS, which means six families who wanted the wraparound care can't get it because the whole ratio changes the moment the school day ends. And so I feel like we're in this moment where we're really trying to do this big thing of universal child care, which includes four ks, three ks, all these things. But we have to ensure that we have our community partners whole in all of this and that we're making it work better so that we're not telling the family, well, at 02:15 or 03:00 you have to go get your kid and go take them somewhere else because that's just not something that really works for families.

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: So let me just say very quickly that this one, the governor really not only the study that we have in terms of the actual looking at the barriers and some of the issues. That's a key study. But the governor invited me, as some of you may know, I think it was two weeks ago, to also go with her as she was announcing the three pilots, right? And she has absolutely involved our department in not just OCFS but also through agencies And really looking at and that's the time we spend.

[Assemblymember Sarah Clark]: More to talk We to have lot you about to follow-up on.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Thank you.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, Senate Finance Committee]: You. Oops, sorry.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: You're on. We're ready.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, Senate Finance Committee]: I did go already.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Already you, I think. Think.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, Senate Finance Committee]: So sorry. Okay, is Alexis Week back? Wike, sorry. But she's not back

[Dr. Christina Coughlin, Chief Financial Officer, NYSED]: either.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: She's not back.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, Senate Finance Committee]: Fine. Thank you. Okay, so sorry. Senator Brisport.

[Senator Jabari Brisport]: Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you all. My question coincidentally is also about child care. The governor's proposed creating a new office of child care and early education. I know in your response to us, Lember Clark, you said you've been looped into conversations about the rollout. It's unclear to me how this new office may interact with existing offices in OCFS or that already touch on early childhood education. Could you just share if you have been given privy to any knowledge of how the new office will interact with the work that you're already doing?

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: So we have, as I shared that I was even invited to that meeting to actually be a part of three commissioners. I was there with labor and with OCFS. And so the message the governor pretty much gave at that point is that all of us are going to be working together to really look at a seamless, coherent approach to childcare. Obviously, you know, zero to three, three to five, and beyond. So not only her staff has reached out to us in terms of really working through that coherence, but I think there's a clear understanding that in order for this to work, that it has to be all the different components really having conversations. And that's when I was talking about the standardization so that we're supporting each other as we go through this process. It is truly exciting for us to know that the preparation work, and to the point of having agencies, other, you know, other agencies working closely with us to ensure that we have voice in that process, and, you know, the the actual presence, during that, you know, during that visit and the governor is saying publicly that it's not just going to be, you know, this new office, OCFS, but also, our department. I thought that was really, you know, a a very positive statement about the way we're going to tackle this situation.

[Senator Jabari Brisport]: Did you hear if there will be any separation of duties or dedicated duties that the new office may have that won't be given to NYSED?

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: Yeah. I think, you know, given the age situation and given the locations, yes. But I but what I'm what's very promising is the fact that having those conversations, being in the same space in the same room, that just like with the report that we did with all CFS, we can look at issues whether it's issues of, you know, how do we how do we structure the day, what are the, you know, what are the expectations?

[Senator Jabari Brisport]: Thank you.

[Speaker 31.0]: More than

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: glad to meet everyone. We've been joined by Assembly members Zinterman, Cruz, and Septimo. Our next questioner is Assemblywoman Lunsford.

[Assemblymember Jennifer Lunsford]: Thank you very much, Commissioner. Staying on the theme of UPK, as you know, in districts like mine, where most of my schools don't offer UPK, the pre K programs are primarily housed in child care providers. There's concerns on both sides with the child care providers who offset the cost of their zero to three population with their pre K program, that if these programs are pulled out of the day care programs, it's going to drive up rates for other families who are in those programs. In that same vein, my schools are concerned that they may be required to oversee programs that are housed in facilities they don't control with staff they don't employ. So our question is, how can we keep our day care programs whole while also ensuring that our schools, who frankly don't have the facilities or the staff, and we want these programs to remain in our day care providers, how can we ensure that they're not unduly burdened with oversight for these programs they have limited control over?

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: Yeah, I have not. In terms of the oversight conversation, it hasn't been about oversight. It's been more about how do we get together given the individuals that, you know, this is kind of like the cross agency conversations. And then how do we share resources? How do we share the ways of work and expectations and preparation and staff development? We invite you know, our work is really about making sure that whatever we come up with that we know if we can get the you know, like you said, if we can get our beyond our schools, places where we can really work with, support, make sure that those trainings and resources are available. They're certainly available on our website, but invitation to when we do our training, we're very welcoming in that respect. So we're trying to really look across and kind of almost create a continuum of services without thinking about the issue of observing or the issue of of, you know, being responsible for. Our our hope is that it's more about partnering Mhmm. More about support, and making sure that we keep our, you know, our different agencies involved in their their decisions so that by the time we get the kids, they're ready.

[Assemblymember Jennifer Lunsford]: Wonderful. And in my last thirty seconds, I noticed that the funding for the Rochester City School District Fiscal Monitor had been pulled. If you could comment on that.

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: Sure. It's something that we have come to expect obviously because in most districts where we see the success, we usually have, you know, fiscal monitor and instructional monitor. So yes, it's been pulled and we're hopeful that it can be restored.

[Assemblymember Jennifer Lunsford]: Excellent. I look forward to joining you in that fight.

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: Thank you.

[Senator Jim Tedisco]: What an honor that is to be introduced by an outstanding senator. Standing ovation. No, don't do. Thank you, senator. Commissioner, thank you for being here and thank you for your testimony and folks with you. We appreciate it. I know we've talked and I always say the sooner the better when we're talking about education and kids and we're talking about pre K, universal pre K and four year olds. There are some struggles and challenges with spaces and finding staffing, teachers, shortage of teachers. I'm also wondering, how many school districts right now actually are getting aid for three year old pre K programs? Are they in existence right now?

[Dr. Christina Coughlin, Chief Financial Officer, NYSED]: There are three year old programs that are funded by the state, but I don't have the number at the top of my head.

[Speaker 38.0]: Okay.

[Senator Jim Tedisco]: And how does that expand? Is there a plan to go statewide with three year old pre K as effective as we possibly can? Because I think, you know, not all kids maybe can be there at three year olds, but it's great if we have a the sooner the better, I think, really, when we start our educational process. What's the process for that expanding?

[Angelique Dingle Johnson, P-12 Deputy Commissioner, NYSED]: So thank you. So I think part of what the work that we're looking to do in working with OCFS is to truly figure out ways in which we can bridge together some of the work that we do to support our programs, whether they are UPK or their three ks programs. We know that our three ks programs are housed in the same places where there are four ks programs or UPK programs. And we do know that there are some challenges when it comes to the oversight. Because depending on where you're located, depending on where and how the funding is attributed to that school, there are some barriers that do create some problems for folks in order to continue to expand. But I do think that this new step of the funding that is coming in, looking to consolidate 36.02E and 36.02EE will be tremendously helpful for school districts and for their community based partners to help them work together to be able to maximize the amount of funding that they have. In closing, I will just say very briefly that in our work with OCFS, they have been tremendous partners in helping us to better understand the ways in which they operate and the laws that they're required to follow, which are a little bit different from ours. And it's that partnership that will truly help us get to a better place to be able to expand down to a three ks level.

[Senator Jim Tedisco]: And just one other question. Would you say that the most challenged areas for pre K in and of itself is the more rural areas in the state with spacing and teachers?

[Angelique Dingle Johnson, P-12 Deputy Commissioner, NYSED]: To be quite frank, I don't know if I would say that it's particularly only to rural areas because there are space issues located on Long Island. There are space issues in New York City and some of our other big five districts. So I think universally we know that space can be an issue for districts. We know that districts not being able to access funding that they need in a way that the laws are structured right now creates tremendous burdens on districts. And really, the commissioner spoke earlier about the partnership. Community based organizations, our early learning centers that do provide that type of child care for students, partnering and working together, again, is a way that I think that we will be able to get to a place of universal pre K.

[Senator Jim Tedisco]: Thank you so much. Thank you for your service.

[Senator Shelley B. Mayer, Chair, Senate Education Committee]: Thank you.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Thank you, Assemblywoman Jackson.

[Speaker 39.0]: Thank you, chair

[Speaker 40.0]: and commissioner. Always a pleasure to speak to you. Just want to point out that Lewis Morris, one of the signers of the Declaration of Independence, was in Mauritania, which is the Bronx, Westchester at the time. So Pardon,

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: ma'am, but we will go there.

[Speaker 39.0]: Okay, ma'am. Fine. Fine. Fine.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, Senate Finance Committee]: Fine. And

[Speaker 40.0]: so I just would love

[Dr. Christina Coughlin, Chief Financial Officer, NYSED]: to see the

[Speaker 40.0]: anniversary celebration funding go into The Bronx and talk about how black, Latino, and women have impacted our country.

[Dr. Christina Coughlin, Chief Financial Officer, NYSED]: I just

[Speaker 40.0]: want leave And that I want to shift to what steps are SED taking to address the teacher shortage in the state? And we know that there's a need for around 6,000 to 8,000 more teachers over the next three years. I see the governor is proposing $30,000,000 for teacher residency program. I'm just wondering, what is SED planning to increase our teachers?

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: So so let me just start by saying, as the co chair, from The Bronx, we make sure that, well, Brooklyn, the Brooklyn battle, all the other places are represented. New York City commission, the people who are, in terms of New York City commission, are doing a fabulous job in really a great deal of the work that they're doing to prepare for this. I just want to assure you that The Bronx is in the house. The other issue in terms of teacher recruitment, which is a huge challenge, teacher prep, teacher recruitment, and sustainability because recruiting is only part of the process. Retention is probably the more challenging issue. And so our focus is both on recruiting and retaining. And as part of professional development placement, that is obviously where brand new teachers can get the kind of support that they need to really develop and support our work. One of the ways is, which I think I know I have it in our presentation, is the support that we have seen a tremendous growth in teach.org.

[Dr. Jeffrey Matteson, Senior Deputy Commissioner, NYSED]: So the whole state is on this piece. It's great. We have a lot of partners, a lot of grow your own programs. The residency program is an important program. We have made five changes of certification to make it streamlined so people can get certified quicker. We've invested in modernization for our Office of Teaching Initiatives. They're much quicker in issuing and reviewing certification. And so we're anticipating more of the same as far as alternative pathways, trying to get people into the pipeline.

[Speaker 40.0]: Thank you.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Thank you. Senator Salazar? No, just passes. Senator Jackson.

[Speaker 41.0]: Well, you commissioner your staff for being here. I have a question. Under the law that's we're supposed to reduce class sizes and and build more schools is not enough. How much is it gonna take in order for that to come about, knowing that that's the law and that New York City has already, based on the city controller, basically said, is if $12,000,000,000 in the hole this year and 10,000,000,000 next year. How can we reach the goal of class size reduction so that every child will have an opportunity for sound basic education?

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: So, as a matter of fact, I approved the the report that New York City did up to this point, in terms of the, meeting their goals for now. There is a challenge getting to that 80%. I mean, that is a huge challenge from not only construction, but it's also a huge challenge in terms of staffing and having the appropriate staffing from looking at teaching. The one thing that worries me, and I've said this a few times, is with construction is where you have the overcrowding. You're going to, you know, see the construction assuming that we take into account your point about the, you know, the deficits that they currently I saw in yesterday's paper, in today's paper, and into next year. You're still going to have this on top of the deficit. But the construction piece that worries me is that new buildings are going to go to places, the poorest places, The Bronx and other places are not gonna get the new construction because they don't have you know, they've lost students. Right? And and so the new buildings are gonna end up the modernized new building, new structures are going to go into those places. But, again, to your point, we do we are gonna have a major difficulty getting to that 80%.

[Speaker 41.0]: Commissioner, I I just a last question. Why is mayoral control tied in the budget?

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: Is what?

[Speaker 41.0]: Why is mayoral control of the schools in New York City tied to the budget?

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: I I would probably I haven't I I don't know what the thinking is other than it is in the proposal by the governor, you know, to do the four years. And I think it was there last year. No. Ago. Two Sorry. Two years ago when I did the report.

[Speaker 41.0]: Thank you.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Thank you. I know the answer to that, but I won't share it publicly. Assemblywoman Buttenschon?

[Speaker 42.0]: Thank you, chair, and thank you to the commissioner and your team. Questions that my colleagues have asked prior to this, I agree with them as priorities. But I will move on to identify, as Assembly Member Clark talked about the collaboration, you had many new initiatives. But without that collaboration, clearly, our families will suffer. But my question is building on an understanding of the teacher shortage. Does it still exist? How big of it is it within a burden to your team? And I know you have different initiatives. There was money that was removed through our teachers resource centers for continuing to ensure retention. Could you just talk a little bit about what your needs are as you explain that shortage level that we're seeing statewide?

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: Yeah. I think the teacher shortage, again, keep in mind that if we're looking at teachers for, you know, in the universal pre K, we are

[Senator Shelley B. Mayer, Chair, Senate Education Committee]: going to need staffing.

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: We need staffing in the class size. We need staffing clearly as we even go into many of the initiatives that we are advancing that in order to think about CTE, you know, so we are kind of doing this kind of work along the whole higher ed, which you will hear us at higher ed, looking at flexibilities in that space. That's one way to address it. Another way is many of the programs, Grow Your Own. You know, many of the programs that we have put in place to recruit individuals into the profession. And in addition to that, we really have to also think about retaining. I love second career, as you know. Seen many of those kinds of situations. Second career individuals that are coming in and making that easier, more flexible, more affordable. And so these are some of the issues that we're addressing this in multiple ways in order to do this kind of

[Hearing Clerk/Staff (unidentified)]: thing.

[Speaker 42.0]: So my question, if you could provide what that shortage is statewide, as well as as you're planning for those new initiatives. And as you look at the resources that we have placed and seen in the executive budget, are there further resources that you need?

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: Absolutely.

[Speaker 42.0]: And I understand you don't have it this morning. But I thank you for traveling across the state. And I know Bronx is near and dear, but the Mohawk Valley is in the house. Thank you.

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: And I'm always there with you

[Speaker 42.0]: guys Yes, are. Thank you.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, Senate Finance Committee]: Senator Dan Stack.

[Speaker 43.0]: Thank you. Good morning, Commissioner Rosa. It's great to see you. You and I have had a number of conversations about the Mohawk Elementary School over the past One couple of of the items that we've been discussing is the need for the school to be moved away from the St. Regis River due to the dangers of flooding and rising groundwater. And for my colleagues who might not be aware, being a nation school, any of their funding has to go through us. It's not up to the public referendum. A good part of the structure of the elementary school is over 100 years old. And the school's a football field from the St. Regis River and it's flooded a couple times. I know you visited there a few times. I appreciate that, as have I. My question is simply, what do we as the legislature and you from the state ed department need to do to make sure the elementary school students of the St. Regis Mohawk tribe have a safe place to go to school?

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: Sure. So I've had it in my written testimony. I had it this morning. I totally agree that the funding needs to be there in order to support our indigenous nation.

[Speaker 43.0]: I really appreciate that. I only have three minutes. I have one other topic I wanna touch on briefly again, electric bus mandate. And I represent 48 different school districts in the North Country.

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: Okay.

[Speaker 43.0]: And we all know what the weather's been lately everywhere, but in particular the North Country. But again, the buses are very expensive. The infrastructure for these schools is very expensive. Affordability is a big issue statewide. Grants are still tax dollars. I know a lot of my school people say, well, there's grants, but, you know, they're still tax dollars.

[Dr. Christina Coughlin, Chief Financial Officer, NYSED]: Mhmm.

[Speaker 43.0]: We had 20 degree below zero temperatures last week and several several days this week will be sub zero again. In the North Country, these are long bus runs, so the range is and the temperature is just is still a huge concern there that it may not be in other parts of the state. The schools have said that they have more they need more buses to do the work of the existing fleet because of the charging times. It takes more buses. So it's it's very inefficient. Nonstandard charging technology from bus manufacturers, so it's a planning nightmare for the the the the people that operate the buses. One local superintendent told me that they can't undercoat the buses because of the batteries. So now they're finding out that they're rusting faster. Again, these are things that we're learning as we start to implement this.

[Speaker 44.0]: Mhmm.

[Speaker 43.0]: And the ISO just reported, you know, last week, we we had the energy hearing yesterday. We talked an awful lot about the grid and the grid's ability to handle everything. And ISO had some significant charge challenges last week because of the cold. So, I mean, my question or my appeal is, can we acknowledge that we're a very diverse state geographically when it comes to our busing needs and the realities of the current technologies and get away from a one size fits all approach to this policy. Either a pause, one thing, but just roll it out where it makes sense. If it makes more sense in a more densely populated area that doesn't have gigantic bus runs, you know, can we please embrace that?

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: Yes.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Thank you, Commissioner. You. Assemblywoman Pheffer Amato.

[Assemblymember Stacey Pheffer Amato]: Thank you, Chair. Good afternoon. Commissioner, we in the legislature and with the leadership of the governor have allocated great opportunities for grants for our non public schools. NPSE for security, MST for STEM instruction. However, they're at least two years behind in reimbursing the schools. Many of these schools run on very tight margins with large part of the school body on scholarship. These payment delays make it very difficult for their cash flow having to wait two years to get reimbursed for the costs they have laid out. Many of the students are on scholarships. What is the department's plan to expedite and help this backlog?

[Dr. Christina Coughlin, Chief Financial Officer, NYSED]: Thank you, Assembly Member. As you may recall, I've worked with the religious and independent schools for years. And I've been working with that office more recently. And I can tell you they've put a great deal of work into expediting those grants. And we reported earlier that with the NPSC, are still a little bit behind. But in the last several months, we've moved from 10% or 15% reviewed to 83. And so we've been taking a look at the process and sort of looking very closely at how we do our reviews, how we can speed it up. We've brought in additional staff to assist with that. And I think the progress we've made is it's clearly helped us with this stream. And we're very mindful that the governor's added another $20,000,000 to that program in her budget. So we're mindful that we're going to need to keep the band together on this. But more importantly, I think our process is better now. And so I expect that you'll see that as we catch up in NPSC, we'll also be able to make good progress in those other grants that you referred to.

[Assemblymember Stacey Pheffer Amato]: And I thank you for that. I'm aware of the effort for what's the current, but it's that backlog, right? And as the demand becomes on paperwork and personnel changes, you know, how can we make that, you know, two for the current back the backlog to get that caught up? It's just old money and it's not you know, it's it's they need the money. Yeah. And that's all I'm gonna say. And how can I help you in this process?

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: Is And it I think the key thing and our staff has pointed this out is, like, a lot of times we also have questions because the way, you know, the forms and things are filled out. So it's the back and forth sometimes that also creates some of this. So I think making sure that they they provide, you know, the kind of information we need right away and right you know, and it's done correctly is helpful as well. So training, getting involved with some of the training would be

[Assemblymember Stacey Pheffer Amato]: But I think it's the back and forth that adds the time so there's such old

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: 100%

[Assemblymember Stacey Pheffer Amato]: we took from COVID to catch up. Again, I'll offer whatever we could do to help it if it's fussing down or working within an office to get that backlog. But some of the small schools are really just hurting in that cash flow area. I just ask anything that I could do to help that process go out, I'll offer you.

[Dr. Christina Coughlin, Chief Financial Officer, NYSED]: Thank you.

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: Thank you.

[Speaker 39.0]: I wasn't aware of it either.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, Senate Finance Committee]: Good. Well, hello again. And we have for your attention Senator Salazar. No, we don't have oh, because you were the city, not I just did what you told me not to do. Of course I did.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: I did it also because

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, Senate Finance Committee]: Okay. Senator Martinez?

[Speaker 45.0]: Good morning, Commissioner. Good morning. Good morning. First of all, thank you for being here, for always supporting our students, but also our teachers and administrators. Thank you for your support for community schools and CTE programs. I wanted to raise a concern that has been brought to my attention by many parents in my region alone, and those are our homeschooled children. There is a confusion between school districts across the region and sometimes across the state. Currently, in order for a student to be placed on homeschool, the districts have to give them an approved curriculum. What we are seeing is that some of these students, at the end of their completion of high school, are not getting the letter of substantial equivalency. This is preventing some of our students to go into higher ed schools in the state of New York and we are seeing them leave. Now, for whatever choice the family made for these children to be homeschooled, whether it was bullying, whether it was mental health, or just a parent's choice, These students need some sort of direction. These parents need direction. And some school districts are providing the letter of equivalency, some are not. And then there's the confusion. What can the department do to assist our school districts to provide a better process, streamline this process for our students?

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: Okay. Do you want to Go ahead. Yeah.

[Dr. Jeffrey Matteson, Senior Deputy Commissioner, NYSED]: This was an issue that came up last legislative session. There was we provided some technical assistance of some legislation. I don't think it went very far at that time. So I don't think there was consensus in the field or SED on that exact piece of legislation. But I think we are going to take back your thoughts and especially this challenge of we can't have two different standards in the field at the same time and look at our regulations. And we should have a conversation.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Assemblywoman Livenberg.

[Speaker 46.0]: Good morning. Thank you so much for being here and for your testimony and for all of you and all you do every day for our students throughout New York State. Just for point of reference, as I'm sure you know, I represent parts of Westchester and a little bit of Putnam. I have been approached about a couple of issues that I wanted to bring to your attention. One of them has to do with UPK funding and how some of these outside providers that provide childcare. I know we heard a couple of issues, I think, that somebody member Clark brought up. But another one is about the requirement of certified teachers for the UPK kids. Some kids in a class may get funding from UPK, but you might have five kids that are getting UPK funding in a childcare classroom and the others aren't. And that requires now a certified teacher for the whole class. It's complicated. I just wanted to bring it to your attention. The other thing is many of these, the childcare providers that are doing UPK for school districts needing certified teachers don't have access to OLAS. They are requesting that they could get access to OLAS so that they could also have, the ability to get those child care provider I'm sorry, the certified teachers. The other thing I just wanted to talk about is charter schools, and I just want to put a big sign over my head. No vouchers. I am totally against vouchers. Just so you know, I think that it's destroyed school districts, and it serves the wrong it serves the wrong, folks, unfortunately, the way that it that it's worked in other in other, states. But I also wanted to say that about charter schools. I was approached by a district, that is getting a bill for over a $100,000 for a couple kids that are going to a charter school in New York City, and they are in Westchester County. So the Westchester County taxpayers are having to pay for a kid to go to a charter school in New York City. That ain't right. Something's amiss, and the way that charter schools are funded is not right. And I also wanted to just put in a plug for hoping that SED can oversee all of the charter school applications and not just half of them. Having it split between SUNY and you guys, it just doesn't make any sense. It needs and and there seems to be a lack of oversight, from SUNY and understanding. So that's not their expertise. It's yours. And I think that, it should all be with you. So I just wanted to put in a plug for that as well and just bring those issues to your attention

[Hearing Clerk/Staff (unidentified)]: if you

[Speaker 46.0]: haven't already heard of them.

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: So for the New York for the students that you're talking about with New York City, if we can just get together and I can that's, get more that's something I want to take a look at.

[Speaker 47.0]: That would be helpful.

[Speaker 46.0]: Thank you. You.

[Chancellor Kumar Samuels, NYC Department of Education]: Senator?

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, Senate Finance Committee]: And we're going to have Senator Tom O'Mara.

[Senator Tom O’Mara, Senate Republican Ranker]: Good morning. Thank you for your testimony today. Just a few questions. You know, concerns over the foundation aid, 69% of the schools are only getting 1%. And the very vast majority of the schools in Upstate New York that are rural are at that 1%. That 1% isn't even going to cover their increase in energy costs that have gone up, let alone electric buses. The I see there's language in the governor's proposals to make green energy projects at schools building aid reimbursable, But that does not include electric school buses. Electric school buses is going to be the largest unfunded mandate we've ever put upon our school districts. And it's going to crush the real property taxpayer, which is already being crushed by this. Now we've asked before and never really gotten an answer in prior years what the ramifications will be for a school district not moving ahead with their electric buses. And I'm hoping maybe you gave us a little insight to that earlier when you said to a question, the community has to vote. So does that mean that the community votes no? They can proceed with their diesel buses.

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: J. You know, I think what I said was that the community has to vote.

[Hearing Clerk/Staff (unidentified)]: J. What

[Senator Tom O’Mara, Senate Republican Ranker]: if they vote no?

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: J. If they vote no, then I don't think we have legally we know what the law says. From our perspective go ahead, Dan. I don't think we have any levers in terms of sanctions.

[Speaker 48.0]: I think that as the legislature could consider what it believes to be an appropriate remedy for that. It would be more appropriate than the department taking that in our own hands.

[Senator Tom O’Mara, Senate Republican Ranker]: So there is no ramification under the law right now as it exists. Is that what you're saying?

[Speaker 48.0]: There are remedies for any certain violations of any provision of the education law. But some are different from others. Some might be submitting an online portal, which is not something we want to remove school board officers or withhold funds for, while some are civil rights protections that are more substantial. But

[Senator Tom O’Mara, Senate Republican Ranker]: what if the voters in the school district vote no to the electric bus proposals? What's the ramification?

[Speaker 48.0]: Again, think that there's no black and white answer. And I think it would be helpful to have the legislature's consensus on that question as this was a legislative initiative.

[Senator Tom O’Mara, Senate Republican Ranker]: Not a very well thought out one and a very expensive one. Now back to the 1% for 69% of the school districts increase in aid, what do you anticipate the impact to be to those real property taxpayers in those districts?

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: I think that in the districts, you know, I mean, obviously the four sixty to 69% that are impacted, I've been in communication with many of the superintendents and everything from having challenges in implementing programs, challenges I mean, some of them have challenges with even the cost of health care, making choices about programmatic, instructional, as to your point, many of these issues. So we are clearly hopeful that we can work through the issue of that 1%.

[Senator Tom O’Mara, Senate Republican Ranker]: Does massively increasing property taxes impact the affordability of people living in New York State?

[Dr. Jeffrey Matteson, Senior Deputy Commissioner, NYSED]: Well, commissioner could speak well of this because of how much property tax she's probably paying in her own. But we know that it does, right? Because these people move to communities for the real estate and for

[Speaker 49.0]: their

[Dr. Jeffrey Matteson, Senior Deputy Commissioner, NYSED]: schools. And if one is overbalanced from the other, the entire economy for that local community can be affected. So high property taxes in this state has been an issue for a long time. Obviously, we've had some offset through state action in the past. But maybe we need to talk about overall this funding with a 1% increase from you didn't have a corresponding loss of 1% of your expenses.

[Senator Tom O’Mara, Senate Republican Ranker]: The the voters are are voting with their feet, and they're leaving the state. And one of the most significant issues is the high property taxes, school districts, school taxes being the highest of all. Thank you, Senator.

[Senator Jabari Brisport]: Thank you.

[Speaker 50.0]: Good afternoon, Commissioner.

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: Good afternoon.

[Speaker 51.0]: I just want to put my support behind your efforts to continue the teach.org connection and teacher recruitment. I know I've been working with your offices to kind of push that and I I agree that more than 500,000 would be very prudent for that program to continue as it is yielding a lot of success and outcomes.

[Chancellor Kumar Samuels, NYC Department of Education]: Thank you.

[Speaker 51.0]: But my question is more to do around recess. We've had quite a few folks in my community that are advocating for mandated recess. I had an opportunity over the Christmas break to travel with my son. I witnessed a school where they had phys ed every day. And it had significant outcomes with children. I just wanted your thoughts on mandating recess. And then my second question has to do with cell phones and social media. I know that a lot of countries right now are contemplating, I know The UK, I know France, and after Australia, banning social media at 14 years of age. I know that's not really the purview because we've done a cell phone ban in the schools, but just your professional opinion on the outcomes of that and if that's warranted here in the state of New York.

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: Sure. So we've had conversations. The the issue that we you know, you mentioned the PE, which is usually a very structured type of response

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: The next one is your

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: entry point. Because it's in you know, it's obviously in the elementary. It's required if you look, you know, your middle school and high school. So PE has its place in the standards and has its place. Recess is an opportunity for children, a lot of times, to go outside or to

[Speaker 51.0]: No, I'm advocating for the free play without structure, So you I was just saying, I've seen some schools in

[Hearing Clerk/Staff (unidentified)]: that space.

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: So the issue is the negotiated amount of time that we have with our children. Sure. And particularly, you know, on the one hand, we are trying very much to use all of our time, you know, obviously to give our children art, music. Holidays get in the way as well, as And you also, the specific issue about making sure that these children, from an academic perspective, are doing we are supporting them. When we start to stretch the rubber band, go beyond PE, and also add the recess and I've had these conversations with the union and others. I you know, it's like anything else. What gives? You know, children do go home, and a lot of times, they go to you know, they they do have recess. And so it's challenging in many ways to add that on, on top of everything else that we have to do in the short amount

[Speaker 51.0]: of No, get that. And as an educator, I experience our day. But I know that that break up and that self play is

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: so important. So I like the phys ed part of it. And while I think the recess is important, a lot of our schools built that already into it. Wouldn't

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Thank you very much, Assemblywoman Simon.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, Senate Finance Committee]: Thank

[Speaker 52.0]: you and good morning, Commissioner and everybody. I feel like I just talked to you the other day.

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: We did.

[Speaker 52.0]: So thank you. And I was pleased to see your support for Foundation Aid, including addressing the needs of children who are homeless and special education. As you know, Senator Liu and I have a bill that includes also addressing this formula for students who are in foster care because that sometimes, of course, those are also children who have special needs, etcetera, etcetera. And so I'm curious about what you think about adjusting the formula to include that. I also want to just say that even with the formula last year, as you know, New York City ended up getting less money under the new formula than it had gotten before and how we can address that need because that need remains. Even if we don't tweak the other things, that need remains. And I wanted to talk about that. And then I have one other thing. There's a couple of things I'd like to talk to you about offline. One is talking about language development and literacy training in zero to three. But also, as mental health tier, the governor has supported teen mental health training. It's clearly gonna happen through the high schools. So I'm curious what conversations you've had with the mental health powers that be

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: Sure.

[Speaker 52.0]: To implement something like that.

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: Sure. So let me start, on the mental health. Let me just start with that one. Is that we've had an incredible amazing relationship with OMH, whether it's, you know, through some of the conversations we have, the two commissioners. I think we've got a a great deal. We called, as you know, an incredible program. We are constantly working with them because we realize with mental health across the board is so critical to educating our children. It is a partnership in social emotional as well as mental health. So we really have an amazing partnership with Commissioner Sullivan in terms of not only sharing resources, sharing ideas, sharing ways that we really truly come together. And I know that in our own staff is constantly working closely with to come up with whether it's in community schools, whether it's, the kinds of programs that we are embedding and centers into into this kind of work. So going back to the other question, to your, you know, your your point about the the board of regents, in a very thoughtful kind of way, you know, looked at the increase that we needed for waiting. And and we we look

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Thank you very much, assembly. I know it is.

[Senator Shelley B. Mayer, Chair, Senate Education Committee]: Later. Thank you.

[Speaker 28.0]: Hi there, Commissioner and team. Nice to see you. I'm over here. Welcome. I wanted to go back to an issue that we've discussed in previous years, and that's the digital equity and inclusion topic, which SED really led the way on about four years ago with a series of webinars that you did that were even bigger than the education space. But wondering if I could get your read on how we're doing with the school districts around the state providing digital literacy and devices to school kids, which districts sort of struggle on their own to figure out a path to do this, and they do it in different ways. But any update on where SED is? And I'd just do a shout out to your library team and Lauren Moore, because they've done some great work, did a few rounds of grants that you were able to get some federal money. It's so important. It's in a few different spaces. But the floor is yours.

[Angelique Dingle Johnson, P-12 Deputy Commissioner, NYSED]: Okay. I think I'll start us off. So to address your first question, we do request and actually ask parents to complete a survey that lets us know what type of connectivity they have at home. It all stems from going back to COVID times when we suddenly were thrust into a situation where we needed to provide one to one devices to all students in order to maintain some type of educational connection with those children. And what we did find out was startling. It was a little concerning that we realized that there are certain areas where there is not internet capabilities or where it is not stable. We learned that there are areas where there are families that don't have enough devices for children in order to engage in online instruction during that time. However, fast forwarding a few years later, we have released our computer science and digital literacy standards. Those are there and are in place. Our own standards do include teaching about safe online use in addition to the proper ways to engage when in social media spaces. And also, additionally, our Smart Start grant, I will say, has been hugely successful where we've been able to pull in teachers from across the state, allow them to develop lessons to help other teachers who may not be quite sure how to go about teaching some of these topics. And I know currently we have over 1,000 resources that are listed for teachers and schools to utilize as well.

[Speaker 28.0]: One little follow-up question as time is running out there. For the survey that you wanted school districts to use, how good was the compliance of school districts in getting that out and getting the information back to you?

[Angelique Dingle Johnson, P-12 Deputy Commissioner, NYSED]: I can follow-up with your office afterwards.

[Speaker 28.0]: Great. Thank you.

[Chancellor Kumar Samuels, NYC Department of Education]: Thank you,

[Speaker 49.0]: chair. Thank you, commissioner and your staff for being here. You must be getting near the end if they're allowing me to ask questions. But you know my experience. Forty years in K-twelve classrooms. Forty years. Also, the training which I'm going to make reference to, I have personally taken myself as an adult. And that is what was just referred to by Assemblywoman Simon. And that is that this teen mental health first aid training. And here's why it affects you. The executive proposes $17,500,000 to expand teen mental health first aid training program to be available to all tenth grade students in the state. Now, you know that teachers are mandatory reporters. So if a student comes to me in the classroom and says that they're having an issue or if they point to somebody else and say they're having an issue, I have to report that. But I'm going to make an assumption here. There's very few schools that I know of that have mental health evaluators in them that can handle that situation. And I can tell you in every one of my schools right now, those if that grew to that case where it now went to administrator, that student would have to go to an emergency room, Okay? And we've had students sitting in emergency rooms for thirty six days waiting to be evaluated. So the question comes down, did the governor consult you about this program? Do we understand the ramifications of this program as it's being directed to tenth grade students? And finally, well, another one is do you realize that this is certified trainers? They have to have certified trainers for this specific course. As I said, I took this course because I really care about the mental health of the students and someone like that. And my final question would be, wouldn't the 17,500,000 be better going to the training of the teachers in this regard instead of to tenth graders?

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: So, I mean, in in usually in startups, in programs coming in, we usually want to make sure, to your point, that we train our teachers. I mean, that's a good investment partly because they're going to be dealing they're on the front line, so they're going to be dealing with that. But also training our counselors as well because a lot of times they also are the ones that have relationships with our young people as well. I think that my sense is that I would have to double check with our staff whether they were involved in any conversation about why the tenth graders were selected. I could not, at this point, give you an answer why tenth grade. I was a high school principal. I was a middle school principal. I'm sure there's some kind of decision and research that they did. I hope there was.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Thank you. Assemblyman Chang.

[Speaker 53.0]: Thank you, chair. Thank you, chancellor. It's two and a half hours. Endurance, dear. Thank you. A question in your prepared statement on New York inspires and graduation. And your ask is $5,100,000 It's not a whole lot compared to the whole budget. But reading it, I really don't understand exactly what it is. You have decades and decades of experience of getting teachers and students to the milestone of getting graduation. So, don't understand what's this money for, this $5,100,000 to enhance, not lower or to enhance your learning what do you call it? Authenticity of learning while maintaining statewide guardrail consistency and equity? What's this 5.1? Was it new equipment, teachers, new training, or

[Speaker 48.0]: Sure. What

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: is a small amount of money because we have been doing a lot of this on our own. And the participation from the commission, we had a commission in place with 12 recommendations. And the 12 recommendations are now being advanced. So we need support for the field to really begin to take those recommendations and begin to and we've got pilot programs going on. So the 5.1 is really a small investment on trying to support the field as they many of them are already doing this work. But doing it with our support through professional development, through resources, through our standards work. I mean, we obviously have to update our standards. We have got to create resources like the briefs that we do to really support, you know, the work moving forward. When our teachers are looking at multiple ways, that's the kind of work that we really need. You know, we need financial support in order to make sure that as we do our hybrid professional development statewide that we can afford to bring in experts as we have done with mathematics. Lohenberg is one of them, as we have done in the bilingual spaces. These are researchers that are coming in and supporting us with advancing the kind of work that we have to do in terms of New York Inspires.

[Speaker 53.0]: I mean, don't you have in house experts? I mean, you have a budget so large for Yeah, Department of

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: you would be surprised that in some of this, we may only have two or three people working on you know, it it seems that remember, this is an institution. Our agency does everything from 56 professions, museums, you know, own schools, School for the Blind. We have teacher certification. I mean, it is massive. It is not your traditional, you know, k through 12 type of situation. As a matter of fact, many of our our staff, they wear multiple hats.

[Speaker 53.0]: Thank you very much.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, commissioner. I'm going take a couple of seconds. I'm not going to use my full ten minutes. First of all, I want to ask, well, how's your son? Last we met, he had an issue. So he's Okay?

[Hearing Clerk/Staff (unidentified)]: Sure.

[Speaker 54.0]: Good.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: A lot of things have been bouncing around in my head and listening to all of the questions. And I think what Assemblywoman Levenberg had to say about charter schools is most prominent right now on my mind.

[Hearing Clerk/Staff (unidentified)]: I

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: like to talk and speak in stories. So let's make ice cream. You make ice cream, I make ice cream. But you get to send the bad fruit back because it didn't work with your ice cream. But I have to use everything it's sent to me, my ingredients. And we're expected to come up with the same product. And that's how I look at charter schools right now. They take students where they send a lot of them back. And my understanding is they don't send back the tuition that was sent with them from the school district. I've confronted them even last year. The charter schools swear that they send all the money back. Every school district says they do not send the money back. Is there a rule, a hard and fast rule, as to whether the money should be sent back or not? And if it is, when is it sent back?

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: Sure. Dan, I think Go ahead.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Nobody knows.

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: No, no, no, no. We do. I mean, in terms we of have the beds that are done. We have the October date. We have the yeah.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: That might be the problem.

[Dr. Christina Coughlin, Chief Financial Officer, NYSED]: They're not paid for the full year if the student doesn't attend for the full year. So if the students attend for half a year, the charter school would be eligible to have half a year's worth of tuition, not the entire year.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: So it's prorated?

