New York State SmartTranscripts:

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, NYS Senate Finance Committee]: That's great. Good morning everyone. Hi, how are you? Okay, we go over some basic ground rules before we start each day's hearing. So some of you have this all memorized, and some of you have perhaps never heard this. So I'm Liz Krueger. I'm the chair of the Senate Finance Committee, joined by Gary Pretlow, the chair of the Ways and Means Committee in the Assembly, which has the same meaning as finance. We've just decided to name them differently. But maybe they aren't the same. We'll compare notes one day. Before we start down the rules of how the hearing runs, I just want to remind everybody, if you are testifying or asking questions from the Bema, Oh, that's for synagogue, not for, sorry. The dais, sorry. Bema is dais if you're Jewish, sorry. Just know that you'll see clocks in front of you. The clock means that's how much time you have to testify if you're the testifier, and it means there's, if you're questioning, that's how much time you have to question. But really important to understand, that time is both your amount of time to ask questions and the testifier's amount of time to answer your questions. So some of us like to ask really long questions. If you do that and then you expect an answer, you're not going to get one cause the clock runs out as you're finishing your questions. We do hope that testifiers, if they get asked questions that they either don't have enough time to answer, or they know they have a great answer in writing somewhere but they don't think they could possibly roll it off their tongue right then, please feel free and we encourage you send your answers in a follow-up letter to both Gary and myself. We will make sure to post that the same way as your testimony is already posted up on the Assembly and the Senate websites. So even though you'll think, I can't possibly say what I need to say in ten minutes or three minutes, whatever testimony you submit to us, even if it's 100 pages, is going up on the website and all 20,000,000 New Yorkers can read it at their leisure. So it is still very, very valuable to have all of your information in writing and accessible to people. And then trust me, if you're a legislator and you didn't get enough time to ask your the testifier all the questions you wanted to ask them, trust me, if you call them up and say, I'd like to follow-up on that information you were attempting to provide yesterday, they will be happy to talk to you. Many of these groups live to talk to us, frankly. I mean, not literally, but you know what I mean. Their job is to talk to us and try to help us understand their perspective. So don't feel shy. Just follow-up with people. And since all that information is on the web, you can do so. So I just think it's important for people to know that. Also, if you are speaking and you have a microphone in front of you, there's a red circle and a green circle. If you press the push button, you need it to go to green, or we won't hear whatever you're saying.

[Senator Steve Rhoads]: And they all have a sweet spot. It says push on a button.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, NYS Senate Finance Committee]: And you'll push, and it won't go green. But then you'll push. You'll move your finger around and you just hit the sweet spot and it'll eventually go green. And some of us live up here and so we're really good at pushing the button and some of us aren't. So just look at the person next to you and say help. And we'll do our best to make sure your green light goes on. Okay, so that's the pre hearing intro. There are chairs. They get ten minutes to ask questions. And there are rankers. They get five minutes to ask questions. And then there are all the other legislators here with us from these committees, and they get three minutes to ask questions. That's of the government invited witnesses. And there are three at this hearing. We will get to that in a minute. And then when we get to the everyone who asked to testify but was not an invited government witness, they only get three minutes to give their testimony. And legislators also, no matter who they are, only get three minutes to ask questions, all right? But for the first set of panels that are the government witnesses, we can get ten minutes, five minutes, or three minutes. And if you're the chair of the relevant committee, you may also have a bonus three minute round at the very end. So that's sort of more for us to understand as we go into this. All right, so now, good morning. This is the Workforce Development Budget hearing. As I mentioned, I'm Liz Krueger. This is Gary Pretlow. Today is the eleventh of 14 hearings conducted by the Joint Fiscal Committees of the Legislature regarding the Governor's proposed budget for the state fiscal year 'twenty six-'twenty seven. These hearings are conducted pursuant to the New York State Constitution and legislative law. Today, the Senate Finance and Assembly Ways and Means committees will hear testimony concerning the governor's proposed budget for workforce development. Following each testimony, there will be some time, as I just explained, for questions from chairs of the relevant committees and rankers and other legislators. So I will now introduce my members from the Senate, Assembly member Gary Pretlow. We'll introduce members from the Assembly. And then our corresponding rankers, Tom O'Meara from Senate Finance and I'm sorry Assembly Member Palomero?

[Senator Steve Rhoads]: Pammasano.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, NYS Senate Finance Committee]: Pammasano. I'm so sorry. He's the new ranker for the Assembly because they had a little leadership switch the other day. So welcome again. And then he'll introduce his members. And so just starting with my members, we have Senator Ramos, who's the chair of labor. We have Senator Jackson, who's the chair of I'm so sorry. Excuse me. So civil service. We have Senator Fernandez, Senator Liu, Senator Sanders, and Senator Butcher, brand new Senator Butcher. So welcome again to the Senate. And Gary?

[Assembly Member Gary Pretlow, Chair, Assembly Ways and Means Committee]: G. Thank you, Senator Krueger. With us, we have our Labored Chair, Assemblyman Bronson, our government employees chair, Stacy Pfeffer Amato. Also joining us are Assembly members, Boros, Jacobson, Simone, and Tapia.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, NYS Senate Finance Committee]: And Senator O'Mara for the Republicans?

[Senator Tom O'Mara]: Yes, we're joined on our side by our ranking member on Labor, Senator Steve Rhodes. We're joined by Senator Rob Bralisson and Mario O'Materra.

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: Thank you. Assembly?

[Assembly Member Jodi Giglio]: Yes, I can.

[Senator Tom O'Mara]: Oh, sorry about that.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, NYS Senate Finance Committee]: It's okay.

[Senator Tom O'Mara]: Yes, thank you. Joining us from the assembly minority side, we have our labor ranker, Michael Durso our government employees ranking member, Joseph DeStefano We also have Matt Slater and Dan Norber here with us today.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, NYS Senate Finance Committee]: Thank you. There will be other senators and assembly members who will come and go during the day, and we will try to make sure to introduce everyone when we see them come in because they also have to go to other committee meetings, etcetera. So just one change in your agenda if you picked one up at the back. We are actually having New York Department of Labor Commissioner Roberta Reardon be her own panel for ten minutes. And then the next two government witnesses, the Department of Civil Services Commissioner and the Governor's Office of Employee Relations Director. They will be panel two after we complete the Commissioner of Labor. So I'm now going to hand it over to you for your ten minutes of testimony.