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: Right. It's not full year payment upfront or there are payment schedules as we you know, and so if the student comes back at a certain point, we do look at it in terms of, you know, now the student is no longer at that school. It is back to

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Now if the if a charter school claims that they pick student via lottery, would it be legitimate for us to mandate that they must keep that student that they picked and not have the availability of sending them back to their home district?

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: That is okay. So like many the public school system has to keep the kid unless it's a special needs and it's being placed in a in a different setting. Charters have, the way the law is written, have a right to return students.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Okay, the operative word there then is how the law is written, which means the law can be rewritten. And I I think that's something that that should be addressed at this legislative session, because I I don't think that it's fair to the taxpayers of any district that has charter schools or whether whether their young people are being sent out of district and the district is paying for it. I just don't think that that that it's fair. Right. Transportation, the young senator Steck had talked about the electric buses. I know the North Country is cold up there and batteries don't work very well in the cold. And I don't know how that's going to work out. Do you think now the companies that provide transportation are increasing their rates to pay for these new school buses that they're mandated to provide? Or is the expenses that they're claiming real expenses for the current time?

[Dr. Jeffrey Matteson, Senior Deputy Commissioner, NYSED]: I'd say it's a simple economic issue where there was an anticipation of a lot more demand early on. And then with the withdrawal of some federal money that was going to be used for grants to help get some of these buses being held back, they've got to try to recoup some of their costs. And if there's not a high demand, there's going to be an increasing cost because they need to make the profit to pay for what they've set up in anticipating a larger demand of buses. So I think it really is a simple economic issue right now.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Okay. So basically, prices the increases are baked in. Alrighty. And I also my understanding that many of these operators don't have the facilities to do repairs of the buses because the lifts that they have in place aren't capable of lifting the heavier school buses. So they have to really increase their entire infrastructure just to service the buses. And of course, anyone that's gone past a facility where school buses are parked, they're parked usually three inches apart from each other. I don't know how they do that, but they somehow manage. But if there are charging stations now built in, there's going to be another space requirement that we're to have to do. All of this, I'm saying, is because it's going to build in the cost of operating school buses, which then is charged to the school districts, which then, of course, gets transferred to the taxpayers. And as someone said earlier, people are leaving the state because of high school taxes. I represent two troubled school districts. I believe they're going to testify later today. And both of them, the schools are being underfunded. And the individuals, especially the Mount Vernon side, always complaining that they're paying 30x thousand dollars per student and not getting what they are paying for. So that's a problem. That's all I wanted to ramble on about. But I thank you for all that you do. Thank you.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, Senate Finance Committee]: And Senator John Liu, chair of New York City gets five excuse me, three follow-up minutes.

[Senator John C. Liu, Chair, Senate NYC Education Committee]: What happened with the new guy on the clock? Forget it. I I withdraw that comment. I'm sorry. Thank you, madam chair. Thank you, Madam Commissioner, for spending hours with us once again. The teacher recruitment program, is I that know it's a statewide program, but would that potentially help New York City recruit teachers? Also, is that a program that's more geared for the rest of the state?

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: Yeah. We work closely with New York City. And so if somebody applies to teach.org and it's a New York City recruitment, I mean, obviously, yes, it does benefit New York City.

[Senator John C. Liu, Chair, Senate NYC Education Committee]: Okay. Because, as you know, we need more teachers in New York City in particular. And you had responded to Senator Jackson's questions about reducing class sizes. It sounded like you had some dose of skepticism about the efficacy or perhaps even the fairness of building schools in areas of the city that are not necessarily that are that are overcrowded but not necessarily considered poor areas. Do you doubt the need to build schools in order to reduce overcrowded class sizes in those areas of the city?

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: No. I I doubt the fact that if we're thinking about equity from the perspective of where we build, what is the basis of building a new building and if we base it just basically on class size and we don't think about that poor kids in other areas do deserve brand new schools, then it's an equity issue. I'm not I'm not saying that we don't build them where we need them. I'm saying that as we look at this across I board

[Assemblymember Michael R. Benedetto, Chair, Assembly Education Committee]: mean Yeah.

[Senator John C. Liu, Chair, Senate NYC Education Committee]: Understand newer schools are newer than older schools.

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: Absolutely. And the poor communities keep in other words, we keep building newer schools, more more state of the art schools in certain communities that benefit from that and the poorest communities are

[Senator John C. Liu, Chair, Senate NYC Education Committee]: not Clearly, going we need to upgrade old buildings that are not well equipped to teach the modern student.

[Speaker 52.0]: But

[Senator John C. Liu, Chair, Senate NYC Education Committee]: reducing class size is part and parcel to providing a sound basic education Right. In the state's

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: But I think the issue is construction of new buildings. So reduced class size has its opportunity to figure out what are the ways that we reduce class size but also

[Senator John C. Liu, Chair, Senate NYC Education Committee]: The way I see it after many years of looking at this, you have in order to reduce class sizes in New York City, you need more teachers but you also need more classroom space. Correct. You need the classroom space in the areas of the city that are just overcrowded.

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: Right. But you also need you also have to take a look at that because what happened

[Senator John C. Liu, Chair, Senate NYC Education Committee]: Thank you.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, Senate Finance Committee]: Senator Cordell Clear.

[Senator Cordell Cleare]: Okay. Right. Good afternoon. Thank you for being here with us this morning and afternoon. I just have, like, a little bit of a follow-up to the last question, and I want to know, have we looked at the impact that colocations have on traditional schools trying to meet the class reduction standards because it is those poorer areas that tend to get heavily co located.

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: Thank you. Thank you for that. So that goes along with the same question, the same response. But also, I think I signed the colocations that New York City sends up, you know, because it's it's an automatic. I have to sign them, pay for it. It's not even it's not even negotiated. It's automatic because the state pays for it. And so, you know, the whole colocation sometimes what happens is in certain areas, you're not gonna have that colocation. They're gonna go find buildings that they can then use. So that's why I'm saying about this. The complexity of this issue is not just looking at it in an isolated kind of way. You have to look at it where the colocation happens, the impact of the colocation versus not having colocation in other places because now you have to share, you know, all the facilities and everything else. So I look at this in a much more comprehensive and when we do our reports and when we do our analysis, we look at the impact of the quality of education from the facilities to the resources to the colocation to the staffing. Because if I have a staff that's in this place and this opens up because of a class size now reduction and I live in that particular community, well, chances are that we've got to have things in place to prevent the poaching of teachers from one community to another. So I do think that we we have to look at the equity issue in this kind of a situation across the board. And that is something that I'm very much committed to, to make sure that our communities deserve, all children deserve the kind of quality education in the quality facilities, in the quality of instructional, and in the quality of staffing across the board. And that is my commitment.

[Senator Cordell Cleare]: I'm back on. Oh, there we go. Really follow-up with you in your office because I just feel all these co locations are sabotaging, further sabotaging schools that are already facing homelessness, foster care, all of these issues. And on top of that, we have class size that we can't even meet the standards based on the number of co locations that take place.

[Speaker 28.0]: Thank you.

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: Thank you.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Thank you. Assemblyman Benedetto.

[Assemblymember Michael R. Benedetto, Chair, Assembly Education Committee]: Yes. Commissioner, thank you so much for sitting here for such a long time and taking all these questions. And you know, I would be remiss if I don't speak of, since we're talking American Revolution and history of New York, that we omit, and don't forget the battle of Glovis Rock in Pelham Bay Park, which stopped the advancement of the of the British troops and allowed Washington to escape and and probably save the American revolution. But just one last question, Okay? And help me I admit my ignorance in this. Special ed has changed so much over the years. Originally, I guess it was 4.9 years of age to 21 years of age, and that was expanded and eventually settled in at 2.9 years of age. And then it expanded again, during COVID to 22. Okay? And I believe it was because of the co at least, I thought it was because of the COVID nineteen epidemic, but that now seems to be codified in some way that we definitely go to. Just explain to me what happened there.

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: Yeah. It's illegal. Okay. So the legal I'm going start it.

[Speaker 49.0]: Sure. Go ahead. Yeah.

[Speaker 12.0]: So this is actually based on a legal case that started in Connecticut. And the issue was that educational services were provided up to the age of 22. And therefore, should for non disabled students, therefore, they should be available to students with disabilities. New York does the same thing. We have adult education programs that run up to the age of 22. Therefore, they should be available to students with disabilities. The issue is this is going to be a significant cost for school districts. And so we need funding to support

[Assemblymember Michael R. Benedetto, Chair, Assembly Education Committee]: I appreciate. Thank you.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Well, since we're dealing with the battle of the battles of the Revolutionary War, let's not forget that great church in the city of Mount Vernon, St. Paul's, where the Peter Zenger trial was held in the birthplace of freedom of the press.

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: And Rockland with Andre.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Commissioner, that is the end of this your section of the hearing. I appreciate for everything that you've done. I appreciate all of you for sitting through this and spending your time with us today. And the next person I'm going to call up is the chancellor of the New York City Department of Education, Kamar Samuels. Lucienne, how are you?

[Assemblymember Michael R. Benedetto, Chair, Assembly Education Committee]: I'm doing good.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Can we settle down, please?

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, Senate Finance Committee]: Yes. We're in school.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: The next person to testify is the chancellor of the New York City Department of Education, Kumar Samuels. And, mister Samuels, before your time starts, could you just briefly introduce the people that are surrounding you just so we know who we're looking at? Yes.

[Chancellor Kumar Samuels, NYC Department of Education]: Okay. Great. We have our first deputy chancellor, our CFO, Sarita Scott, and we have our deputy chancellor for special education multilingual learners, Christina Foti, and then our early childhood deputy chancellor, Simone Hawkins.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: J. Thank you. Okay, now you can start the clock. J.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, Senate Finance Committee]: Oh, wait. I'm sorry. Just want to introduce a few senators.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: J. Oh, Okay.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, Senate Finance Committee]: Sorry. J. Hi. Welcome from New York City. And we have a few new senators that have joined us, Senator Bailey and Senator Purcell. And we also have Senator Maher, the education chair, Senator John Liu, the New York City education chair Senator Cordell Clear Senator Robert Jackson We have Senator Chang and Senator Todisco, the education ranker, and also Senator Chang is the New York City committee ranker. Just letting you know everybody here. You can either do this

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: I did not get a fresh list, so I will wait until I do get one. Chancellor, you join.

[Chancellor Kumar Samuels, NYC Department of Education]: Good afternoon, senate and assembly committee members. Thank you to chairs Krueger, Fred Lowe, mayor Lou Benedetto, and the senate and assembly leadership. I am grateful for this opportunity to testify on the proposed 2027 New York State education budget alongside key members of my team. My name is Kumar Samuels, I'm honored to serve in the Mamdani administration as a chancellor of the New York City Public Schools. For over twenty years, I've worked on behalf of students, families, students and families starting as a New York City teaching fellow in The Bronx and continuing as a principal, deputy superintendent, and superintendent in The Bronx, Brooklyn, and Manhattan. In these roles, I've reduced chronic absenteeism, expanded international baccalaureate programs, and improved literacy outcomes, and more. I'm also I'm also the proud parent of two NY CPS students. These experiences have shaped my vision for our system, that every school should be academic academically rigorous, safe, and truly integrated, reflecting the beautiful diversity of our city. This diversity is not only about who is in the room, it is also about the holistic experience and including the culturally responsive classrooms, exposure to a multitude of perspectives, and teaching that addresses the strengths and needs of all learners. When it comes to academic rigor, we've begun to turn the tide on historically low and unacceptable literacy and math outcomes. In 2025, thanks to New York City Reads, we saw a 7.2 increase in reading gains. We also grew 3.5 percentage points in math. This acceleration can and must continue, and we must deepen our commitment to New York City Reads and Sells. Additionally, our student pathways work continues to thrive with 179 future ready NYC schools and more than 300 career and technical education programs. As a parent of a high schooler, as a former math teacher, and having led the rollout of NYC Reeds in District 3, I am passionate about these initiatives and their ability to foster rigorous learning. As a superintendent, I also implemented policies and programs that center the safety of our young people, like the statewide school cell phone ban. This policy is working. Our classrooms are more vibrant. Our cafeterias are buzzing with conversation. And I thank the senate for its leadership in this issue. After another key other key safe safety initiatives include project open arms, our comprehensive effort to support newcomer students. Today, I want to affirm our commitment to upholding every child's right to an education. We will continue to prioritize our students' physical and emotional well-being through project open arms, community schools, schools based health health clinics, and more. And with over 150,000 students in New York City experiencing homelessness last year last school year, we've expanded every child and family is known and other efforts to emphasize connection and belonging. Regarding my third priority, truly integrated schools, we have made important progress by publishing multiple hidden voices series, materials that uplift the stories of diverse communities. We need to continue this work along with nuanced conversations and planning around how our schools are structured. When when as a when I was a superintendent, this included thoughtful mergers and and and enrollment practices, and I'm eager to expand this approach as chancellor. As my team and I implement this vision, I want to thank the governor for proposing a fiscal fiscal twenty twenty seven budget that empowers students and families. Our on Her unprecedented investment in early care and education paired with mayor Mamdani's commitment to creating a truly universal early childhood system in New York City will ensure the next generation of New Yorkers have bright starts while simultaneously addressing a key affordable issue for families. My team and I are eager to improve our birth to five continuum by expanding access to two year olds, continuing the growth of three k, and strengthening pre k including students with disabilities. The mayor and I would also like to thank the governor for including a four year extension of mayoral accountability in her proposed budget. This extension would allow us to continue pursuing transformative system wide work, like strengthening and expanding early childhood New York City reads and class size reduction, work that requires strong sustained central oversight and execution. Please note that while mayor Mandanian and I support the governor's proposal, we are committed to ensuring families and communities are more have more of a say in how our school system runs. Beginning next month, I will be meeting with parent parent leaders, advocates, and community members from across the city to gather their input on this matter, in addition to launching community conversations in each of the five boroughs. While we are extremely grateful for the governor's proposals and investments, NYC Public Schools other critical needs that I would like to speak to today. These needs are specifically urgent given the city's stark financial realities as a result of choices made in the last mayor of administration. And I hope the senate the state and city can work together to maintain critical initiatives that serve our youngest New Yorkers. One such initiative is class size. Our commitment to this work is evident in our progress. This past school year, fueled by a $450,000,000 hiring investment from from the city and state, we funded staff staff we funded and near and staffed nearly 3,700 teaching positions for class size reduction, bringing 64% of our classes below the cap, including exemptions. Please know that I believe deeply in the spirit of this law. I I implemented it on on the ground when I was in District 3. To me, class size is not simply a checkbox a box checking exercise. It's it's about ensuring that every child has the support they deserve from their teacher. However, reaching the reaching next year's goal of 80% of the 80% threshold will be a formidable undertaking. We will need to hire at least 6,000 additional teachers on top of the standard annual hiring, which will cost at minimum an additional $602,000,000 annually. The volume of candidates needed specifically significantly exceeds our current pipelines. To that end, I hope to work with you and our union partners to find finding ways that enable us to to simultaneously meet the mandate and achieve our critical goals. Like increasing student support, promoting integration, and building more robust teacher recruitment strategies. Another significant budget concern for NYU CPS is foundation aid. While we are grateful for the proposed 3.5% increase for New York City, the foundation aid formula still does not reflect what it takes to educate an NYC public school student in 2026. Moreover, the formula changes implemented last year resulted in 314,000,000 less for our schools in '20 in in fiscal year twenty twenty six than we would have received under the prior formula. We continue to experience this loss of potential funding at similar levels we will continue to experience this loss of potential funding at similar levels in FY 2027 and ongoing unless improvements to the formula are made. We ask the state to factor in regional cost index, which is substantially higher in New York City than in the rest of the state. Additionally, the formula needs to be updated to truly serve our highest need students, including a new wait for for students in temporary housing and increased waits for both multilingual learners and students with disabilities. Relatedly, there are other critical ways the legislature can support our students with disabilities, specifically by providing funding for equitable services, increasing reimbursement rates for preschool special education, and strengthening rate setting structures to incentivize innovative preschool special education programming. In closing, thank you for your dedication to our schools. Our students need your support. So do our families. You are essential leaders and and partners, and I look forward to your questions.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Thank you, mister Chancellor. One second early. Solomon Benedetto, ten minutes.

[Assemblymember Michael R. Benedetto, Chair, Assembly Education Committee]: Mister chancellor, again, thank you for being here.

[Chancellor Kumar Samuels, NYC Department of Education]: Thank you, Bobby.

[Assemblymember Michael R. Benedetto, Chair, Assembly Education Committee]: Let's talk school governance here. Okay. The governor wants to extend this for the another four years, and, you have no problem with that apparently with the with the according to your testimony.

[Chancellor Kumar Samuels, NYC Department of Education]: That's correct.

[Assemblymember Michael R. Benedetto, Chair, Assembly Education Committee]: I don't know what's gonna happen as we go forward, because, maybe there's a possibility, that that we say in the legislature, we don't wanna include that in the budget. Okay? That maybe this is policy and should not be put in the budget. Although it was last year now or two years ago. But let's go underneath the assumption that it's not put in the budget. Okay? And I got a feeling there are some opinions that might be coming out of my conference that might change school governance in some way. So with that as a possibility, would you possibly venture into making suggestions on how we should change it possibly?

[Chancellor Kumar Samuels, NYC Department of Education]: Yeah. So first of all, I think mayoral accountability is crucial to our system in New York City. It's important that and, you know, in every conversation I've had or I had certainly in the beginning with our mayor, it was at the forefront of my mind that if we were going to have an expansive agenda in the we do have with early childhood, with thinking about class size, maintaining critical. You really don't want, you know, several different districts trying to do their own thing. And so for me, that is a a crucial part. Now, of course, we and every everything I've done in my career has really centered the voice of parents. When we have a challenge in which we do right now, it's important for us to face our parents and our community to hear what their concerns are. And we will do that with our governance structure as well. Certainly going to be listening to communities to hear their ideas around how this how they want to adjust the mayoral accountability so that their voices are heard, not just in typical engagement, but also in the decision making progress process.

[Assemblymember Michael R. Benedetto, Chair, Assembly Education Committee]: So basically, you want to possibly increase the voice of the parents?

[Chancellor Kumar Samuels, NYC Department of Education]: I think that's critical. I think there are some ways that we we we think that we could actually we could we could do that, but really, I wanna hear from the folks who who it would impact the most.

[Assemblymember Michael R. Benedetto, Chair, Assembly Education Committee]: Okay. I have been over the years a strong proponent of partnerships with institutions within the city Of New York and we have great institutions. As a matter of fact, couple years ago, I had a hearing on this that we should team up, with those institutions, like the Bronx Zoo, like like, the Juilliard and and so on, and fall upon them. And I believe I heard that in your testimony that you are in favor of that and I think they make stronger schools. Do you have proposals that possibly to increase those partnerships?

[Chancellor Kumar Samuels, NYC Department of Education]: Yeah, we have partnerships with our institutions, our cultural institutions, zoos, and so on across the city. Many of my many many parents and families, including my own, we make use of when for kindergarten students as well as first grade students. They have a pass that get to that we get as a family to visit these institutions. And we wanna make sure that we continue those and expand when we have the opportunity to to to do so. Of my favorite places to go is to the Bronx Zoo in the summer, and thank you for meeting me on the first day Absolutely. At at at my school where I started teaching in The Bronx. I'm sure you've told your colleagues how much I cried being back there. Yeah.

[Assemblymember Michael R. Benedetto, Chair, Assembly Education Committee]: You were entering the the the school system as I was going out the door, from the school system. But but but we shared that that Sorry.

[Chancellor Kumar Samuels, NYC Department of Education]: I missed your social studies class.

[Assemblymember Michael R. Benedetto, Chair, Assembly Education Committee]: And I I I certainly loved it, and And now you have a chance to make an impact on it. I wish you the best, son.

[Chancellor Kumar Samuels, NYC Department of Education]: Thank you so much.

[Assemblymember Michael R. Benedetto, Chair, Assembly Education Committee]: And my questions. Okay.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, Senate Finance Committee]: We're going to start with one of our two chairs, Senator John Liu, New York City Education. We apparently take this pretty seriously up here.

[Senator John C. Liu, Chair, Senate NYC Education Committee]: Thank you, Madam Chair. Welcome. Mr. Chancellor? It's impressive that you did not mention even once that you're new on the job. And not only did you not mention that, but your testimony actually shows quite a bit of continuity from the previous administration, both City Hall and New York City Public Schools, where you cite the success of some of the programs that you clearly intend to expand upon and build upon the successes of, while also having a greater appreciation for some issues that the previous administration didn't, such as the need to reduce overcrowded class sizes in New York City. And I I know mayor Mamdani had already created an initiative to hire more teachers. You and your testimony talked about the need to hire thousands of more teachers on top of the regular annual influx that is needed by New York City Public Schools. So I feel like you have that you certainly have an understanding of the magnitude of that job. We've talked about some legislation that could help your efforts on top of the funding that you need. So that's a good start. What what I'd like to see though is what kind of efforts you have had you've made to identify space needs because clearly, we need teachers. We also need space because we need more classrooms if we're going to reduce overcrowded class sizes in New York City. So is there a plan yet to reduce to to build more classroom space or is that still in the works? Because so far the communications to the principals has been how much more do you need primarily for staffing but not, I haven't seen much focus on building more classrooms.

[Chancellor Kumar Samuels, NYC Department of Education]: Yes. So I think for for those pieces, number one, we have to look at are we utilizing the spaces that we currently have well enough. Right? And when you think of when you look at the way I view this work from my time in in District 3 and District 13, I really try to make sure that the underutilized space spaces, we are figuring out ways to use those spaces while forwarding our integration efforts or making schools more robust and serving more students. Having said that and so, yes, the first step is to look at how we're using the current space that we have. Some use some schools are overcrowded and and it's not that far away where you have a school that's not overcrowded or underutilized. And then we have to work with the SEA to think about the future plans. A quarter of the schools that are that don't have enough space have either have one or one to four rooms that they need. Right? So if if a quarter of the schools have one to four room that rooms that they need, it it seems to me that we ought to take a real look at that to see if the best thing to do is to build or we can utilize we can figure out ways for other adjustments. And then there are schools that specifically high schools that have that are really overcrowded and need a lot more buildings. And and so, you know, in the my first talk or brief with the SCA, they talk about having upwards of 30,000 seats that they're thinking about bringing on on stream. I think another thing there is that there's if we are supposed to make this this all about buildings, that's a $16,000,000,000 project. If we are if we're if we look at some other initiatives like what I just talked about as well as thinking about buildings long term, I think now we have about $3,000,000,000 that are that that we can use for additional projects that we we should be thinking about, and we should get a a straight answer and a real good plan for SCA. And then finally, I think we need long term we're now starting to work with community boards to think about, while we might want a high school in a neighborhood, a community board might not. And so we have to work together to think about a long term strategy around

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Well, I

[Chancellor Kumar Samuels, NYC Department of Education]: how that how that works.

[Senator John C. Liu, Chair, Senate NYC Education Committee]: Thank you, mister chancellor. I appreciate all of these comments and thoughts that you've conveyed to us. It's a lot more than we have heard in four years. So thank you for that. But we would like to see more details. And the fact that you've already stated that we need to perhaps find more classroom space within existing school buildings, the the middle part, you didn't mention so much. There are some schools that have space outside their current buildings

[Chancellor Kumar Samuels, NYC Department of Education]: That's right.

[Senator John C. Liu, Chair, Senate NYC Education Committee]: Where you could build on the school property. That is also an option to create more classroom space. And then finally, we definitely do need to build more schools, particularly at the high school level. So, that is going to be costly and time consuming, but we need a plan. And there has not the city has not yet put forth a plan. I'll be the one to say that you're new, the mayor is new, but we're gonna need a plan from you as soon as possible, like, within within the coming weeks. You mentioned and, you know, you and I have talked about both equity and excellence as goals that are not mutually exclusive. And then in fact, in your testimony, you talked about you talked about excellence. You talked about robust, rigorous learning. And and you talked about it more towards the high school years. Is it possible that some of the younger school children require more rigorous learning?

[Chancellor Kumar Samuels, NYC Department of Education]: I'm not sure I talked about it only towards the high school years. I think every every child and every parent in our city deserves to have opportunities for accelerated programs and rigorous programs. So I think that can be something that we think about in every school. When a child goes to a school, it's important that they're getting work that is rigorous, that meets their needs, that's pushing them. And when students are off track or not where they where they are, it's important that we have the interventions for them.

[Senator John C. Liu, Chair, Senate NYC Education Committee]: So younger children could use some of the younger children need more rigorous learning as well. And you mentioned accelerated learning.

[Chancellor Kumar Samuels, NYC Department of Education]: Sure. Sure.

[Senator John C. Liu, Chair, Senate NYC Education Committee]: But how do you identify the students that require or could benefit from accelerated learning? Is that what the the previous administration, what they've been doing? Is that is that satisfactory or is that something that you might be looking at?

[Chancellor Kumar Samuels, NYC Department of Education]: Well, I think in terms of identification, we have our screeners that we use that show you which students are where students are per grade. And I think we can actually think about structures. And sometimes we talk about structures such as our multi tiered system of supports, we only focus on we sometimes focus on the students who are off track. But during those times, you can also get opportunities for enrichment and opportunities for acceleration. So, yes, I think we have to really think about how we are addressing accelerated opportunities. In I all of

[Senator John C. Liu, Chair, Senate NYC Education Committee]: thought I heard you say that, but I'm not entirely sure. Did you use the word screening or screeners?

[Chancellor Kumar Samuels, NYC Department of Education]: Male So a screener is, you know, similar to when you go to the doctor, right? You go to the doctor, you get your blood pressure. If you went to the doctor and it didn't take your blood pressure, then you would wonder, like, what's going on with this doctor? Similar to If a by October, the teacher hasn't given you a screener, which is different from a screen, a screener says, Okay, where is this child in reading? Where is this child in math? And what are the things that we need to do in the classroom to really address those issues?

[Senator John C. Liu, Chair, Senate NYC Education Committee]: Okay. There's a lot more, but there's just one more major issue I'd like you to think about, if you haven't already, which is it's been an age old problem in New York City, and that is the issue of pupil transportation. We've got school bus contracts coming up, and we've got issues of, you know, experienced drivers versus new drivers that often are paid less. Have your has your administration began to put together a plan for the school bus contracts and how best to transport our kids?

[Chancellor Kumar Samuels, NYC Department of Education]: Yeah. Absolutely. We trans we transport a 150 kids 50,000 students every day, 9,000 routes. We need to figure out exactly how to be more efficient in in in a lot of these spaces. However, as you know, a lot of our contracts were made in '28. And we had a recent three year extension of those contracts. And I think when we're thinking about what we need to do, we know there are some support we'll need in terms of legislation for really thinking about changing providing a better service for all of our students to make sure that getting to school on time and ready to learn is not a barrier to it.

[Senator John C. Liu, Chair, Senate NYC Education Committee]: Well, thank you, mister chancellor. We have very, very high hopes for you. And I know that you're going to do your best to meet them. Thank you very much, ma'am.

[Chancellor Kumar Samuels, NYC Department of Education]: Appreciate you, Sandra. Appreciate it. Thank you.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, Senate Finance Committee]: Hi. Assembly.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: That was, I think, I'm looking for next, Assemblyman Carroll.

[Assemblymember Robert C. Carroll]: Thank you so much, Chair Pretlow. And good afternoon, Chancellor Samuels. It's very nice to see you. Want to, first, I want to thank you for your commitment to New York City Reads and to making sure that we continue the progress of bringing evidence based literacy curriculum to all of our classrooms. That was done in the previous administration. I do want to highlight I know you know this that we are far from finished on that journey. We still need to do lots more to make sure that there is professional development done with all of our teachers, especially our We elementary school need to make sure that there is an accounting of the materials that are being used in our schools to make sure they conform with evidence based practices, and that we have things like decodable texts in every single classroom. And so my question is broad. What do you plan to do in the next year to make sure that we're getting teachers the proper professional development so that they have the knowledge and skills to implement an evidence based literacy curriculum? And how are we going to do an accounting of all of the materials in our public schools so that we know that they can form with those practices as well?

[Chancellor Kumar Samuels, NYC Department of Education]: Yeah. Well, thank you so much for your question and thank you so much for your commitment to this area. Literacy is the most important thing that we do as a system. Right? Just like it is today. It was in 1964. It was in 1863, seventeen sixties 1776, or 1619. The most important thing you can do for a vulnerable child is teach them to read. And that's going to really impact and change their life outcomes in many different ways. We have in the wonderful thing about NYC reads is having a well articulated curriculum from K to 12, in many cases, for literacy. And that gives teachers a playbook when they come to our schools, when they come into our schools, to be able to not have to guess. They'll plan for daily lessons, but they don't have to try to figure out what the road map is. And I think that's a really that's dramatically different than when I started to teach twenty years ago. Right? And then the other piece is, for the first time in twenty years, we have well articulated research based interventions for all of our schools that they can look and make strategic decisions based on where they see their children are. And I think this is very exciting because even as a principal, I struggle to know all the best initiatives and the best the most recent research based practice. And I think having that available centrally, I think, is super important. And so a part of the accounting that you're talking about obviously done at the school level, at school based level. And our schools, they register for the core curriculum every year. They order the materials. They unpack the materials. And they do and we have tracking mechanisms for how this is being implemented in the classroom. Superintendents are responsible for making sure that they're tracking those interventions that implementation process. So I'm I'm very excited with how with where we are right now, but I think the next thing you the the thing you asked was about what's the next the what what's the

[Speaker 55.0]: next frontier?

[Chancellor Kumar Samuels, NYC Department of Education]: And I think, you know, for our students who are who are who may not be where we want them to be, especially as we get to the middle school level, principals and teachers are creating systems for MTSS where, you know, within the school day there are strategic reading periods that you can go and get what you need at that time. And I think getting really better and more clear about what's happening during those periods, making sure that, you know, our principals are observing those periods and giving feedback on those periods, that's what I think is really important.

[Assemblymember Robert C. Carroll]: Well, that's good to hear. I would love to work with you. Every year, we do direct grants to elementary schools in my district for professional development in evidence based literacy. You know, sometimes it's letters, sometimes it's Orton Gillingham, sometimes it's something else. I would, I would love to see that type of work scaled, because teachers, principals are yearning for that, and I think it would change the trajectory of so many schools, especially schools that are struggling. You mentioned you alluded to students who are struggling and then figuring out what are those multiple steps to kind of put in best practices so that our struggling students are given the interventions that they so desperately need to become successful students. And this is a place where I think we have a long way to go, and a place where we can really build. And I hope that we can make sure to have a systematic way. You know, your DIBELS screeners are great. And I understand why we use them and why they are effective, especially for students who are struggling, but that there is a clear trajectory to get them on track. However, students who are struggling with language based learning disabilities, which are the vast majority of students who have disabilities, a DIBELS screener will not be enough to tell us and to identify what we need to do to make sure that we can make to make sure that we can provide them the interventions to make them fluid and fluent readers. You know, when I was a young man, was so lucky I didn't think I was lucky, but I was so lucky to be identified early as having dyslexia. You know, between the first and second grade. We need to be able to do that in our public schools and then we need to be able to have to be nimble enough to provide intensive instruction in a public school setting. I had told Commissioner Rosa before, you know, I was denied the ability to stay at my local public school in Kensington, Brooklyn. My two boys, one of whom is in a three ks program right now, I agree that he's one of New York's cutest. I want him, if he has the same struggles as me, I want him to be able to stay in his neighborhood and not to be segregated from his friends, to be segregated from his block and sent somewhere else. And that's a place though the former mayor spoke eloquently about his struggles with dyslexia, I have to be clear as somebody who had those same struggles, We have not made meaningful steps to correct those issues in our public schools. And it's the number one learning issue you know this that are facing our children and it's something that we can correct and those students have unbelievable potential. And I think it's somewhere where you and I and the current mayor see eye to eye. I think we too often get lost in this idea that, you know, we seek excellence and that that is something for just a select few students, when all of our students have the opportunity for excellence and that the soft bigotry of low expectations, which hits so many of our students, I remember that And I know that you remember that. And we need to make sure that we meet this moment. And I think that you're the person to do that. And I would love to work with you on that.

[Chancellor Kumar Samuels, NYC Department of Education]: Thank you. And I I take you up on that invitation. I'd love to work with you on that too. Our long term upstream solution here, though, is really to think about the universal screeners for all kids and especially to identify risk of dyslexia and other print based learning disabilities. And so I want to turn it over to our Deputy Chancellor, Christina Foti, to add anything.

[Speaker 56.0]: Thank you. And Assembly Member Carol, was a pleasure to visit the IRAD program with you. And thank you for your support, both in training and also, of course, via legislation. Our goal, as we talked about during that visit, is high quality program close to home. We do not want kids to leave their neighborhoods, as you did. And as a result, we're building more of those programs. And it's something that Chancellor Samuels and I have already spoken about. We have deep interest in expansion of our specialized programs across the board. And, you know, I think it's also important to point out the role of the psychologist in this identification, and you know this very well. Now, our psychologists, right, have caseloads that are quite large. And we've given them assessments to support the identification. However, I also just want to name, our psychologists are funded via tax levy funding. They are not part of fair student funding. And so when I know that I've certainly heard the commissioner's testimony and certainly have read the other public comments submitted, and certainly you've heard from the chancellor that when we were talking about foundation aid, if we're going to look at kids comprehensively, we really do need to look at these weights and just want to affirm J.

[Assemblymember Robert C. Carroll]: Deputy chancellor, I'm just going to jump in because I have ten seconds. J. Agree with you. We need that funding. Finally, we also need funding for high quality reading teachers in every single elementary school in New York City. Thank you.

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: Thank you.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, Senate Finance Committee]: Thank you. And now we have our Education Committee Chair, Shelly Maher. Ten minutes.

[Senator Shelley B. Mayer, Chair, Senate Education Committee]: Good afternoon, Chancellor. Good to see you and your team. First question is, what is your understanding of the governor's proposal for three ks in New York City? How many students will be eligible or will every parent that wants a three ks, their three year old to be in the program, will that be available to them and when will that occur under the governor's proposal?

[Chancellor Kumar Samuels, NYC Department of Education]: Yeah. So I want to first of all start by saying, you know, I have a two year old at home. And quite frankly, the cost of childcare is way too high in our city. And for a working family, just so hard to figure out how to to to drop your kid off, get to work, and so on. And we've delivered on high quality three ks options over the past number of years. And we're going to continue to do so. And I want to turn it over to our Deputy Chancellor, Simone Hawkins, to talk a little bit more about this.

[Speaker 31.0]: Thank you. Thanks for that question. And so first, I want to share that currently we have over 50,003 ks seats in

[Senator Shelley B. Mayer, Chair, Senate Education Committee]: the city. I'm sorry, didn't hear that part. Currently, we have what?

[Speaker 31.0]: Over 50,003 ks seats in the city.

[Senator Shelley B. Mayer, Chair, Senate Education Committee]: Yes.

[Speaker 31.0]: JULIE And so the governor's investment, along with the efforts of our mayor, is intended to grow that number to meet unmet need across certain zip codes. We are working to confirm that, because as we all know, and as Assembly Member Carroll shared, we have to remain nimble as well. Communities might have seats across the variety of settings. And year over year, we use application data to help direct where we're going to place additional seats. But at the core of that, any family who applies by our current deadline, which is February 27, will be offered a seat. And then for families who apply for any newly opened seats, which this contribution and investment will cover, it will be non means tested. So as long as they are three by the end of the calendar year and live in the five boroughs, they will be able to get a seat.

[Senator Shelley B. Mayer, Chair, Senate Education Committee]: And hopefully in some close proximity to where they live?

[Speaker 31.0]: That is correct. That's the goal. Okay.

[Senator Shelley B. Mayer, Chair, Senate Education Committee]: With respect to changing the formula, which you spoke about, and I know Commissioner Rosa spoke about also, in the category of homeless, unhoused, foster care, which is an argument for modifying the formula, how many students in the New York City School District or New York City Schools fall into that category? And what is the policy argument, which I think most of us agree with, but it would be helpful if you articulated it, why you need an additional weight for those students?

[Chancellor Kumar Samuels, NYC Department of Education]: Yeah. So right now, there are over a 135,000 students who are who fall in the unhoused, sheltered, or doubled up category. And there's and if you include charter schools, it's over a 150,000. Right? And so when we think about what it takes in a school to serve our most vulnerable students, that is a heavy lift. So we have our community schools that really offer wraparound services for our students. When I personally, when I was a principal, when I became a principal, there were 25 I had 500 students. There were 25 students who were in temporary housing. By the time I left the school six years later, there were 103. And this was a while ago. So if you think about what that means for a school in terms of the high concentration of students with needs in the same schools and what it takes both academically, socio emotionally, and even to provide a high quality meal at school. All of the different pieces, you can imagine that that does even clothing, that does add up in terms of what we provide to students. But I'm going to turn it over to if you want to add anything.

[Speaker 57.0]: Well, the chancellor put it so well, but the only thing that I will actually add to that is we are also seeing an increase in need of our students. And so we have our students in temporary housing. I don't mean to generalize, but we're seeing more students who are multilingual learners. We're seeing more students who have special education needs. And so those students need more targeted supports. They need more specialized programming. And they need more staffing in order to support the needs of those students. And so the call to make the adjustment in the foundation aid formula is to ensure that it is reflective of the needs of our students and the specific needs of those students.

[Senator Shelley B. Mayer, Chair, Senate Education Committee]: So with respect to that and the ask for additional waiting for L students, I think one of the long term challenges we've had here is that we fight for more money for the New York City schools. Certainly Senator Liu and my colleagues from the city have really done their best. But we want to make sure it actually ends up in the programs you're describing that help these students who need these additional services. So how can you reassure us that to the extent we can modify the formula, for example, the regional cost index, Ls, homeless and unhoused students, to the extent we fight, that money is going to end up actually providing the services that you rightly say are necessary?