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: Found the sweet spots. Thank you. Good morning. I am New York State Labor Commissioner Roberta Reardon. I'd like to begin by thanking chairs Krueger and Pretlow and distinguished members of these committees for the opportunity to discuss governor Kathy Hochul's fiscal year twenty twenty seven executive budget and talk about the important work that we are doing at the Department of Labor. As labor commissioner and a member of of the governor's cabinet, my focus is clear, ensuring that New York remains a safe, affordable place to live, work, and raise a family. I know that every member of this body shares our commitment to supporting New York's workforce and business communities. And I'm so grateful for the respectful and collaborative partnership that we have built together. From Staten Island to Messina, from Granville to Buffalo, on the road and in the office, online and in person, everything we do at the Department of Labor connects back to our core mission, supporting businesses, protecting workers, and helping New Yorkers find careers they love. New York is a large state, home to residents as diverse as the communities in which they live. With governor Hochul's leadership and the support of our legislative partners, including our esteemed labor chairs, senator Ramos and assembly member Bronson, our department is working tirelessly to support the needs of the modern workforce and meet New Yorkers where they are. I'm excited to say that this year, the department will launch the next generation of our unemployment services system. This new system will make it much easier for individuals to access the support they need and will also significantly streamline the process for businesses. The platform will be accessible by smartphone, reduce payment delays, and provide real time claim status updates. It's built to address the challenges and needs of our current moment while remaining flexible enough to evolve alongside our changing world of work. Excuse me. I thank our partners in the legislature for working with us to make it happen. Our department is committed to improving our customer service and this will represent a major milestone. Another milestone, paying off the federal unemployment insurance trust phone loan. This key decision last year allowed us to raise the maximum unemployment insurance benefit and cut costs for businesses statewide. I wanna thank our partners in organized labor as well as the legislature, including speaker Hasty and majority leader, Steven Cousins, for working with governor Hochul to make this bold move possible. The impact is real. More than half of New Yorkers receiving unemployment insurance benefits have seen their weekly benefits go up. That is more money in their pockets when they need it the most. And at the same time, businesses are saving an average of $100 per employee this year and $250 per employee next year, and that is a true win win. Paychecks across the state are also growing once again. On January 1, New Yorkers earning minimum wage received a bump in their pay for 50¢ an hour. That's the third straight year of minimum wage increases. And starting next year, the minimum wage will be indexed to inflation. This is another example of very successful partnership between governor Hochul, the legislature, and the labor community. January also marked one year since New York became the first state in the nation to mandate paid prenatal leave for pregnant workers. Just last year, the the new law provided up to two point seven million hours of leave for approximately 138,000 workers across the state. As the first mom governor of New York, governor Hochul understands firsthand the difficulty of balancing family and work. Like so many parents, she struggled to find affordable child care when she was first starting her family. Governor Hogle's proposed budget includes unprecedented investments to make affordable universal child care for children under five a reality for families across New York State. As co chair of the New York State Child Care Availability Task Force, I know that child care is a necessity and not a luxury. Parents cannot work if they cannot find child care, period. We have a responsibility to ensure all parents can participate in the workforce to their fullest capacity and desire because when that happens, we all benefit. The governor also knows that truly supporting working families means ensuring safe and fair conditions on the job. Protecting workers used to mean showing up on the job site in a hard hat. But the world of work has evolved, and so have our department's efforts to keep workers safe. We now protect New Yorkers across the modern workforce using the latest technology, tools, and regulations. As part of this effort, governor Hochul proclaimed June 2025 as worker safety month. This helped spotlight three new laws, the Retail Worker Safety Act, the Warehouse Worker Injury Reduction Program, and the Fashion Workers Act. These laws address the real and evolving risks in each of these industries. To date, more than 11,000 New Yorkers have taken the department's free retail worker violence prevention training program available on our website at no cost. This past year, we also celebrated the fiftieth anniversary of our on-site consultation program. Over the last fifty years, the on-site consultation program has saved New York businesses an estimated $500,000,000 and prevented an estimated 20,000 workplace incidents. That's 20,000 New Yorkers who made it home safely to their loved ones, thanks to the dedicated efforts of our staff and our business partners. Our department is also committed to protecting New York financially. New Yorkers work hard for their paychecks, and we wanna make sure that that money ends up where it belongs, in the pockets of the people who earned it. Last year's budget expanded our ability to hold businesses engaging in wage theft accountable. What's the impact? In 2025, we recovered and returned more than $35,000,000 in lost wages and collected $2,200,000 in penalties. And with our wage theft investigation dashboard, all New Yorkers have the most transparent access ever into our fight to protect workers' paychecks. In fact, our website serves as a comprehensive resource hub for all New Yorkers on a plethora of subjects. Data portals, dashboards, training materials, FAQs, and so much more are all available twenty four seven. I'm excited to share that this year, the department will launch our own registered apprenticeship program in the worker protection division. It's the perfect example of our multi pronged mission in action, protecting workers and connecting New Yorkers with great career opportunities. Registered apprenticeships are one of my favorite workforce development models. And together with our partners in the business and labor communities, we are expanding this effective form of higher education into high demand sectors, making these earn while you learn pathways more accessible than ever. And to connect young New Yorkers with career opportunities, our department is hard at work implementing the legislation you passed last year to bring working papers into the digital age. We are creating a one stop online portal to simplify the process for young workers, parents, guardians, schools, and businesses. Looking ahead, I know that you and your constituents have high expectations for us. You have listened to us and filled our toolbox with smart regulations and strengthened our ability to fight on behalf of all New Yorkers. Your support has truly made our work better, and I thank you for it. Under governor Hochul's leadership, New York State continues to set a national standard, empowering and protecting workers, supporting businesses, and creating pathways to the careers of tomorrow. With your continued support and critical resources outlined in the governor's budget proposal, I am confident the department is strongly positioned to meet the challenges and seize the opportunities of our modern world of work. And now I very respectfully welcome your questions.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, NYS Senate Finance Committee]: First questioner will be Senator Ramos, chair of labor.

[Senator Jessica Ramos, Chair, NYS Senate Labor Committee]: SEN. Good morning, everybody.

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: SEN. Good morning. Thanks

[Senator Jessica Ramos, Chair, NYS Senate Labor Committee]: for being here, commissioner. Succinct responses are appreciated so that we can get as much in as possible. I want to begin by asking you about unemployment insurance. Now, after the Department of Labor took very important enforcement action, we know that Uber was required to make substantial contributions to the unemployment insurance fund. And I'm wondering whether other gig companies are now contributing to the same UI fund at the same levels. And if not, what enforcement is the DOL taking to ensure that all of these companies are paying fairly and on time?

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: So we are very proud of bringing Uber into the UI fold. And to my best of my knowledge, they are fully compliant with, the arrangements of UI, and we're very proud of that. I would have to get some detailed information for you on employers because I'm not sure, you know, which employers you're talking about.

[Senator Jessica Ramos, Chair, NYS Senate Labor Committee]: All of the others. I'm asking about all of the other gig companies. This is very loud. I'm loud as it is.

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: Background a little bit.

[Senator Jessica Ramos, Chair, NYS Senate Labor Committee]: Yeah. I'm I'm asking about the companies that are not Uber.

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: So upstairs.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, NYS Senate Finance Committee]: If you're listening, turn the microphone down a little bit. Thank you.

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: Ah, thank you. Again, I would have to look at individual companies to make sure that we make sure that everybody who has employees is paying into this fund appropriately.

[Senator Jessica Ramos, Chair, NYS Senate Labor Committee]: Okay, thank you. I definitely will follow-up with that. I think I probably speak for all, if not most of my colleagues. We have a lot of trouble when we do constituent services in helping our constituents reach an actual human being at the Department of Labor. In fact, a lot of the complaints I receive is that they wait for days at a time. They wait on hold for several hours. And it feels like a giant waste of time for benefits that are owed to them. So I'm wondering, when the automated call function isn't addressing individual concerns, when does the call get referred to an actual human? And what other protocols do you guys have in place to ensure that our constituents can reach the DOL effectively?

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: So let me start by acknowledging that this is an incredible pain point. And as I've spoken to many of you in person about this, it's a really big pain point for me as well. It is very difficult that we have such a huge volume of calls that come in and we don't have the resources to answer them in a timely fashion. We are the best news is that the upgrade of the UI system will go live this year And we are fully confident that when that system goes live, it will have a very direct impact on the phone issue. One of the main reasons we did a deep dive into what's causing the problem because it's not that we don't answer our phones. We have very skilled workers who, you know, work long hours answering those phones. The problem is we can't get to all of them. So what's driving the volume? Because it's three times higher than it was five years ago at the same level of unemployment. So something has shifted. One of the things that we know is that this system, was built in the mid '70s, admittedly very antique and about to be replaced, has minimal ability to be effective in this modern world. You can file an incomplete claim form on unemployment and move your claim into status to be considered. The computer system cannot actually deal with an incomplete claim form. That requires you to talk to a human being. That is the main driver of the call volume. So we have been attacking that on as many fronts as we can until the new system goes live this year.

[Senator Jessica Ramos, Chair, NYS Senate Labor Committee]: In the meantime, wait on hold for two hours?

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: We are I'm very aware of this. We are doing everything we possibly can to address it. I you know, our we are able to make timeliness payments are pretty high, so it's not like people are not getting their benefits. But I know if I used to be on unemployment as an actor. I'm very aware of how this system works. And if I can't get through, that's all I care about. It's extremely frustrating. It is be very very

[Senator Jessica Ramos, Chair, NYS Senate Labor Committee]: frustrating. Thank you, Commissioner. I want to move on to another topic. Can you give us any updates on the new prevailing wage contractor registry and how the public subsidy board has been operating?

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: So the public subsidy board has been meeting quarterly as they are ordered to by law. And the prevailing wage what was the first part of the question? I'm sorry.

[Senator Jessica Ramos, Chair, NYS Senate Labor Committee]: The first part of the question was about the prevailing wage contractor registry?

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: The contractor registry is up and running. We're very, very happy to say that that is being complied with. That covers anybody who works in the state, even if you're out of state. And they are fulfilling their obligation to register with the state of New York, and that gives us a tremendous amount of information in a very timely manner. One of the biggest problems with all of our areas of expertise is it used to be all paper based, which means you're very slow in responding to anything. Getting it up online and making it available publicly takes a lot of the time factor out and also makes that that material available to the public. So people are registering. We're using it. There's no problem.

[Senator Jessica Ramos, Chair, NYS Senate Labor Committee]: Okay. Can I ask about the office of Just Energy Transition? I know it's now up and running for the past few years. Can you share how the funds have been used to date?

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: So we are we have done we we people apply for grants. So we we distributed grants last year for training programs. These are training programs in green energy. A lot of it is dedicated to EV cars, EV stations, weatherization, you know, that kind of work. We have a specific fund that is dedicated. It's gonna go out again this year to have wraparound services because a lot of times people come into these training programs but they drop out because they have housing insecurity, no childcare, food insufficiency, and the wraparound services keep them in the program so that they can successfully complete the program and go to work. And that's a really important part of what we're using this money for. So it's training and support. And we are continuing to do it this year. We're looking

[Senator Jessica Ramos, Chair, NYS Senate Labor Committee]: -What's the breakdown like between training and support?

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: -Uh, this year, the training programs, I think

[Senator Jessica Ramos, Chair, NYS Senate Labor Committee]: -And where have those training programs taken place?

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: You apply for You know, an individual training program applies for the money because we don't do any training. And we, you know, we give them the money and they do the training. I was just recently out in Suffolk County and visited two training programs. One was United Way of Suffolk County and the other was Suffolk County Community College. And they were both doing training in the green space and it was really exciting. The I think it was the United Way had built a pressurized house in their training center because housing and buildings is one of the largest emitters in the climate picture. So the pressurized house helps train people to figure out how they retrofit and weatherize homes. I talked to three graduates. They were all amazing. They were very well trained, very excited. They all want to start their own businesses, which is really, really wonderful. But they get terrific training. That's what the money's going towards, to give people the training they need to compete in this new area.