[Chancellor Kumar Samuels, NYC Department of Education]: Yeah. So first of all, I like the way you you you you listed the the the the places that we're looking at. New York City is not is not news to folks. It's an expensive place. Right? And we have while we have simultaneously a more expensive city over time, we also have students with greater needs over time. Right? Well documented in terms of, of course, our influx of new New Yorkers and so on. And so to think about that, one of the things we make sure is that the vast majority of the funds that come into our New York City system goes directly to schools. Even for me as a superintendent, I remember thinking, am I ever going to get a budget? Why don't I have a budget? It's because we send all the money to schools. And so we have to think so that is built into our culture as an organization. And I think we also give schools significant autonomy, especially when have when we know their students have so many needs, significant autonomy in working through their budget. And add anything?

[Speaker 57.0]: You took my thunder on FSF. So to the chancellor's point, we make sure that the funding goes directly to schools. One of the things that we did when the state committed and agreed to fully fund CFE was increase FSF to 100% to make sure that every school received at least 100% of the funding that should be allocated to them. And so, I think that in itself shows our commitment in terms of ensuring that that money goes directly to the students for the resources they need. And then also, to put DC Phote on the spot, the number of specialized programs that we have and that we are committed to expanding to provide resources for our students, especially the ones that are most vulnerable.

[Senator Shelley B. Mayer, Chair, Senate Education Committee]: I just want to get my last question in here about and I raised it with Commissioner Rosa. Statewide, we're concerned if there's more immigration enforcement activity in the City Of New York or in any of our communities, but here about New York City, that we want to ensure that our schools are safe places. So I know the New York City schools have taken steps towards this, but could you describe your approach to sort of how we're going to ensure our kids are safe in school?

[Chancellor Kumar Samuels, NYC Department of Education]: Yeah, this is one of the biggest issues that is top of mind for me personally, certainly as an immigrant myself. I would say, though, over the last year, the New York City's public schools has been unwavering in our protection of our students. We don't ask immigration status. Our principals are trained and our school staff is trained on what to do if non law enforcement non local law enforcement or ICE shows up at a school. We have various opportunities for folks to be trained on that. What I would say is the tone of the current administration shifted. And I think schools feel even more empowered and emboldened to be protective of students. And so we haven't had any incidents so far, but our schools are certainly ready and able to respond based on the training that they've received.

[Senator Shelley B. Mayer, Chair, Senate Education Committee]: And thank you very much. Thank Thank you for your we look forward to working closely with you.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Thank you. Assemblywoman Cruz.

[Speaker 27.0]: Thank you for accommodating, Mr. Chairman. And thank you, chancellor, for being here. Nationally with ICE and enforcement. We've seen stories of five year olds being used as bait. We've seen them threaten to go into schools. And we've seen them being left alone in cars or at school because their parents have been disappeared. In Corona, where I represent, we become the epicenter of these ICE kidnappings, with incidents happening daily, many of them near schools. One in a particular corner next to PS 19 became

[Hearing Clerk/Staff (unidentified)]: a

[Speaker 27.0]: hot spot where they were just parking themselves there and picking up anyone that looked brown or like an immigrant without a warrant, and it was very clear. And it was right by a school. And some of this happened right before pickup, which begs the question, and I would love to hear what is your and the mayor's plan to keep our kids safe and our teachers safe. And for responding when a child or a parent, I'm sorry, when a child's parent is picked up or kidnapped while the kid is in school and they're I left also would love to hear what is the plan to expand Project Open Arms, If there is a plan to expand it, better fund it, continue it. And as you'll explain, so that's my second question. And as you explained, integration is going to be a big part of your priorities. What role do you foresee bilingual education playing in this process, as well as ensuring that there is language and cultural appropriateness to whatever the process is? And lastly, here's more of an ask. I'd like to urge you to visit our districts. I saw that you were beginning to visit many of them. Chancellor Carranza and Aviles Ramos came to my district, And we had a fantastic relationship and ability to communicate. I never even met Chancellor Banks. They never showed up to my district. And so I want to urge you, especially for those of us who have high needs districts, for you to come over, visit us, and work with us.

[Chancellor Kumar Samuels, NYC Department of Education]: Thank you. So Project Open Arms, which is a huge part of our response for when comes to our most vulnerable recent immigrants who are many of them seeking asylum and so on. That will certainly continue. We're actually thinking about ways to really organize so that it can be a part of our general response to students in temporary housing as well. So building systems, though there are some specific things that we know families in those situations need. And we need to be able to coordinate what you're talking about, which is if a child happens to be left at school and the parent is arrested, we need to coordinate sometimes legal representation. We work with Project Russo and others to do so. So we need to continue that. And when it comes to integration, absolutely. Monolingualism is the new illiteracy, right? So we need to ensure that we are promoting bilingual programs.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, Senate Finance Committee]: Thank you. Sorry, Senator Chang Ranker on Citi's education.

[Speaker 58.0]: There it goes. The thing was rustling me. Chancellor, once again, meet. I wanna thank you very much for having a brief conversation with me last week in IS two twenty, one of our best schools in my district. As a PTA president myself, shout out to IS one eighty seven and PS one twelve. A lot of parents are concerned about this. You know, may our new mayor, Amdani, has indicated that he would phase out our current, gifted and talented programs, which have been highly successful and well revered by the, you know, parents and the kids alike citywide in every neighborhood that can think of. Mhmm. Can you tell me if this is still the plan? And if so, how would you go about phasing down this gifted and talented program?

[Speaker 38.0]: All right.

[Chancellor Kumar Samuels, NYC Department of Education]: Yeah. So

[Speaker 38.0]: in

[Chancellor Kumar Samuels, NYC Department of Education]: every like I indicated a little bit before, I think, you know, we believe and I think having accelerated programs in schools is very important.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: And

[Chancellor Kumar Samuels, NYC Department of Education]: we're not going to Close as a train. Back down from that commitment to all of our families. However, I think that the way we do these accelerated programs, we can take a look at for example, right now, there is no testing involved in our GNC program. Right? So a parent or a teacher checks a box that says, you know, you you are ready for accelerated programs at kindergarten. And we have to look at what the data tells us about how the system has changed since that implementation. You know, what the mayor has said is if we are going to think about an admissions criteria, we ought to think about it beginning at a later age. Because doing it at kindergarten is not necessarily research based. And so we have to think about that. But I will say that the program as it is now will continue into September. But what I want to do, as I've said before in every role I've had in the department, I've engaged school communities and I've engaged parents. And so the first thing we're going to do is look at where we are with the current schools that are citywide G and T schools, arrange and organize them to come up with what are the things that are working with the current process and what are the things that are not working. We're gonna listen to parents around what what are some of the the the thoughts and and and and ideas that could work. And so this is gonna be something that we we you should, you know, stay tuned for because we're gonna have to do that in the in the upcoming weeks and months.

[Speaker 58.0]: I'll stay tuned. Okay. So my next question is this. Asian students represent about one fifth or just under 20% of New York City public school enrollment, but yet Asian principals represent less than 4% of school leaders. So the DOE has made every effort and intentional time bound investments into elevating the other races such as blacks and Hispanics educators into leadership roles. Is do you have any plans to to do the same for the Asian community? Given this gap, what specific steps are you going to take to improve Asian principal representation?

[Chancellor Kumar Samuels, NYC Department of Education]: So, you know, every child deserves to have staff and leaders that they can see themselves in. Right? And I think that's something that we, you know, have thought about and and struggled with across many different races. Right? So we think we've we've thought about really doing a lot of recruitment for various in various ways, but we don't necessarily target, you know, a particular race. But we would say I would say to you, you know, I wanna make sure that our recruitment efforts in the past in the in the future are really widespread and that our teachers who are Asian teachers because you're a teacher before you're a principal our teachers who are Asian teachers see themselves in wanting to make sure that they are leaders in our system and wanting to make sure that they're supported. Because I guarantee you, many people who don't become principals not because they necessarily don't want to, some of them leave the system. So we want to make sure that folks are in the system so that they're trying to become principals to be the limit. And that's something we can work on.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Thank you. Thank you. Assemblyman Smith.

[Assemblymember Doug Smith, Ranking Member, Assembly Education Committee]: Thank you. And chancellor, thank you for joining us. Nice to meet you. I like that you're a former math teacher.

[Hearing Clerk/Staff (unidentified)]: I think

[Assemblymember Doug Smith, Ranking Member, Assembly Education Committee]: that's pretty exciting. One of the things I just to start off, I want to kind of reiterate as we're trying to improve scores on math and numeracy. You know reading comprehension is critical because our students can't succeed in math if they can't read and understand what they're trying to decipher into code. Last year, concerning reports surfaced about thousands of students with special education needs not getting services mandated in their IEPs. What are the biggest constraints that are blocking these services from being delivered? And how is the new administration addressing these?

[Chancellor Kumar Samuels, NYC Department of Education]: Yeah. Great question. So as a former superintendent and former principal, I can say that we certainly have done a lot of work over the last number of years to make sure that all of our students, as many students as possible, are getting served. The biggest barrier for me was always teacher shortage areas and finding the teacher and making sure that they got the appropriate support. And so I know that we hold ourselves accountable because also our city council hold us accountable to making sure that we're meeting services on the IEP. And I know that Deputy Chancellor Foti has done a lot of work in this J.

[Speaker 38.0]: Do you know the current number

[Assemblymember Doug Smith, Ranking Member, Assembly Education Committee]: of students that are with needs that are not receiving these services? Because as you know, an IEP is a legally binding document.

[Speaker 56.0]: I'm able to turn the mic on and off for everybody but myself. Currently, are at record high service levels of provision. We're at 93%, but that is not 100%, just to be clear. And we've done that largely through the recruitment of special educators. We hired 3,700 teachers last year. We made very intentional focus on prioritizing special education amidst small class size work. To still hit the record high was a huge accomplishment, but we're not there. And that recruitment needs to continue. Our kids are coming in with higher and higher needs. And that means we need our educators to come in with more and more training. And so we're doing things like focusing on the recruitment of autism experts as cohorts and teachers. So that work just needs to continue. We're making progress. Same with related service provision. We're almost about to hit 95%. We've done that through hiring, but we've also done that through enhancing our contracted rates, opening up weekend sites. We're providing service Saturday and Sunday now, which I don't know how many folks know. But seven days a week, we're to make these mandates happen for children. And we're moving in the right direction, and we're not at 100%.

[Assemblymember Doug Smith, Ranking Member, Assembly Education Committee]: J. Well, definitely appreciate that. And just know that you have a lot of allies in the legislature to try to help you get the funding and resources you need to meet those needs. As my colleagues have mentioned, you know, we need to really help children early on and make sure we actually are providing that. Not only do we want to do it, but it's legally required that we do that and we want to do that. So thank you.

[Speaker 56.0]: We're grateful. Thank you.

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: Hello.

[Speaker 59.0]: Are we done? No, just waiting. I

[Speaker 60.0]: apologize for

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, Senate Finance Committee]: negotiating people here. Senator Salazar is not here right now. Okay. So we're letting Senator Bailey slide in for her three minutes because she's not here because he has to be somewhere else. And no one else be mad at me. Okay.

[Speaker 61.0]: Thank you, Madam Chair. Wagwan, Chancellor. Coming from uptown, we appreciate you, man. Thank you for the work that you're doing, that you've been doing in the school system. Representation matters. So, the first question I want to ask you is about the Black Studies program expansion. It's been doing really good work. Can you tell me about the plans to expand it a little further?

[Chancellor Kumar Samuels, NYC Department of Education]: Yeah. So as I wasn't the first district to do it, but one of the first in District 3. We had really great experiences with it in terms of trying to make sure that our curriculum was interdisciplinary. And when we you know, it it helped me to help my teachers answer a question that I used to ask my professors when we were doing, you know, something in ancient Europe or something. I used to say, so what was happening in Africa at the same time? And sometimes that curriculum really helped teachers to kind of answer that question, whether they were doing Mesopotamia or something else. So that was great. We it is available for any district that need that needs it, and there is a host of professional learning that goes along with it. I'm excited about that as well as our hidden hidden voices work with the African Diaspora Volume I and II. So our teachers have a lot of resources. I think what they also need is the opportunity to sit and see where it falls within the curriculum and make good, informed choices.

[Speaker 61.0]: Excellent. Just a couple more questions. There was a big fire in my district in Boston C Corps. And thank you, you know, and Chancellor and Superintendent Vaughan for opening up PS189.

[Chancellor Kumar Samuels, NYC Department of Education]: That's right.

[Speaker 61.0]: When these things happened, what happens what's the plan to make sure that displaced students and their families have the proper counseling? Like, is there a plan in place for the DOE? Like, what happens in these exigent circumstances?

[Chancellor Kumar Samuels, NYC Department of Education]: Yeah. Senator Bailey, I on the first day I was chancellor, my first day, there was a four alarm fire in The Bronx. I visited a school. This has happened within a month. And I visited three schools where we opened up a shelter because not shelter, we opened up our services, our school foods, where there are folks feeding families and so on. This is a big issue. In every one of our schools, we have access to either a guidance counselor, social worker, or a mental health clinic. And in those situations, we oftentimes activate our crisis team so that schools can share counselors if need be. So we have a plan to make sure that when our families experience that kind of trauma, they can get service. Ten

[Speaker 61.0]: seconds. As a K through J. D. Public school kid my whole life, I'm really interested in hearing more about civics for all, maybe in writing, but I just really believe that our schools are the foundation of bedrock and this is where we should be doing it. Thank you for all your work.

[Chancellor Kumar Samuels, NYC Department of Education]: All right, thank you so much. Thank you,

[Speaker 62.0]: thank you,

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: thank you all. Assemblywoman Hyndman?

[Speaker 12.0]: Thank you, Chair Pretlow, it's good to

[Speaker 32.0]: see you again, Medea. So, I agree with Senator Liu's point that the former administration did add a lot of good programs, especially the New York Reads, and I'm glad to see that you're continuing that. Thank you for coming to District 29. And as you know, and to your Deputy De Los Santos, I want to, you know, bring you in on this too. District 29 doesn't have one standalone high school. All of our high schools are colocated: Campus Magnet, Springfield Gardens, Cambria High School Pathways. Eagle is the only stand alone in the middle school building and now the HBCU. Augustmont, which is right around the corner from District 29, has seven high schools in it. So I'm really curious when we talk about the expansion of, you know, smaller class sizes, how do you do that when all of these schools are capped? And it just goes to show you that the school that's coming to District 28, which is a standalone high school, which only represents 13% of a predominantly black community, is getting a whole new high school for itself. And it just goes to show disparity still exists in the city Of New York. And I know you talk about equity and safety, especially, an integration in your plan coming from a superintendent. So, you know, and being the chair of higher education, it's really concerning not concerning, but I really like when I hear about, early high school, early early college programs. And I just wonder, especially with this administration, how do you guarantee the 2,800 28,000 early childhood not early. Sorry. The the 28,000 students that are currently in these early college programs with any cuts that come down the line. And I've been asked by my colleagues to try and get this in. You know, when it comes to the black studies curriculum, it was, done successfully under the former administration. We know some school districts. I can say that my school, district twenty nine, has adopted it. But how are you going to make sure that you maintain that in the years to come that you are going to be in this seat? Thank you.

[Chancellor Kumar Samuels, NYC Department of Education]: Thank you so much. So on the issue of building utilization, I think, like I said before, it's something critical to me. We've talked about this District 29 issue that you raised, especially thinking about being serious about finding a permanent home for the HBCU school. And so I want to turn it over to the first deputy chance to talk about that a little bit more.

[Speaker 63.0]: Good afternoon. Thank you for the question. We are committed to finding appropriate facilities for all of our students and especially the HBCU school. We are currently working very closely with SCA to find an appropriate site in or near the district to rehouse that school. And I'm hoping that we will have a concrete answer for you very, very soon, but also making it a priority with our work with SCA to accelerate how they're citing programs and making sure that they're in the districts where there's most need. And we can talk more if you'd like.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, Senate Finance Committee]: Okay, thank you. Now we have Senator Jackson.

[Speaker 41.0]: Chancellor and team, it's good to see you. Everyone's hoping and wishing the best for your tenure. Obviously, you're with the mayor as far as brand new coming in. But there's a lot of questions. People have talked about it. But I just got a text message. I'd like to read it for you. Addressing the need to teach children to read is extremely important. And it's great that teachers and schools are finally getting the support to help students with the science of reading. What feedback have you received from educators and others in the field of teaching the love of reading and being culturally responsive within New York Reads?

[Chancellor Kumar Samuels, NYC Department of Education]: Yes, I have. So one of the things that happens when we're thinking about shifts is that you don't want to throw out the baby with the bathwater, right? Essentially, a lot of our educators, some of our educators feel like, yes, it's important to do foundational literacy skills. It's important to make sure that, you know, the phonics program is very, very strong. But we also have to make sure that we keep that love of learning and that and specifically, the feedback I've heard is that kids get time to read more independently in school. Right? And so and so so but but I I will contend partly, like, students have to learn to read first before they really engage in independent reading to to the level that some folks are are asking. And what I'd what I'd what I'd say is, you know, it's important that we teach kids how to think while reading, but it's also important that we teach them to read things worth thinking about. And so we we we're very clear that, you know, we're teaching kids to read from K to two, and then three to five, they're learning through reading. And so we need to make sure that we are planning strong interdisciplinary curriculum opportunities so that that love of reading across content area will be promoted and come through fully, especially when it comes to figuring out how our science and social studies teachers are also literacy teachers.

[Speaker 41.0]: Well, there are twenty seconds left. The bottom line is that we want to make sure all of our children have the opportunity to read.

[Chancellor Kumar Samuels, NYC Department of Education]: If

[Speaker 41.0]: you can't read, we're in trouble.

[Chancellor Kumar Samuels, NYC Department of Education]: I agree.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Thank support you.

[Chancellor Kumar Samuels, NYC Department of Education]: Thanks. You both. Consciousness.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Submitwoman Mitaynes.

[Chancellor Kumar Samuels, NYC Department of Education]: Thank you so much.

[Speaker 22.0]: Hi. Thank you very much.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: They're telling me the truth. Oh. It's strange.

[Speaker 22.0]: They're represent the 51st District in Brooklyn, at South Brooklyn. It's predominantly folks of color, immigrants. I want to talk to you about speech language pathology and the resources and how they're spread across the city and how are you targeting high needs districts that are and also, how are you making sure that they're culturally sensitive? We know communities of color have less access, and that's something that I'm seeing a lot of parents just frustrated with the system and trying to make sure that their kids are getting the services that they need.

[Chancellor Kumar Samuels, NYC Department of Education]: Yeah, and other related services is a critical part to making sure that kids can really engage in instruction. And we often I think the real important part here is early intervention. And when we see our students that need this support, we can really support them in school. And I know, Christina, I'm sure you have things to add here.

[Speaker 64.0]: CHRISTINE Yeah, of course.

[Speaker 56.0]: And specifically, knowing the importance that the chancellor just outlined, we've been doing we've mapping where service provision across the city and targeting bilingual speech pathologists, in particular, in terms of prioritization of hiring, has been a major goal of ours that we have been doing. Earlier, I mentioned about expansion of contracts. That expansion of contracts allows us to pay at higher rates for our A, for agencies that will go to higher need communities, and B, to agencies that will make sure that we are getting bilingual speech pathologists. And so similar to the last question, we are making good progress in that area and is very much top of mind for us. And we're going to continue to pursue bilingual speech services.

[Speaker 22.0]: So I'm also offering would love to have you come and talk and, you know, really see how we can work together and how we can best make sure we're serving the folks in the community. My next question has to do on the raids and immigration stuff we're seeing. One of the closest things that's happened in our district is there's a local school that also has after school programming. So that means that they stay until seven, eight, sometimes later in the evening. That's when ICE decided to show up. And luckily, there was community folks that were able to spread the word, keep folks at home, and escorting them out. But my question is around data. Are you guys capturing data, information about also, how is this impacting attendance? Is that information being collected?

[Chancellor Kumar Samuels, NYC Department of Education]: We don't track immigration stat the immigration status of our students. But we know certainly anecdotally from principals, and we work with principals at making sure that, you know, all of our kids try to we try to keep all of our kids safe.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, Senate Finance Committee]: Thank you. Senator Zaccaro, ranker for the New York City Education New Committee York State, sorry. Excuse me. New York State Education Committee.

[Senator Jim Tedisco]: Thank you. Chancellor and your team of five, thank you for being here today. You look like a basketball team. I can relate to that. You should know when I say that we have something in common. I represent the 44th Senatorial District. Well, first thing we have in common, I had a real job at one time. I say that tongue in cheek. I was an educator for ten years, just down the road at Bethlehem Central High School, but it goes beyond that. I ran the math section of a team teaching program called Excel. And we got a lot of kids graduated, special education teacher, got my degree from the College of St. Rose. I hope they didn't go out of business because of that. They just kind of folded over here. But the 44th Senate District has other things in common. You're hailing from a great big, big city, maybe one of the greatest in the world. And I represent two great small cities, city of Schenectady and the city of Saratoga Springs in the county of Saratoga. What's historical about Saratoga Springs and Saratoga County? The Battle of Saratoga. We don't win the revolutionary war unless that was a turning point in the Battle of Saratoga. So you might not be the chancellor and I might not be the senator of New York or we might not have The United States Of America. But we got one more other thing and I got to ask you about this. You may remember a guy named Pat Reilly. He coached the New York Knicks. Now the most famous guy for a while was Thomas Edison, developed the GE in Schenectady. But now Pat Riley is the most famous thing from Schenectady because he hailed from Schenectady. But I got to ask you this question, and Bailey's not here. He runs our basketball team here. He had his sneakers on. I don't know if you saw that before. When are the Knicks going to start winning? Can you Oh,

[Chancellor Kumar Samuels, NYC Department of Education]: wow. I mean

[Senator Jim Tedisco]: I still got three you don't have

[Speaker 65.0]: to yell.

[Chancellor Kumar Samuels, NYC Department of Education]: That's a tough one. That's a tough one.

[Senator Jim Tedisco]: They'll come back. Bronson, he can do it, man. I want to ask you this question, serious now. The mayor talked quite a bit and he's been mentioning you have some gifted and talented programs, very successful ones, kind of popular ones. And he's been talking about eliminating those, maybe I'm wrong on that. Is that still in the mix? Is it happening? And what's the process if the gifted and talented programs are going to be removed? Yeah.

[Chancellor Kumar Samuels, NYC Department of Education]: So the mayor never said he was going to phase out or do away with gifted and talented. He has brought up the fact that research shows that it's if you're going to test kids or have an admissions criteria, it's better to do that at third grade. But I'm going to turn it over to our first Deputy Chancellor, Isabelle, to talk a little bit more about this.

[Speaker 63.0]: Good afternoon. Thank you

[Senator Jim Tedisco]: for So the

[Speaker 63.0]: as we said earlier, the gifted and talented admissions for September 2026 is already underway. And there will be no changes to our current practices for the upcoming school year. But parallel to that, we also are exploring how we can make sure that we're giving every student opportunities for acceleration and to build their talents and have an education that aligns to their individual needs. So as the chancellor said a little earlier, we may be looking at does it make sense to start these gifted programs a little later in age than four and five years old as we get to know our students and developmentally see where they go. So this is something we're going to do in collaboration with our communities and with the experts in the field.

[Senator Jim Tedisco]: When you say your communities Families, families, the folks?

[Hearing Clerk/Staff (unidentified)]: Because I

[Speaker 28.0]: know Educators, yes.

[Senator Jim Tedisco]: They're pretty supportive of those gifted and talented programs.

[Speaker 63.0]: Yes, and we will, you know, work with them to develop programs that meet the needs of all students.

[Senator Jim Tedisco]: J. You so much. Thank you for being here.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Go Knicks. J. Thank you, Senator.

[Speaker 62.0]: J. Thank you. J.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: To my list is Assemblywoman Jackson.

[Speaker 40.0]: J. Thank you, chair. Good to see you, chancellor and team. Thank you. Excited for this new partnership that we're going to have. I wanna start by saying community schools work.

[Speaker 32.0]: We all know that, so

[Speaker 40.0]: we need to expand them, as well as CTE and financial literacy in schools starting in earlier grades. Secondly, as chair of the black task force, we know that we have the black studies curriculum that's been

[Speaker 32.0]: around for a while. We've heard some

[Speaker 40.0]: questions on it already. I just want to hear your how you plan to make sure that it's expanded and that more students are taking advantage of the Black Studies curriculum.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, Senate Finance Committee]: No problem.

[Speaker 40.0]: And then also,

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, Senate Finance Committee]: we would love

[Speaker 40.0]: to hear the effectiveness of it. I would like to see a breakdown of the NYC reads and NYC Saul by borough and by district. That would be very helpful because here the Bronx, we always seem to not do as well as other boroughs. And so I would love to see what the numbers are. But congratulations on the positive direction we're going in that way. And then, of course, you being a math teacher, we talked about NYC Solve. I would love to know Common Core, what are we doing with math? Just tell me, what are we doing? Because I have a four year old, I need to know how I'm going to teach him math in the next few years.

[Chancellor Kumar Samuels, NYC Department of Education]: Thank you. Thank you for the questions. You know, the other things that you talked about, I'm happy you said community schools work. You know, District nine is in your district. That's where, as a principal, that's the highest concentration of community schools in the city, actually. And have quite a I think we are very we've done some studies. We're very happy with the outcomes of community schools. That said, you know, when you talk about the black studies curriculum, where we have to do, again, is to really help teachers to figure out how to use all the resources to create a seamless interdisciplinary experience for our kids. And that's what we're doing. We're going to support superintendents and superintendent teams around not just the Black Studies curriculum, but also all of our Hidden Voices work as well. And about math Yes. I'm watching the time. I want to make sure I have So a little bit of time to talk about when we rolled out New York City Reads, we did it from K to 12. When we rolled out math, we

[Senator Andrew Gounardes]: did it

[Chancellor Kumar Samuels, NYC Department of Education]: from high school down. I think that's been a little bit of a challenge for our folks. We do want to make sure our kids are understanding the conceptual understanding of math, that they are focused on sense making because that's what builds their foundation. That's what builds the love of math to begin with as well. But we cannot discount what a parent like you will say, which is, you know, you're saying all these things and my kids don't know their timetable. So they do have to have a combination of conceptual understanding and fluency to really become a strong math student.

[Speaker 40.0]: Thank you, Chancellor. Thank you.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, Senate Finance Committee]: Thank you. Senator Cordell Clear.

[Chancellor Kumar Samuels, NYC Department of Education]: All right.

[Senator Cordell Cleare]: Good afternoon, Chancellor. Good to see you.

[Chancellor Kumar Samuels, NYC Department of Education]: Good afternoon. It's good to see you.

[Speaker 66.0]: I'm just

[Senator Cordell Cleare]: going to try to put all these at one time. You spoke earlier about meeting the 64% of our classes are below the cap. And I'd like to know where the other 36% are, where are they located, what schools that you don't have to tell me now. You can send

[Speaker 12.0]: it Yeah. To

[Dr. Christina Coughlin, Chief Financial Officer, NYSED]: But if you

[Senator Cordell Cleare]: have it. And also, talked about the volume of candidates that are needed. But I also want to know where they're needed, and also are we looking at diversifying those candidates. It's not just the volume, it's who that matters. We need more black male principals. We need to make sure that we have them standing in front of our students. We need a whole diversification, but specifically. Also, as you plan on building, I guess we have to talk. I know Senator Lou asked earlier, and we do need school buildings. But we should talk about the kinds of spaces that need to be included in these new buildings. I'd like us to be a part of that, if there are any coming. And I asked this question of the state folks, the co locations and their impact on traditional schools, and how is that impacting the ability to reduce class size as we have our traditional schools trying to meet those standards, but they are being co located and are already pressed to share spaces.

[Chancellor Kumar Samuels, NYC Department of Education]: Yeah, thank you. Thank you so much. And it's really good to see you in the new you know, though I'm in a new role. I'll say that when it comes to colocations, in general, we see that around the city as something that is makes it a little bit challenging to to to meet the class size mandate. And as you know, we we we have to pay the rent or bills for charter schools if we don't co locate charter schools. So charter schools are co located. And we have to think about what that also means when it comes to the funds that we have to dole out in our city in general. And so we are looking very closely at all of our schools that are not meeting the mandate. Many of our schools do meet it, especially if they're in a situation where they're under enrolled. And as you know, Senator, sometimes it's like the issues pile up on each other for some of our high needs neighborhoods, right? Because we have high concentrations of co locations in some neighborhoods in the city, in Harlem, certainly in Bed Stuy, certainly. And so we have to think about how does that impact the student experience. How does that impact our

[Senator Cordell Cleare]: Especially since they're high needs areas Yes. To begin

[Chancellor Kumar Samuels, NYC Department of Education]: And so those are things that we're looking at, and we'll definitely get you the information that you asked for.

[Senator Cordell Cleare]: Thank you.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Thank you. We've been joined by Assembly members Walker and Sempolinski. Next on the list is Assemblywoman Simon.

[Senator Shelley B. Mayer, Chair, Senate Education Committee]: Thank

[Speaker 52.0]: you. Good to see you again, Chancellor. Think the first time I met you, when you were at District 13, we talked about the science of reading. So I'm glad that you were paying it anyway. So thank you. I have a couple of things on my list. If you address the sort of screening issue and the assessment issue and the school psychologists and how they were trained and all of this is something we all need to talk a little bit more about because that initial PD, you need at the elbow support ongoing for teachers to be able to really pick up and be able to internalize that and incorporate that in their teaching. The other thing I wanted to talk about though is this issue about class size and the availability of space. You know, if you could use your good offices to look into actually doing urban planning. Now I know the mayor would like to do that, but we don't plan in New York City. We do zoning and development. And so we got schools and the 1st Floor of all these apartment buildings, which costs more to run them because you've got too many operations going. And you only get a school the size of the the what the developer is willing to give you, like Dock Street. Why they need a floor and a half? They need two floors. So they don't have a gym that they can use. They have all of those things, then they can't grow at all. Right? So but in Downtown Brooklyn, we planned for commercial. We got 27,000 new units of housing, no open space, no schools, no amenities. We need to not be doing that in the future. And that, I think, is gonna be a path to really addressing the issue about schools and where they are located and whether we're building intentionally for that purpose because we do need to reduce class size. And we also need to make sure that we are repairing the physical plant of some of these schools because I know there are rooms that you can't use. Right? We had people in hallways. We had leaky classrooms. We've made a lot of improvements there, but I think that's a very big issue as well. And the blue book. Right? Do do we understand what we're doing and what can we update that? Find a way to really identify what our needs are, what stock we can use, what we can't use, what those issues are so we can actually have an intentional plan for resolving those issues. Tell me you're going to do that.

[Chancellor Kumar Samuels, NYC Department of Education]: Yeah. So I am definitely going to think about ways to find space that's usable, that our schools to meet their class size. As you know, I'm very serious about that. And then I think you're right about the urban planning view of it. And I think that's something that we, as an administration, as a city, really need to think about. So yes, I'm going to try to do that. And especially around the Blue Book. We have to look at the Blue Book.

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: Thank you.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, Senate Finance Committee]: Thank you. Senator Roxanne Purcell.

[Speaker 67.0]: Thank you. Thank you, chancellor. Great seeing you and your team. I following up on some of the things my colleagues have said, I wanna make sure that you understand the importance of community schools and the need for expansion of community schools. I know my one of my colleagues talked about CTEs. I wanna make sure we understand the importance of that. You know, I have transit tech and a couple of others in my district, and we really wanna see the programs there expanded, and we wanna see an investment in those in those schools. The facilities are decrepit to to just to put it bluntly, and I wanna make sure that the DOE is looking at the the physical plants of these schools. I wanna also make sure that across I have five different school districts in my school in my district. I wanna make sure that the DOE is looking at each building school building and to ensure that there's equity, the resources that are coming into those schools. You know, you go into schools. I was at a school last week and, you know, you walk four stories up. There's a pregnant teacher who has to walk four stories up. Our school buildings are not built for, you know, for what we need today. There are no elevators. There's no escalators. All of these things. So I wanna make sure that you're looking at the needs of each school's the the facility, not just the new buildings that are coming online because it's it's it was really ridiculous. It was a student also who couldn't go up those stairs. I also wanna talk about quickly about the expansion of the black studies program. I want can you give us some highlights of the successes that you're seeing, and what do you intend to do to ensure that we are making sure it across the school system that it's being taught? We just don't want it out there and people say, oh, yes. It's an opportunity for people to use it, but they're not utilizing it. It's like, you know, it we tend to when it comes to certain studies, certain ethnic studies, people look at it like, we don't really have to do it. We can say it's there, but we're not doing anything about it. And and that also makes sure that our students are seeing that there's representation there when when in their classrooms. One of my colleagues talked about civics for all. I would like you for you to go to to my 11 and see the great expansion that they have done in in in civics for all. I'm not sure if you heard about it. It's in every it was in a paper and all of that a couple of weeks ago. They expanded that program. It's not just about just, you know, student government and talk about that. They have created a program where now their elections in the school, the students study to run for elections, and they have created they mimic New York City's election system. And these students had to do, you know, ranked choice voting and all of that. So I would love you to for you to look at that program so that we can offer it to more of the schools, across our district. And finally, in school, the school bus system. I would love for you to talk with your team about it. We have, in my district and some others, where the school buses, I'm gonna finish, are parking illegally in our residential areas and we have to make sure that is stopped.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: I assume there's a question in there somewhere, but we just we

[Speaker 68.0]: did this.

[Speaker 67.0]: We're going get back to All

[Chancellor Kumar Samuels, NYC Department of Education]: right. Yeah. I will definitely

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: get Assemblywoman back to Septimo. I guess she has departed us. Assemblywoman Chang.

[Speaker 53.0]: Get this here. Thank you. Thank you, chair. Thank you, chancellor. Welcome aboard in in your in your new position right now. Going back to my previous colleague, senator Chang, about the GNT program, because his district and my district overlap each other by 80%. I represent Southern Brooklyn, Bensonhurst, Dikka Heights, Sunset Park. They were previously they were always tested before the pandemic, when in four years old and above. Then 2021, 2022, they stopped the testing till now. Right now, it's a form of nomination and lottery. The testing you were talking about in September 2026, would it be starting again at at four years old and above or not? And would it be using the same test on that format? And you were mentioning about data. I'd to see the data talking about not going younger age for G and T. Okay.

[Chancellor Kumar Samuels, NYC Department of Education]: So there's no testing, no. And there won't be any testing for September either. Just to give you a little context, the reason that is is that the vendor that provided the testing did not get approved by the panel of education policy some years ago. So we still have a nomination process. And that's the process that's going to be implemented for in September. After that, like I said earlier, we are going to engage our school communities, specifically our school communities that have the program, have GNT programs. We're going to engage families. And we're going to really think about what is the best what are the best opportunities to move forward. And guided by, yes, the mayors and my own belief that it's more research based. We can talk about that a lot But to think about testing students later rather than at kindergarten.

[Speaker 53.0]: Next question is very important. Last week, we had called absenteeism, or especially in high school level. Huge, almost 30%. What your new administration, what are going to do that's different and and lower the absenteeism, especially in high school level?

[Chancellor Kumar Samuels, NYC Department of Education]: Yeah. One of the things that is important for people to understand that across all grade levels, actually, and across all demographics, One thing they have in common is that they're all coming to school fewer days since the pandemic, right? And so this is a national issue, not only a city issue. And so one of the things that we're looking at is and the calendar has caused us some the school calendar has caused us some trepidation recently. But when we think about the days in the calendar that are the low attendance days, how can we look at really making sure that we're doing things in school that make sure kids are coming on those days?

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, Senate Finance Committee]: All right, thank you. I think I'm the last senator. Senator wants to jump in. Okay, So thank you all for being here. Oh, oh, I thought I called you earlier. Okay, let's let Senator Brisport go first, please. Thank

[Senator Jabari Brisport]: you, Madam Chair. I know it's a long day. And thank you, chancellor, for being here and for sitting with all of our questions. I'm also a former math teacher, so solidarity. One quick pitch before my question, just building off of the colocation question from my colleague. And I know you did bring up the issue with the New York City being forced by state law to pay for the rents of charter schools. I would love, as you're figuring out your plans for getting a path towards meeting the class size mandates, if you do wrestle with the notion and the possibility of what it looks like and how it's helpful if New York State does remove that requirement for New York City to cover the rent of charter schools and how that would impact and make it easier to reach our class size mandates. And then my question is, you're doing a lot of exciting things on math, on literacy. You've had a chance to share a lot of the different ideas already this hearing. But I'm curious if there's anything else you didn't get a chance to share. Would love to

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: hear it. Yeah,

[Chancellor Kumar Samuels, NYC Department of Education]: thank you. I am really committed to our civics for all thinking and curriculum. So I'll get to Maya 11, Senator Prasad, for sure. And if we are going to prepare our kids for the world that we live in, which is super polarized right now, we have to make sure that they understand how to empathize with others, how to really view see others. And I was in a fourth grade class recently, and two students began to talk about the First Amendment. And one kid said, well, you should be able to say whatever you want, just as long as it doesn't hurt my feelings. And then the other kid goes, but what if I'm telling the truth? And then the teacher started to get a little nervous. I could tell, like, she was trying to figure out how to handle this conversation. I think what we need to do is to make sure that our teachers have to the be able to manage those conversations so that kids can really engage across difference. And that's a great example of what I mean when I say schools need to be truly integrated. Because if we don't have that, then we know what we can see instead, right? And I think the Civics for All work that we are doing is truly, truly important in that regard. So thank you for your question. I appreciate it.

[Senator Jabari Brisport]: Thank you.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Santos?

[Speaker 69.0]: Thank you, chancellor, for your time here and your staff. Welcome to Albany.

[Chancellor Kumar Samuels, NYC Department of Education]: Thank you.

[Speaker 69.0]: So I represent Upper Manhattan, which include Inward, Washington Heights, Marble Hill. I know my colleague already alluded to the notion of the expansion of the community school sort of life structure. As someone who worked in community schools as a social worker, I know the impact, and I know it works. So my question to you, what is your commitment to the expansion of the community school model?