[Senator Jessica Ramos, Chair, NYS Senate Labor Committee]: Thank you, commissioner. I wanna start the conversation as I end my first part on wage theft. I saw in the budget I think we all saw in the budget that $5,000,000 is being allocated for rural district attorneys to conduct criminal wage theft investigations. That's typically handled by the Department of Labor. How are you thinking about this split or this workaround, what the DOL does? And is the attention to shift enforcement authority, and what safeguards can ensure that legitimate cases are going to be pursued? J. A couple of years ago, a law was passed making wage theft a crime. Our authority is civil law enforcement. When the DAs pick it up, it's criminal law enforcement. So they can handle it at a higher level and they can have a stiffer penalty than we can. It's not that we're shifting our work particularly, but

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: it actually is focusing One way to get somebody's attention is tell them that you might go to jail. And and it is very effective. A couple of years ago or last year, we had this fund in New York City, the new the Manhattan DA used it very effectively and said thank you very much. It really helped us. The reason we suggested for rural communities is these communities often have very reduced budgets. And this is a budgetary issue. They don't have the bandwidth to to pursue these new cases. So this actually gives them the money to be able to bring in people and pursue these wage cases when they happen in these communities. Because when you steal wages, you're stealing from a hardworking person, and it happens, unfortunately, everywhere. Is the

[Senator Jessica Ramos, Chair, NYS Senate Labor Committee]: gonna onus be on the district attorney's offices to determine which, cases to pursue, which the legitimacy?

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: JULIE we work with them. I mean, sometimes we do some of the investigation and then hand it off to them so that they can pursue it in a criminal court. It's not just up to them. But it depends on it's a relationship.

[Senator Jessica Ramos, Chair, NYS Senate Labor Committee]: Okay. Thank you.

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: Thank you.

[Senator Jessica Ramos, Chair, NYS Senate Labor Committee]: We'll pick up in a little bit. Thank you.

[Assembly Member Gary Pretlow, Chair, Assembly Ways and Means Committee]: Assemblyman Bronson.

[Assembly Member Harry B. Bronson, Chair, Assembly Labor Committee]: Thank you. Thank you, commissioner. First of all, I want to thank you for being accessible and being a true partner to the legislature and also for our work in paying off the unemployment insurance debt, the assembly's proposal to pay off the debt so that we could then increase the maximum weekly benefit huge win for our workers and employers. And one of those situations when labor and management get together, we actually came up with a really good solution. I'm going to ask you three areas of questions. So if we can keep it to three minutes each, that would be great. The first is on the unemployment insurance. Last night, I briefed our majority conference on the labor budget. And universally, my colleagues were raising concerns about constituents and the number of constituents who call them on a daily basis about concerns with the unemployment insurance. I know you said that when you launch the new system, it will have a direct impact on what's happening. When will the new system be launched? And what can we do in the interim to address these constituent concerns?

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: Right. So the new system is going to go up later this year. I don't have an exact date because we are actually in the final phases of testing. And you never want to turn it on if it hasn't been fully tested. Right now, we're actually testing the security of the system. And you certainly don't want to skimp on that. So we will let you know. We'll have advance notice. We're going to have a large public campaign to announce what's happening when it goes live. And that is a long awaited and a very exciting development for all of us. What can we do in the meantime is it's a hard question. And we work very closely with all of your offices to take all of the problems that you get. And I've said this before, I am deeply grateful for the work that your staff does. We've worked very closely with all your staffs to give them as much training as possible so it's as easy as possible and just get us the name and we'll work it. But it is a problem. And we're working on an advanced interactive voice system that will expedite questions. We have bots on the system now that can answer a lot of questions. It really is training the public to use the devices that we have now, And then when the system goes live, there'll be something that's much more familiar. I really believe that the public will be relieved to see literally see the new system because it's so much more modern than, frankly, what we have now, which belongs in the Smithsonian. But it's a problem that we're trying to address every way we can.

[Assembly Member Harry B. Bronson, Chair, Assembly Labor Committee]: J. All right. Well, if we could make that a priority

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: J. Do.

[Assembly Member Harry B. Bronson, Chair, Assembly Labor Committee]: It would be greatly appreciated. Turning now to artificial intelligence. Reports indicate that roughly 55,000 layoffs in 2025 nationally were the result of AI. That's 5% of all layoffs. We know that you have included on your warn notice a check off if the layoffs were related to How has that has anyone checked that box off? And my understanding is they haven't. And then what else could we do? I mean, I carry a couple of bills. One would require regular reporting of employers to DOL on what's happening with AI. And another one would create a warrant situation where the worn requirements of the notice to localities, etcetera, the transition services and things of that nature, would kick in if it's AI related instead of a mass layoff situation. But anyway, how is the system working right now with that checkoff?

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: So you're right. Nobody has checked the box. But remember that the WARN system is set up for two real reasons. One is to give workers advance notice that they're about to be laid off and or payment if that advance notice is not given. And then it gives us the opportunity to work very closely with these workers so that they can be relocated in a new job. So that's the purpose of WARN. The penalty in the WARN notice now is for employers who don't comply with that law. It address any of the check boxes about why there are a number of them besides AI, why is this happening. It's always helpful to get more information. Frankly, I think that the checkbox probably would It's not the most comprehensive way to get the information because it's kind of flat. We do a tremendous amount of work behind the scenes. Our research policy folks are always at work on this question. And that's actually, I think, probably a better place to get the kind of detail that we need. Talking to employers is always helpful. But when you think about why somebody lays people off, AI may be part of it. It may be that they're not competitive anymore. They feel they have to move. They're making a widget that nobody wants. There's a lot of different reasons. And AI may be part of it. But I don't think anybody at this point is saying it's the only reason. And that's what happens when you check that box. So I think looking at ways to get more detailed information from employers and workers and scientists would probably be more helpful in the end.

[Assembly Member Harry B. Bronson, Chair, Assembly Labor Committee]: J. I look forward to moving those pieces of legislation. One would get that more detailed information. The other piece of legislation would kick in those transitional services in a different way than what's under the current WARN Act. So we'll work on that together. Wage theft huge problem in New York State. Estimates of wage theft over $1,000,000,000 a year. Your testimony indicated that you recovered $35,000,000 Clearly, we're not collecting what we need to collect, and we need to do more. Part of this can be your labor standards investigators. My understanding is in 2023, you had 129 labor standard investigators. The proposal in the governor's budget doesn't increase FTEs at all. But we're clearly not enforcing wage theft to the level that I think we need to, especially for low wage earners and service workers. What can we do to get those wage theft claims investigated and prosecuted more effectively?

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: So to be very candid, I never turned down help. But honestly, right now, worker protection is more staffed up than it's been in probably twenty years, which is really good news. And by the way, New York helps has helped us to bring more people into those positions. So we have really been able to hire more people. Hiring somebody in worker protection is not a really easy thing to do. We look for people who are culturally competent, may have other language access. It's a difficult job. It's not easy to be a labor investigator. So it's not like we can just go out and hire another 20 people because it's not easy. That said, one of the things we've looked at because we take this very seriously, and I know that there are lots of estimates and they vary wildly about how much wage theft is happening in the state. Too much. Way too much. I will acknowledge that upfront. One of the great things that you gave us last year was the law for liens and penalties. It has we've collected $10,000,000 more last year, and I think it was literally because of that law. And that law didn't really get into effect until mid year. So I'm expecting more recovery this year than the 10,000,000 over what we usually get last year. So it is very effective. I mean, let's face it, no employer wants to lose their property. And that is a very I asked for a stick, you gave me a stick. And we are using it. And the great thing is you don't actually have to use it all the time. It's the threat of using the stick. And we use it in very specific cases. People in that sector take notice. And once they're found guilty of wage theft, they're more likely to pay up than they were in the past. Because in the past, we just said, please. And it wasn't very effective.

[Assembly Member Harry B. Bronson, Chair, Assembly Labor Committee]: J. Certainly, the Wage Theft Prevention Act and the lean provisions are important tools. DAs can already prosecute wage theft. We don't need to give DAs $5,000,000 in rural areas and on a grant problem. I'd rather give you $5,000,000 in all seriousness so that you can do the investigation. You're already referring criminal matters to district attorneys. That can continue. They have their own budget. But clearly, we are not enforcing wage theft to the level we need to. And that should be in the purview of the Department of Labor and having more resources for you to hire more investigators to pursue that. And then refer to the criminal case if that's merited in that particular case. So I leave you with this, that I think it would be better for us to give more money into the Department of Labor so you can hire the workforce you need to pursue wage theft claims. And when it's necessary to refer to a district attorney for criminal prosecution, that's a whole different scenario. And you're already doing it. So that's going to be our proposal to you to help you out.

[Assembly Member Gary Pretlow, Chair, Assembly Ways and Means Committee]: Thank you. Thank you.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, NYS Senate Finance Committee]: May 2, so I think you're done. Double checking. Okay, thank you. Thank you very much, Assembly member. We've been joined by Senator Chris Ryan and Senator Matera. And our next questioner is Senator Butcher.

[Senator Butcher (new member; first name not stated)]: -Hello, Commissioner.

[Senator Robert Jackson, Chair, Senate Civil Service and Pensions Committee]: How are you?

[Assembly Member Stefani Zinerman]: -Good morning, Senator.

[Senator Butcher (new member; first name not stated)]: -So I'm new to Albany. One of the first things that I noticed working in Downtown Albany is that it feels like a ghost town Mhmm. During the day. And I asked some of my colleagues who represent the area about this, and they said that a big reason is because the state workforce is 50% work from home. Two days a week and then three days the next week, which works out to around 50%. What is the policy now? And do you think it's right for people to be working 50% of the time from home six years after the pandemic when the city of Albany is really desperate for them to come back?

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: So we have a policy at the DOL that it's four days of remote work possible in a pay period, which is two weeks. So it's not quite 50%. And in order to do that, of course, your work has to be compatible with remote work. There are people who cannot work remotely because they need to meet the public. You can't meet the public in your office at home. I understand, and we've had long conversations with our workers about the desire for remote work, and I get it. But we are very committed to having people work in our offices. We believe that at the Department of Labor, we work better when we're together. You know, we have really important teams that, you know, share information and you learn from the people that you are with. So we do have a pretty vigorous enforcement of our remote work policy. And you have to have your work schedule approved by your supervisor, all of that. But it's not an automatic remote. And again, it's only four days in a pay period.

[Senator Butcher (new member; first name not stated)]: I would just suggest talking to some of the representatives for the area because they're really concerned about it. We work one day a week remote, which seems to work well. I want to follow-up on the unemployment hotline. We hear from constituents the same level of frustration. Are you currently exploring software packages and other kinds of vendors that can bring technology to the fore to to really help address this? What are other states doing that we could be doing here?

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: So when the new system, when the upgrade goes live, you'll see a lot of that. We're gonna have different interactive voice systems. We'll have a lot of self help that you can do on the system easily. One of the biggest problems with our system is its age. It's old. And we've, I used to call them barnacles. We attached, you know, fixes to it over the years, but it never you can't upgrade the system. And, you know, we are we are almost there. And it

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, NYS Senate Finance Committee]: will I'm sorry. Have to cut you off. I'm sorry. Hopefully somebody else will ask that

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: question I'm sure they will. To you.

[Assembly Member Gary Pretlow, Chair, Assembly Ways and Means Committee]: Assembly Member Durso.

[Assembly Member Michael Durso]: Thank you, chair. Thank you, commissioner, for being here today. Appreciate it, as always. I wanted to just circle back to the wage theft issue, which obviously we've spoken about a couple of years in a row now here. And I appreciate the Department of Labor recovering all those stolen wages and bringing money back to the people. But my concern is it keeps happening, obviously. And we're not getting the wages back that we need. So when it comes to your labor investigators, is there a standard for them to be trained in the construction industry specifically? Because obviously, we see a lot of wage theft when it comes to people not paying prevailing wage, certified payrolls being an issue. Are the investigators specifically trained in the construction industry? Because obviously, you know that's very different than a lot of other industries.

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: That's a really good question. We actually try recruit people who have been in the construction industry when they retire from that industry to come work for us because of the knowledge that they have. And we have been very successful in some hires like that. And we do train our inspectors. Now remember, when you're a wage and hour inspector, you have to have a wide range of awareness of industries. There is a lot of construction industry wage and hour theft, so we're experts in that, but we also have to know about all the other industries as well. We do One of the things we've done recently is we've really upped all the training that we're doing so that our inspectors have better tools. They have, you know, tablets in the field. They don't have to go and write, you know, notes in Starbucks. They have so it expedites their work. And we're training them on new methods. We've had a lot of off campus training sessions with various groups to make sure that they are as as up to speed in all those areas as they can be. Part of the problem is, you know, the the techniques change in industries quickly. But to your point about construction work, we do look to hire people out of the construction industry, and we've been pretty successful at it. And they help their fellow inspectors look for the things that they know about.