[Chancellor Kumar Samuels, NYC Department of Education]: Yeah. So the community school model started in '20 in 2014 or so, 2014, 2015, with about 45 schools. Now we're up to over four nineteen schools. I can tell you with a high degree of conviction that, when I think about and it's not necessarily a program. Community schools are as a strategy, right? There are things you can do from the community schools model across all of our schools. But when we think about the funding that we have in our city and it's not just the DOE funding, the city funding. We're really in what I would say is in stark conditions. And when we talk about foundation aid, when we talk about the rates, regional cost index, when we talk about changing the ways for students with special needs, Like, it will allow us to do a lot of this work. But as we see it now, we know that the schools that really need community schools, which we do it based on needs, so a lot of those schools have it right now. We have to make sure that that is going well. We've seen significant and strong data come out of those schools. So I am a huge supporter of community schools. But just to say that when we have greater needs and not as much funding, then it's hard to really make sure that happens. And the city

[Speaker 69.0]: I have a few more questions.

[Chancellor Kumar Samuels, NYC Department of Education]: Yeah. I'm sorry.

[Speaker 70.0]: I want to

[Speaker 69.0]: get to the other question. Thank you for your response. As a social worker, I I like to see mental health to be universal. Yep. I feel it helps with attendance, for learning. So why we haven't thought about the idea of making mental health universal across the city of New York so that every school, not just community school, public school, have access to quality mental health service. In addition to that, I'd like to also entertain the motion why there's no clear citywide structure for parental engagement in schools. We should have, besides the parent coordinator, a specialist. The parent coordinator need help himself or herself, or they. But we need someone who can cater, who can talk directly work directly with families and students in the school system. Think that's something that is missing. The minute we figure that out, absenteeism will not be an issue.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, Senate Finance Committee]: Thank you. Okay, now I think I'm the last senator. Sorry about that, Senator Bruceport. I had many questions, and I get ten minutes, so I might get through some of them. So you mentioned at the very beginning that you believe you need to hire 6,000 new teachers next year and spend six zero two million dollars I guess, on the new teachers or just on the schools in general?

[Chancellor Kumar Samuels, NYC Department of Education]: J. New teachers. J.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, Senate Finance Committee]: Okay. What's the normal growth every year? Is that an exceptionally big Rubenstein: new need? What's going on?

[Hearing Clerk/Staff (unidentified)]: J. P.

[Chancellor Kumar Samuels, NYC Department of Education]: Great. So first of all, before I forget, Senator Krueger, I did visit that school you mentioned to

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, Senate Finance Committee]: me. Did?

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: J. P. J.

[Chancellor Kumar Samuels, NYC Department of Education]: Was Julia Richmond campus.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, Senate Finance Committee]: Yeah.

[Speaker 71.0]: It's a

[Chancellor Kumar Samuels, NYC Department of Education]: great collocation. I totally do. Signed there last Friday, I think. Good. Thank you. So what I'll say very clearly is that we have we so typically, there are about 4,000 teachers that leave the system, like attrition, so you have to hire those teachers back. And then last year, we hired 3,700 teachers on top of that, right? So we were we got to about 7,700 teachers. So that's like and that was a huge investment, right? Right. 400 and I think four five million. And so this year but and so this year, we're going to need more based on what the principles have filled out in terms of the surveys that they'll find. So we have to do a significant recruitment strategy to be able to get to that. And I don't know, First Deputy Chancellor, if you want to add anything.

[Speaker 63.0]: Good afternoon, Senator. Thank you for the question. So this year, we asked the schools to do a very comprehensive survey around, with their current resources, in terms of space or minor modifications to their space, what they would need to max out their class size as best they could to meet their maximum number. And with those surveys, we calculated that we would need about 6,000 teachers across all subject areas in order for the schools as they exist right now to meet their maximum class size. And that would not get us to 100% across the city. It would not get us to 80%. If everything went perfectly, it would be somewhere around 78% without exemptions. So that 6,000 is above what we would normally need to hire from attrition and normal growth.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, Senate Finance Committee]: And I know that for a couple of years now, we've been seeing a reduction in the number of kids in our schools. Has that changed, or where is that trending?

[Chancellor Kumar Samuels, NYC Department of Education]: That's a good question. Yeah, I think I'm going to have to the most recent numbers during a couple of years ago, we saw an increase specifically around the influx of New Yorkers. And then we saw a slight decrease last year. So I'd have to go look and tell you specifically.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, Senate Finance Committee]: Okay. You can follow-up with me. So people keep talking about school bus issues from all different directions. My just want to make sure I clarify. Is it true that you can't put four year olds and three year olds on school buses only when they hit five?

[Chancellor Kumar Samuels, NYC Department of Education]: Yes. I'll turn that over to Simona Hopkins.

[Speaker 31.0]: So it's my understanding that if they have a mandated service that requires them to take a bus, they are allowed to take buses at that age.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, Senate Finance Committee]: Are allowed to take buses at Are they allowed to take buses at three by themselves?

[Speaker 31.0]: So no, that I do not believe, but I will have to confirm.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, Senate Finance Committee]: I ask because when we started look, I'm a big supporter in expanding to younger ages with the right kind of child care. You have to do it right. But it's also true that when we started pre K under De Blasio, I pointed out to him some districts had such overcrowded schools, he wasn't gonna meet the target. And that included my district. And so I actually had a situation where I was telling everybody, I'm fighting for universal pre k. And then they started universal pre k and told my district, yeah, we don't really have the space for your district. People didn't go go really big on that one. They were like, what are you talking about? We can't get pre k. Because they were being told their kids had spaces in Lower Manhattan, but they lived up in the sixties and seventies and eighties. And you don't put the kid on the subway by themselves nor on a bus by themselves. And they wouldn't let them take school buses at that time to pre K. So I am a bit concerned now that we're going to continue. I think we've had the same issues with three ks in my district. I'm not totally sure at this moment. So I'm worried that we're going to promise people these things. But if they happen to live in very crowded districts, you know, you're not like sending them to Queens or Brooklyn if you have space there. I mean, represent Roosevelt Island also. And sometimes it's had more space. But I had to point out to the Department of Ed, under a different group of people, that the kids couldn't take the tram from Manhattan to Roosevelt Island themselves. And we weren't going to let them swim either. So that wasn't going to be a really good model. We had to keep them on the Mainland for pre k and three ks. So I'm hoping that as you're planning all this and it's tough, I get it that you're actually looking at the geography of where you have the kids, where you have the space for the kids. And it sort of has to match, because you can't just send these kids off on their own wandering around the city hoping they'll get to wherever there's a space for them. So I'm just mentioning that that's a real concern for me for many areas. When Mayor Mamdani was running for mayor, he said he wanted to end mayoral control. And then either right after he won or right before he won I can't remember he decided to change his position. And I hadn't been following what his specific position was, so I'm not criticizing it. I'm just saying, what does that mean? Because now you've said you're not, but you made a big point in your testimony to say that you intend to expand parental participation in our schools, which is certainly the issue I've heard for quite a while. The parents didn't even feel welcome to go into the schools where their kids were and try to be helpful. And they were like, why won't they even let us in there? Which I have to say, doesn't give one pause. When you put your kids into a school and they're told you you're not allowed to go in the building. So what does this mean? We're going have more parental participation, but we're not going to end mayoral control.

[Chancellor Kumar Samuels, NYC Department of Education]: First, I want to circle back a little bit to your enrollment question. Twenty twenty four twenty twenty three, 2024, we went up 6.6%. We went down point 6% in 2024, 2025. And we look preliminary numbers, we haven't had audited registers just yet, but we're looking to it looks like we might be going down 2% for this year. So in thinking about mayoral accountability, like I said before, certainly in my conversation with the mayor when we talked about the agenda that he would like to bring to the city and for me to be a part of, I really thought it would be very difficult to get that kind of a robust, ambitious agenda forward without having mayor accountability, without making sure that across our entire city, we had an opportunity to make sure everyone was on the same page, all of our districts. Now and that includes actually class size as well, right? All of the things that we need to do. However, I think folks really want to make sure that they have a say in what's happening in their schools. And I, for one, I don't believe those two things are mutually exclusive. I think you can have mayoral accountability and have a strong, robust parental empowerment and engagement strategy for our city. But I don't think I can come up with that by myself. I think I need to and the mayor and I need to engage with parents themselves, advocates themselves, to really come up with what can we do to ensure that your voices are heard, and not just that your voices are heard, but that we are solving big problems together, and that you are a part of that decision making process. And that's what we're going to be doing beginning in the next couple of weeks and months.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, Senate Finance Committee]: J. So I heard so many members and he's the chair of education say, I don't know if we're going to deal with this in the budget or something we need to deal with afterwards. And I don't know if I have a right answer or not, by way. I don't think I have an opinion on it other than I think that's the kind of question we're going to want to know the answer to. What does it mean when we're going forward with a different model than we've been under, but not a different model that does away with the concept of merit control and goes back to school boards. Because when I first came into the Senate twenty four years ago, my District two school board was the first one in the city to say, this isn't working. You should do away with us. So I was like running for office for the first time going, wow, that's what my school people want. So it's interesting. So I'm watching carefully. Thank you.

[Chancellor Kumar Samuels, NYC Department of Education]: Thank you.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Assemblywoman Walker.

[Speaker 66.0]: Thank you, mister chancellor, and to your awesome team. It's deeply inspiring to see a black man and a group of diverse women leading the nation's largest educational system. You are shattering glass ceilings and redefining what executive leadership looks like. You do not look like a basketball team to me. That being said, I would like to discuss with you

[Assemblymember Michael R. Benedetto, Chair, Assembly Education Committee]: at And they're in a problem. If you can work with them or comment on that quickly.

[Chancellor Kumar Samuels, NYC Department of Education]: Thank you. Yeah, we can look into that and work with folks. I think, Deputy Chantel, you want to respond to the accessibility piece before?

[Speaker 31.0]: Yes. Sorry, this is going back to Senator Krueger's point around transporting three year olds. The goal is not to do that, right? I think at the core of your point is that we want children as close to home as possible, but sometimes as close to work, because parent choice is at the core of our decisions around seat placement. Sorry to take

[Speaker 42.0]: your

[Speaker 31.0]: time. And so just wanting to say thank you for that noted. We do not transport three year olds at this time, but the goal is to not do that. We want to make sure that we have an accessible childcare and early care program in the city. Thank you, chancellor.

[Assemblymember Michael R. Benedetto, Chair, Assembly Education Committee]: And and let me just say in closing here, I'm not gonna lie to you. I mean, there there there were people in the education community who, for a while, were holding their breath and and wondering, who this new mayor is going to put in charge of our system. I think from your actions over the last three weeks, that you've been, doing what you're doing and by your testimony today that, there seems to be a collective sigh of relief and and a happy relief. Continue, and we will try to be able to continue to help you.

[Chancellor Kumar Samuels, NYC Department of Education]: Well, thank you very much, and our mayor makes good decisions.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Thank you, mister chancellor and crew. This concludes this section of our public hearing. Panel two, you're dismissed.

[Chancellor Kumar Samuels, NYC Department of Education]: Thank you so much. Thank you for having me.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Don't clap your races anymore, do we? Those are the old days.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, Senate Finance Committee]: South. They have another roof. Yeah. Cool.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: SPEAKER Panel A, please proceed to the table. United Federation of Teachers, Michael Mulgrew New York State United Teachers, Melinda Pearson Counsel of School Supervisors and Administrators, Henry Rubio, and School Administrators Association of New York State, Cynthia Gallagher, PhD. K. We gotta

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, Senate Finance Committee]: Yes. You do.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Yeah. We're gonna we're gonna have a a quick delay here. Go on. We just do what you have to do. Because they're gonna wanna talk to him. You know? You had anything. I'd have to get that. Good afternoon, everyone. I see you have an empty chair there. As soon as that chair gets filled, we'll start.

[Assemblymember Michael R. Benedetto, Chair, Assembly Education Committee]: Henry is here. He's here.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: I said empty chair. I didn't say somebody wasn't here. Okay. All right. This is our first panel. Welcome all. I think we should go in the order that you listed on here, so we'll hear from Mr. Mulgrew first. Representative, who's representing? I don't know anybody. Okay.

[Speaker 68.0]: MICHAEL My name is Michael Sill, and I'm the Assistant Secretary of the United Federation of Teachers. And on behalf of Michael Moger, who wishes he was here, and the over 200,000 members of the United Federation of Teachers, I want to thank Chair Krueger, Chair Pretlow for the opportunity to address you all today. You have our full testimony, so I'll just go over the highlighted bullets. Number one on foundation aid as you heard the chancellor say a moment ago, the changes to foundation aid caused New York City students to lose somewhere about $314,000,000 from what they could have expected. And we need to fix the regional cost index. We need to increase the weights for English language learners and students with disabilities. And in a school system where we have over 140,000 students who are experiencing some level of homelessness, we need a weight for them as well. On tier six, we need to make the kinds of reforms that will allow us to recruit and importantly retain the teachers and educators that we serve. And those reforms have to do with age, the penalties for early retirement, and contributions. On child care, clearly, we applaud the governor for her commitment. And we look forward to working with the mayor and all of you to implement 2Care, along with the expansion of three ks, in the best way possible. We recognize the contributions of the home day care providers, including the 8,000 home day care providers that the U of T represents. And we think that one of the ways to recognize that is to begin the phase in of the replacement of the market rate. They need to be able to make it, not just market. On class size, with your help, we've gone from 40% to 60% compliance, as you heard the previous panel say. And that's without displacing any students or families from the schools that they want to go to. Obviously, there is a big challenge in the city when it comes to the school construction authority. But with your help, we believe we're going to get and we just heard the previous panel say as well get all the way to 75 to 77%, somewhere in that realm, just by going through the hiring process, which is what we've engaged in thus far. Teacher centers, they provide the best PD in the entire system, right? They're more cost effective than the vendors that come from outside the system, which are, of course, made up of people who have left the system. That makes no sense. And on community schools, we need to continue the investment in the expansion of community schools, not only in New York City, but across the state. That is the best way to provide the kind of education that our students and our families deserve. Thank you.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Thank you. United Teachers. Nicely.

[Speaker 7.0]: Thank you so much for this opportunity to testify for you today. I would be remiss if I didn't start with a thank you for the many, many years of advocacy on our behalf, and in particular, the investments in foundation aid, universal school meals, distraction free learning, all of the amazing things that have happened in just the last few years. New York has truly shown what is possible when we keep promises to our students. As you all know, fully funding foundation aid in 2023 was historic. Just a few years later, educators across the state are already seeing the impact. Districts are restoring programs, positions are being filled, expanding career and technical education across the state, and we are better meeting the needs of our students. But our work is not done. And specifically around the area of foundation aid, I want to add to what my colleague has said to say that we have four sixty one out of the 700 approximate school districts that are only seeing a 1% increase in school aid in the proposed budget. This is a great start, but this is not enough to sustain our school districts. With a 2% tax cap in place and inflationary costs, this is going to be a challenge. We need to continue to update the foundation aid formula and the foundation aid amount, add weightings or increase weightings for limited English proficiency, for things like homelessness that is not currently accommodated, and regional cost is something that we have only begun to address. I also want to emphasize the need to invest in community schools. We've heard from many people today about the reasons why we should invest in community schools. I want to add one additional one. When you look at California, their recent investments in their community school program showed a 30% decrease in chronic absenteeism. The assembly just had hearings on this topic. I think community schools are a proven method that we could roll this back and start to improve attendance at our schools. We're asking for $100,000,000 categorical investment to double the number of community schools in New York State. I also want to applaud the governor for the investments in UPK. We ask that universal pre K be provided by certified teachers. This is the way that the program was originally intended when it was created. And last but not least, I have to mention fixing tier six. As Michael mentioned, fixing tier six is one of the most important things that we can do to recruit people into the education profession and public service in general. And since I have twenty seconds left, my last thing I'm going to say is the need to focus on civics and media literacy. Our students today are faced with a whole new world where it's very difficult to determine fact from fiction when you read things online. These are key skills that they need as they enter citizenship and go out into the world and participate in our democracy.

[Speaker 23.0]: That was Good

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: timing. School council administrators.

[Speaker 23.0]: Yes. My name is Henry Ruga. I'm the president of the school council administrators here in New York City. Good afternoon, chairs and members of the legislature. Thank you for the opportunity to be here today. You have my full written testimony already, but I'd like to focus on four areas, foundation aid, early childhood education, professional support and development for our school leaders, and school safety. And I concur with much of what said by my colleagues already today. We appreciate the state's continued commitment to public education and foundation that is essential. But from the perspective of school leaders, the question is not whether funding increases but whether we keep pace with what schools really need to do. One clear example is class size. We support smaller classes, but we know this especially matters for the vast majority of our New York City students that need the additional support. But the implementation challenges are real. Schools cannot be asked to meet class size requirements without the sufficient funding, the sufficient space, and the additional supervisor needed to supervise classrooms and staff. In many schools, leaders are trying to solve both facility problems, staffing problems, and budget problems all at the same exact time. We also strongly support the expansion of early childhood programs. Early learning is the foundation. What we need to say clearly though is that expansion does not run itself. Early childhood directors are responsible for compliance, staffing, credentialing, family engagement, instructional quality, and the day to day operations. As this grows, the work intensifies. Right now, we're looking to expand, Chahasid, that we agree with, and and the state is heading in the right direction. But we can't do that without resolving the real issues with the current pre k and four k programs and the serious problem with the disparity in salaries between our community based directors and supervisors and teachers and those in the public sector. That disparity affects recruitment, retention, and program stability. And if we want early childhood to succeed and expand, we have to address these issues. Thirdly, professional development for school leaders is essential. The role of the principal and assistant principal today is more complex than ever before. School leaders are managing instructional shifts, student mental health needs, staff shortages, family communications, new accountability expectations, emerging technologies, changes to what we said today about reading, math, and delivering of instruction. And again, that's all happening at the same exact time. So high quality professional development is critical. And lastly, and most importantly, school safety is paramount for us. Administrators are the ones responding to crisis, managing discipline, supporting students, and we need to make sure that we have the adequate number of supervisors in our system. It's not about people. It's about people, presence, and the capacity to respond in real time and making sure that our staff and our are always safe. Thank you for the opportunity to be with you, Ter, and to continue the conversation. I yield my sixteen minutes to my colleague. Sixteen seconds.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: You're sixteen seconds? Doctor. Gallagher.

[Speaker 26.0]: Legislators, thank you for this opportunity.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Turn your mic on, please.

[Speaker 26.0]: There we go. Sorry. Thank you. Thank you for this opportunity. But more importantly, thank you for your steady and constant leadership in a year marked with extraordinary pressures on our state, our schools, students, and families. These challenges underscore the importance of stable and predictable state funding. Our over 2,000 school administrators appreciate the continued increases in the overall state aid to support their schools. At the same time, however, increased funding highlights a growing mismatch between expectations and structures. Schools are doing far more to date, as we've heard, than ever anticipated when the state aid structures and state aid formulas were designed. For this reason, administrators strongly urge the continuation of the due minimum increase of at least 2% for all schools rather than the proposed 1%. At last year's minimum, where there was concern for the high number of districts on safe harm was that proposed 1%, that concern would even be more significant. We also support a thoughtful reassessment of the foundation aid formula for many of the reasons you've heard today more nuanced per pupil weightings, more accurate regional cost measures, and an increase to the per pupil base amount, guided by a comprehensive successful school study grounded in today's education realities. At the same time, the sustainability of schools leadership cannot be overlooked. Administrators reiterate the urgent need for Tier six pension and COLA reforms to retain experienced leaders and attract the next generation of school administrators. In addition, while we strongly support many of the professional opportunity investments made in the executive budget, such funding was not included for building administrator. Investing their professional growth is essential to ensuring that every other investment in schools is implemented effectively. And finally, administrators urge the legislature to seize on the moment in early care and education. We've heard a lot about pre K today. To be remiss if we also didn't think about the child care expansions that are considered at this time. The proposed investments in child care and pre K represent a rare opportunity, but expansion without alignment risks repeated longstanding gaps. Persistent challenges in early education will continue if systems remain fragmented. We cannot be surprised by lagging reading and math skills or low attendance in pre K and kindergarten when a system of limited child care, limited access to pre K or no pre K. A variety of half day programs in K, full day programs in K, limited childcare areas. This is the moment to strengthen the infrastructure, align childcare, and align school systems. Thank you.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Thank you. Just as a reminder, all members asking questions for now and the rest of this hearing have three minutes, whether you're a chair, a co chair, ranker, bottle of washer, a summons, Benedetto.

[Assemblymember Michael R. Benedetto, Chair, Assembly Education Committee]: I didn't know that. I'm limited. I lost seven minutes. Okay. Yes. I was a school teacher. I'd love being a school teacher. And I greatly admired the people who ran the schools and and I can see the partnership there. You know, you guys kept us on task and we did a great job teaching. It was good. So my admiration is big. And I know you're asking for $100,000,000 for the community schools and that was not the reason why I had the hearing last week about school absenteeism because everybody was talking how that can be affected by good community schools. And so I was glad to do that. Listen, listen, I know teacher resource centers are an important component within the school. We have a problem, at least I always saw it as a problem, that you got these, young people coming out to be teachers and they just left school and and got veery on how to teach and all this. And then they went to the reality of the classroom and wow, they were overwhelmed, okay? And they needed, mentoring to keep them there. And I know teacher resource centers help in that area. There was once a major problem where in New York City, we would lose teachers, you know, after a couple years. Okay? Have we kept records about that? And has that been minimized because of the centers?

[Speaker 68.0]: J. There is data. I don't have it here, but we can get it to you about retention in schools that have teacher centers. And it's exactly what you would expect. I can tell you from my own experience, I taught in a school with a teacher center. I wouldn't be here without it, right? I went through the New York City Teaching Fellows, which was a well intentioned and is a well intentioned program. But you walk into the school not ready. Thank god I had a teacher center. I had a mentor, like you said. And they helped me get through. And I saw so many people who came after me in that school, automotive high school in Brooklyn, get through because of that. And we need to expand it, right? We those kinds of programs to be in every school in New York City because those kinds of things and knowing that you have an end of the road in your career and you don't have to work forty one years like currently under tier six, those are things that keep people into school. And we talk about the problem of recruitment. Obviously, problem of recruitment is mitigated when you have real retention.

[Assemblymember Michael R. Benedetto, Chair, Assembly Education Committee]: J. Thank you.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Thank you. Senator Mayer?

[Senator Shelley B. Mayer, Chair, Senate Education Committee]: Thank you. Thank you to all of you for working with us in partnership over the years. Question about which I've asked the others both in the City Of New York and outside, the number of homeless students or the particular challenges that these students face. We're asking for changes in the formula foundation aid to reflect the additional needs of these students, over 100,000 in the City Of New York, but many outside the City Of New York as well. So maybe, Henry, you could talk a little bit about what's the experience of being a supervisor in a New York City school with a significant number of kids that either live in a shelter or in transitional housing?

[Speaker 23.0]: Thank you so much, Senator, for that question. Totally agree. I think it was Doctor. Betty Rosa who mentioned that there's great overlap. And from the experience of an administrator, when you have students that are in temporary housing but often also have special education needs and or English language learners as well. And as you can imagine, you're servicing the entire child and that child lives in a home, right, in temporary housing. So there's a lot often mental needs, poverty, and the additional resources that we need to support our teachers with to support that child, right? The additional periods of instruction, after school programs, making sure that there's coordination between the guidance counsel, social worker, and the home, and expending a lot of resources and making sure that those children are getting the resources they need to succeed in school. But it does require a lot of time, a lot of funding, whether to have those mental health services. Those partnerships are going to be critical. But it's not just the child and the school, but it's really communicating with the family at home as well.

[Senator Shelley B. Mayer, Chair, Senate Education Committee]: J. Yeah, I think it's important that we try to identify in a very personal way what those needs are so that we can make the case together. I'm a very strong believer in the civics emphasis on civics or re emphasis on what we lost during civics. And Melinda, I appreciate that. Can you talk a little bit about what the specific asks are in the civic space?

[Speaker 7.0]: Yes. So there are three areas. I would start with the first one is the emphasis on civics in elementary schools. So because of the emphasis now since No Child Left Behind on ELA and math because they have a test, the social studies and civics has really been squeezed out of the elementary timeline. And in many school districts that I've visited, civics is taught or social studies is taught as a special. Maybe once a week they even cover social studies. And this way they are not prepared when they actually have an actual social studies course when they get to middle school. And then at the high school level, we need to there's an amazing thing that the state education department has done, which is a seal of civic readiness. But right now, that seal is only offered in half the high schools in New York State. And we want to provide funding so that every school can offer that seal. And then the third thing is around You'll

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: hear the third thing quickly.

[Assemblymember Sarah Clark]: Okay.

[Speaker 7.0]: Literacy. And we need to make sure that we have library media specialists in our schools and that we have the opportunity in professional learning so that we can teach kids to distinguish fact from fiction.

[Senator Shelley B. Mayer, Chair, Senate Education Committee]: Thank you.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Thank you. Assemblyman Smith.

[Assemblymember Doug Smith, Ranking Member, Assembly Education Committee]: Thank you, Chairman. And thank you all for testifying today. With only three minutes, wanted to just touch on something. My assembly district on Long Island includes the township of Islip. There are six assembly members that represent the town of Islip. Within our town is Brentwood and Central Islip, which there has been an application to put a charter school in the middle of our town. NYSET has a lawsuit challenging the fact that as I see it, there is a significant lack of community support to support including this. I personally have been, you know, people have been critical of me saying that it's not very conservative to question the funding of charter schools. And I would respond by saying, it's tough for my taxpayers to have to pay for their excellent home public schools, but then to have to duplicate and in some cases get a lesser experience and have to pay essentially for two overlapping school districts. I don't think that's very conservative and I have some questions there. But can you speak a little bit to that because I find it very concerning for the people I represent?

[Speaker 7.0]: Sure. So our lawsuit specifically addresses something that you put in the law when you created the charter school law. It said that you had to demonstrate that there was local interest and support for that charter school. It also said that you had to take into consideration the financial and programmatic impact on the public and private schools remaining in the existing school districts. This is not happening when these applications are being reviewed by the SUNY Charter School Institute, and that's why we filed our lawsuit. The funding system for charter schools creates extensive problems for our public school systems. And I see Senator Bino over here, and I think about what's happening in places like Hempstead, right, where public school districts are being bankrupt by the extensive resources that are being drawn out by charter schools. We've always asked for accountability and local control. One of the things that we've been pushing for is when charter schools want to open in your community, have a public vote on it. In my school district, if they want to buy a school bus, they have to vote on it. But a charter school can open up in a community with no public input and no public accountability for those resources.

[Assemblymember Doug Smith, Ranking Member, Assembly Education Committee]: Thank you. And, you know, I tend to agree and echo that. You know, again, I don't think this is a political issue. I just think that when we're using public taxpayer dollars, we really need public accountability. And I am very concerned. One of the school districts I represent, while I have thirty seconds left, is sending, I believe, 30 students to a local charter school at a cost of about $400,000 Now, if you do the quick math because people are saying, wouldn't that save the public school district? I can tell you that to educate in this case, 12,000 students versus 12,000 minus 30 students, we're not seeing a savings of almost half $1,000,000. We're just not seeing that. So my taxpayers are concerned that now they're duplicating the school and the number one issue is high property taxes. So, I want to be a good steward of that. So, thank you.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Thank you, Assemblyman. Senator Baino? Thank Welcome back.

[Speaker 25.0]: Thank you and good afternoon. President Person, thank you for raising that point. You know that Hempstead is really challenged to meet the financial responsibilities of paying for the students going to the charter schools. Upward of $107,000,000 is expected to leave that district this year to pay for charter schools, followed by Roosevelt at 18% of the student population and Uniondale at 13%. They're challenged to meet the needs of the students who will remain in the district. We talked about waiting in formulas so that school districts that are losing population might be able to wait based on the needs of homelessness and ELL. And I think that's very important. But I also think it's important that we utilize resources that are available to us to meet the needs of those students in those school districts. And I think community schools is absolutely the way to go. And so, when you talk about $100,000,000 in aid to expand the program, can you talk to what extent the expansion could realize given that type of investment?

[Speaker 7.0]: So there are about 400 community schools across the state right now. And one of the important things when you establish a community school is having director, somebody who is in charge of creating those and leveraging those relationships with outside agencies. United Community Schools from UFT, they have an amazing model that they started in New York City that we are now expanding across the state. When you do that and have a person in that position, every dollar you invest in a community school brings back $6 in return in terms of value to that school district and those students and that family. So it is not only the right thing to do, it's a smart thing to do in terms of that return on investment.

[Speaker 25.0]: Thank you. And then I see that you need $4,000,000 to sustain some of those programs. Can you talk about how many programs might be at risk if we don't fund that $4,000,000

[Speaker 7.0]: So the $4,000,000 is currently supporting the schools that are operating in New York City. And we need to make sure that that community schools funding stays in place, or we would not be able to continue to expand.

[Speaker 26.0]: And if I might, right now, the community schools funding is part of a set aside out of foundation aid. So if we're thinking about expansion, we probably need to think about a different kind of line item or funding stream to do that.

[Senator Shelley B. Mayer, Chair, Senate Education Committee]: Thank you.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: You. So to McCarroll.

[Assemblymember Robert C. Carroll]: Thank you. Good afternoon. Do you have a number for how much it would cost for New York City to meet its class size mandate and how many teachers would have to be hired?

[Speaker 68.0]: J. Thank you for the question. So the previous panel mentioned 6,000 teachers. And then they multiplied that by the average teacher salary currently, right? And so the 6,000 number came from the survey that we did. We have a group. It's the Department of Education, the UFT, and the CSA. And that 6,000 number came from principals from every school in the city who responded to they all responded to the survey. And they said, we could accommodate this many more teachers in our school, right? And that way, we would maximize the space that we have. There was a question about the Blue Book before. We didn't want to go just on Blue Book information. We wanted to get the information from the principals, from the school communities. And so that number would get us to, we believe, the maximum saturation of the space we currently have available. When you talk about the cost of construction, that's a very interesting thing. And I could go chapter and verse on that for a far

[Assemblymember Robert C. Carroll]: longer Let's be period quick because I have some other questions.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: I asked a simple question. J.

[Senator John C. Liu, Chair, Senate NYC Education Committee]: How much

[Assemblymember Robert C. Carroll]: do we think it's going to cost?

[Speaker 68.0]: Cost estimates that are out there right now are highly inflated for construction. One, because we're getting closer to 80% than anybody thought we would through hiring. And two, because the methodology that has been used to say when a new school is necessary is faulty,

[Speaker 23.0]: I would say. G. No, I was just I think you heard it in the department's testimony today. It was pretty accurate. I remember if it was $4.600000000 dollars for this new set of teachers coming in. If you follow the controller's report, in total, it's over $1,000,000,000 But we've been working very well today.

[Assemblymember Robert C. Carroll]: J. Understood. You previously mentioned teacher centers. What do you think your members, what are they interested in most for professional development? Or where do you see the most need for professional development among your teachers?

[Speaker 68.0]: J. Well, I think it really varies from school to school. But certainly, we need to continue the work that's being done on literacy and the science of reading. I heard you speaking earlier about diagnosing and effectively serving students who have dyslexia and other learning needs. There are a lot of people who come in from various programs, and they're not prepared to be able to serve those students from the day they walk into the school. So the teacher center is what is the best way that we have to

[Assemblymember Robert C. Carroll]: J. So what are the teacher centers doing vis a vis evidence based literacy instruction?

[Speaker 68.0]: J. Yeah. So we have been working with the department.

[Assemblymember Robert C. Carroll]: You can follow-up. You can send it to me.

[Speaker 49.0]: Sure, absolutely.

[Senator Dean Murray, Senate Libraries Ranker]: Thank you, chairwoman. And thank you all for being here. I wasn't going to speak on the charter school issue, but I have to say I love your idea of putting up to a public vote, and not just that. And thank you, Assemblyman Smith, for bringing it up because that particular instance is affecting my senate district and school districts there. If you put it up for a vote, make sure we're reaching all of the people affected. Because the fact that they're asking for licensing for CI, but they're hitting Sachem all the way out to William Floyd, is ridiculous. It's also ridiculous that they kind of play mom against dad, because the approval process requires they either get approval through the SUNY Charter Schools Institute or the Board of Regents. Let's go to the people. I agree. What I wanted to talk about was tier six. Back in 2012 by the way, I voted no in 2012. And I voted no for the reason of recruitment and retention. Of course, it was early then. We had to wait and see. We're thirteen, fourteen years in. Tell me the impact not just of recruitment, but really retention. Are we hearing them literally using this as the reason? And do we have some numbers?

[Speaker 7.0]: So at this point, our membership is 50% tier six. So we have reached a tipping point. And we have folks who are now looking ahead at their career and looking at a forty some odd year career. And for many of them, they're wondering, am I going to make it until the end of my career? And so we lose a lot of our members early on in the process. And thankfully, fixed vesting. So now we're creating that stickiness at five years instead of ten. But this is most definitely a concern, not just for our sector in education, but for public servants in general. Everywhere throughout public service, they are having trouble recruiting people into public service. G.

[Senator Dean Murray, Senate Libraries Ranker]: Yes, absolutely. And Doctor. Gallo, you brought up administrators as well. Well, not

[Speaker 26.0]: just the same for building administrators because of the career timeline. When you become an administrator, it's a little bit later. So for us, it's not so much retention for the changes needed to tier six. It's for the recruitment and making sure that our current supply of administrators stays in.

[Senator Dean Murray, Senate Libraries Ranker]: Forty five seconds left. How would you fix it?

[Speaker 7.0]: Well, we're looking for parity with tier four. And I think there are a number of things that have to happen to do that. It has to do with the age, flattening out the contribution rates, and then having the penalties for being in tier six be reduced.

[Senator Dean Murray, Senate Libraries Ranker]: J. Okay. Thank you very much.

[Speaker 68.0]: J. Thirty years should be a career.

[Senator Dean Murray, Senate Libraries Ranker]: J. What's

[Speaker 64.0]: that? J.

[Speaker 68.0]: B. Years should be a career.

[Senator Dean Murray, Senate Libraries Ranker]: Thank you.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Thank you, Assemblyman I'm sorry, Assemblywoman Simon.

[Speaker 52.0]: Thank you. I appreciate hearing from all of you. And I'm glad for the support around structured literacy and science of reading and continuing to work on that. But you're chairman of the mental health committee. And one of the concerns I still have is the impact on our kids of, obviously, cell phones, but also just COVID. And so many young ones who just really didn't develop socialization skills. What are we doing in our schools now to address that issue? The governor's proposed, for example, a teen mental health first aid training. I'm not quite sure what that is and what she means by that. But obviously, we need to work with our teens. But we need to work with our younger kids, too. And particularly for kids with disabilities, teasing, bullying, all of that. Could you address that issue, please? Any of you?

[Speaker 26.0]: You're correct. And the impact of COVID, it's still working through our system, right? Many of those early children in first grade were still not in a kindergarten program very early. So I think, as we discussed last week in another hearing, attendance is a critical problem at the early grades. So I think anything that we're doing or thinking about of looking at how to start improve attendance, either community schools or really working with the parents more like a case management, at least in the early grades. And the advent, of course, of pre K for all four year olds would be extremely helpful.

[Speaker 7.0]: Yes. And I would add investing in our collective care team, social workers, school psychologists, school nurses, we need to make sure that and counselors we need to make sure that there are staff in our buildings that can help when mental health crises come up. I've been in schools where all of the mental health staff are busy when a crisis happens. And staffing is a real challenge.

[Speaker 52.0]: And do you think that some of the care team folks need professional development on sort of the impacts of trauma, for example, through COVID or other kinds of trauma that children are living Especially ICE, right?

[Speaker 23.0]: You so much for your question. It's a conversation that I've had with the previous chancellor. I haven't had the opportunity yet to have that conversation with Kumar right now. But in New York City, we've done a great job hiring hundreds of additional social workers, guidance counselors. But on the social work piece, there's a real lack of support and professional development. The department has, I think, in my opinion, hasn't done a good enough job to hire what we call supervisors of social workers to both develop and support them in their practice. And it's an issue that I think is really important for us to look at in New York City.

[Speaker 52.0]: Thank you very much.

[Speaker 23.0]: Thank you for your question.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Thank you. Jackson.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, Senate Finance Committee]: Hey, yes. Robert Jackson. I was going to

[Speaker 41.0]: say good evening, but it's good afternoon. But if you were here to listen to the chancellor and listen to the commissioner, it helps you to focus about what the needs are. And for me sitting here listening to you and talking about we have to fix tier six to tier four as the chair of civil service and pensions. That's helping me to refocus more directly on each one of you because you know what it is from your membership with respect to wanting to be able to get into tier four or leave the system. And so we want them to stay in. And so we need to work together in order to make that happen. So I'm glad that you're here. I'm glad that I see all of you and understanding that anything that we can do as far as in that position, get in contact with me.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, Senate Finance Committee]: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

[Speaker 41.0]: I appreciate that.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Otis. Otis.

[Speaker 49.0]: Thank you, chair. And thank you folks for being here. I have some hopefully really quick answered questions to hand to you. And I want to note that the teachers across New York State, the supervisors, the administrators are all represented right here, which is great. I don't care who answers my question. My first question is, in 2022, Arizona started a universal voucher program. It was predicted to save taxpayers millions of dollars. Projected cost was $65,000,000 In less than a year, it went up to $735,000,000 Do we here in New York need to go through this same hard knock system to find out that voucher systems don't work? No. Okay. Thank you.

[Assemblymember Michael R. Benedetto, Chair, Assembly Education Committee]: Very Keep sending

[Hearing Clerk/Staff (unidentified)]: me Yep.

[Speaker 49.0]: The second question that I have is about what we commonly call fair share, you know, having the wealthy pay their fair share. I think a lot of people are not knowledgeable on when we're making that request, who are the wealthy. And aren't the wealthy the top 1% that we're considering making $2,600,000 a year? So hopefully with this, a lot of people are going to settle down and worry it's not them that's going to be super taxed or anything. Is that the right number, dollars 2,600,000.0 annually for these wealthy folks?

[Speaker 26.0]: We at this table may not know that salary range. So we may be the bad not the best audience to ask on that one.