[Assembly Member Michael Durso]: J. Okay. So with that being said, obviously, we had spoken specifically about Long Island in the past and the amount of investigators that we have in Long Island dealing with numerous construction jobs. And we've had both our DAs Donnelly and Nassau County and Great Tierney and Suffolk prosecuting those for wage theft. And they've done a very good job with it. The problem that I see is that those contractors are still contractors, right? They're getting arrested. They're actually being charged. Some of them are actually going to jail. And what they're doing with the contractor registry is they're coming out, right, or they're paying the fines, but then they're opening up under other businesses, right, under names. We actually had a contractor that closed his business down and opened up under an MWBD. And Department of Labor hasn't looked into that. And we've had numerous, whether it was Local sixty six or DAs reach out to the Department of Labor, and they're not getting any help with it. So my question is, what is the Department of Labor doing to making sure that those contractors and those unscrupulous contractors that are stealing taxpayer money are not being able to get back into the industry again?

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: So in the land of public work, you are debarred for five years from any public contract if you're found guilty of three strikes and you're out. And I happily I want to put a bell in my office and ring the bell every time I debar somebody because it's a big deal. And they are debarred personally. So that person is not allowed to open another company.

[Assembly Member Michael Durso]: Right, that individual.

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: Yes. However, you are correct. And this is not just the construction industry. This happens in a lot of different industries. They shut down because for a variety of reasons, and they open up under another name. That is a it's a difficult thing to track and follow and pursue. But we follow all the leads that we get, and we go after people. I know that people say we don't, but we do. And it is but it is a complicated process. People you have to prove that Roberta Reardon, who's debarred from working under public contracts, is now working under Walter Klein's construction company, my husband, and that I'm actually running this company. And you need to be able to prove it.

[Assembly Member Michael Durso]: And you are aware it has been happening,

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: right? Of course, it happens. It happens everywhere.

[Assembly Member Michael Durso]: So what can the Department of Labor do along with those investigators?

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: We continue to ask people to give us bring us your tips. We follow them up. We are as assiduous as we possibly can be. I'd love to ring that bell more times. And we do go after people who have fraudulently reopened a company. But it is a unfortunately, it's not fast. I think it's the speed with which people would like us to shut them down. If they're operating under a different corporate name, you have to follow the steps.

[Assembly Member Michael Durso]: Okay. Thank you, Commissioner. I appreciate it.

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: And I don't have a company.

[Assembly Member Michael Durso]: Understood. You debar yourself.

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: Understand. Yes, I did.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, NYS Senate Finance Committee]: That's good to know for the record. Thank you. Our next questioner is Senator Jackson. Actually, Senator Jackson is the chair

[Senator Robert Jackson, Chair, Senate Civil Service and Pensions Committee]: SCHULZ: of Civil Service and Pensions.

[Assembly Member Gary Pretlow, Chair, Assembly Ways and Means Committee]: You said three minutes.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, NYS Senate Finance Committee]: Oh, it's three minutes on this one. Sorry. You get ten minutes on the next panel, not on this panel. Sorry, three minutes now, Senator Jackson.

[Assembly Member Stefani Zinerman]: GREGORY DELL:

[Senator Robert Jackson, Chair, Senate Civil Service and Pensions Committee]: Well, Commissioner, good seeing you.

[Unidentified legislator/interjection]: Thank you Obviously, for

[Senator Robert Jackson, Chair, Senate Civil Service and Pensions Committee]: a major issue that employees want to know is what do you think about tip workers and incarcerated workers earning more as far as the salary?

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: JULIE have the subminimum wage in New York state, and we enforce that. If their tips don't reach them up to the minimum wage, they're supposed to be plussed up by their employers, and we enforce that law. If you'd like to change the law, we enforce it.

[Senator Robert Jackson, Chair, Senate Civil Service and Pensions Committee]: J. Have you suggested a change yourself?

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: J. That would not be for me to

[Senator Robert Jackson, Chair, Senate Civil Service and Pensions Committee]: do. J. Knowing that you're the commissioner for the Department of Labor and people are looking at you as a commissioner whether or not you would agree to increases for the minimum wage based on a one fair wage.

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: J. So as I've said many times, if you write the law and it's signed, I will happily enforce it.

[Senator Robert Jackson, Chair, Senate Civil Service and Pensions Committee]: Okay. So what is the current rate of pay right now for a tip worker?

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: I don't know it exactly. If you have a $17 minimum wage, there's a percentage. I don't know the percentage. I'd have to get back to you. But I can get it to you.

[Senator Robert Jackson, Chair, Senate Civil Service and Pensions Committee]: Sure. DAY: Okay. Thank you. I appreciate you.

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: Thank you.

[Assembly Member Gary Pretlow, Chair, Assembly Ways and Means Committee]: JAMES Assemblywoman,

[Assembly Member Stacey Pheffer Amato, Chair, Assembly Governmental Employees Committee]: JAMES Sorry, we're just gossiping a little bit. Good morning, commissioners. How are you?

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: I'm well, thank you.

[Assembly Member Stacey Pheffer Amato, Chair, Assembly Governmental Employees Committee]: Good to see you. I would just like to elaborate a little further about your upgrades and what you're talking about. And I'm going to say that they separated these panels. So I'm feeling like the rest of the band is not with you.

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: I feel lonely without my friends.

[Assembly Member Stacey Pheffer Amato, Chair, Assembly Governmental Employees Committee]: So I'm a little because when we talk about the jobs and hiring, for me, it's more on the civil service side. So where is that partnership? So I'd like you to talk about the investments that you've made with civil service to recruit more in the public sector, if you could just elaborate on that.

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: Thank you. New York helps. So hats off to Commissioner Hoagues, who is a wonderful colleague, and to the governor for this great program. I cannot say enough how impactful it has been for the New York State Department of Labor. We have been very happily growing our ranks through New York HELPS. I found out the other day that our retention rate for New York HELPS employees is higher than people who are employed through the regular process. I'm not quite sure why, but they're staying longer. And that is really great news. We are able to get wonderful, talented people and get them in the door and get them to work. So it has really been a huge benefit. And it actually has helped along with a couple of other programs. It's actually opened up the public awareness to state work because for a long time, people, for one of the reasons people didn't pursue work as a state worker, was they thought it was too hard to get in because of the civil service requirements. Now it's much easier to get in. They're turning around and talking to the people that they know and saying, here's a great I've got a great job. I've got these wonderful benefits. I have this wonderful mission, and here's how you can do it. And more people are coming in, which we need. You know, we, like every other employer in the state, have an aging workforce. And so we need younger people to come in and be the support for the future. New York Helps has been incredible. I just I'm so thankful for it. And, you know, Commissioner Hoagues is doing a great job with it. We love it.

[Assembly Member Stacey Pheffer Amato, Chair, Assembly Governmental Employees Committee]: So on that note, unfortunately, I don't want be the one who breaks it to you, but it's going to end. So I'm just saying but I'm saying, so where can we partner? Like in the locations, where can we help recruitment? Because the one part that you touched on was about educating the next workforce because we always assumed that mom, dad, uncle, aunt worked for the state. And now you acknowledge the fact that the younger generation does not know that. So where can we take that further in our centers of people calling? I'm sure you get a zillion calls that say, how do I get that job? Where do you see what we could work on that further when it helps ends to keep the recruitment going? Or what else could we add to that in the sense of how you're modernizing, too?

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: We do a lot, as you know. We do a tremendous amount of work on workforce development, developing pipelines for young people. And it's one of the things that we talk about in our career centers. We have teacher ambassadors now, teachers that come and work with us in the summer and they go back into their classrooms and connect with the businesses in their town. One of the things the teachers ambassadors learn with us is the state system, what it means to be an employee. Good.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, NYS Senate Finance Committee]: Thank you. Thank you. Excuse me.

[Speaker 14]: It's not

[Assembly Member Stefani Zinerman]: just me. No, it's

[Unidentified legislator/interjection]: not just you.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, NYS Senate Finance Committee]: Got it. Okay. Next up, we have Senator Fernandez. Good

[Senator Nathalia Fernandez]: morning, Commissioner.

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: Good morning.

[Senator Nathalia Fernandez]: This is really loud. The executive budget proposes expanding eligibility when it comes to workers' compensation by allowing any licensed acupuncturist, chiropractor, nurse practitioner, occupational therapist. These all sound like great things to me. But how do you believe this expansion will help workers? And how does the Department of Labor intend to make sure this eligibility is accessible?

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: So we don't actually handle workers' compensation. Everybody always thinks we do, but we don't.

[Senator Jessica Ramos, Chair, NYS Senate Labor Committee]: Okay, well then It's the workers' compensation.

[Senator Nathalia Fernandez]: Talking about expanding eligibility, are you aware of the current pushes to expand CHIPS funding?

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: CHIPS funding? CHIPS.

[Assembly Member Stefani Zinerman]: You mean

[Senator Nathalia Fernandez]: -It's to help infrastructure contracts be built, which essentially, if they can be contracted, it creates jobs. And I would believe that the Department of Labor does have a position in increasing job accessibility and eligibility. Is there any thought or position that you have on this?

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: So we are very open to expanding career opportunities to anybody who's interested. And we're very committed to helping people find a good career path with a family sustaining wage. And anything that comes in the door that will support that, we're in favor of.

[Senator Nathalia Fernandez]: Awesome. Okay. Well, then transitioning to helping people to career paths and opportunity, I chair the Committee of Alcoholism and Substance Use Disorder. And having a good, steady job is a strong tool in keeping people on the path to recovery. Is the Department of Labor doing anything to ensure that those opportunities are connected to people in recovery?

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: So we welcome anybody into our career center services. You don't have to be an unemployment insurance customer, actually. A can New Yorker. Our services are available to everybody. And those are issues that we don't that's not our job. We don't ask about it. We want to help you find a career path. And whatever we can do to help you get the training you need, make the connections you need, we are there. We don't judge. If you take you're looking for a job, we want to help you.

[Senator Nathalia Fernandez]: Support to making sure that recovery services and vocational services are well funded in this budget to make sure that people are able to get the support to find employment, to stay in employment, and that our employers are supportive of their journeys, too. So I did have a piece of legislation. It got passed both houses, the Recovery Ready Workforce Program. But we hope that we can get funding support to see the pilot take off. And with that, I'll yield my time. Thank you so much. Thank you.

[Assembly Member Gary Pretlow, Chair, Assembly Ways and Means Committee]: Thank you. We've been joined by Assembly members Otis, Simon, Steck, and Anderson. Our next individual is Assemblywoman Tapia. Who's not with us? Okay. Assemblyman Borros.

[Assembly Member Alex Bores]: Good morning, commissioner. Good to see you.

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: Thank you. Good to see you.

[Assembly Member Alex Bores]: I want to follow-up on Chair Bronson's question about the Warren Act and the box there. So that went into effect March 2025. Since then, how many of the Warren Act notices have had a label that AI contributed to layoffs?

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: None.

[Assembly Member Alex Bores]: And do you know roughly how many more notices have gone out in workers?

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: I have it here somewhere I can

[Assembly Member Matt Slater]: get Yeah, yeah. From

[Speaker 18]: what It's

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: in the thousands.

[Assembly Member Alex Bores]: Thousands of notices? Wow. Okay. Is that?

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: It's not unusual.

[Assembly Member Michael Durso]: No, no, no, no, Does

[Assembly Member Alex Bores]: it feel right that of the thousands, none of them had AI contributing to them?

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: Well, know, it's interesting. We talked about this earlier. I've talked a lot about it with my colleagues the agency. When somebody decides to lay people off, there are a lot of contributing factors. AI may be part of it, but may not be the main reason. And I think, at least this early in this new world of AI, I would imagine I've heard anecdotally that employers are perhaps a little gun shy to say that that's part of the reason, because it can feel inflammatory.

[Assembly Member Alex Bores]: It could, although I will say that independent research from Challenger Gray and Christmas found that in 2025 alone and these stats are nationwide, of course AI was responsible and was mentioned in fifty four thousand eight hundred and thirty six announced layoff plans. And we're also seeing that when companies say that they're using AI to make efficiencies and lead to layoffs, often their stock price bumps. And so there's some bit where maybe they're gun shy. There's some bit where maybe they actually are willing to point to it and benefit on the equity side.