[Speaker 49.0]: Okay. It is. It happens to be that amount. The second thing or the third thing, for full disclosure, I am a NYSTIT member. I am forty years in the classroom teacher. And I brag about that all the time. However, I taught, for those who don't know, AP Physics. That was a significantly different type of student than most teachers see throughout the years. And I taught till I was 60 years old. And I'm in tier four. Do you really believe that you are going to be able to attract teachers into this profession if you're demanding that they teach essentially three, four, five years longer than I had to teach? And I loved my job. I I almost cried when I gave it up, but I felt I had to at that point.

[Speaker 55.0]: No. Okay. Very good.

[Speaker 49.0]: Next question.

[Speaker 23.0]: It's tough to hire teachers in the first place. This is just putting it on steroids.

[Speaker 49.0]: I couldn't agree more. I'm going to give you a little clue for that too. The second the fourth thing that I don't know why I'm miscounting. I got to learn my math better. But the fourth thing is I don't know if you heard the question I asked about the 17,500,000 for the teen mental health first aid course that is proposed in the governor's budget. Were any of you consulted about that at all before she put

[Speaker 72.0]: it in there?

[Speaker 26.0]: No. No. Okay.

[Speaker 49.0]: Got to figure out where that one came from. And then finally, I'm going to say, please add my daughter to those who tried to teach and is now no longer teaching.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: ASSONG MINROTH.

[Assemblymember Ed Ra, Ranking Member (Assembly minority designee)]: Thank you, chairman. Good afternoon. I'm wondering if any of you guys

[Speaker 49.0]: from either of your

[Assemblymember Ed Ra, Ranking Member (Assembly minority designee)]: perspectives have any thoughts on just where we're going to need to go to get to where we want to go with UPK in terms of staffing. And, you know, if we obviously, universal means we have to have slots for everybody. And, there has been a shortage of of staff. So how large is that gap? And what do we need to be doing to close it so that when we get a few years down the road from here, we actually can have true UPK in

[Angelique Dingle Johnson, P-12 Deputy Commissioner, NYSED]: New York State?

[Speaker 23.0]: J. If I may, Subliman, thank you for that question. Think it's a great question. I was having a conversation with Senator Krueger earlier. There's a huge pay disparity between our community based centers that have day care centers and those that work in our public schools. I represent members in that category, and 90% of them are black and brown women. Their average salary is about $65,000 contractually, while my members who are predominantly white females in the DOE are making $140,000 And so the moment they get certified, they leave. And it's destabilizing the system. Same holds true for the teachers that are there. Once they get certified, they're out. They're to be a member of the U of T with except for two or six but with a better salary, you know? And so I mentioned that myself, we have a current problem now with just getting enough staff to fund three ks and pre K. How we get to two ks is going to take some work. We need to solve the current problems in the system. That's not including all the red tape and all the other stuff. That's too much to talk about this time. But I think that's one of the central issues. Thank you for the question.

[Assemblymember Ed Ra, Ranking Member (Assembly minority designee)]: J. Yeah. And then from, I guess, the side of the administrative side, one of the things the per pupil aid is great, and I think we'll move the ball forward. But the other pieces of this, there's staffing and then obviously physical space.

[Speaker 23.0]: Space.

[Assemblymember Ed Ra, Ranking Member (Assembly minority designee)]: Capital. I hear from a lot of my districts that that is their obstacle to getting something up and running, is they just don't have the space.

[Speaker 7.0]: So can I answer this one?

[Senator Shelley B. Mayer, Chair, Senate Education Committee]: Got it.

[Speaker 73.0]: Please.

[Speaker 7.0]: What we've seen across the state is that when there's an interest in doing this, they can find the space. In districts that I visited just this year, I've seen UPK at a high school, where they only had high school space. So they put the UPK in the high school. And now they actually have the high school kids come down and work with the little kids and are doing early childhood education for high school kids, right? The next generation of NYSENAYers. And I've seen temporary classrooms set up so that they could have UPK in the schools. You all made UPK space, building Audible a couple of years ago, which has really removed the obstacle. It's just a matter of doing the planning to create the space, especially right now when enrollment is down in so many districts.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Thank Thank you. Otis.

[Speaker 28.0]: Thank you so much. And I only have three minutes, so I want to at least start with UFT and NICE with a question about digital inclusion, digital equity, access to devices for students, and where there are gaps in districts in the city around the state. The teacher's perspective, because it's sort of extra work for a teacher to know which kids have broadband access, which kids don't, who's able to do work at home, who's not? Any sort of read on the ground on the inequities of this and how it affects teaching?

[Speaker 68.0]: Well, certainly we learned a lot during the pandemic, right, because we had that sustained period of time where people were out. That changes, right? A student might have access to the internet at a certain time, and then they don't. And so in the situation we're in now, where we had a snow day on Monday and students stay at home, we have to collect data kind of in fits and starts, right? But we know that that's an issue. I think the department is doing what they can to overcome that in terms of devices. But that connectivity continues to be an issue that we have to work on for sure.

[Speaker 28.0]: Melinda, you want to add anything to that?

[Speaker 7.0]: J. I would just add that I think are digital gaps in access as well.

[Speaker 28.0]: And I invite the two of you to chime in from your perspectives on just how districts are dealing with meeting this need.

[Speaker 26.0]: I couldn't agree more with what our colleagues have already said. We are coordinating those same kind of surveys. And certainly, COVID has certainly taught us a lot about where those gaps are.

[Speaker 23.0]: And I agree with Michael. Think the department here in New York City has done the best they can so far. But it's definitely a gap that needs to be addressed, for sure. J.

[Speaker 28.0]: Thank you very much. Certainly, invite you all to stay in touch with me and my colleagues on this issue, which is really one. Kids, if they don't have the access, they can't really grow the way they should. And the gaps are out there. You have kids going home, they don't have their own device at home, competing with other family members, they can't keep up. It's a real problem. So thank you very much.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: J. Thank you. And I guess I'll close it out with one quick question. Do any of you know or do all of you know the differences between the pension systems tier six, I'm referring to and our neighbors, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Connecticut? How they compare?

[Speaker 7.0]: Not off the top of my head, but we can get that for

[Dr. Jeffrey Matteson, Senior Deputy Commissioner, NYSED]: you. I

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: would appreciate that because I'm hearing from several entities in the state how tier six is such is as bad as they say it is. And I'd just like to know what we're up against, what we're comparing it to. That is it.

[Speaker 26.0]: Thank you.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Thank you very much for your time. Appreciate your testimony. And I'll now call the next panel, panel D, the conference of big eight school districts, which I I'm sorry. You called it big five. I'm calling it the big eight because there are three additions there. Jennifer Pirozzolo, the superintendent of Buffalo School Districts, Bichotte Hermelyn. Syracuse Superintendent Eric Rossa. I'm sorry, that was Rochester School District. Syracuse School District's Pam Odom, Yonkers School District, Annabel Solaire, Albany School District Superintendent Joseph Hockinter, Mount Vernon School District, DiMario Strickland, and Utica City School District Christopher Spence.

[Chancellor Kumar Samuels, NYC Department of Education]: I

[Speaker 38.0]: did mine from memory. They said, oh, no, we're not prepared. Everybody pulled out

[Senator Jim Tedisco]: a sheet of paper.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: They're coming back.

[Chancellor Kumar Samuels, NYC Department of Education]: Okay. Here we go. I want

[Speaker 54.0]: to call you.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, Senate Finance Committee]: Hey, how

[Senator Shelley B. Mayer, Chair, Senate Education Committee]: are you?

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Good afternoon, everyone.

[Speaker 47.0]: Good afternoon.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Ms. Pyle, good afternoon. See your organization growing to the big eight.

[Speaker 47.0]: Big five plus.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Big five plus? Okay.

[Speaker 47.0]: So if it's Okay with you, we were going to go in order of seniority after me and then G.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Seniority, I was looking at you guys are all newbies. I mean, Buffalo, you got there August 2025. Then Rochester, you were March 2025. Syracuse, November 2025. Oh, an old timer. Albany, May '23. Mount Vernon, May 2025, Utica, August '4. What is it like, superintendent shuffle? Because I know where two of you came from, and then two of you went there. So it's kind of like sleight of hand going here. But I'd rather not go in order to seniority. I'd like to go in order that your seat is we'd go right across. No, I'm sorry. The way we called them off. You're first, then Buffalo.

[Speaker 47.0]: Sure. Problem. J.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Rochester, Syracuse, Yonkers, all that that

[Hearing Clerk/Staff (unidentified)]: I I

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: J. Vernon, and Utica can close it out.

[Speaker 63.0]: J. No worries.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: That's not a problem.

[Speaker 47.0]: J. That's perfect. It's perfect. So I'll speak briefly, and then we'll turn it over to Buffalo. Thank you. And just, yeah, you know that some have moved around. But despite that, we have decades and decades and decades of experience.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Some have moved around. Everyone has twenty years experience. And you all just got there. So everyone has moved around.

[Speaker 47.0]: So I've been at the Big Five for, I think, twenty eight years. Good Well,

[Chancellor Kumar Samuels, NYC Department of Education]: I'm blessed,

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: I should say.

[Speaker 47.0]: Thank you for providing us with this opportunity today. And thank you for your unwavering commitment to serving the needs of urban education in New York State. We were pleased that the 'twenty five-'twenty six budget incorporated several modifications to the foundation aid formula, including an update to the poverty measures, increased weightings for English language learners, and limited adjustments to the regional cost index. We urge you to continue to update the formula to ensure that it accurately reflects the unique needs of the students we serve, including through refinement of the, regional cost index and additional pupil weightings. We'd also request that you eliminate the set aside requirements and pull community schools dollars out and make that a standalone program. As you're well aware, we support school choice in affording parents options. However, we remain deeply concerned about the funding formula for charter schools. Charter schools expansion in saturated school districts should be limited, and the Board of Regents should be designated as the sole authorizing authority. Our school districts operate some of the most innovative and successful CTE programs in the country. We're grateful for the increase to special services aid and the expansion to ninth graders. That was a tremendous, tremendous thing for us. We urge you to continue to increase investments in our career and technical education programs. The governor's proposed consolidation of pre K programs coupled with the increase in state support will give our districts the resources they need to continue to operate these very valuable programs. We also urge the state to hold our districts harmless from cuts due to pre k declines and enrollment that are beyond their control. Many of our pupils have limited access to health and mental health services outside of the school day, and school health funding has been frozen for years. We urge you to provide additional targeted school health funding. The current transportation aid mileage limitations are not aligned with the conditions in our urban schools. The state's taken action to address these safety conditions in districts outside of the big five, but they have done nothing to afford students and the large cities those same protections. The state must fully reimburse school districts in the big five for school transportation below the 1.5 mile instance and instances, rather, where there are school safety issues. In closing, we ask that the state commit to providing additional funding in order to support successful implementation of the new graduation standards. Both the New York State Education Department and the Big Five school districts will require expanded resources to implement the new requirements with fidelity. Thank you again for this opportunity. I look forward to working with you in the coming weeks and months. And we stand prepared to provide any information that would be helpful to you.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Thank you.

[Speaker 47.0]: You. We're going to turn it over to Buffalo.

[Speaker 54.0]: All right. Great afternoon. My name is Doctor. Pascal Mubenga, Buffalo Public Schools. As the chair said, I've been there almost for four or five months. Buffalo Public School, we are so grateful with the support from the governor proposal for UPK. So we're feeling really good that's going to help us really to leverage our students so that they'll be ready as they're coming to us. So we are really grateful for that. Our number one ask or request will be pretty much health services grant. Currently, we're receiving about $5,300,000. We are asking that you consider to add $96,000,000 there. That will help us tremendously. As you know, since COVID, the cost of hiring those nurses has really pretty much doubled. And I think the additional $6,000,000 will go a long way. Currently, we're using our general fund to be able to subsidize to that particular item. So the other ask is going to be smart smart schools I mean, school bank act. We are really asking somewhere around $10,000,000. As you know, with digital divide, with the community we're serving, an average, pretty much somewhere around 10 to 20% of our devices, we have to refurbish them every year. So we really need that fund so that we can make sure that our students are really competitive and they have the devices to continue their quality education. The other ask is our special education. We are really struggling in that area. Buffalo Public School, we are serving roughly about eighteen percent of our students being labeled special needs students. Even though the enrollment went down, but the needs has tremendously pretty much doubled. So we need assistance in that particular area. When it comes to social worker and school guidance counselor and the school psychologist, we are asking additional $3,000,000 in that area. Since COVID, all the SR fund has gone, and we still have those mental health needs that we really need to sustain. Then the last point is about charter schools. Buffalo public schools, we have charters that's pretty much taking about one out of three students. Roughly about 28% of our students are going to charter school. Our ask is pretty much we are requesting a moratorium for charter schools. As they're leaving us, as you know, the need's still there, the fixed capital's still there. I think if we have a moratorium, that will help us tremendously. Thank you for the opportunity to be here and present our needs.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Thank you for testifying. Rochester?

[Speaker 74.0]: Yeah. Good afternoon. I'm Eric J. Rosser, superintendent the Rochester City School District. I want to extend a special thank you to the chairs of this committee, the Rochester delegation, and the entire legislature. I'm grateful for your commitment to meeting the unique needs of public school students across the state of New York. For Rochester, this is a year of recalibration and revisioning how we support students, teachers, as well as our families. We're strengthening what works, addressing what does not work, aligning our systems more intentionally around student outcomes. Through initiatives like Strive for Five, which focuses on improving daily attendance and reducing chronic absenteeism, and an emphasis on literacy, where we're building the conditions students need to succeed academically as well as socially. Rochester serves as one of the highest needs student population in New York State. Allow me to repeat that. Rochester serves one of the highest needs student populations in New York State. Our students bring tremendous potential into our schools every day and they rely on public education system that is adequately resourced, flexible, and responsive to their needs. While we appreciate the proposed increase in foundation aid, recent state aid runs reveal a significant concern that requires immediate attention. The flawed charter school transitional aid formula coupled with mandatory charter school tuition increases, which results in a projected $11,000,000 increase in spending. In the 2627 school year, our district will pay more than a 155,000,000 in charter school tuition and associated costs. Nearly 30% of Rochester Public School students attend charter schools. Charter school selective enrollment process impacts our district which continues to serve a disproportionate share of students with disabilities and English language learners. These funds funding issues create an imbalance that threatens our ability to sustain core instructional programs and essential students. We respectfully request the state to reassess the charter school tuition model, expand transitional aid for high need urban districts, limit charter school saturations in cities like Rochester, and strengthen accountability through a unified authorization framework. The executive budget does not designate the additional funding for the Rochester City School District School Services Grant. This 1,200,000.0 investment supports critical physical and mental health services to stabilize students, support families, and ensure children are ready to learn. The absence of this funding will have an immediate consequence on our community. As we continue this year, a recalibration

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Go on, on, on, finish. Don't finish, but

[Speaker 74.0]: Yeah. As we continue this year recalibration, we ask the state to partner with us in ensuring funding systems are predictable, equitable, and aligned with real conditions on the ground. The choices made in this budget will determine whether high need school districts like Rochester can sustain the programs our students rely on. And lastly, we ask for your partnership, your continued partnership, to ensure all public school students have access to opportunity and stability. Thank you for your leadership and all that you do

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: for the

[Speaker 74.0]: state of Rochester excuse me, New York.

[Senator Shelley B. Mayer, Chair, Senate Education Committee]: Sarah Clark.

[Speaker 75.0]: Good afternoon. My name is Pamela Oldham, and I am the proud superintendent of the Syracuse City School District. And I would like to thank you for allowing me the opportunity to be here today to discuss the executive budget from the perspective of the big five, more specifically, our students in Syracuse. We are thankful that the governor has taken into consideration the consumer price index increases that our district will experience in the 2627 school year. We are faced with increased labor expenses, and we compete against wealthier suburban count against our wealthier suburban counterparts for highly qualified staff, increased transportation costs, and health care expenses that will rise 8% in the coming school year and are projected to rise another 12% the following year. These are increases that we have little control over, so we greatly appreciate the additional revenue proposed. With that being said, we are disappointed in the fact that it's been over a year since the Rockefeller report on the Foundation Aid formula was released, and only marginal changes have been made. The changes that were made have had a positive effect on our funding, but we are aware that there are more changes that are needed for this formula to be equitable for all school districts and students in New York State. With over twenty two percent of our students in need of special education services and almost twenty percent of our students identified as English language learners, further revisions need to be made to equitably account for the needs of these student populations. The current formula includes limited weightings for these and other high need special education students, but also doesn't differentiate for the severity of their needs. The formula also does not provide state aid for students enrolled through age 22, nor does it include expanding the allowability for transitional programming. Our combined wealth ratio of 31 is less than onethree that of the average New York State school district. The school system has no control over our community's wealth, yet we are penalized by the minimum limit within the income wealth index in the current formula. Also, due to the expiration of federal stimulus funding through sources like ARPA, we will need continued state aid increases and funding to adequately address the academic, social, emotional, and technological needs of our students. Our schools are looked upon by our community as a safe place to go for assistance, and we have an obligation to do all we can to assist them, whether it's through community schools, after school or summer programming, or partnerships with mental health providers, the district requests flexibility in how we can meet the needs of our students and families. Our district recently opened the first regional STEAM high school in the state with a cohort of ninth grade students in September 2025. Special services aid and additional career and technical education funding

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Go, go, go.

[Speaker 75.0]: Okay, funding must be increased. As we now partner with 19 school districts in three counties within the district, we have expanded our CTE programming into all high schools, even implementing exploratory programs in our middle schools. It is critical that these programs receive additional per pupil allocations to support these CTE pathways. Finally, I wanna touch on our reading and math intervention initiatives. It's important that we continue to support our students with reading and math interventions. We need to ensure that our students have the necessary skills to succeed in today's world, and reading and math are critical, are a critical part of that. By continuing to invest in reading and math interventions, we can help our students achieve their full potential and succeed in school and beyond. On behalf of the students and families in the Syracuse City School District, I thank you for your continued support. Thank you.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: You.

[Senator Shelley B. Mayer, Chair, Senate Education Committee]: J. Yonkers, you're up.

[Speaker 65.0]: J. Good afternoon, chairpersons, distinguished members of the legislator, and special shout out to the Yonkers delegation. My name is Aniwa Soleil. I'm the superintendent of Yonkers Public Schools, which probably services 24,000 students in New York's third largest city. I thank you for the opportunity to speak tonight on behalf of my students, families, the educators that I serve. Last year, I asked this legislator to protect our progress, to protect the investment, and to protect Yonkers public schools. That message is even more urgent today. I wanna acknowledge that the executive budget gets some things right. The statewide increase in school aid, the full funding of the foundation aid formula, and the 1,500,000 literacy pilot project to support our district along with our teachers of tomorrow. These investments matter and they show that Albany sees Yonkers, but they do not solve our structural funding challenge. Yonkers operates in the highest cost region in New York State, yet the foundation aid formula and the reimbursement structures for Yonkers still fail to reflect the real cost of running schools within our community. Because of this, we have relied on fund balance, reserves that are now nearly depleted. This is not sustainable. At the same time, gaps remain in critical areas like mental health staffing, special education costs, and universal pre k funding that penalizes districts when enrollment fluctuates. Without change, we risk cuts to art, music, language programs, counseling, after school activities, and even further school reconfigurations. These cuts would undermine the very progress the state has invested in, and that progress is real in Yonkers. Yonkers is the only big five school district with a ninety percent graduation rate. We are nationally recognized for graduating boys and young men of color at the highest rates in the country by the Obama Foundation. But this success is fragile and it deserves to be protected. So today, I respectfully ask the legislator to take three essential actions. First, fix the foundation aid formula by updating the regional cost index so Yonkers is funded equitably. Second, protect universal pre k expansion by adding enrollment stabilization safeguards. Third, provide sustainable funding for our community schools which have proven to strengthen attendance, trust, and outcomes. Our students are capable, our staff are committed, our community is supportive. We have shown what is possible when urban districts are resourced fairly. Again, I urge you, protect our progress, protect the investment, protect Yonkers Public Schools. Thank you.

[Speaker 22.0]: Albany.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Thank you. Albany?

[Speaker 76.0]: Alright. Good afternoon. My name is Joseph Hockreiter, proud superintendent right here in the City School District of Albany. And for many of you, you're home away from home. And thank you for inviting me to share our priorities. The state of New York has made great progress in delivering fiscal equity for students, families, and taxpayers in high need school districts, particularly in Albany. In our school district, the commitment to fully fund foundation aid by the twenty twenty three-twenty four school year closed an annual shortfall of more than $26,000,000 We continue to be grateful for the state's commitment to equity and your recognition of our community's unique needs in Albany. That's reflected once again in the Governor's budget for next year. It's uplifting for everyone in our community to know that you see us and that you hear us. Your steadfast commitment to equity means even more in times like these. Albany is a richly diverse city that also faces a child poverty rate among the highest in our state and nation. And as we look nervously toward the future, we ask that you maintain that focus on funding equity and on the unique needs of individual school districts and communities. With this in mind, we'd like to note some of the unique fiscal challenges we face right here as we serve New York's capital city. 63% of our city's property is tax exempt. Nearly one in three children live in poverty. Charter school over saturation for years has been among the highest in our state and nation. A new charter school opened this year in Albany, a new charter school is opening next year in Albany, and still another new charter school looms for the following year. English language learners comprise of nearly 20% of our enrollment and we value all of the diversity deeply and we're committed to providing the intensive academic programs and wraparound services that our students need and deserve to thrive. I'd like to conclude by highlighting two priorities for us in Albany. One, support and expand the diversity of New York's teaching workforce. We know that you are keenly aware of the looming teacher shortfall in New York and we applaud the meaningful steps the state is taking to address this. In Albany, we're planning for a new CTE pathway to encourage our students to choose the teaching profession and prepare them for career success. We're uniquely positioned for this through our longstanding commitment to our own robust CTE program under the roof of our high school. Second, the continued support for social, emotional and mental health services. We also commend the state for its commitment to students' social, emotional, and mental health needs. It remains critical for school districts across the state and certainly here in Albany. Thank you again for the opportunity to share our needs.

[Speaker 74.0]: Thank you.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Wendy Earnen.

[Speaker 50.0]: Great afternoon. Assembly Ways and excuse me. The Assembly Ways and Means Committee, the Senate Finance Committee, the Assembly and Senate Education Committee. I am doctor DiMario Strickland, proud superintendent of the Mount Vernon City School District, where I proudly serve 6,500 students across 13 schools. Here's our reality. Mount Vernon serves a highly vulnerable population. Seventy three percent of socioeconomically disadvantaged, twenty one percent students with disabilities, ten percent English language learners, six hundred and seven hundred and sixty seven of our students are not in permanent housing. We operate under state monitoring through June 2027 with an annual budget of $272,000,000. Yet, we face a double burden. Before serving a single student, we send $14,900,000, nearly 5.5% of our entire budget, directly to charter schools. Simultaneously, the foundation aid formula penalizes us for Westchester property values, while ignoring that we serve students with needs comparable to my big five plus three counterparts, but receive a fraction of the per pupil foundation aid. This is what we cannot invest in because of these things. Repairing aging HVAC systems, roofs, and electrical infrastructure. $416,000,000 in total would be needed to bring my schools up to par. The worst part, that doesn't even include academic enhancements. Reducing our 200 to one school student to school counselor ratio, mental health is a real thing. School counselors help with this. There are even more large demands, such as completing the FAFSA, which is time consuming. Lowering special education caseloads for thirteen seventy four students with disabilities. And, might I add, generally in more restrictive settings. Expanding universal pre kindergarten and mental health services. Currently, I have only two school based health centers. What we need, we need full foundation aid funding and formula reform. Mount Vernon students deserve equitable funding based on actual need, not geographic assumptions about wealth. We need more funding for our pre k three program. Currently, I have a wait list of three ten students, while 310 students, while only 36 are being served due to fiscal constraints. Further, the math and literacy briefs require funding for professional learning for staff. Also, looking at the cost index will help me be competitive with all of the districts around me that are poaching teachers. And CTE, please include ninth grade in the formula. Support bill A06827 that will help with our modernization. Oppose charter school funding expansions. And reform IDA tax incentives and pilot agreements. When they build those apartments, those are the students we serve. So why do they get to erode or evade the taxes? And the bottom line is, our students deserve funding equity. They deserve to shine. Thank you.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Thank you. Utica. All

[Speaker 38.0]: right. Good afternoon, chairpersons and distinguished members of the legislature. I'm Doctor. Christopher Spence, superintendent of schools of the Utica City School District. Thank you for the opportunity to testify today and share the funding priorities of the Utica City School District as they relate to the governor's 2627 executive budget and our local needs. Utica is a high needs, high potential urban school district that is deeply relying on state aid. For the 2627 school year, approximately 83.4 of our general fund budget will be supported by the state while only 9.6% come from local property taxes. This limited local capacity constrains our ability to absorb escalating contractual and benefit costs while meeting the increasingly complex needs of our students. Foundation aid accounts for over 70% of our state aid of our total state aid, And it has historically allowed districts like Utica to target investments where they have the greatest impact on student learning. And as a result of your generosity, Utica is proud to say that we utilize those resources strategically. And results are measurable. Our most recent New York State assessment results show significant academic growth across core content areas. Proficiency in grades three through eight English language arts increased from 31% to 40%, while mathematics rose from 36% to 41% year over year. In both subjects, our students met or exceeded state growth benchmarks demonstrating that target investments when paired with strong instructional systems yield results. These gains reinforce our strong support for several initiatives included in the governor's proposal. First, back to basics in math aligns directly with our district strategy. Utica has invested more than $1,600,000 to deploy math interventionists in every elementary school and nearly 500,000 in partnership with American Institute for Research to strengthen instructional practices and monitoring. However, to close the remaining achievement gaps, we estimate the need for three to five additional math interventionists per elementary school at a cost of approximately $2,400,000. Second, high impact tutoring remains essential. Currently, Utica has a one fifty three to one ratio of students to reading teachers and a two seventy two to one ratio for math interventionists at the elementary level. These ratios limit our ability to intervene early and consistently to close early literacy gaps, particularly in the primary grades. We estimate the need for 30 additional reading teachers requiring $2,400,000 in sustained funding. Third, the teacher pipeline support is critical. With over 50 instructional vacancies, particularly in high needs areas such as special education, an investment of $1,500,000 would allow us to implement salary incentives, mentoring, professional learning structures to not only recruit but retain highly qualified educators. In addition, we have several district specific priorities. Our newly built career and technical education program aligns with the New York State's Portrait of a Graduate and graduation measures, which will serve up to 1,200 students across 12 pathways. I'll continue. While the district has invested $34,000,000 in facilities and equipment, continued special services aid of $5,400,000 annually is essential for long term sustainability. Our award winning Raiders extended day after school program is projected to serve 1,300 students in 2627 and will require an additional $1,500,000 to meet the growing demand. And finally, rising needs in special education and English language learning services with nearly 20% of our students classified as ELLs and more than 50 languages spoken require an additional $3,000,000 combined to ensure adequate funding and sustained programming. In closing, our district's progress demonstrates what is possible when districts are entrusted with stable, targeted state investment. Continued partnership with the legislature will allow us to build upon these gains and ensure that every one of our students has access to high quality and rigorous educational programming. Thank you for your support.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Thank you. And just so, what's the difference between finally and then in closing?

[Speaker 38.0]: I guess I was being circumlocutory. I guess I was being reverse circumlocutory. Thank you.

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: Thank you

[Speaker 38.0]: for the former English

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Benedetto. J.

[Assemblymember Michael R. Benedetto, Chair, Assembly Education Committee]: Thank you

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: very much

[Assemblymember Michael R. Benedetto, Chair, Assembly Education Committee]: for being here today, especially those who were here last week for my hearing. We'll send you back to your home district so you can get down to work. Listen, first off, Buffalo. Mr. Superintendent, did I hear right? Did you say eighty percent of your students are in some way have a classification of special education?

[Speaker 54.0]: It's eighteen percent.

[Assemblymember Michael R. Benedetto, Chair, Assembly Education Committee]: 18. Oh, I

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: thought 80 years

[Speaker 68.0]: old. Boy, I

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: was really worried.

[Assemblymember Michael R. Benedetto, Chair, Assembly Education Committee]: I was wondering what was going on at Buffalo. It could have been the air up there. I don't know. Listen, we've got a lot of mandates here from It could

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: have been a rocket.

[Assemblymember Michael R. Benedetto, Chair, Assembly Education Committee]: From the state. And you talk about mental health, and there is a emphasis on that. Do we have in your districts enough personnel? Do you have problems filling your needs? That's my question directed at nobody in particular. Yeah,

[Speaker 65.0]: I would just say these are some ratios for Yonkers, just to give you some perspective. One school psych college for every four ninety three students, one guidance counselor for every three eighty students, and one school social worker for every 1,100 students. And it's just because we just don't have the ability to offer more opportunities to join the team.

[Assemblymember Michael R. Benedetto, Chair, Assembly Education Committee]: I'd take that as a no.

[Speaker 48.0]: Correct. Yeah.

[Assemblymember Michael R. Benedetto, Chair, Assembly Education Committee]: So we have a new mandate from the governor. I'm not really sure what she wants done, but she wants some sort of mental health counseling done and has allocated $17,500,000 for it. Number one, can you clarify in your own mind what she's looking for here? And how do you guys propose to meet that challenge?

[Speaker 47.0]: Yeah. Do you want to I think so clearly, there's a deficit. And frankly, this was exacerbated when the federal funds were exhausted because we had positions that we wouldn't want to put them on grant funds like that, but we did. With regard to those funds, we are still exploring how that would work, how they could be utilized, and what the mandate would be so we can get back to you with further information based upon a deeper analysis and conversation.

[Assemblymember Michael R. Benedetto, Chair, Assembly Education Committee]: Thank you very much.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Senator Mayor?

[Senator Shelley B. Mayer, Chair, Senate Education Committee]: First, please, thank you to all of you. And I think you know that we have prioritized the big eight now, we shall call it, and certainly my hometown. Thank you, Superintendent Solaire, for your leadership at home. And am in my short time. I have a few questions. I know that Mayor Ryan, who used to be our colleague and I'm just going to channel him for one minute. At one time, there was a plan to close some schools in Buffalo. Is that no longer on the table?

[Speaker 54.0]: That's still on the table. As I said, I just got here about five months ago. We went through that process, but it did not work really well. We are bringing consultants to be able to work with us. That's still on the table. We really want to right size our district, yes.

[Senator Shelley B. Mayer, Chair, Senate Education Committee]: The board has not voted on it yet?

[Speaker 54.0]: No, not yet. They will eventually.

[Senator Shelley B. Mayer, Chair, Senate Education Committee]: Okay. Second question is the literacy project in the Yonkers schools, who would run that?

[Speaker 65.0]: J. We were obviously surprised that it was in the budget, we're excited.

[Dr. Christina Coughlin, Chief Financial Officer, NYSED]: J. You and me.

[Speaker 65.0]: B. I do believe it is in partnership with another organization with us. So I forget the name off the top of my head. But we would be working with, in partnership, us and I believe Rochester are the two pilot districts. So we're excited because we've done a lot of work with the Science of Reading and SUNY New Paws. But I believe this is another entity.

[Senator Shelley B. Mayer, Chair, Senate Education Committee]: Oh, Okay. And then on this issue of charter saturation, Albany, certainly Mount Vernon, many of you have. We have a number of bills in the Senate I carry some that really try to limit when there's such high saturation of charter participation, you lose all this money. The more detail you can give us on the amount of money actually lost by this significant percentage of students who transfer and the fact that they don't necessarily stay the whole year and the fact that they have fewer ELLs and special needs kids, the more you give us, the better it will be to press forward on our bills. There was one other question I had here. Oh, on immigration issues generally, which I've asked because of the schools that you have, have any of you had direct experience with ICE either coming to your school or to your district? And if you have, have you been able to keep them out of your school?

[Speaker 74.0]: We haven't had any issues with direct contact between school district and ICE. However, our communities in which our schools sit in will certainly continue to be terrorized by the presence of ICE.

[Senator Shelley B. Mayer, Chair, Senate Education Committee]: Yes, I know that's true. And has it resulted in reduced or more absenteeism in any of your districts? I know in Yonkers, from time to

[Speaker 74.0]: That's time, the it In Rochester, yes.

[Speaker 65.0]: Yes. Yeah, think, you know, we don't track that information. We try not to ask. We try to keep that trust with families, especially with us being over 70% Latino community that we serve. I think we can see in the data though, you know, we've lost overall, from the start of school year to now, about two sixty students. So, if we were to dig deeper, again, with almost 70% of the population being Latino students, we're going to start to see a trend. We can make some anecdotal assumptions, but we're not out there. We've been fortunate enough that they haven't necessarily been in the community, but they've been in the surrounding community. I know my colleagues at Mount Vernon, more northern than us in Tarrytown, have seen some presence. And it is impactful, whether it's directly or not.

[Senator Shelley B. Mayer, Chair, Senate Education Committee]: J. Thank you. I know I can't answer. I just want say thank you to Mount Vernon. We had an excellent visit. And we appreciate that you have we're moving in the right direction. Thank you.

[Assemblymember Ed Ra, Ranking Member (Assembly minority designee)]: Money earned.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Well, thank you, Senator. I just, I have so many questions that I don't want to eat into them because I'll confused myself. I have intimate knowledge of two of the districts up here, Yonkers and Mount Vernon. And I know the special problems that both districts have. It's unfortunate that, you know, when we talk about wealth, we talk about property values and not income. And Yonkers is a wealthy district. And that's one of the reasons that Yonkers doesn't fare as well as it should. Mount Vernon, I know, has too few properties, taxable properties. And there were, unfortunately, the voting population in school elections is the population that doesn't want to pay taxes. And their main goal is not the education of young people, but their main goal is not to pay taxes. And they went three or four years without an increase, and that's the reason Mount Vernon has a zero fund balance right now and a myriad amount of new issues that, as the superintendent said, is being going over now by the monitor. Hopefully that works out and we get the city back on the good foot, as the expression goes. When I first was elected, Mount Vernon had a 10,000 student population. Now you're saying it's 6,500. Where did those students go? I know that they just vanished?

[Speaker 50.0]: Well, I would say roughly about 500 of them are right in our city. They go to two different charter schools.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: So those charter school students are not counted in your population?

[Speaker 50.0]: No. Even though you know that if they do have a five zero four or require a or they have a disability Related services. Yes. We have to still provide for their related services. And then there's some schools students that go to school in the city. Some students go to school further up north. That's just the way it is.

[Speaker 74.0]: J. With those charter school costs, you know, what is not spoken about are the associated costs, such as transportation, nursing Okay. And other things such as whenever there's a student with an exceptionality, we still have to staff individuals to be able to then, evaluate, for their services. And those are costs that are borne to the local school district.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: It's really, truly a problem. I know Albany is basically the birthplace of charter schools. When they first came to the state, they were the charter schools would be run out of Massachusetts. And for some reason, everyone thought that charter schools were better than sliced bread. And it's unfortunate that there's such a proliferation now of these charter schools, especially in Albany, when you have so few taxable properties and too many charter schools. Mount Vernon is four square miles, which means that nobody lives more than two miles from school. The state reimburses you for transportation for one and a half miles, not un yet you have an $18,000,000 transportation budget. That means you're transporting $18,000,000 per year of special ed students. Is that correct?

[Speaker 50.0]: That was correct from the previous year. However, we've really dialed back on the amount of students with disabilities that actually get transportation. Those students would have to have a physical disability or be extremely cognitively delayed. And that's how they would be allowed to get those services.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: So, of the twenty one percent of special ed students that you spoke about, what percentage is left to be transported?

[Speaker 50.0]: So, that I would have to get to you.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Okay, but your budget is significantly down from the $18,000,000

[Speaker 50.0]: Yes, that is correct. That is correct. We're expected to see some transportation savings because of the efficiencies that we've put in place.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Okay. And now, any of your school districts have a fund balance in excess of two and a half times your budget? Raise your hand. I didn't think so. Okay, that's one of the things that the governor tried to do was to take monies from districts that had fund balances of hundreds of millions of dollars and redistribute to school districts that don't have that cash. But of course, it met with a lot of pushback from many of my colleagues who represent those districts. And as you all know, that what a fund balance is is the overtaxation of the population. It's money that was raised in taxes and then not spent and put into the bank. That's something that I think should be addressed. I don't know how we address it now because it just means that some school districts shouldn't get what they're getting. I have to admonish all of you for one thing. And I've also admonished the teachers when I was chair of gaming. I did everything I could to drive money to education. And governors from well, the last three governors systematically reduced the money that went to education and went to other places. The last quote unquote insult to education was when she took the monies derived from the new licensed casinos and put it to the MTA and took it from education. That represents a billion and a half dollars that should have gone to not only you but the rest of the state. But now it's going to the MTA. And I have nothing against buses and trains and planes and all of that good stuff. But I care more about the young people of the state than I do about my subway token. You know, I don't use tokens anymore, whatever they're using now. That sub is $0.15 tokens. Digital card. You know, omni cards or whatever. But I want to thank you all for all that you do, and thank you for coming down. And the superintendent of Albany will take you all to lunch now, because you're in his fair city. Might take you to the cafeteria at the local high school. You'll get mystery meat and mashed potatoes. I remember that corn, but we'll see what we can. Oh, they're telling me that my time is up. It is good to be the king. Thank you all very much.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, Senate Finance Committee]: So it's kind of weird.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Okay. Oh, send it.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, Senate Finance Committee]: Oh, no, you don't have a question? Okay, fine.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Fine. No worries. Okay. Thank you all very much.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, Senate Finance Committee]: Thank you. Alright.

[Assemblymember Ed Ra, Ranking Member (Assembly minority designee)]: I think you should get extra time. I was entertained.

[Hearing Clerk/Staff (unidentified)]: Yes. He

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, Senate Finance Committee]: did have extra

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: He's here.

[Speaker 28.0]: About you.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: No. You weren't. Your staff was,

[Senator Andrew Gounardes]: but that's okay. Exactly.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Okay. Panel c. Wait. We gotta keep this a little lighter because

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, Senate Finance Committee]: Okay. Fine.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: We got a long way to go.

[Speaker 32.0]: Yes. Yes.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: We Yes.

[Assemblymember Michael R. Benedetto, Chair, Assembly Education Committee]: We do. Thank you very much.

[Assemblymember Ed Ra, Ranking Member (Assembly minority designee)]: Of course, Kyle had to take control there.

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: Scott? Oh, we missed somebody?

[Speaker 77.0]: Got it.

[Speaker 78.0]: That's Scott's question. Or your Scott.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Good aft good afternoon, everyone. Sorry for making you wait a little bit longer. But I wanted to hear what they had to say. I want to hear what you have to say. We have we'd like to testify. I would like you to testify in the order that you listed on our form here. So that's the New York State School Boards Association, followed by the Association of School Business Officials, then the New York State Parent Teachers Association, Rural Schools Administration, BOCES of New York State, and the New York State Community School Network. I understand that educators for excellence is not in attendance. Is that true? School Board Association, you're on.

[Speaker 79.0]: Thank you. Good afternoon. My name is Brian Fessler, and I'm the Chief Advocacy Officer for the New York State School Boards Association. Chairs, committee members, I appreciate the opportunity to testify on behalf of the six sixty nine member school boards we serve. NISPA is pleased to see a budget proposal that fully funds the existing foundation aid formula. We appreciate the governor's proposal to ensure that all districts receive at least some minimum level of foundation aid increase, but the proposed 1% minimum increase is simply too low for too many districts. In fact, as proposed, more than two thirds of all districts would receive the minimum increase. Of those four sixty districts, the median district wealth factor is 0.831, meaning 17% poorer than state average, and the median economically disadvantaged rate is 47%, meaning nearly half the students in those districts are economically disadvantaged. NISPA believes strongly that districts should be guaranteed at least a 2% increase, perhaps with additional enhancements for high need districts. The additional cost of a 2% minimum increase, $79,000,000 would represent 0.29% of the total proposed foundation aid amount. Further, NSBA continues to believe that foundation aid formula improvements are critically necessary. The students who entered kindergarten when foundation aid was established have already graduated college. We need to ensure that our main school funding formula is reflecting the needs of today and tomorrow's students and not the needs of students from a generation and two ago. NSBA supports the governor's continued focus on expanding pre kindergarten access. In particular, increasing the per pupil grant allocation for pre K students and making it consistent throughout the state is welcomed. But this proposal would also effectively mandate provision of pre k services by twenty eight-twenty nine. We are examining whether the new funding will be sufficient to allow all school districts to provide such services or if other barriers would still exist. And while not a new issue, I would be remiss if I did not stress that the zero emission bus transition mandate continues to be a front and center concern for school districts. Recent adjustments are noted and appreciated, including short term waivers, but school districts continue to lack the necessary supports and flexibilities, financial and operational, to meet the law's targets. Until or unless the mandate is repealed or significantly altered, NISPA calls on lawmakers to support additional resources and reforms to address the many serious hurdles that remain. And our priorities exist beyond funding. We look forward to working with you to increase flexibility around reserve fund usage, to reduce unnecessary short term borrowing costs, and renewal of contract piggybacking authority to support cost savings and overall spending efficiencies and more. Thank you.

[Speaker 48.0]: Thank you. Good afternoon.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Good afternoon.

[Speaker 48.0]: Chairs Krueger, Pratt Lowe, Mayor Benedetto, thank you for the opportunity, committee members. My name is Brian Chachniki. I'm the executive director of Asbo New York, representing the over 3,200 members working in school business offices around the state in all of our BOCES and 97% of our districts. Our written testimony goes into a number of different areas, but there's three that I'd like to focus on today. First, on foundation aid. We appreciate the work that's been done in the last year to begin updating the formula, but recognize that more work needs to be done. As our testimony highlights, the underlying costs of the formula have not been updated in eleven years. And the inflation adjustment that's been used instead hasn't been keeping pace with actual education costs. As our educational conference board has proposed a new successful school study, update is needed. And that will naturally increase aid levels for many districts, including many of those that are on safe harmless. As you've heard a lot today, that 1% minimum for those safe harmless districts is not sufficient for most districts. And especially with no updated base cost, we really need to see an increase in that minimum. On the matter of universal pre kindergarten, we appreciate the significant investment that's being made in both lifting the base funding levels and removing the seat caps. That's going to allow statewide all districts to be able to expand their program. But we're very concerned about the mandate. The mandate proposal leaves open a number of questions that we think actually should probably be considered when we're thinking about instituting a mandate and not leaving agencies to figure out in the implementation. Instituting new program mandates without having some of those operational nuances worked out makes universal buy in among the public and ultimate success of the program a challenge as we've seen in other areas. Yesterday, my association held a webinar summarizing all of these proposals for about two seventy districts in BOCES. And a number of questions regarding pre K and the operational details came up, including, does this mean that transportation for four year olds is now a mandate? How are districts going to deal with the matter of going a few students over the staffing ratios? And does that mean now we have to double our costs? What happens when there's multiple CBO providers and there's conflicts about parents wanting to make sure that certain kids, their kids go to certain providers, along with many others. And we hope that these questions really get their consideration before adopting any type of mandate because we think that will really paint what type of mandate or no mandate gets ultimately enacted. And then finally, I'd be remiss if I didn't bring up the matter of prior year adjustments. This is something that for many years we've been discussing but really we need to see a process correction here. There's $326,000,000 that's owed to districts around the state. The state continues to take money back when reconciliations are in the state's favor and is not paying districts money that is owed to them. And it's not paying money that this legislature has paid for out of its table targets in previous budgets. So we'd like to see that corrected. Thank you.

[Speaker 77.0]: I am Kyle Belichotte Hermelyn, Executive Director of the New York State Parent Teachers Association. I'm proud to represent our 225,000 members and the parents and families, and most importantly, our 2,600,000 schoolchildren. On behalf of President Patty Fraser, thank you for the opportunity to share our thoughts today on this executive budget and the needs of our students. In kindergarten, my son was asked by his amazing teacher, Gina Mahoney, what his dream was. He said it was to become a teacher, the noblest of professions. See, every child has a dream for themselves, even in kindergarten. And every parent has a dream for their child. I wanted him to be a fireman. But many children and many families need help in achieving those dreams, and that's where we all come in. Dedicated policymakers and amazing educators and advocates and teachers and related professionals and PTAs across this great state. And this budget can help them achieve those dreams. We cannot forget, however, that what we consider adequate, equitable, or reasonable minimum, Our children have faced so many things. A global pandemic. Twenty five percent of them diagnosed with a mental health disorder. Twenty two percent of our teens have last year considered suicide. Nearly twenty percent of them have dyslexia or dysgraphia. Twenty five percent of them have a disability. One in five live in poverty. More than half of them qualify for free or reduced price lunch. One hundred and thirty eight thousand of them are homeless. Two hundred and fifty nine thousand of them are English language learners. And eight thousand of them live in foster care. The executive budget is a great starting point to achieve those kindergarten dreams, but there is more work to do. More than two fifty school districts, as you have heard, are on the 1%. That is not enough to get to those dreams. And if you have been in a school building lately, you have seen the amazing things that are happening. What schools do today is simply amazing. We have laundries for students, and medical and eye care and mental health services, food and security programs, and backpack programs, and STEM programs, and STEAM programs. And innovation and discovery. These are not the same schools that we went to, and for that, I am so glad. But these programs need more than the 1% minimum. We support our school breakfast programs and lunch. That's amazing. We need a bit more money for SNAP and WIC, and that's in our testimony. We support the amazing investments in moving to a universal pre K system and childcare expansion. We know that P TECH and early college high school STEM, AP, and IB is the future. They increase graduation rates and successes in college and career, especially for our low income, high need students. That needs your particular attention in this budget. I ask you please take note of that. We look to you to support funding and critical programs, like graduation measures work for the State Education Department, a new center for dyslexia and dysgraphia, and more supports for the School for the Arts, the Blind, the Deaf, and our Native American schools. And unfortunately, we must continue to review the mandate and timeline for a zero emission bus program. Barriers, limitations, and problems have become problematic. So I look to your partnership for that work. But over the next sixty days, we have a chance to make a dream for those kindergartener students. See, my son's now 16. He's not going to be a teacher, a lawyer, or a fireman like his mom. He dreams to be a mechanical engineer or a business person. And I thank his amazing teachers and you all for making those dreams come true for every child. Thank you.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, Senate Finance Committee]: Thank you. Next.

[Speaker 80.0]: Honored leaders, I'm Dave Little representing the half of the schools in New York and a third of the students that are educated in our rural schools. This is my forty third legislative session either working for you or with you to try and make our children a better educated population for the great state of New York and a better future. And as it may well be my last time before you, I also want to make sure that I thank you for your guidance and your leadership and your collaboration over those decades. So thank you very much, particularly and I don't want to play favorites. I'm just pointing out I've got two personal heroes up there, Senators Krueger and Mayer. And I thank you in particular for your guidance over the years and questions. You have a document in front of you that resulted from 14 rural issues forums from one end of the state to the other, close enough to Canada that Verizon felt compelled to tell me what my Canadian data rates were going to be. And we gathered from that all of the information about the hopes, dreams, challenges, and issues of our rural communities and the schools that they host. That information is in front of you and it's stark and it's challenging. A 1% across the board increase isn't going to touch that and what I really want to focus on with you today is the opportunity before you. Our state education department has embarked on a unique program, the Portrait of a Graduate and New York Inspires program, that can overcome our traditional challenges of doing business in New York, our robust bureaucracy, our high taxes, and our high debt levels, to give business what they've always claimed they need. They want a workforce that can collaborate, that can communicate, that can work across cultures, and that can problem solve. Portrait of a Graduate can do that, and we're doing it. We are the envy of every state in this union for having to operationalize that effort. The one thing that can derail it is in trying to pay for it with a generation old system that doesn't recognize the needs of the kids that are in the seats and still continues to focus on how many kids are in those seats. If we go forward in a way that costs out what these children need in this generation, a unique generation that has significant concerns, look at the things in that publication. 50 of the kids in the North Country entering school this year are identified as having special needs. One in every two. Okay? No other generation came to school fearing death. None of them came from having been in isolation for years. This is a problem that we have to deal with now, and a 1% across the board way of paying for it is not only the least equitable way of paying for it, but it will further dry up the teacher pipeline, and we can't get staff now. So in order for us to try and meet these challenges and become the great empire state that we could be, it's gonna take your courage and your wisdom, and I thank you for it.

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: Thank you. Next.

[Speaker 81.0]: Afternoon, committee chairs and members of the committee. I am here today on behalf of the BOCES of New York State representing the district superintendents of the 37 boards of cooperative educational services. Thank you for allowing us the opportunity to speak with you today. First, thanks for your commitment to education. Last year's updates to foundation aid and to BOCES aid are appreciated. These updates better align state policy with evolving student demographics and with increased requests for BOCES services. This year, the executive budget proposal is a good starting place. Although BOCES do do not receive foundation aid, BOCES rely heavily on their school districts for funding. We are market driven, responding to demand. The financial stability of our school district client base, therefore, is critical to us. As this year's budgets negotiations begin, we encourage you to consider the following. Provide at least the level of funding proposed by the executive, continue to update the foundation aid formula, establish new tiers within reorganization aid to allow districts that substantially consolidate or share to access a commensurate portion of those funds. In addition, until recently, special education students' entitlement to a free and appropriate education was interpreted to extend until they reached graduated or reached the age of 21. However, recent court rulings have reinterpreted this to mean age 22. Unfortunately, the rulings do not extend state aid for the period of the extended mandate. If the state requires districts to educate students until age 22, it should fund their education accordingly. School aid is not the only area in which budget can help the BOCES support their students. BOCES are facing critical workforce shortages. Statewide, there are shortages in candidates to fill key positions. To address these issues, steps must be taken to bring in people and to keep them in school related roles, Offering scholarships and loan forgiveness, as has been done for other high demand fields such as nursing, would help. We also encourage you to to continue to modernize civil service hiring and promotion rules to reduce reliance on tests. We tell our students that achievement means more than a single test score. The same should be true for professionals. Another area in which assistance is needed is space. Unlike traditional school districts, BOCES often lease space rather than own property because they are not taxing entities and rely on component school districts for capital project funding. We ask that you align BOCES authority to lease from public entities to private entities with twenty year leases. Finally, we we must continue to support districts in their transition to zero emission buses. Most significantly, there is no process in place for purchases in cases of likely of failed bond votes and failed budget votes. Thank you for considering the perspective of the BOCES of New York State as part of your conversation. I'm happy to answer questions at this time.

[Speaker 78.0]: Thank you to the Finance, Ways and Means, and Education Committees for the opportunity to testify today. My name is Annie Nelson, and I am a steering committee member of the New York State Community Schools Network and a policy analyst at Children's Aid. The New York State Community Schools Network is a coalition of community based organizations, educators, families, and advocates. Since 2014, we have advanced the community school strategy across New York State, which now spans more than eight twenty schools and serves over 200,000 students. Community schools are a proven evidence based strategy for supporting the whole child By integrating academics with health, mental health, and social services, they remove barriers to learning and strengthen relationships with students and families, particularly in high needs communities where we know inequities drive gaps in attendance, achievement, and well-being. This model also provides infrastructure for a seamless continuum of care, with many community schools offering early childhood and after school programs. At Children's Aid, where we serve as the lead partner in 19 community schools across New York City, we see these impacts firsthand. Our students face challenges including chronic absenteeism, learning loss, food insecurity, and unmet health needs. And our community school staff respond by coordinating school based supports and using targeted data driven interventions to increase engagement and attendance. Most of our sites also operate after school programs, and four of our sites include early childhood classrooms, ensuring supports are aligned from early childhood through the school day and into after school. And these efforts deliver consistently meaningful results for our students. At PS152, we saw that pairing chronically absent students with success mentors led to an 18 percentage point reduction in chronic absenteeism over three years. Through our College and Career Access and Success model, last year, we saw ninety six percent of our high school students apply to college and 100% were accepted. These outcomes also align with broader research showing that community schools improve attendance, graduation rates, and academic achievement while reducing disciplinary incidents. And they also deliver these results efficiently with national studies showing returns of $10 to $14 for every dollar invested. To ensure these outcomes reach even more students statewide, we urge the legislature to consider two key recommendations. First, dedicate $25,000,000 to create and expand community schools statewide. While the existing foundation aid set aside is appreciated, it's a carve out, so it lacks accountability and consistency. A dedicated funding stream would support essential staffing and interventions and serve as an important down payment towards the $100,000,000 needed for high quality statewide implementation. Second, provide $6,000,000 for community school resource support networks. This funding would enable 20 counties to build local collective impact efforts and provide statewide coordination and technical assistance through the Network for Youth Success. Together, these investments would strengthen accountability, promote quality, and expand equitable access to a proven strategy that helps New York students succeed. Thank you.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Thank you. Mike? Marcela Mitaynes?

[Assemblymember Michael R. Benedetto, Chair, Assembly Education Committee]: Yes, thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you for your presentations.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Okay. You're ma'am. You're here, ma'am.

[Assemblymember Michael R. Benedetto, Chair, Assembly Education Committee]: So so No.

[Speaker 26.0]: No. I think

[Assemblymember Michael R. Benedetto, Chair, Assembly Education Committee]: I understand it's difficult a lot of times to meet all the mandates that you might face. And you want to provide mental health services to as many students as you can. And of course, it's greatly needed. But you may lack these teachers, the counselors to do it. Has any of the district, as far as you know, employed techniques like telecommunications and to do it. Some guy living in Chicago but connects by wires and TV and Zoom to students.

[Speaker 49.0]: Go ahead.

[Speaker 80.0]: I know it's particularly important in rural areas because it's not financially viable for many counselors and other workers to make the trip out. They spend half the day to work with a handful of students. And so telehealth is particularly important. And it doesn't have to be somebody from Chicago. It can be a perfectly certified New York State counselor in that But have employed this already? We're having regulatory issues between the Department of Health and the State Education Department and trying to get that done.

[Assemblymember Michael R. Benedetto, Chair, Assembly Education Committee]: Oh, okay. So you're looking into it, but you'd have no examples to say, well, this has been done and gee, was great success, very successful.

[Speaker 80.0]: We've got lots of national examples. New York isn't there yet.

[Assemblymember Michael R. Benedetto, Chair, Assembly Education Committee]: Okay. Thank you.

[Angelique Dingle Johnson, P-12 Deputy Commissioner, NYSED]: Marcela Maher?

[Senator Shelley B. Mayer, Chair, Senate Education Committee]: Thank you. And Dave, thank you for the very nice compliment. And I heard you, if this is your last budget, we will miss You won't have to wait till whatever time it is, but thank you for being such an advocate for rural schools. We appreciate your leadership.

[Speaker 80.0]: Thanks so much.

[Senator Shelley B. Mayer, Chair, Senate Education Committee]: I have a few questions briefly. One is on the school bus mandate. Many people have raised it today. Sort of a blunt question, is NYSERDA a good enough partner in helping districts get grant funding, apply for the planning part of the process, looking at the logistics of purchasing the bus? Or is there more they could do to be helpful to help districts meet the timeline?

[Speaker 48.0]: I think NYSERDA has been a great partner. I think they've put a lot of good work out there. I think the barriers that districts are facing are not ones that NYSERDA can solve. I think we've heard earlier today know you guys probably have NYSERDA primarily has in their testimony the bus costs have continued to increase when they're expected to go down. And I sort of can't fix that. Some of the voter approval issues have been talked about earlier today. So I think they've done a commendable job in what they can do. Think we're getting to the point where the challenges are ones that are beyond sort of their administrative ability.

[Senator Shelley B. Mayer, Chair, Senate Education Committee]: JULIE I understand. You also raised, I think, Brian, the concern about what you call a mandate for pre K in the governor's proposal. I think you know certainly the Senate majority has been very supportive of giving districts money for pre K, some of left the money on the table. And it's been a source of frustration. Do you think there's a willingness now that there's more money proposed by

[Assemblymember Stacey Pheffer Amato]: the governor

[Senator Shelley B. Mayer, Chair, Senate Education Committee]: to actually implement it in more districts?

[Speaker 48.0]: I think pre K, in particular, is an issue that, universally, people are interested and willing to do. I think there's definitely a bit of a mind shift that's going to have to go from a capped program that had maximum grants and maximum slots to something that's provided. A lot of the conversations I've had in the last week have been exactly that. I don't know how this is going to work because I can only do so many kids in a program. So I think there's some education that needs to go into that on the field level. But I do think the add you know, going to the $10,000 minimum is a huge benefit for many districts. This definitely gets many districts a lot of the way there. But I think there's going to need to be some you know, just some understanding involved. I've done some work. The Division of Budget was very helpful this week in answering some questions for me that I've tried to get out to memberships. So we're doing that work. But we know there are operational challenges here and we want to make sure that every district is receiving money and fully implementing

[Senator Dean Murray, Senate Libraries Ranker]: Okay.

[Senator Shelley B. Mayer, Chair, Senate Education Committee]: And just lastly I'm sorry. On the BOCES issue, in my experience visiting BOCES, the one on ones for special needs students, basically every child had a one on one. Is that the can we have a later conversation about how BOCES is handling special needs kids?

[Speaker 81.0]: Absolutely, yes. Okay.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Thank you. Salman Rah.

[Assemblymember Ed Ra, Ranking Member (Assembly minority designee)]: Thank you, chair. Thank you all. Mr. Little, if it is the last time, thank you for your tireless advocacy and the expertise ROSE: and perspective you've always brought to these conversations.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: STEPHEN Thank you.

[Assemblymember Ed Ra, Ranking Member (Assembly minority designee)]: Just had a question really with regard to, as we're talking about Foundation Aid and we're talking about safe harmless, I know has this recommendation for a fixed minimum within foundation aid. Can you elaborate on what you think would be included on that, what that should look like, and certainly if anybody else wants to weigh in on that as well?

[Speaker 48.0]: Yeah, I think the core issue here, and it particularly relates to rural schools, but not only rural schools, is as you have lower enrollment and decreasing enrollment, the on paper, it looks like you're spending more per pupil, right? But you can't do anything about the staffing size, right? I use the example all the time. You can lose one kid per grade. That's 10% of your enrollment, but you can't cut a single teacher. You can't close a classroom or anything like that. So I think having some sort of base per pupil minimum that doesn't fluctuate with the formula or maybe some fixed pot that recognizes, okay, for 100 kids, you need x number of teachers. Age should be at least this much for those teachers. I think there's a couple different options there that we didn't get into details here, but those are some of things that we need to explore.

[Assemblymember Ed Ra, Ranking Member (Assembly minority designee)]: Okay. And can you just elaborate on what that disconnect between declining enrollment and having those fixed operational costs has meant for our rural districts in terms of program loss and things of that nature?

[Speaker 80.0]: J. Yeah, it's been profound. When you, as the legislature, provided Excel Aid in response to the CFE case, everybody built. And almost immediately, the Great Recession hit, and we started this mass exodus of students, particularly from rural areas. People don't realize it, but the second largest outward migration in US history is Upstate New York during Recession, second only to the Dust Bowl. That's why we called this the hard work of staying. The people who remain in those areas have an increased civic and financial responsibility. The problem, we have great space to be able to do things, which is why doing things like school based health centers and community schools and those things are so viable in rural areas. The problem with basing what we do on the number of children that's there is that it doesn't recognize any of the needs of this generation of children. They're profound and nothing like we've ever experienced before. And if we don't, you know, if we don't address those things, not only will they not be successful, but it's a financial model that's not sustainable. So we're going to have to look at what's really happening and what those children need as opposed to how many of them are in the seats.

[Speaker 54.0]: Thank you.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Thank you.

[Speaker 60.0]: Thank

[Senator Dean Murray, Senate Libraries Ranker]: more you. You. And thank you all for being here. With only three minutes, I'm just going to focus right now on BOCES. I see that there was an increase in reimbursable aid reimbursement aid from last year of $104,470,000 Is that good news? Are we adding programs? Is this from different offerings or adding on?

[Speaker 81.0]: J. I think that is very good news. In fact, especially for rural school districts where there is now increased incentive to share and consolidate through BOCES programming is very good news.

[Senator Dean Murray, Senate Libraries Ranker]: Are we seeing new programs such as one I'm seeing or hearing about is like HVAC training and things like this? Are we seeing an increase in interest

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: in that?

[Speaker 81.0]: Yes, I believe we are. And especially with the department's initiative for graduation pathways, BOCES will become instrumental in that effort as well.

[Senator Dean Murray, Senate Libraries Ranker]: That's great. Now, I believe this is the key to keeping our next generation here, is giving them the training in the trades and things like this, using their hands and giving them opportunities. But with that said, are we doing a good enough job in collaborating with the business community, collaborating with the trade unions, and everything like this? Are we doing good enough? Could we do better?

[Speaker 81.0]: Well, we can certainly always do better. But I think, again, the Graduation Pathways Initiative, New York Inspires, I think that will encourage schools, as well as BOCES, to partner even more closely. But yes, we can always do better.

[Senator Dean Murray, Senate Libraries Ranker]: And what help do you need to I need to jump on that

[Speaker 80.0]: just for a minute to And add to that is simply to say that that's the problem with the 1% across the board increase. Nobody went to school to try and figure out how to make the connections between a school district and their business community and try and embed the kind of graduation measures that you need from a viable educational program into a business internship experience. Nobody knows how to do that. That's going to take professional development. And that's what I was talking about as our needing to pivot from what we've always done to what needs to be done now. Trying to get to Portrait of a Graduate is such a tremendous sea change and opportunity for the state of New York. But it needs to be supported specifically in the things that you need to do to change to those measures.

[Hearing Clerk/Staff (unidentified)]: J.

[Senator Dean Murray, Senate Libraries Ranker]: Right. I think we need to start thinking all of us need to think a little more out of the box and think in terms of and I've talked with some folks over at like ESD, Empire State Development, things like this about teaming with businesses, maybe give tax breaks or create programs where maybe internships or things like this are given to the businesses that donate equipment or machinery or something to just kind of, again, think out of the box and create more of that collaboration. Are there things or suggestions, or could we talk more about things we could do to help?

[Speaker 81.0]: Absolutely, we could talk more. Yeah, I can get you more information about that.

[Senator Dean Murray, Senate Libraries Ranker]: I ask that because we're running out of time.

[Speaker 82.0]: So thank you. Let's talk later.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Assemblyman Smith.

[Assemblymember Doug Smith, Ranking Member, Assembly Education Committee]: Thank you, and thank you all for being incredible advocates for the children and families across the state of New York. Kyle, as a PTA member with a second grader, I'm very happy your energy matches my energy, so it's a good thing. A lot of the questions I had were asked, thankfully. But I did have an interesting one. So Senator Murray and I share a great deal of area. And as we're talking with school districts that are struggling with enrollment but still increasing costs, they're trying to think their school business officials are trying to think outside the box and come up with ideas. So I did notice the Association of School Business Officials came up with an idea that schools be allowed to borrow from their own designated reserves. I'm wondering about that. How much would this reduce reliance on high interest bank loans? And would that save taxpayer money? How would that work?

[Speaker 48.0]: J. Yeah. And this dates to there was some temporary legislation enacted during the COVID time that allowed for this. So, has been done. You know, I don't want to promise that it's, you know, billions of dollars saving, but there's definitely some finance saving that would be had. Districts have this money in the reserves. The bill that's been introduced, I know, allows for or requires essentially some payback with interest so that you're keeping the taxpayers whole on that. But you're paying yourself the interest as opposed to going out into the open market. And so there's definitely some savings there we

[Chancellor Kumar Samuels, NYC Department of Education]: could save.

[Assemblymember Doug Smith, Ranking Member, Assembly Education Committee]: G. Okay. Because I think I got to tell you, and we're limited in time, but Senator Murray and I have talked to districts that are talking about the tax anticipation notes and how they're just spending money in fees because of the way that our budget timelines just don't match up. Absolutely. So, really, honestly, if you could provide, you know, the legislature some out of the box ideas, you know, it may end up, you know, whether it be, you know, keeping money in credit unions. I know that's something that the banks committee looked at a few years ago. Just these things that might seem like something that wouldn't traditionally be education. Do you have any other thoughts on some of those things? Not to put you on

[Chancellor Kumar Samuels, NYC Department of Education]: the spot, but

[Speaker 48.0]: Yeah, no. I mean, I think happy engage in more detail with you. But yeah, think there definitely are some operational things. And the to put it back on the legislature or the budget process, but that underlying cost in foundation aid, that's really the lagging factor here. The formula is not reflecting reality. And over time, that gap is widening and it's impacting more and more districts.

[Assemblymember Doug Smith, Ranking Member, Assembly Education Committee]: And I think that makes sense because that's something more tangible where we can point to it and say that funds directly. And I have thirty seconds, but with regard to rural school districts, and just to kind of piggyback off what was said, you guys are cutting programs and staffing due to the declining enrollment. So how is that you're dealing with fixed expenses. So how is that going?

[Speaker 80.0]: Rural schools have become dramatically creative and collaborative. When we talk about regionalism, everybody bristles. If you talk about neighbors helping neighbors, they say that's who we are, right? And so they're sharing. They're using BOCES. And they're trying to be creative. And I think that they're succeeding.

[Assemblymember Doug Smith, Ranking Member, Assembly Education Committee]: Thank you.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Thank you very much. I believe that concludes the questioning for this panel. I appreciate your participation. And Thank you. Now convene panel d, forty two zero one Schools Association, New York State Coalition of Eight fifty three Schools Advocates for Children of New York, New York State Coalition of Special Act Schools, New York Association on Independent Living, and the New York State Alliance for Arts Education. It's freezing in here. Yesterday. No. It was it was it was was cold yesterday, though. That was

[Hearing Clerk/Staff (unidentified)]: Yeah. It was

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, Senate Finance Committee]: cold outside, but I don't think it was cold in here yesterday.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: I would I think I was cold. A lot of auditoriums have insufficient heat, and the designers designed them where body heat keeps the room warm. And then

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, Senate Finance Committee]: And then when it empties out

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: When you when it empties out, you get a list.

[Speaker 42.0]: Yep. Yep.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Now we're all pumping at 98 degrees, but we don't we don't feel the space. Yeah. Mike should be on. Good afternoon, everyone. I guess we'll start out with four thousand one hundred four thousand two hundred one Schools Association. Could you speak into the mic, please?

[Speaker 11.0]: All right. I'm going to be using American Sign Language, and we have a sign language interpreter. It's nice to see some familiar faces. I do have some information today about the four thousand two hundred and one School Associations. To start, my name is Anthony McCletchie. I'm superintendent and CEO of the Rochester School for the Deaf. I'm also the co chair as the 4,201. First, I want to thank you for your continued support and friendship over the years. The four thousand two hundred one Schools Association is the membership includes 11 not for profit state supported schools around State. New We serve deaf, blind, deaf blind, and severely physically disabled students across New York State. In recent years, many more of the children that we serve also have additional disabilities: physical, emotional, and or in cognition. We would like to first thank the assembly for your long standing support of our students and our schools. And like any school, the 4,201 schools need consistent, stable, and reliable funding to meet our students' needs. We request the support in operational growth. The executive budget proposes level funding for the 4,201 schools, which includes the growth added by the legislator in the twenty twenty five-twenty six enacted budget. Our students are public school students who need the expertise of our teachers and clinicians to access education. Growth is necessary to meet the growing and diversifying needs of our student population. Many more of our students now than ever have disabilities in addition to their primary diagnoses requiring more intensive instruction and related services. More funding is needed. Our teachers and clinicians are specially trained and certified And that's where we need the continued support to retain them and keep them within our system. Our next ask is for salary growth and workforce retention. As I mentioned, retention. Our school staff members are specially trained and certified to work with children who are deaf, blind, deaf blind, or severely physically disabled. Salaries of our teachers and clinicians lag those in public schools. We propose the following to lessen the compensation gap a $10,000,000 program to infuse directly into our teacher and clinician salaries. We are grateful for the New York State Black, Puerto Rican, Hispanic, and Asian Legislative Caucus's support of this initiative again this year in their annual the people's budget package issued recently. And then fund balance. According to the state comptroller, the practice of planning ahead and systemically saving for capital acquisitions and other contingencies and is considered prudent management. However, all schools except for the forty two zero one schools are authorized to retain a small budget. For capital support, we would like to thank the governor and the legislator for investing in our school buildings Many and of our school buildings are old. For example, Rochester School for the Deaf, where I am CEO, has been in existence since 1876. Others since 1817 and 1831. Thank you for allowing me to present today.

[Speaker 55.0]: Thank you for the opportunity to testify today. My name is Joe Trainer, and I'm the executive director of the Martin DePora School. And I'm here today as the president of the New York State Coalition of eight fifty three Schools. The coalition is a statewide organization representing state approved nonprofit special education schools, otherwise known as eight fifty three schools. Our schools serve a diverse population of children with experiences in foster care, juvenile justice, and special education systems. Our students are public school students whose needs cannot be met by their local public school districts. We thank the legislature for supporting resources for SED to hire a consultant to redesign the tuition rate methodology that establishes the funding for our schools. We look forward to the draft report in November with recommendations for reforming that methodology. And we will follow-up with the legislators later this year with our feedback. In the meantime, we need to continue to make sure that schools receive predictable annual growth in their rates aligned with the consumer price index. We also need to make sure that investments in the dedicated staff who serve our students are made. When classrooms are closed due to lack of staffing, enrollment denials increase and students end up on wait lists for services. The coalition recommends investing a total of $15,000,000 spread across three specific areas. Increasing the excessive teacher turnover prevention program, supporting teachers in our schools. Expanding the ETT program to include teachers' assistants, classroom aids, and licensed clinicians, and including a set aside within the Department of Labor's teacher residency program to support teachers from our schools. The current rate structure does not appropriately address the maintenance and renovation costs that ensure safe, accessible facilities for our students. The executive budget proposal includes capital funding for other similar education settings. However, no such dedicated funding stream exists to support eight fifty three schools. The coalition recommends creating a $40,000,000 eight fifty three schools capital fund. Additionally, we have recently learned that DOB is proposing changes to the existing waiver application process that will create further delays and denials of capital projects. We contend this process should be evaluated as a part of the tuition rate study with opportunities for stakeholder and legislative feedback. Lastly, the coalition supports amending state statute to continue special education services for students for the full school year in which they turn 22. This will ensure continuity of care and allow for appropriate discharge planning and provide for enrollment management for our schools. State aid to school districts should be adjusted to support the provision of these services. We look forward to working with you to advance critical investments in this year's budget that will better assist us in delivering the education related services to our students that they not only need but deserve. Thank you so much.

[Speaker 83.0]: Thank you for the opportunity to speak with you. My name is Randy Levine. I'm policy director of Advocates for Children of New York. We appreciate that Governor Hochul and the legislature fully funded the foundation aid formula in 2023 for the first time, and that the governor is proposing to fully fund the formula again this year. However, we echo the calls of so many others here today for the governor and legislature to make long overdue updates to the formula, and to ensure that the state does not shortchange New York City students again this year. Last year, the limited changes made to the formula resulted in New York City schools receiving $314,000,000 less than they would have received had the state made no changes at all. This year, the state should update the formula's regional cost index, which is supposed to account for differences in wages in different parts of the state, but is using metrics from 2006. The state should also add a weight for students who are homeless and students in foster care. These two student groups face significant barriers to education, but the formula provides no additional funding to help school districts meet their unique educational needs. We also recommend increased weights for students with disabilities and English language learners, and our written testimony has additional recommendations. New York City schools have more than 154,000 students experiencing homelessness, nearly one in seven, and six hundred and eighty thousand economically disadvantaged students, three out of four. The legislature should not allow New York City schools to miss out on hundreds of millions of dollars intended to support low income students due to last year's inadequate changes. With respect to early childhood education, we appreciate the increased investments proposed in the executive budget, including funding to help New York City make three ks truly universal. As the state and city move forward with plans to strengthen three ks and expand early childhood programs, it is essential that these programs be accessible to children with disabilities. As of May 2025, in New York City alone, more than 600 children were waiting for seats in their legally mandated preschool special education classes. And more than 7,000 preschoolers with disabilities were waiting for one or more of their mandated services to begin. Failing to address the need for preschool special education classes and services deprives young children of support and an important stage of their development, perpetuates discrimination, violates the rights of children with disabilities, puts extra strain on parents trying to juggle jobs and care responsibilities, ultimately requires the K to 12 education system to provide additional support to students, and worsens the affordability crisis. Three ks is not for all, and childcare is not universal if young children with autism are sitting at home because they're being turned away from programs. At this time, when the state is allocating money to expand early childhood, it is essential that the state ensure that districts fully comply with their obligation to provide legally mandated classes, supports, and services to young children with developmental delays and disabilities, including allocating resources and ensuring that our 4,400 ten's and eight fifty three's receive annual rate increases built in to the statute. Our written testimony has more. Thanks so much for the opportunity to speak with you today.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Thank you.

[Speaker 59.0]: Good afternoon, and thank you for giving me the opportunity to speak today. I am Steven Bievich, the president of the New York State Coalition of Special Act School Districts and the superintendent of schools at Mount Pleasant Blythedale, a special act district in Westchester that serves medically fragile children. First, I would like to express our sincere gratitude for the additional school safety allocation the special act districts receive, as well as for the thoughtful changes that have been approved to the rate setting methodology over the past few years. The safety allocation has allowed special act schools to begin to implement the same critical safety features found in traditional public schools. At Mount Pleasant Blythedale, we are using these funds to construct secure entrance vestibules and implement a comprehensive lockdown system, improvements that directly enhance the safety of our students and staff. The changes of the rate setting methodology have been instrumental in strengthening our financial stability. These include the ability to retain reserve funds and most recently, the passage of legislation allowing us to retain interest and invest in income earned on those reserves. Special thank you to Senator Maher, who I believe sponsored that bill. Along with growth rates awarded over the past few years and the implementation of the interim plus rate. These changes have enabled our districts to plan more responsibly and focus resources where they are needed the most. As a result of these targeted improvements, the special act districts believe the methodology, although not perfect, is workable. We are aware that the tuition rate methodology study is underway. While we previously supported a comprehensive overall, we now respectfully urge caution. We are advocating for only common sense adjustments and continued incremental changes, as has been done over the past few years. We are concerned that the study could unintentionally reverse provisions that have contributed to our current improved stability. We ask for your support in preserving these critical elements. Finally, we recognize the constraints in this year's state budget, and we respectfully remind committee that special act districts serve the most vulnerable students in the state. Every additional dollars we receive through growth rates is reinvested directly into our programs to support our students through expanded mental health services, career and technical education programs, instructional specialists, instructional coaches, clubs, and interscholastic sports. We do not only want to meet IEP mandates. We want our students to have a full, well rounded education as they would have in any traditional public school. Again, as you finalize this year's budget, we ask you to keep our students in mind with an equitable growth rate just as you have done in the past. Thank you for your time and consideration.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Thank you.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, Senate Finance Committee]: Thank you very much.

[Speaker 84.0]: Thank you for the opportunity to testify today. My name is Lindsay Miller and I am the executive director of the New York Association on Independent Living, representing the statewide network of 41 independent living centers, cross disability community based organizations that are run by and for people with disabilities. I wanna start by thanking you all for the continued bipartisan support. The $750,000 increase that was included in the 2025 budget was deeply appreciated. Unfortunately, this year's executive budget yet again does not include that increase in the base funding, effectively cutting funding going forward for the independent living centers. We're asking your help in restoring that $750,000 and your efforts in making an additional investment to bring total statewide funding to $25,000,000 the amount needed just to sustain and stabilize core independent living services statewide. A recent funding analysis commissioned by the association confirmed that ILCs are operating with chronic deficits. A minimum adequate ILC budget is about $614,000 to cover base operating costs and ensure core independent living services, yet the average center only receives state funding of approximately $390,000. That's a statewide shortfall of 8,250,000.00, and there are nine counties that currently have no independent living funding at all. This is also happening at the same time that ILCs are being excluded from the human services COLA year after year. We urge passage of A2590 and S1580 that would finally give ILCs the same treatment as other community based human service providers. Despite these funding barriers, independent living centers provide critical frontline services in every region of the state. They help people avoid unnecessary institutionalization, secure accessible housing, navigate benefits, receive peer counseling and independent living skills training, transition from high school to adulthood, understanding their rights related to employment, education, and community access, and accessing home care and long term services, including CDPAP. We serve approximately 100,000 New Yorkers every year and these are often people in crisis someone acclimating to life with a new disability, a young person needing accommodations, or an older adult trying to remain safely at home. Our staff help people navigate systems that are confusing, fragmented and often overwhelming. And their work routinely prevents homelessness, institutionalization and emergency interventions. Investing in ILCs is also fiscally smart. The data produced by Access VR shows that the ILC transition and diversion services save the state more than $9 for every $1 that's invested. I also want to just briefly touch on the statewide fiscal intermediary transition in CDPAP. Preserving the role of independent living centers was a strong focus of the governor and the legislature through that process. And to that end, we strongly support the separate $20,000,000 allocation that's in the health budget for the 11 ILC fiscal intermediaries. However, we are deeply concerned that the state fiscal intermediary is not honoring the legislative intent on their contracts. PPL is not recommending ILCs as facilitators and they're being left out. I'll leave it there and just urge your assistance in preserving funding for independent living centers, increasing funding, and making sure that our intended role in CDPAP is preserved. Thank you.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Thank you.

[Speaker 17.0]: Good afternoon. I'm Gulli Stamford, policy co chair for the New York State Alliance for Arts Education, a statewide network representing public and private school and college educators in the field of art, music, theater, dance, and media arts, as well as teaching artists and community based organizations. NYSE wishes to lend our voice to the chorus urging to maintain full funding of public education adjusted for inflation. Few would question our shared belief that New York is the nation's indeed the world's cultural capital. For centuries, we have recruited and trained, presented, and celebrated the finest talents in the artistic world, And that success has contributed to one of the wonders of the modern world, cities and towns creatively transformed into thriving communities. And how do we achieve that preeminence? By providing a comprehensive arts education regardless of zip code, socioeconomic status, or demographic. The results are culturally literate, mentally healthy society which celebrates and supports the visual, digital, and performing arts and a pipeline of talents to every aspect of creative industry. The New York Regents have recognized the priority role of the arts in their recently adopted New York inspired Portrait of a Graduate. Indeed, it is widely acknowledged that STEAM, the integration of the arts into science, technology, engineering, and math, is the key to twenty first century innovation. Yet, absence the inclusion of the arts in our foundational legislation, there are far too many gaps in the building level, at the building level and ever present temptation to balance budgets by curtailing the arts. So we urge you in your wisdom to maintain full foundation aid funding properly adjusted for inflation, to insist that every district provide access to a sequential education in the visual and performing arts for every student, to restore full staffing for the arts in the office of curriculum and instruction at NYSET, To restore full funding, 2,000,000 for the New York State Summer School of the Arts. To embed in statutes the long awaited bills correcting the omission of the arts from the state's list of recognized subjects. Thank you, chairman Maher. To approve the region's request for a $12,000,000 increase in cultural education funding and to pass senator Jackson's title one schools arts education fund bill, Senate five thousand one fifty four. These may seem small housekeeping matters in a $260,000,000,000 budget, but we at NYSE can assure you that they will go a long way to ensuring that no student, including most challenged students, is denied the creative opportunities that he or she deserves. Thank you for your understanding and support. Please continue to fuel the creative engine which contributes so much to the state's economy, its workforce, and its quality of life.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Thank you. Samuel Benedetto. Thank

[Assemblymember Michael R. Benedetto, Chair, Assembly Education Committee]: you, sir. Mister Sanford, thank you for your testimony. I your your cause is noble, and I agree with it. To the rest of the panel, I don't know what to say. You come every year. You plead the case which should not have to be pled. Okay? And I'm embarrassed about that. Okay? Independent Living Centers, Gail Carrano is still with them?

[Speaker 84.0]: Yeah, think she's on the board.

[Assemblymember Michael R. Benedetto, Chair, Assembly Education Committee]: Please give her a

[Assemblymember Robert C. Carroll]: hug for

[Assemblymember Michael R. Benedetto, Chair, Assembly Education Committee]: me, Okay? Easily because I don't want them

[Senator Tom O’Mara, Senate Republican Ranker]: to fall.

[Assemblymember Michael R. Benedetto, Chair, Assembly Education Committee]: You shouldn't have to be up here pleading every single year. New York should be doing the right thing by you. Okay? You dedicated yourselves over these years time and time again asking for what's just just. And we just don't do it. We want to. Hopefully, eventually, we will. And please, your voices are heard. Don't stop. Don't stop. Thank you.

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: Thank you.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, Senate Finance Committee]: Senator Mayor,

[Senator Shelley B. Mayer, Chair, Senate Education Committee]: I seem to always have a bunch of questions. First place, thank you all. And I think one of the challenges in sort of response to my colleague's legitimate point is that we have these outdated funding streams. And you're all in these little categories. And each one has a different rate methodology and a different way it's set. And it's been very challenging to lift all boats. And we have tried, but we haven't done enough. I agree with that. For Randy, I really the whole preschool special ed problem, not only in New York City but throughout the state and it affects all the other schools as well is that we are not providing enough services early in the pipeline for kids to get to a higher level by the time they are five. And I've been very frustrated by it. Do you believe there are some regulatory changes we could make that would limit the number of people leaving the profession or closing their businesses? Because we are losing the providers as well as individual providers.

[Speaker 83.0]: Yes, and I think that there are probably others on the panel who can speak to that as well in their role as providers. We're, of course, representing families, but we do think that, for example, there should be ways of expediting applications so that programs can more easily be opened and new classes can be opened. And we do think that a key component here is ensuring that the rate, the tuition rate continues to grow as we await the next methodology study, that we're looking at the amount of funding needed to recruit and retain teachers, because without those teachers, we can't open the classes that are needed.

[Senator Shelley B. Mayer, Chair, Senate Education Committee]: I would ask the others of you, the eight fifty three's we don't really have 4,400 and ten's here, I think and 4,200 one's, whether kids are coming into kindergarten in your schools or four year olds ready to participate? Or have they missed some of the early childhood that you think is necessary to do better in your schools? Or all of you, the special acts as well.

[Speaker 11.0]: Yeah, I can answer that. Just a brief comment for the four thousand two hundred one schools, especially the deaf programs. Early intervention services are not great because they are run by all of the individual counties and they have high turnover, which greatly impacts deaf students getting access access to language, access to speech language, other related services. So it impacts their ability to be prepared by the time they get to kindergarten. I am glad that the governor did decide to recognize Lead K in the budget. There was $100,000 there to support early language acquisition. However, we're hoping that that will help to make sure that the program lasts and continues to grow and be supported. Students are arriving late. Students have no language, which then means that they cannot access our curriculum, which then just further makes them behind.

[Senator Shelley B. Mayer, Chair, Senate Education Committee]: Thank you. Thank you very much. And I look forward to following up with all of you as we move ahead in the budget.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Sam Pirozzolo.

[Assemblymember Ed Ra, Ranking Member (Assembly minority designee)]: Thank you. My first question's really a rhetorical one. If any of you could give me a reason why we think, or why every year we have some at least minimum increase for public schools in general, but not for these students. One of the dumbest things we can ever do in government is say, that's how we've always done things. That's not a good reason to do something. So that's more of a rhetorical question than an actual question. But I did have a question on the capital side. I know in the past, some of your organizations have been able to give us some sense of what the capital needs are. Know, ballpark figures. You mentioned, I know, with 4,200 a lot of these, and I've visited many of them, a lot of them are very old buildings. If any of you can give us a sense of what the capital needs of your schools are.

[Speaker 55.0]: So I don't think we can give I can't give a specific number. What I can talk a little bit about is it's pervasive at this point. I think most of our schools, and not just simply eight fifty three schools, but 4201s, 14410s, will probably say lot of the same things. I think from some prior testimony today, we heard the same thing, that even amongst public schools, infrastructure is a significant problem. But I think that's where most of it lies is infrastructure issues. I think one of the issues that we have, particularly at the eight fifty three schools, is the length of time that it takes for the waivers to go through the process with state ed and then DOB. State ed has been spectacular in catching up with waivers at this point. But we're getting reports about four to five years for resolution of waivers. And that means that schools like ours have to put out significant investments before they're able to realize it back in rates later on.

[Speaker 59.0]: Just to piggyback on something he said is Kurt, what I talked about are vestibules and lockdown systems going on. We put in for approval last month. We don't expect approval in this fiscal year, which is going to make it really tough. I don't know how it's going to work with the methodology. If we have to put money out in this fiscal year, not get approval to the next fiscal year, I don't know if that's going to affect our tuition rate. So it makes it and this is, in the capital side, a rather smaller project. I can't imagine taking that risk with a larger project.

[Speaker 11.0]: Yeah, if I may, I would like to add I do agree. And we also have to remember the wait time also impacts the cost because you have a cost estimate at the beginning. But then two, three years later, those prices have skyrocketed. So then we have to find extra funding to cover those gaps. And those are additional issues that need to be considered. As you said, many of our buildings are old. Many of them are not ADA compliant. Many of them are not even fire code compliant. The technologies now are not up to date. There's a variety of reasons there. But I do think it's important. And students deserve a great place to learn. Our staff deserve a great place to work. And we don't currently have that. And that is something that we need to be committing to them.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: You have one? Thank you. Okay. Assembly member Simon.

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: So

[Speaker 52.0]: but I have a question actually for Randy. So Randy, you talked about the foundation aid formula. And the state ed commissioner has recommended, for example, changes to the foundation aid formula. And they mentioned particularly students who are homeless, but they don't mention students in foster care. And as you know, the education success rate and life success rate for children who are in foster care is greatly diminished. It's like two percent graduate from college. Can you help us tell us why foster care matters and why there should be a waiting for foster care and how much it costs us to do what it is we need to do for foster care kids?

[Speaker 83.0]: Absolutely. We think that there should be a weight added for students who are homeless and students in foster care, and we join with more than 120 organizations in making that recommendation. Just to give quick numbers, I know Senator Mayer has been asking all day for the statewide number of students who are homeless. And so, the latest public data we have that is for the full year is the 'twenty three-'twenty four school year, when 187,302 students experienced homelessness over the course of the year. Our point in time data for the twenty four-twenty five school year, as of B. E. D. S. Day, one hundred and fifty five thousand two hundred and forty two students were homeless on that day. The number is obviously much higher if you look over the full year, and that's six percent of students statewide. On that same day, around 8,600 students were in foster care, less than 1%. And so, we think it's very important to take the needs of both of these student groups into account, because they both face obstacles to education. Whether you lose your housing, when you lose your housing, and are placed in a neighborhood that is often far away, when you are pulled from your home, away from your family, and placed often with someone you do not know, sometimes without your siblings, that is a traumatic experience. Both of those experiences are often traumatic experiences. Both students who are homeless, and students in foster care often end up living far away from their school, and have to make the very difficult decision of whether we keep the student in their current school, and have a very long commute, or whether the student transfers. Transferring schools in the middle of the school year. The research shows how bad that is, but we don't need research to understand, right, that transferring schools in the middle of the year, having to get used to new teachers, new peers, new routines, at a time when you're also living in a new place, often with people you don't know, is very, very difficult. And we have the academic outcomes to show what that means. And we've also seen examples of what can be done to support these students with added funding.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Simon Otis.

[Speaker 28.0]: You very much. I want to just follow-up with a little more on the capital. For the eight fifty three's totally sympathetic, and we need to create some sort of system to deal with that and the other special act situations. For 401s, there is a longstanding fund that gets reappropriated every few years as needed. Do you have and you can get this to us later the status of the last $30,000,000 capital fund that SED puts out RFPs for periodically. Is that already all committed to schools or is there another round of proposals coming out?

[Speaker 11.0]: Yes, I can respond to that. We had three rounds of $30,000,000 and I do want to thank you for your support in that. The first round was five years ago or just about five years ago and all of the schools have used those funds. Again, when we apply for those monies, many schools got approval a few years later which then impacts our ability to actually make the improvements to the capital projects because prices have changed over the years. We're now in the second round. And I know many schools have started to submit the paperwork, to submit the waivers, the MWBs, all of the forms for those projects. And again, we do appreciate that. But $30,000,000 is also not enough when you think about the details, the cost, the system. We're talking HVAC systems. We're talking about roofs. We're talking about a variety of capital improvements. So we do appreciate the next round of $30,000,000 as well.

[Speaker 28.0]: And for the August three's, describe a little more what schools are doing to maintain infrastructure without the kind of help that you need.

[Speaker 55.0]: J. What's being reported to us is that they're taking out lines of credit for themselves, which then adds to their debt. And it really changes and impacts their rates potentially. I can explain from one of my perspectives, where we do have reserve, we'll invest into our schools. And then we have to risk whether or not it will be reimbursed in rates or not, depending on whether it's direct or not. So there are a couple of different ways that schools have been trying to address those needs.

[Speaker 28.0]: J. And to what extent some eight fifty three's have closed. To what extent is just not being able to keep up with capital a figure, a factor, and just saying we have to throw in the towel?

[Speaker 55.0]: I would have to try and find out about that. At

[Speaker 73.0]: this point, really wouldn't know.

[Speaker 28.0]: Okay, no problem. Thank you very much. Additional detail on that would be great. And for the other special acts, similar sort of information to us would be great.

[Assemblymember Ed Ra, Ranking Member (Assembly minority designee)]: Do you mind if I add

[Speaker 59.0]: one quick point? Just sorry. Something that would be helpful would be able to add a contingency plan when we're a contingency line when we're putting in last when we were putting in capital projects. They've told us we can't put in a contingency line. And just having a 10% contingency, which most project managers do, would be helpful with those rising costs.

[Speaker 28.0]: I would say to get both chairs more information on all of that from all of you. So thank you.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: All right. Thank you. You. Now convene panel E, the New York Library Association, New York School Bus Contractors Association, Teach My Kid to Read, the Association of Public Broadcasting Stations of New York, Democracy Ready New York, and the New York State Association of Small City School Districts. I know Julian was a signer, a woman of many talents. I only know thank you, which is that.

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: There you go.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: It's all I know.

[Speaker 67.0]: It's a good

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: We're two hours ahead of schedule, you know.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, Senate Finance Committee]: Excuse me?

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Two hours ahead of schedule. That's good. That's good. This this is correct. Last year, it was nine. It was ten hours.

[Hearing Clerk/Staff (unidentified)]: Yeah.

[Speaker 73.0]: Yeah.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: I see an empty seat.

[Speaker 23.0]: Okay. Paul Quinn. Paul Quinn.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, Senate Finance Committee]: So be it.

[Speaker 49.0]: School bus contractors.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: He's not here?

[Hearing Clerk/Staff (unidentified)]: He's not here.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Already fixing his bus. Those two school buses, they're not you know? Okay. Good afternoon, everyone. I hope you're sitting in the order that you're listed on. One other thing that I'd appreciate it. So first, we'll start out with the New York Library Association.

[Speaker 23.0]: Afternoon. My

[Speaker 70.0]: name is Max Prime. I have the privilege of serving the New York Library Association as their director of government relations and advocacy. Thank you for providing me with the opportunity to testify today on behalf of our state's libraries, library systems, and the more than 10,000,000 New Yorkers who hold library cards. Governor Hochul's fiscal year twenty twenty seven executive budget includes $104,670,000 for state library aid, dollars 34,000,000 for library construction aid, dollars 3,000,000 for Novel New York, and $12,000,000 for the stabilization of the Office of Cultural Education. For New York's library community, the funding outlined constitutes a distressing retrenchment of the progress it has celebrated the last two years. It advances nearly $12,000,000 in cuts across core categories of library spending, erasing the gains secured by the legislature last year. While Nyla is grateful for the executive's inclusion of funding for Novel New York and Office of Cultural Education, failure to adequately support foundational library programs erodes the functionality of our state's library ecosystem and, in turn, undermines its ability to serve New Yorkers and their families. To that end, NILO requests 181,320,000 for state library aid. This program is the primary source of funding for New York's library systems, which provide shared services and resources to each library in our state. According to SED, each dollar invested in the state library program returns $7 in local library services. Sustained underfunding across three decades, approximately $2.00 $7,000,000 since Formula eight began, has led to depleted services, degraded technology assets, and diminished capacity for community educational programming. Adjusted for inflation, the $76,000,000 deemed statutory for the first year of Formula funding, 1992, would be $181,320,000 And that's before factoring in the costs of new technology and services that have emerged in the last thirty five years. We are asking for $175,000,000 for library construction aid. For the second consecutive year, the executive budget proposes an austere 22.7% cut to state aid for library construction. And I will lament that the legislature is once again forced to engage in the process of identifying and resecuring this aid in response to proposed cuts. Unfortunately, the frequent repetition of this process has left the program stagnant and underfunded. With the success of the year of underfunding, the level of statewide need continues to grow and now sits at $1,750,000,000 which the governor's proposal would cover just 1.9%. Data from the New York State Division of Library Development shows that 72% of our state's public library buildings are 50 years old or older, with thirty six 100 years or greater. As they age, need for capital support is rapidly expanding. NILA also supports 11.33 per pupil for library materials aid, dollars 31,000,000 for Novel New York, and $12,000,000 for the stabilization of the Office of Cultural Education, as has been included in the executive budget. Libraries cannot continue to serve their communities and students with the proposed budget. From providing a supportive environment for students to do homework and explore their intellectual curiosities to offering free access to entertainment and education resources for families experiencing financial insecurity, providing passport services and support for new immigrants, and aiding job seekers working to get back on their feet, New York's libraries have something to offer every New Yorker. We implore the legislature to invest in our state's libraries so that your constituents, our patrons, and our communities can thrive. Thank you.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Thank you.

[Hearing Clerk/Staff (unidentified)]: Chairs and members of the legislature, thank you for the opportunity to testify. My name is Marianne Waldman. I am the executive director of Teach My Kid to Read, a nonprofit that works with public libraries nationwide to support literacy from birth through adolescence with a primary focus on pre k to three reading. New York's new education law has moved classroom instruction in the right direction. But families do not experience literacy only in schools. When a child struggles to read, many parents first turn to their public library because it is trusted, free, and accessible. Librarians want to help, but most have not received Science of Reading aligned training or implementation support. We are asking the legislature to fund a $215,000 initiative to change that. This investment would train 100 library professionals through a SUNY Indoor's Science of Reading micro credential, providing ongoing implementation support through a statewide community of practice, support 12 libraries in launching family literacy programming, place 3,000 decodable books into circulation, and reach over 1,000 families with free evidence based literacy support. It also includes a formal evaluation and expansion plan for the state education department and the New York State Library. Participating libraries serve between 150,300 New Yorkers, including families in high needs communities.

[Senator Shelley B. Mayer, Chair, Senate Education Committee]: This is a low

[Hearing Clerk/Staff (unidentified)]: risk, accountable initiative that aligns directly with Education Law Section eight eighteen and allows the state to test and refine a scalable model before expanding it statewide. As one library director told us, bringing the science of reading to librarians is such an important part of developing equitable community literacy hubs. A small investment can make a big impact. We respectfully urge the legislature to include this initiative in your one house bills and final budget negotiations. Thank you.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Thank you.

[Speaker 71.0]: Thank you, chairs and members of the legislature. I appreciate the chance to be here today. I'm Anthony b. Hayes, president and CEO of WMHC Public Media in the Capital Region and chair of the association of public broadcasting stations of New York. I'm here on behalf of all public television and public radio stations across New York. I want to start with what public media actually does. Public media is local. Our stations are locally owned, locally governed nonprofits, and we exist to serve our communities. Every day, we provide free local journalism, no paywalls, no subscriptions, covering state and local government, schools, health care, and issues that directly affect people's lives. In many parts of the state, especially in rural and Upstate communities, public media is the only consistent source of local news. We're also a trusted source of emergency information during severe weather and public safety events, working directly with emergency officials to get accurate information out quickly. We also play a major role in education from early learning programming for kids to free digital tools for teachers to lifelong learning and local history programming. Public media reaches people of all ages at no cost. That's the baseline. That's what New Yorkers rely on. The elimination of federal funding for public media broadcasting hit the system hard and fast. Across New York, stations absorbed more than $28,000,000 in losses in just a few months. The impact was immediate staff layoffs, canceled programs, reduced news coverage, and scaled back education services. And those cuts show up very locally. In the North Country and in the Adirondacks, journalism projects were reduced and field reporting was cut and eliminated. In Buffalo, Syracuse, Rochester, Binghamton, Watertown, Oswego, in the Bronx, stations cut back local news, education programming, and community services. At WMHT, we've had to modify education services and programming that serve vulnerable audiences, including people who are blind or visually impaired. Smaller and rural stations have been hit especially hard because federal funding made up a much larger share of their budgets. And even the large New York City stations have absorbed major losses, losses that ripple across the entire public media system. Last year, the legislature stepped in with additional support for public radio. And I want to be clear, it was greatly appreciated, it mattered. It kept stations on the air, protected local reporting jobs, and preserved service in communities where public media is the only source of news and emergency information. Without additional state investment, we will continue to lose journalism, educational programming, and community services that can't easily be replaced or rebuilt. On behalf of public media stations statewide, I respectfully urge you to include an additional $15,000,000 for public broadcasting. In the final FY twenty seven budget, it would help stabilize stations after an unprecedented disruption and allow us to refocus on local journalism, education, and emergency services where the public impact is greatest. Thank you for your time and for your continued support of public media.

[Speaker 74.0]: Thank you.

[Speaker 71.0]: Thank you.

[Speaker 60.0]: Okay. Good afternoon, Chair Pretlow, Chair Krueger, Chair Mayer, and Chair Benedetto, honorable members. Thank you for the opportunity to speak with you today. My name is Nan Eileen Mead, and I'm the co executive director of Democracy Ready New York. We're a nonpartisan, statewide, multigenerational coalition working to ensure high quality civic learning reaches all students regardless of zip code and empowers the next generation to participate fully and responsibly in civic life. With my co executive director, Jessica Wolfe, we convene a membership that includes statewide organizations such as NYSET, NISBA, NISCO, NISLA, rural schools, SLISA, and the state PTA, as well as cross sector representation from youth educators, civic organizations, civic education providers, and youth serving organizations across the state. Founded in 2018 as a project of the Center for Educational Equity at Teachers College, where Jessica and I were colleagues. Democracy Ready New York became an independent organization in 2025.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, Senate Finance Committee]: And as some of you

[Speaker 60.0]: know, prior to that, I was a member of the Board of Regents representing the first judicial district. Every student in New York has the right to an education that prepares them to participate fully in our democracy. As we approach the two hundred and fiftieth anniversary of the United States in 2026, New York has a historic opportunity to strengthen civic learning from the earliest grades through graduation. Together, New York's educators, students, and civic partners are advancing a shared call to action strengthen policy, invest in professional learning, and modernize civic learning for a rapidly changing world. With that, on behalf of the members of Democracy Ready New York, we urge you to make the following critical investments this year to ensure all New York students are prepared and motivated to participate in civic life. Number one, start early. Invest in strengthening elementary civic education, dollars 2,500,000.0. Excuse me. That would appropriate funds for pilot programs, curriculum development, and professional learning to expand age appropriate civic learning in the early grades. It would expand existing evidence based models for integrated curricula. And it would support the state education department in developing statewide guidance on integrating civic competencies and dedicated instructional time in the early elementary years. Number two, invest in the foundations of civic readiness. We request $5,000,000 to expand access to the Seal of Civic Readiness and other experiential civic learning opportunities. In fact, only 26,000 out of 172,000 graduates currently receive the seal. We'd like to allocate funding for professional learning, aligned to update graduation requirements with the Portrait of a Graduate and New York Inspires. Number three, modernize civic learning through media and AI literacy for all, 15,000,000. That would oh, wow, that went fast. Thank you for your time.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Thank you.

[Speaker 82.0]: Good evening. On behalf of the New York State Association of Small City School Districts, our 250,000 students, our 1,500,000 residents in our cities, and our brothers and sisters that have spoken before you today, thank you for this forum. We concur with our panelists on the concerns of electric bus zero emission mandates, the stressors of mental health facing our school systems, the importance of childhood nutrition, the optimism of Portrait of a Graduate, and the real concerns of federal uncertainty as it impacts our school districts. The simple reality that we've all spoken about today is that the formula does not align with our reality and does not help us close the gap to reaching our future goals. Under the executive proposal, 43.4% of our districts will receive 1% foundation aid increases and 84% would receive 4% or less. This is not an increase, but a reduction in real terms which will cause monumental cuts in programs, staffing supports, and the growth we have seen in recent years since the pandemic. New Rochelle's story parallels our association's reality. New Rochelle is facing a 9% tax increase to meet its existing needs. It would require a budget cut of $23,000,000 and a loss of 93 position if the executive proposal remains unchanged. New Rochelle has the ability to levy a 1.85% allowable tax levy increase but would still require an additional 9% to an 11.77% tax increase just to maintain not to move forward. This equates for a $16.90 dollar tax increase for the average taxpayer in New Rochelle. New Rochelle's reality will cascade across the state if we do not make meaningful, thoughtful changes to foundation aid. Our association has completed a supplemental at risk costing out study to help the assembly, the senate and the executive deliver a sound basic education for students today and students of the future. We support the pre K per pupil initiative to increase the base amount and suggest, as do national experts that we have partnered with that have provided testimony in our packet, that this approach could help provide and bridge a gap until the entire foundation aid formula is recalibrated for the next generation of New York State learners. We welcome the opportunity to partner with all stakeholders in the state to fix the formula to ensure a sound basic education and to ensure that the Empire State is the leader in K-twelve and pre K education and all of the elements of education that you have heard today. Thank you.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Thank you. Assemblyman Benedetto.

[Assemblymember Michael R. Benedetto, Chair, Assembly Education Committee]: Thank you very much. Thank you, everyone, for your testimony. Robert, please, don't know why you're with this group. People to be with, but I don't know if you well, at any rate, Okay? I asked one of the other panels in regards to basically what it comes down to remote counseling and possibly a way to save money where you don't have the possible teachers. Has and some of the other small school districts ever employed some sort of teaching remotely like this?

[Speaker 82.0]: Yes, I can speak to that. My time as a superintendent in Salamanca and Cattaraugus County, we attempted right before the pandemic to initiate a mobile mental health and medical clinic. And as David Little from rural schools said, we ran into roadblock after roadblock with through the Department of Health and the education department in allowing that to happen. There are avenues across the country, as David had suggested, where that is absolutely regular business that occurs. It just has not yet come to New York State. And that would help every school district access high need services that they can't independently staff. It would be very efficient, but New York State is not quite there yet.

[Assemblymember Michael R. Benedetto, Chair, Assembly Education Committee]: J. Okay. I thank you. Thank you, Gary. J. Thank you. Okay.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, Senate Finance Committee]: Shelly Maher?

[Senator Shelley B. Mayer, Chair, Senate Education Committee]: J. Yes, I do. First, Bob, what's the total gross ask for your supplemental appropriation?

[Speaker 82.0]: We've listed it as several different options If within the we want to just revise the formula based on the actuary work of Doctor. Baker and his team from University of Miami, Rutgers, and I believe out in Iowa, that cost would be somewhere between 3 and $50,000 to $500,000 to recalibrate the study. And then the implementation of that would be a factor of how much the legislative bodies would allocate. It is a big financial ask, but then it recalibrates the entire system for another fifteen to twenty years, as we attempted to do with foundation aid approximately eighteen years ago.

[Senator Shelley B. Mayer, Chair, Senate Education Committee]: Yeah, but we made some changes last year. They enough were for everybody. Understand that. But it isn't like we haven't addressed some modifications. Okay, I just want to say to Mr. Hayes, I so appreciate that you actually gave a list of the cuts as a result of the federal rescissions. Of all the people who testified today, this is one of these very concrete things that we are losing because of the end of the Corporation for Public Broadcasting in New York. Am I right?

[Speaker 51.0]: You are correct.

[Senator Shelley B. Mayer, Chair, Senate Education Committee]: So, for example, Bronx Community Programming at WFUV and in Buffalo, Let's Go program is canceled. And in Albany, the Albany based statewide reporter for WNYC is canceled. These are concrete things. What is the ask on behalf of the public radio and TV stations for the budget?

[Speaker 71.0]: $15,000,000

[Senator Shelley B. Mayer, Chair, Senate Education Committee]: And would that allow us to restart the things that are being canceled here?

[Speaker 71.0]: Yes.

[Senator Shelley B. Mayer, Chair, Senate Education Committee]: Okay. And a lot of them are in rural communities or Upstate. And some are in Downstate, WMYC and Downstate. But for those of us that are elected and we care about local news coverage, I just encourage you to make sure that all of our members know what in their district they are losing as a result of this cut in federal aid. So I'm very supportive of trying to help restore these funds.

[Senator Jabari Brisport]: Thank you very much. And we appreciate the guidance.

[Speaker 71.0]: And there is more actually written out in our written testimony in Okay.

[Senator Shelley B. Mayer, Chair, Senate Education Committee]: And, Ronann, thank you very much for democracy ready and your pretty modest asks for increasing this. I think everyone agrees, particularly the elementary part that I think the commissioner mentioned also in her testimony. Is it your view that our civics education in kindergarten through like third grade is existent, or is it nonexistent?

[Speaker 60.0]: I think the answer is it depends. Does that mean I should keep talking? I think practices that go on in early childhood classrooms that are not necessarily connected to civic learning. That can be.

[Senator Shelley B. Mayer, Chair, Senate Education Committee]: Okay.

[Assemblymember Robert C. Carroll]: Thelma Carroll. Thank you, Chair Pretlow. Marianne, the $215,000 that would provide micro credentials in evidence based literacy for librarians, where would that micro credential be done, or what institution would that micro credential be done through?

[Hearing Clerk/Staff (unidentified)]: That's with the Science of Reading Center at Symposium. We work in partnership with them.

[Assemblymember Robert C. Carroll]: Fantastic. And remind us how many librarians would that in fact, teach?

[Hearing Clerk/Staff (unidentified)]: LESLIE the base level, it would be 100.

[Assemblymember Robert C. Carroll]: J. Fantastic. Thank you. It's a fantastic program, and one that is worth its weight. And we should definitely do it. Max, Can you remind us, if the state had kept up with inflation for the operating budget of our libraries, what would we be funding them at?

[Speaker 70.0]: J. We'd be at $181,320,000

[Assemblymember Robert C. Carroll]: And we're at the governor is proposing to fund them at $104,700,000 this year, correct? Yes. Thank you so much. Thank you both for your testimony. Thank you, everyone else.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Thanks. Thank you.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, Senate Finance Committee]: Senator Bino. Thank

[Speaker 25.0]: you, chair. Good evening all. Max, I have a very similar question to my colleague across the way there. If we had kept up with funding for the school aid to the libraries, what would that figure be at this point? For

[Speaker 70.0]: the library materials aid?

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: Yep.

[Speaker 70.0]: So we're asking for that to be at $11.33 per pupil. That would be funding, at this point, roughly only half of one book per student. We're at a quarter of one book per student right now. We'd love to go even higher, but we've been grinding away since 2007 trying to get it just to the 11, so.

[Speaker 25.0]: Okay. I read somewhere that the fact that we haven't funded you is almost like a 33% cut in that budget line.

[Hearing Clerk/Staff (unidentified)]: So

[Speaker 25.0]: we need to really pay attention to that. I'm going to really advocate for that this year. I think it's important, along with the advocacy program. The $215,000,000 given the grand need to make sure our children are proficient in literacy, I think, is a drop in the bucket. So I think teach my kid how to read is a very important program. Max, can we talk a little bit about the capital? So I know that I think it's stated that we're cutting $10,000,000 out of that budget line this year. And can you talk about the overall need across the state for construction aid?

[Speaker 70.0]: J. Absolutely. So the Division of Wide Web Development estimates statewide need on a five year basis. So for the current five year period, it is $1,750,000,000 That's up $220,000,000 from the last five year period. So we are rapidly increasing as we continue to not invest what's needed to invest there. What we are asking for, that $175,000,000 would be onetwo of one year to take care of it in that five year period. And that would represent roughly the share that we would need the state to kick in so that we could leverage local funds effectively and match the local match needs.

[Speaker 25.0]: Okay. Thank you, Max.

[Speaker 70.0]: Thank you.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Thank you. Assembly member Simon.

[Speaker 52.0]: Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair. So, Nan, I really appreciate what you're trying to accomplish here. And overall, it would be reasonable in a lot of years. But I don't know if you were here earlier to hear how many people had dibs on the revolution.

[Speaker 60.0]: I heard a little on the drive up, but yes.

[Speaker 52.0]: My district was the first battle. I just want you to know.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, Senate Finance Committee]: Noted. And

[Speaker 52.0]: so I appreciate all your testimony. Certainly, the public broadcasting is critical. And losing so much of that is really such a danger to the civic education of our adults and our kids. Marianne, great work. Definitely something we should be funding. And I'm looking forward to seeing how successful it is so that we can expand that. And then we can move on to the pediatricians. Okay. And thank you. I don't really have anything to say about libraries. But I appreciate all your work. Yeah. I got a bigger Brooklyn Public Library is a little bit bigger than than, the issues that we have outside of the city. So keep up the good work. And I know we're going to want to provide that support to you. And New Rochelle. I went to college in New Rochelle. So lot of work there that we have to do with our schools. And I know that we're all committed to following through on that. Thank you all

[Speaker 44.0]: for the Thank you.

[Senator Shelley B. Mayer, Chair, Senate Education Committee]: Senator Murray.

[Senator Dean Murray, Senate Libraries Ranker]: Thanks, gentlemen. Thank you all for being here. Again, with three minutes max, I'm going to pepper you a little bit here. But first, let me say this. I feel honestly blessed with the libraries I have in my district. We do so much work together, and they are incredible. I can only hope that all the libraries across the state are even half what they are, because they're incredible. With that said, are we seeing an increase in patronage, a decrease? What are we seeing over the past couple of years?

[Speaker 70.0]: So we're definitely seeing minimum consistent patronage, if anything, increased patronage going through the last few years. And definitely a rebound, of course, after COVID, folks coming back into the library for our programming and services. Of course, during COVID, folks moved over to the digital side of things a lot, which has continued as well. And we have, of course, a massive bill for e books. But we are seeing that continued patronage.

[Senator Dean Murray, Senate Libraries Ranker]: Now part of that, a lot of the libraries have Maker's Labs and things like this. Do all of them have that? Or is there a select few? Or how many of them do have Maker's Lab?

[Speaker 70.0]: So I don't have the exact numbers on how many do have them. But it's certainly not all of them, because not all of them can afford that necessarily. So that's something that that investment from the state can help to spread throughout and make sure that all communities across New York can benefit from those spaces.

[Senator Dean Murray, Senate Libraries Ranker]: Right. I've heard stories where people have actually started businesses from learning to use a three d printer and things like this. So they are really, really beneficial. And that, again, if we could just up that aid to allow for them to grow like that. But move to Novel New York. Can you give me the elevator pitch? Tell people what Novel New York is.

[Speaker 70.0]: J. Yeah, of course. So Novel New York is a web based suite of databases and digital resources that features hundreds of magazines, journals, newspapers, etcetera, research and reference materials that's available to all New Yorkers across New York. But it is really heavily utilized by a lot of our schools and in some locations can be the only suite of databases resources that they have access to. And so it becomes really important for making sure that there is equity across the state and making sure that our students are on the same level and ready as they move forward into college and careers.

[Senator Dean Murray, Senate Libraries Ranker]: J. So that's funding right now, that's funded at $3,000,000 But you had mentioned you were asking for 31?

[Speaker 70.0]: So $3,100,000

[Assemblymember Doug Smith, Ranking Member, Assembly Education Committee]: Oh,

[Speaker 54.0]: sounds so sorry.

[Assemblymember Michael R. Benedetto, Chair, Assembly Education Committee]: Yeah. I

[Senator Dean Murray, Senate Libraries Ranker]: thought that's a

[Speaker 70.0]: big Hey, take 31. Dollars 3,100,000.0 in order to keep pace with those contracts have kind of baked in increases periodically. We want to make sure that this coming year, we're able to keep all of the resources we already have there and not lose anything that our students are currently having

[Senator Dean Murray, Senate Libraries Ranker]: access Okay. Five seconds left. High speed internet. Are we there yet, upstate in all the libraries? Do we have it?

[Speaker 70.0]: So we are we're still working on that. The Fed Part of the construction agency.

[Senator Dean Murray, Senate Libraries Ranker]: There's a commitment there?

[Speaker 70.0]: Yes.

[Senator Dean Murray, Senate Libraries Ranker]: Okay. Okay. Thank you.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Thank you very much, Al. I just want to thank you all for what you do. It's unfortunate that all five of you are under attack right now from certain elements in our society. They're not burning books yet, but they are banning them. And that hasn't come to New York yet, and I hope that it doesn't. PBS, I love PBS, but I have to correct you when you said it's free. There's no paywall. You can watch all the new stuff free, but if you want to watch Ken Burns, you have to either be a subscriber or send in some books. But it's fine because I love Ken Burns and he does great work. And PBS must have contracted him and he do he does all of his work work for you. And, New Rochelle, I feel your pain. I live right next door to you. I I I know what's going on in New Rochelle. And the same thing is going on in in your neighbor, Mount Vernon, and their neighbor, Yonkers, and basically all of the I used the word poorer, but I that's probably a good word for it. Districts in Westchester County and throughout the state. I know you represent more than just those two districts. Actually, Mount Vernon left here. They joined the big eight. They were a small city, not a big eight, but just smaller than New Rochelle. We don't go there either. So anyway, that's why, like I said, thank you all for what you're doing, and keep up the good work.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, Senate Finance Committee]: J. A couple. Hi. Thank you. Also, you think about libraries and civic education and public radio and TV. It's like how a huge percentage of the people in this country have learned all they know for literally hundreds of years when you think about the history of libraries in this country. And yes, Ken Burns, too.

[Senator Andrew Gounardes]: You're absolutely So

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, Senate Finance Committee]: just help me. So radio TV, public radio TV, how many people in the state of New York are your viewers or your listeners? Do you know?

[Senator Dean Murray, Senate Libraries Ranker]: I can get that information for

[Speaker 71.0]: you on that road.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, Senate Finance Committee]: Because my understanding is, like, it's enormous. Mean, much of the state of New York, for pretty much all local news, you've got public radio. And that's sort of what's left out there.

[Speaker 71.0]: J. That is correct. J.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, Senate Finance Committee]: And yet, we're losing it so rapidly. And I know because I had another meeting with some folks from both radio and TV. And I learned that in one attempt to make sure that the shows don't go off and they keep going, they used to, the larger stations who produce more of the shows than the smaller, they used to charge the smaller ones some money. And they've stopped doing that. So knowing that we've lost so much from the federal government, everybody's trying to fundraise more. And that's what you're doing here today. You should be here. But also recognizing that if we lose any of these stations or any of these shows, we've lost something enormous for New Yorkers. So trying not to have that happen by not charging each other to keep the shows going. And I just think that's another thing that's so important for everyone to know. And on civic education, I don't know if you were here earlier today when the new chancellor for the New York City School System was here. I'm trying to remember whether he said it or he told me when I met with him earlier. His big sort of priority, sort of new thing to do is civic education throughout the New York City school system.

[Speaker 60.0]: Yeah, that's great.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, Senate Finance Committee]: And I think that's fantastic. J.

[Speaker 60.0]: And they have a good model. J.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, Senate Finance Committee]: Right? And there may be things that you've been able to do at smaller scales that can be replicated on larger scales if the City Of New York is really going to take seriously the importance of civic education in all the I think throughout the grade, it's different. Because we're also really lacking that. And I feel it when I talk to young people, that they don't understand. I even get personally a little mad. They tell me I registered to vote. I'm like, doesn't even count. You have to do that. Like, that's the most base thing you could possibly tell me. I have to stop. Thank you all very much for

[Hearing Clerk/Staff (unidentified)]: your work.

[Speaker 60.0]: Thank you.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Thank thank thank you all for your for your for your testimony. It is appreciated. We'll do the best that we can to help you out. Thank you.

[Chancellor Kumar Samuels, NYC Department of Education]: Thank

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, Senate Finance Committee]: you. Thank you very much. Can

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: panel f start to assemble, Teach New York State, Israel Of America. New York City Charter School Center, New York State Council of Catholic School Superintendents, and the New York State Association of Charter Schools. Thank you. We only have two more panels. Okay. Good afternoon. Good day. Whatever. Yes. Actually, it's evening now. Evening. Good evening, everyone. Hope you're sitting in the order that I called you off. Teaching New York State. Sydney Altfield? I'm ready.

[Speaker 29.0]: Good evening. I guess it's evening. Good evening Chair Krueger, Chair Pretlow, Mayer, and Benedetto. It's good to be here again to speak on behalf of 400,000 non public school students. Thank you to the other distinguished members of the Senate and Assembly for sticking with us tonight. I'm here on behalf of 400,000 students that attend non public schools. That is about 14% of public school, the total population of kids going to school in New York. So a big portion of students attend non public schools. There's something that we've been hearing a lot about and I'm sure all of you have is affordability. And the affordability crisis happens on many levels of housing and rent and this and that. And one of the things I want to talk about is on security security in Jewish day schools, in Islamic schools, in Catholic schools that have had to burden the expense of increasing security due to ongoing threats, ongoing anti Semitism, shootings at Catholic schools across the country, our schools are shouldering that burden. And it's being passed on to the families. Schools are increasing their security needs because of the threats, and it is being passed on to our families. So we are asking for the Senate and the Assembly to fund the Non Public Safety Equipment Grant Program at $90,000,000 It was in the governor's budget for that much. We appreciate that $20,000,000 increase, and we ask for you to keep that as well. The next thing I would like to talk about is education excellence. STEM education, art and music education. This body has invested in STEM education, in art and music, in so many, in a myriad of ways. And one of the things that our schools have benefited from is the STEM program and the art and music program for non public schools. And we're asking that the assembly and the senate increase the STEM program from $85,500,000 to $100,000,000 That will just start to continue to scratch the surface of what is needed for the STEM program. It is currently, when allocated or when applied for, it is $133,000,000 is applied for. So it's being prorated lower, so schools are not getting exactly what they apply for. Just to give out a few names, in Chair Benedetto's district, St. Theresa's School gets $130,000 from that. They love having a STEM program that's investing in the school's needs, and the teachers, and the parents, and students that are going to be having these STEM jobs in the future. Chair Kruger, in your district, Cathedral High School, they received $281,000 from this program. Again, not really scratching the surface of what they apply for. So we ask for the full getting closer to the full funding of $100,000,000 Thank you.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, Senate Finance Committee]: Thank you. $100,000,000 for one school?

[Speaker 29.0]: No, no, no. Getting closer to the full funding of the program $100,000,000

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, Senate Finance Committee]: Thank you. Thank you.

[Speaker 41.0]: Okay. Good evening.

[Assemblymember Robert C. Carroll]: Good to be here again.

[Senator Cordell Cleare]: Good to

[Speaker 62.0]: see everyone, chairs. I agree with my colleague and friend Sydney on the requests. I want to talk about highlight a few other things. And in my written testimony, there's a full list of our budgetary priorities. I want to talk about mandated services. For the last three years, there's been a consistent shortfall in the MSA allocation, approximately 5%. Schools have not been paid in full. The current budget allocates $240,000,000 It may be enough for this year. We're not sure yet, but it certainly will not address the shortfall. So we're asking, again, the written testimony is more detailed. We're asking the legislator to please allocate a shortfall in the enacted budget. Same time, the immunization mandate has been severely underfunded. The mandated services statute includes compliance with the state immunization requirements, but the allocations are only provided to three localities New York City, Rochester, and Buffalo. Also, that statute caps the allocation the amount appropriated. It is high time for the legislature to correct this chronic underfunding, especially now with the current federal government downplaying the crucial role of immunizations in keeping our children healthy. According to a study conducted nearly a decade ago and shared and accepted by SED, Per pupil amount to comply with this amendment is about $30 You do the math. For statewide immunization, it would be an allocation of $11,500,000 We ask you to fold this into the full bucket of mandated services and remove the language capping the allocation. Now one other thing. Under New York state law, all children have the right to receive special education services. The needs of children are outlined in their ISPs. When districts have failed to meet their obligation to provide services directly, parents are forced to file a due process complaint with an independent hearing officer to get their entitled services. In May 2024, the Board of Readers adopted an amendment which would have restricted due process rights for parents of non public school students with disabilities under the implementation, excuse me, of an ISP. This proposal is not a clarification of existing law, but a new restriction that strips families of the only reliable enforcement mechanism ensuring that services are actually delivered. We also believe it conflicts directly with current education law, which requires ISPs to be created in the same manner and same content as IEPs and expressly cross references the due process framework. For two decades, not one state hearing review officer has ever held that implementation disputes fall outside due process. Removing this right would allow districts to recommend service without any obligation to provide them. Despite Actia Road, at least October, the Board of Regents once again adopted an amendment. We need legislative action. Senator McCarroll is sitting here as the latest legislation along with Senator Scarcello Spanton in the Senate. Critical legislation that ensures families retain access to due process hearings when school districts fail to deliver service. We strongly support this legislation. We urge you to pass it this session so kids can probably know their service will be delivered. Thank you.

[Speaker 73.0]: JAMES Thank you. Good evening. I'm James JAMES Merriman, head of the New York City Charter School Center. Thank you for the opportunity to testify. So I'm going to try to this year, I'm to try to slay finally the myth that we'll not die. When charter school students leave a charter school, they do not take the money. The school does not keep the money. It's 8NYCRR 119.1, first reg promulgated under the Charter Schools Act. And basically, it sets out a formula. Numerator, number of weeks a kid is in a charter school, enrolled and attending. Denominator, number of weeks in the school year. Quotient multiplied by the total amount of the per pupil. And if a school district has put more money in for that kid than the charter is allowed, the charter has to give that money back and it's trued up at the end of the year. So hopefully, this will put to rest. And if superintendents are telling elected officials that they, the charters, are keeping the money, they're fibbing to you. Second, I just want to say I've heard that it would be great to get rid of the mandate of rental assistance. But I want you to consider this. If you do, you're going to have all those kids, not a lot of them happy to necessarily be back in the district. And you're going to have to put them somewhere. And because charter schools get less per pupil than districts, the sum result will be that the district would have less per pupil to educate all those kids than it has today, though paying 40% of the rental assistance. The state pays 60%. Third, I'd just ask you to consider to welcome charter schools as partners in doing the work that all of you care so much about. I think sometimes because of the controversies, it blinds you to the miracle that charter school leaders have done. We know the difference in proficiency rates. A lot of you do. But less known, though, is that gaps in students who achieve at level four advance proficient. In math, for example, 30% in New York City charter schools of black students are at level four. That's advanced proficient, almost one in three. The same rate for the district is 12. And if you go down to the other end of the scale at level one, you see the same pattern. 10% in charter schools are at level one. That's good. It should be zero. And almost 30% of black students are at level one, functionally illiterate and innumerate. So I would hope that you would welcome charter schools as partners. We want to partner. Educators in the district want to partner with us. I hope that's the place we get to.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Thank you. You.

[Speaker 72.0]: JAMES Good afternoon, honorable chairs and members. My name is James Coltrora, Executive Secretary to the Council of Catholic School Superintendents. We

[Speaker 49.0]: want

[Speaker 72.0]: to add our voice to Sydney's from the TEACH Coalition and Rabbi Silver from Agudith Israel in supporting the critically important programs of non public safety equipment for our schools, as well as the STEM and art and music program. Those programs are fundamental to not only maintaining security for students and employees, everyone in the building, but STEM and art and music are critical for enabling our schools to equip students for the future that they're facing. I also want to spend some time on the special ed regulation that Assemblywoman Carol, thanked the commissioner for pulling that regulation. I would imagine that they're going to bring it back again. That's why your legislation and Senators Marcellus Manson's legislation is all the more important and should be enacted. They are attempting to, as they say, clarify. Yerukum, you said they're trying to clarify the law. It's actually a deliberate narrowing of the law in order to solve a problem that is rooted in the fact that New York City has not been compliant with special ed laws, state and federal special ed laws. So they're going to take it out on parents across the state, not just in New York City, for New York City's deficiency in complying with the law. That is wrong. So we hope you close that loophole by enacting that legislation. On mandated services aid, we're grateful that the governor provides an increase. But it's the same percentage increase that the governor is giving for foundation aid, 4.3%. That's a political number. That's not how mandated services works. Mandated services is full reimbursement for the administrative mandates that the state has imposed on our schools. And while the other grant programs are important, they're delayed in funding. There's no delay in getting mandated services aid. It's actually it's now in the law when it has to be paid. The problem is it's insufficient, and it's not meeting the state's obligation. Rabbi Silber talked about the deficiencies in the last three years. Those amount to $20,000,000 And the insufficient funding on immunization, which is a statewide mandate, the federal administration, as you know, is creating great concern and making it more confusing for parents who are coming to our administrators. Every public school principal, charter school principal, religious and independent school principal is on the front lines of enforcing the public health law. And they're spending an enormous amount of time doing it, and they need that reimbursement. That alone costs about $11,500,000

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Thank you.

[Speaker 85.0]: Good evening.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Good evening.

[Speaker 85.0]: Hi. My name is Anna Hall. And I'm a mom of three. Three kids who have gone to district schools, charter schools, and private schools. I'm also a taxpayer. I'm a former charter school founder and administrator and a former district teacher and a loyal library patron I was there earlier today and an NPR listener. And so I want to thank you all for all of your time today. Also for I'm not a New York I wasn't born in New York. But I've learned more about revolutionary history in New York from hearing. So I appreciate that. And I also want to thank you because you all are clearly folks. And folks you've heard today are lots of people with lots of interests who want to do right by kids and families in New York. And they need money to do it. And I've heard you get asked for a lot of noble causes, none of which I would disagree with. And your job, and a difficult one at that, is to balance incredibly hard realities, like inflation, buying green land doesn't come cheap, declining student enrollment, which is an incredible challenge that not only charter schools but districts are facing and are going to continue to face over the coming years. And then the changing student needs that you've heard from lots of folks and that charter schools are also experiencing. So the thing I really want to ask us all to move away from is this sense of compartmentalization and the idea that there are silos and there have to be winners and losers. I know you've heard from a lot of districts who have very real concerns and very real challenges about the current way, the current financial realities of charter schools in their districts. And those are things that I think are a reason for us to collectively revisit the ways that public education is conceived of in this state. Because the parents of those students are also taxpayers. And they don't care about the governance model of their student school. They want a place where their student is safe and can thrive. And in many places, there are dramatically more families enrolling their students in charter schools than are voting in school board elections or for their district's budgets. And so, I'd ask you to consider that these are families who do not feel included, represented, or served by the current district systems. And that is not an indictment of those districts. It's a request that we all grapple with the difficult tradeoffs and realities that are facing us in education today.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: So it's not more time. Thank you. Osborne Carroll?

[Assemblymember Robert C. Carroll]: Thank you, Chair Pretlow.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, Senate Finance Committee]: Thanks for hearing.

[Assemblymember Robert C. Carroll]: Thank you, Rabbi Silber and Mr. Kolchara about your mentioning of EISPs and the issues surrounding them. I think it's very important for my colleagues to know that the reason why this is a budget issue is because it's done under the cloud that we are saving money. And we're doing that on the backs of some of the most vulnerable children and families who are entitled to mandated services. And I am sure, if we do it on the backs of these children, we will it will soon be a stalking horse for children with IEPs in the public school system to take away their due process rights under the guise that we are being fiscally responsible. And not only would that be unjust, it would be cruel, and it would be financially deeply imprudent, even if it helps balance a budget in the next few years. So thank you, gentlemen, for your support and your testimony.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, Senate Finance Committee]: Okay. Hello, Senator Mayer.

[Senator Shelley B. Mayer, Chair, Senate Education Committee]: Okay. Thank you. Thank you to all of you. So many of I think I've worked with almost all of you on various things. One, Sydney, thank you very much for working with us and the governor's office and the state education department to get this NPSC money out the door. I think we have made strides. Thank you to your pushing and leadership, Jim as well, and all of you. You know have any of your schools actually received money for the last in the last tranche that we were working to get out the door?

[Speaker 29.0]: A little bit, not fully. Some have gotten notifications that it's coming, but not in hand. Okay. And not full reimbursement yet.

[Senator Shelley B. Mayer, Chair, Senate Education Committee]: And Could I add something

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, Senate Finance Committee]: to that?

[Speaker 68.0]: Yeah, sure. Not

[Speaker 62.0]: only that, there's been barriers thrown at them that have come previously, more clarifications, more receipts that have never been asked before. There were lot of barriers put up for schools to try to comply. That's part of the reason why it's been delayed.

[Senator Shelley B. Mayer, Chair, Senate Education Committee]: Yeah, no, no, I understand. I think there is a good faith effort to try to resolve that now. So thank you for working with us on that. And We fought hard for the money with you, and we want the money to go out the door. Jim, I have a question for you. Do you know the number of Catholic schools that have closed statewide in the last year?

[Speaker 73.0]: Not in the last year.

[Senator Shelley B. Mayer, Chair, Senate Education Committee]: There you go.

[Speaker 72.0]: Not in the last year. But it is a fairly consistent trend, actually since the 1960s, when we lost largely a free labor force of nuns and priests, right? In my thirty years representing the Catholic schools, we have moved from eight forty five to fewer than 400 schools. What's

[Senator Shelley B. Mayer, Chair, Senate Education Committee]: your you don't have a statewide you're downstate, right?

[Speaker 72.0]: No, all of All New York of New York

[Dr. Betty A. Rosa, Commissioner of Education, NYSED]: State.

[Senator Shelley B. Mayer, Chair, Senate Education Committee]: So what's the number that remain?

[Speaker 72.0]: We have just fewer than 400 schools.

[Senator Shelley B. Mayer, Chair, Senate Education Committee]: How many students?

[Speaker 72.0]: And exacerbated as the shift with support for charter schools

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, Senate Finance Committee]: Yes.

[Assemblymember Doug Smith, Ranking Member, Assembly Education Committee]: I want

[Speaker 72.0]: to be very clear. The bishops and the Catholic superintendents support parental choice. And we all have to live with the reality that when parents make decisions, just like everybody in this room, when your parents or you or yourself as parents make decisions, there are consequences to the marketplace. Just like when you choose to go to a particular grocery store over another particular grocery store, there are consequences to that. And a lot of people get upset with shifts in the marketplace. But if we support parents, we have to support their choices.

[Senator Shelley B. Mayer, Chair, Senate Education Committee]: Well, I'm not sure I would sort of say it that way, but I think it's clear that parents have left Catholic schools to go to charter schools, which are don't require tuition. It's just sort of a fact of life, I think, in many districts.

[Speaker 72.0]: J. Yeah. That is a reality. And we've found that in the past, half of the remaining students let's say a Catholic school might lose 15 students to a charter school. Let's say of 150 kids at a Catholic school. They lose 15 to a charter school. 50% will go to a neighboring Catholic school. Of course, there are fewer choose schools as you But the other 50% would prefer to stay in the Catholic school. But their Catholic school closed, so where do they go? They're going back into the public school.

[Senator Shelley B. Mayer, Chair, Senate Education Committee]: Yeah, understood. Thank you.

[Assemblymember Robert C. Carroll]: Other questions?

[Hearing Clerk/Staff (unidentified)]: Do you

[Senator Shelley B. Mayer, Chair, Senate Education Committee]: have a question?

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, Senate Finance Committee]: David? Good. Oh, assembly.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: ASSEMLING MIN.

[Assemblymember Ed Ra, Ranking Member (Assembly minority designee)]: Thank you. Just in terms of the security grants, do you have a number just in terms of what has been applied for over the last few years? Obviously, there's been a particular concern, especially with our Jewish schools, for increased security with some of the types of incidents we've seen over the last few years. But the $20,000,000 increase is great. But this is an issue I hear regularly from my non public schools in my district trying to get support for getting capital grants for security.

[Speaker 29.0]: Yeah. So every year, the money for NPSC is fully used. Turns into a per pupil allocation at the end of the day. So it's fully, fully used. We've done studies, and we have a new one coming out that I will share with everyone here, where we track how much money Jewish day schools spend on security from year to year, specifically pre October 7, post October 7. And we have seen that it has increased year to year since 2023 over a 100% spending. The majority of that money is being spent on guards. And the amazing thing about the MPSC program is that that reimbursement can be used on guards. It just hasn't hit the level where they can afford for a full guard with their funding. So schools could apply for $100,000 worth of funding, but they're only going to get that per pupil allocation of what's available.

[Speaker 72.0]: And let me just add to that. There's a broad array of uses for those dollars. You can assess hazardous conditions in your schools and remediate those hazardous conditions. After the shooting at Annunciation Church in Minneapolis, though, pastors and priests, parents have been coming. What are we doing to secure? Why doesn't our Catholic school have a security guard? A lot of Catholic schools thought they were secure enough simply by having a remote access at the door and cameras and so on. Clearly, it's not enough.

[Speaker 62.0]: J. Yeah. Again, I don't know if you I'm sure you all heard just last night in a major synagogue in Brooklyn, one of the most famous synagogues in the world, a car just ran into it. And thankfully, that could have been a car bomb. It was apparently just their person, whatever it was, just shows the need, great the need is after an incident like that. Just brings him to the forefront.

[Assemblymember Ed Ra, Ranking Member (Assembly minority designee)]: Thank you.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: LUISE B. I'm sorry.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, Senate Finance Committee]: Just one question. TEACH New York? Is that any private school that has STEM, or did you say it was specifically Jewish schools? I got lost.

[Speaker 29.0]: All schools, non public schools, can apply to the STEM program. It reimburses the salaries of their science, technology, engineering, and math teachers. They're qualified teachers that teach these subjects and it reimburses their salaries so that they can retain high quality teachers to teach high quality STEM.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, Senate Finance Committee]: So they could be Catholic schools J. Or other religious

[Speaker 29.0]: C.

[Hearing Clerk/Staff (unidentified)]: I was

[Speaker 29.0]: going to also say in Pretlow's district, there's a Muslim school that receives the funding. It's all different schools.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, Senate Finance Committee]: J. Got it. Thank you.

[Speaker 29.0]: J. You're welcome. Thank you.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: J. C. Benedetto. Yes,

[Assemblymember Michael R. Benedetto, Chair, Assembly Education Committee]: just a quick question, Mr. Coltreira. I know you mentioned about the reimbursement for mandated services. I also know in the past, those schools were owed money past due. They were supposed where do we stand on that? I know it was in the millions.

[Speaker 72.0]: If you're talking about the comprehensive attendance policy, prior year obligation, which started in 2005, has been satisfied. But there's an annual obligation for cap, comprehensive attendance policy. So when the state budget is deficient by 5% or 6%, as it was in the last three years, that affects the entire payment, which also affects capital. So there's an outstanding obligation that the state has. You're still liable for it. Schools are waiting for that reimbursement.

[Assemblymember Michael R. Benedetto, Chair, Assembly Education Committee]: Includes monetary That includes number on it?

[Dr. Christina Coughlin, Chief Financial Officer, NYSED]: 20. How much?

[Speaker 50.0]: We believe about

[Speaker 56.0]: 20,000,000.

[Speaker 62.0]: About 20,000,000, we believe, right now.

[Speaker 72.0]: Okay. 20,000,000 for the three year deficiencies, but that doesn't include the immunization deficiency, which is another 11,000,000. So we're asking for 31,500,000.0.

[Assemblymember Michael R. Benedetto, Chair, Assembly Education Committee]: That's what Thank we're

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: you. J. Thank you. J. Just have one comment, I guess. Mr. Merriman, heard the question that I asked the superintendents if you were here, and you heard the answer that they gave. And you're giving me something that's a diametrical opposite of what they had said. I think I have some insight now as to what's really happening. What you had quoted in the law is probably the law, but the law isn't being obeyed fully. There's a discrepancy when the reconciliation comes to pass between the charter schools and the districts. And the districts are saying that you owe more than not you personally, but the charter school owes more than it's willing to reimburse. I really don't have a problem with charter schools, except the way they're funded. I think if the state wants to approve charters, they should pay the full load and not force districts that then have to go out and tax people and get elected to raise money to pay the charter schools. I think the state should have a separate allocation just for charter schools and pay charter schools what they deserve and keep the school boards themselves or the publicly taxed school entities. They should actually keep them whole.

[Speaker 85.0]: And if I could just speak to that very quickly, Assemblyman, because in New York City, New York City schools are I'm going to say blessed, although they're not here to dispute that with a system called ATS, which tracks the movement of students very precisely between all manner of public schools. Outside of New York City, it's a very different, environment. And so there is law about how charter schools invoice districts and provide rosters, and the districts validate the residency of students. And quite frankly, it causes a lot of it's a lot of work, and it's a lot of frustration, and it's a lot of headaches because charter students, just as a reminder, tend to be among the more impacted students in terms of issues of socioeconomic disadvantage and things like that, which are also more subject to people who are moving a lot and are less able to do things like establish residency. And so those aspects of the nature of having access to both state and local share funding pervade the challenges and frustrations that charter schools also experience. But the law is clear, and our association spends a lot of time and energy with charter schools ensuring that they are their housekeeping is good in those regards. And so if you are aware of any schools that are not working effectively with their districts to have this sort of reconciliation that James was talking about in terms of student enrollment and district payment and aspects of district residency, I want you to please let me know.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: I certainly will. Thank you all very much.

[Senator Andrew Gounardes]: Thank Thank

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: you for your time and thank you for sticking And I'll call the final panel G, the Alliance for Quality Education, the Education Trust of New York, Coalition for Equitable Education Funding, You FFED, and Youth Vote USA.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, Senate Finance Committee]: It's still much earlier than Last night, you would have been getting here at 09:45. Just saying. That's right.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: And last year, the hearing was nine hours and fifty three minutes.

[Hearing Clerk/Staff (unidentified)]: Not that we're counting. Yeah.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, Senate Finance Committee]: And Gary just has everyone memorized from every year. It's quite impressive.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: And someone is missing.

[Assemblymember Michael R. Benedetto, Chair, Assembly Education Committee]: Vote.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Youth vote's missing?

[Speaker 49.0]: Yaffet.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, Senate Finance Committee]: Yaffet's missing. Oh, Yaffet's right here.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Yaffet is here. So youth vote. I guess they're out voting. Alliance for Quality Education.

[Speaker 39.0]: There we go. Good evening. Thank you for sticking sticking this out. Thank you for staying to hear us out. Chairs Krueger, Pretlow, Mayer, and Benedetto, and everyone, thank you again for giving us this opportunity. My name is Marianne Markku O'Malley. I'm the co executive director of the Alliance for Quality Education. I don't know if you remember this, but I've been doing this for a very long time. This is my eighteenth year and probably, I don't know how many testimonies I have given. But AQE is a statewide coalition of community groups dedicated to organizing low income black, brown and immigrant parents to advocate for the well-being of their children starting at birth and throughout school years to graduation. This is a good year. This is a good budget. We are pleased that there is full funding for Foundation Aid, our bread and butter issue. And we are happy to see that we're beginning with at least a 1% minimum increase. And the changes proposed in pre K and early education in general give us a good start. So we would say yes please and thank you on pre K. If we really truly won a this is a good recognition that we really understand that early education depends on a strong early care and learning system. And a lot of concrete and solid communication between early education and K-twelve education. And you've heard a lot about this today, but I will say that yes, if we do not have enough room in public schools to expand pre K statewide, there is a whole world of early educators, of childcare providers across the state that are eager, that have been providing early education services to many families and are eager to continue to. So perhaps we can make sure that the two systems are not in competition with each other, that we invest in both, and that early educators deserve the compensation, get the compensation that they need to stay in the field so we can have more of them and we can accommodate all the children that are in need of a seat in the program. In addition, we would like to see an extension, the extension of mayoral control, that whole debate, that whole conversation be taken out of the budget. Chair Benedetto mentioned this earlier. We are one of those that believe that this does not belong here. And any extension of mayoral control should be a companion with changes to the system so that more meaningful participation of parent and community and educators are there. Thank you so much.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: J. Thank you.

[Speaker 44.0]: J. Hi, good evening. My name is Arlen Benjamin Gomez, and I'm the executive director of Ed Trust New York. Thank you for the opportunity to testify today. As you know, New York spends more per pupil on our students than any other state in the nation, yet our most recent NAEP results don't reflect that. They showed that New York ranks thirty seventh in the nation on grade four math, twenty fifth in grade four reading, twenty seventh in grade eight reading and math. State scores have not improved meaningfully since the 1990s. So that disconnect is at the heart of my testimony today. New York needs to both do greater and smarter investments. We need to have targeted investments in evidence based practices that we know improves in outcomes. And this moment demands urgency. At the federal level, we are seeing unprecedented instability and active threats to student safety, success, and opportunity, from cuts to early childhood programming and financial aid to rollbacks of civil rights protections and mental health supports. New York cannot control the chaos in Washington, but we can certainly choose to respond by strengthening our commitment to equity and evidence based practices in education. We are encouraged by several elements in the governor's executive budget. We strongly support the Back to Basics Math initiative. We were happy to see some additional investment in literacy through funding science of reading micro credentials and targeted district pilots for EPPs. We also welcomed investments in high impact tutoring, educator recruitment and pipeline programs, and continued development of statewide longitudinal data systems. At the same time, it doesn't go far enough, as we always feel in many areas. It does not include sufficient funding to train all teachers in the science of reading, ensure that all students are screened for dyslexia in kindergarten through second grade. It provides no new investment to support universal FAFSA completion. And it does not it has long standing shortcomings in financial aid, as everybody has been talking about today, particularly for districts with concentrated poverty and students who are experiencing homelessness and foster care. As you all consider your one house bills, we hope that you will build on what's strong in the executive budget, but also strengthen it. And we think you can do that in three ways. First, by expanding the investment in professional learning and science of reading, ensuring that every single teacher is trained in the science of reading, and we believe that's another $7,000,000 investment. Second is investing in systems that support equity and accountability. That includes the statewide longitudinal data system, transparent reporting on the use of foundation aid funding, and targeted funds that reflect the true cost of educating students experiencing poverty and homelessness. And finally, protecting students' pathways to post secondary success by fully supporting universal FAFSA completion and by providing districts with supports they need to meet new graduation measures. So thank you for the opportunity to testify today. We want to make sure that these investments in education are guided by evidence, informed by practice, and center student needs.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Thank you for what you're doing.

[Speaker 64.0]: Good evening, everyone. Chairs, assembly members, senators, thank you for being here. We're almost there. I am Chelsea Betamore. I am the director of policy and advocacy with the YMCA of Greater New York. And today, I'm actually speaking on behalf of the Coalition for Equitable Education Funding or CIF. So CIF is made up of more than 120 advocacy and civil rights organizations, social service providers, and groups that represent students, parents, and educators who have come together to advocate for the resources needed to ensure that every student receives a high quality education with a focus on those students that are most vulnerable and who need the most support. So I'm going to sound like a broken record compared to everybody today. While we appreciate that the state fully funded last year the foundation aid formula for the first time, the governor's proposed changes, unfortunately, are unchanged from over fifteen years ago, and it uses outdated and incomplete measures of need and does not adequately reflect the needs of today's students in our school communities. So the changes that were made last year resulted in New York City getting $314,000,000 less than it would have had no changes been made at all. So I'm gonna jump into our recommendations for the sake of time. We are essentially calling for you to ensure that the budget includes the continued full funding of the foundation aid formula with the two following changes. The first one is to update the regional cost index or the RCI to better reflect the rising costs of salaries and services. This metric is supposed to account for varying costs throughout the state. However, the values for most regions have been fixed since 2006. And an update to the RCI is needed to better reflect the higher salaries and costs required in school districts such as New York City, but not only New York City. Secondly, we're calling on the state to add a per pupil weight for students in temporary housing and students in the foster care system. So as has been said earlier tonight, last school year, more than a 154,000 New York City students experienced homelessness and around 6,700 students spent time in the foster care system. At present, the foundation aid formula does not provide any additional funding to help schools support these students populations, both of whom face tremendous obstacles to success in school and have educational needs distinct from all of those students in poverty. Thank you for the opportunity to testify, and I hope you all get home safe.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Thank you.

[Speaker 86.0]: Good evening, and thank you to the chairs and members of the committee for allowing me to testify. I'm Adina Merlstein Kanekoff. I'm the executive director of YAFED, Young Advocates for Fair Education, a Jewish led organization working to end educational neglect in Hasidic yeshivas. Last year, the legislature made major changes to standards at non public schools. These changes have given failing institutions eight more years to improve. Eight years is a long time in a child's life. Eight years for many students means going through school before any meaningful change even happens. That is unacceptable. I'm here today to urge the legislature to take responsibility for its actions. I'm here urging you to partner with us so we can connect families with educational programs that will help them bridge the gaps now. The 100,000 children in Hasidic yeshivas deserve this and their families need this because the consequences of educational neglect extend far beyond the classroom to limited English proficiency, steep barriers to the job market, and high poverty rates. That is why we were asking the legislature to fund our educational resource program. It's serving individuals who remain committed to the schools, but who are quietly and often at great personal risk seeking access to basic educational supports that include culturally competent tutors who speak Yiddish, high school equivalency pathways, and educational counseling. The office is the organization with the cultural competency to make this happen. We're working directly with individuals who want to recover what they have been denied. This funding is about restoring what has been lost and represents a chance at redemption for this body after it guided the state's enforcement system. After what has been taken from these students, it's the least we can do. And I look forward to partnering with you. Thank you for your consideration.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: J. Thank you.

[Speaker 39.0]: J. Thank you.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: J. Assemblymember Carroll. J.

[Assemblymember Robert C. Carroll]: Thank you, Chair Pretlow. Executive Director Benjamin Gomez, thank you so much for your testimony, and thank you for Ed Trust's continued advocacy for evidence based literacy reforms and interventions. As you're aware, or as you're probably aware, Governor Gavin Newsom signed into law in October a science of reading bill in California that would mandate not just evidence based reading reforms inside every classroom, but professional development to make sure the California schools, students, teachers were having the best education and best practices. They also allocated at that time over $400,000,000 in professional development and curriculum resources. If New York were to pass a similar law and to have a similar mandate, how much would it cost?

[Speaker 44.0]: That's a great question that I cannot answer. But I will say that California has invested over $750,000,000 in literacy. And New York has invested, I think, dollars 10,000,000 in 2024 and about 3,000,000 a little over $3,000,000 in the most recent budget. So we are far behind where we need to be. And we know that we need a multi year multi

[Assemblymember Robert C. Carroll]: J. Million dollar earlier today, we learned we haven't even spent that $10,000,000 So California spent $750,000,000 investing in the evidence based literacy, professional development, and curriculum. They're about twice our size. And we've spent maybe $13,000,000 but probably $1,000,000 in that.

[Hearing Clerk/Staff (unidentified)]: J.

[Speaker 44.0]: Yes. We need a multimillion dollar, multiyear investment. I think the governor's office said that we did literacy in New York and didn't need to continue to invest it. And so we were trying to work with them to say, no, this is an ongoing thing that we need to be working on.

[Assemblymember Robert C. Carroll]: J. Shocking. And, of course, we know that 50% of our schoolchildren read at below grade level and over 30% of them read at below a basic level, which for those who don't know, it means that you can't read at all. And that is devastating to hundreds of thousands of children in New York State every single day. Thank you so much for all your work. It's a phenomenal organization.

[Speaker 44.0]: Thank you. You've been great to partner with on this issue.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, Senate Finance Committee]: Education chair, Shelley Maher.

[Senator Shelley B. Mayer, Chair, Senate Education Committee]: Yes, last go around. But first please, thank you, all of you, for recognizing maybe, Adena, you didn't focus on this that to the governor's credit this year, she actually made investments in things that you all support and that we have worked for. Not enough acknowledged yet, but the early childhood, the 1%, which was more than some of us thought, we'd like to get more. Dean, I have a question. What's the for some reason, don't have your testimony. What's the amount, the dollar amount of this ask for educational resource program?

[Speaker 86.0]: Not the millions that my colleagues are asking for, which they also deserve. Or asking $50,000 for each chamber of the house.

[Senator Shelley B. Mayer, Chair, Senate Education Committee]: For each what?

[Speaker 86.0]: From the Senate and from the Assembly. We will go to the budgets for each.

[Senator Shelley B. Mayer, Chair, Senate Education Committee]: I see. And that would be a program targeted for children in these yeshivas?

[Speaker 86.0]: JULIE Yeah, Hasidic students and those who've gone through the school system who have not gotten a basic education to

[Senator Shelley B. Mayer, Chair, Senate Education Committee]: JULIE Do they have to be under 22 or 18? What if someone went to Yeshiva, as you know I have met, and really doesn't speak English well enough to get a job?

[Speaker 86.0]: Yeah. Right now, our intent So is to help all those who come to as some of you may know, we have a Yiddish language news line in which people call us secretly and asking for help and asking for these supports. And so we had over 7,000 phone calls in this past year for people wanting to have more information about what was happening in the schools, was change happening. If change isn't happening because of what's going here in Albany, then how could they get support for their children sooner? And so we're working to meet those needs.

[Senator Shelley B. Mayer, Chair, Senate Education Committee]: Okay. That's good to know. Just make sure we get the copy

[Speaker 26.0]: of the

[Senator Shelley B. Mayer, Chair, Senate Education Committee]: request. For Arlene, on the high impact tutoring, which I know the governor put in, my recollection is you have some data showing the impact of that in places where it's done. Is it being done in a way that you think is effective in any district in New York? I think New York City does some of it.

[Speaker 44.0]: Yeah, there are definitely programs in New York that do a great job on this. Expanded does as well.

[Senator Shelley B. Mayer, Chair, Senate Education Committee]: Oh, Expanded,

[Speaker 44.0]: And I think it will really be about how that money is spent. And so we're glad to see the investment. But making sure that it goes to high quality programs is going to DAVIS: be the most important piece of it.

[Senator Shelley B. Mayer, Chair, Senate Education Committee]: You had opportunity to consult with the governor's office at

[Speaker 67.0]: all? We

[Speaker 44.0]: JULIE have, and trying to figure out how the money flows and how to make sure it goes to vetted programs.

[Speaker 85.0]: Okay. Very good.

[Senator Shelley B. Mayer, Chair, Senate Education Committee]: And, Marianne, I think on the early childhood, you're supportive of the move to a mandate for four year old pre K full day.

[Assemblymember Stacey Pheffer Amato]: Is that what the proposal is,

[Speaker 39.0]: a mandate? I thought it was only to actually fund it and make No, it available to

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, Senate Finance Committee]: no.

[Senator Shelley B. Mayer, Chair, Senate Education Committee]: Two years, every district outside New York City would have to offer it.

[Speaker 39.0]: Would have to offer pre K for everybody who wants it. Yes. And that's the way we are very much in support of offering pre k for every family that that needs it. Thank you. Yeah.

[Senator Shelley B. Mayer, Chair, Senate Education Committee]: Thank you all.

[Assemblymember Michael R. Benedetto, Chair, Assembly Education Committee]: Thank you. Selman Benedetto? Yes. Just some clarifications. First, miss Gomez, for the high impact tutoring, what was the number you said you wanted? Would that be like?

[Speaker 44.0]: I feel like I'm not going I want to say we asked for $10,000,000 It didn't come in that high. I think it's at 6. But it feels like a significant investment that we haven't had on high impact tutoring.

[Assemblymember Michael R. Benedetto, Chair, Assembly Education Committee]: J. Thank you. And Ms. Am I correct in hearing that you want 50,000 from the assembly, 50,000 from the Senate, making $100,000 altogether?

[Speaker 86.0]: Yeah. And we've made a request into the governor's budget as well, into the governor's budget.

[Assemblymember Michael R. Benedetto, Chair, Assembly Education Committee]: Okay. Thank you very much. Thank you.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: Senator? I'm

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, Senate Finance Committee]: sorry. Senator no?

[Hearing Clerk/Staff (unidentified)]: Okay. No,

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, Senate Finance Committee]: thank you. Thank you very much for being with us so late. There may be more assembly.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow, Assembly Co-Chair]: No. Assembly is done. Thank thank you very much for for staying this late for us. And if you if you enjoyed this, if you really enjoyed it, we'll be we're reconvening on Tuesday at 09:30 for transportation. It should be about a nine or ten hour hearing. And feel free to sit around and, you know, make faces at us if you want. Okay? Thank you very much.