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: But they may not want to tell me.

[Assembly Member Alex Bores]: Yeah. Yeah. Part of the justification or the reason for adding those in was, of course, we could surge resources. We could surge training to the places where this is happening. How do we respond in a time when companies are maybe turning around and not telling you what they're doing but are telling the markets that they are causing layoffs?

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: It's a good question, and I don't really have a great answer for that. I will say that one of the things that we are very focused on with in the warrant notice itself with the affected workers, but also with workers who come into the career center, We are really, really emphasizing to people, you need to be AI literate. I have talked to manufacturers who have said to me, I'm interviewing candidates at a certain level for a job. If the person is not AI literate, they go into a second pile. I am not as interested. And that because AI is an assistive technology, it can feel like a threat. In some cases, it can be. But you need to know how to use it. And it's very useful.

[Assembly Member Alex Bores]: It may be an assistive technology now, but certainly the companies building it are hoping to replace a lot of people as

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: well. But G. The more you know, the better you are.

[Assembly Member Alex Bores]: G. Agreed. Let's keep working on this. Thank you.

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: Thank you.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, NYS Senate Finance Committee]: Next up is Senator Rhodes.

[Senator Steve Rhoads]: SEN. Thank you, Madam Chair. Good morning, commissioners.

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: Thank you

[Senator Steve Rhoads]: so much for being here. I have the benefit of five minutes, so I'm a little luckier than some of my colleagues. But I did want to touch upon the topic of wage theft, as many of my colleagues have already mentioned. I believe you have 139 wage theft investigators?

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: I don't have the number in front of me. That might be true.

[Senator Steve Rhoads]: Are there any plans to increase the headcount? I know overall the headcount is remaining the same in this year's executive budget.

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: So yes, we are strategically looking to hire people. I mean, part of the question that's embedded in this question is all of us agencies have churn. People retire. They move to another job. So it's hard to say, are you increasing? Because we're always hiring people anyway to replace the people that are retiring. When we find a good candidate, we want to hire them.

[Senator Steve Rhoads]: J. At this, I understand part of it is turnover. But the overall headcount, is there a goal to increase the headcount?

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: J. Have already increased it. I mean, the worker protection unit itself is at the highest level of the headcount that it's been since probably 2007 or Okay. Something like that. JOSHUA

[Senator Steve Rhoads]: I know you indicated that there's some coordination between your office and the district attorneys who were also prosecuting criminally wage theft violations. Does the Department of Labor, after a criminal prosecution, then assign a civil penalty?

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: JULIE That's a good question. I don't know. I mean, let me find out.

[Senator Steve Rhoads]: Because the findings are already made in the criminal case, so it would be easy to follow-up and actually Let follow the legal penalty through the DOL. JAMES

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: me actually get you a real answer

[Assembly Member Khaleel M. Anderson]: Not instead

[Senator Steve Rhoads]: a problem. Let me hop onto the next topic. Obviously, had some conversations today about artificial intelligence and its increasing role in the workforce. Are there any programs within the Department of Labor to work with, for example, National Community College in my area, as well as some of even our local schools, Belmore Merrick Central High School District. And one of their closed schools turned the boys gymnasium into an electrical workshop.

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: Thank you.

[Senator Steve Rhoads]: Which is fantastic.

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: That's wonderful.

[Senator Steve Rhoads]: Are there any programs through the Department of Labor, working with the Department of Education, and working with some of our community colleges to build work in the trades, which is an AI proof industry.

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: Yes. CTE programming that's the lingo for it now, career and technical education is a real buzzword these days. Lots and lots of people have understood how important that education is. The BOCES system across the state is an incredible resource. And we have worked for years with the BOCES superintendents to make sure that they get the kind of attention they need, that they're providing the kind of education that the community is looking for. BOCES graduates go on to do apprenticeships in the trades. They own contracting companies. They're real stars. And we want to make sure that those programs are maintained at a rate that they need. But also, as I mentioned my teacher, our teacher ambassadors earlier, these are teachers who work with us for a month in the summer. They learn our systems, but they also learn all of the businesses in their community and what their requirements are. So when they go back into the school, they can talk to the young people about what those jobs are in their town and what the skills are that they're looking for. That is a direct connection. One of the things that teacher ambassadors do is they visit apprenticeship training programs in their communities. So they're learning firsthand what those programs are, and they can go back to their students and say, this might be a really great fit for you. So we are very involved. We work a lot with all of the community colleges. The community colleges have great programs, a lot of credentialing programs that are not necessarily a two year associate's program but will credential you to go out and be a welder, you know, that kind of thing. Welders are very high demand. And so we make sure that we know where the training programs are because one of the things we do is we recommend it to our customers. And we really believe that having that kind of training is a wonderful foundation for a great career.

[Senator Steve Rhoads]: JAMES And I'm running out of time here. Is there any follow-up with I know you mentioned apprenticeship programs. Is there any follow-up in the DOL to ensure that apprenticeship programs are actually graduating apprentices?

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: JAMES Oh, yes. Okay. JULIET We monitor them. And we track their graduations. And we have one program right now that we're working with because they're not graduating people. And they have been put on notice. And they have to bring their program up to snuff because it's not allowed. And you can get deregistered by us if you don't meet the requirements of the apprenticeship programs. And we do deregister programs when they don't follow through don't provide education, don't graduate people, don't get their hours in. It's a very regulated program.

[Senator Steve Rhoads]: Thank you, Commissioner.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, NYS Senate Finance Committee]: Thank you.

[Assembly Member Gary Pretlow, Chair, Assembly Ways and Means Committee]: Thank you. We've been joined by Assembly Member Giglio. And our next questioner will be Assemblyman DeStefano. Thank

[Assembly Member Joe DeStefano]: you, Chair Pre well, good morning.

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: Good morning.

[Assembly Member Joe DeStefano]: Here we are six years later after the pandemic. And I remember having this conversation with you six years ago about the unemployment insurance issues that our staffs have been suffering through. I'm glad to see that we are going to be having an upgrade to the system. My question is, though, why did it take so long?

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: J. Oh, believe me. If we could have done it faster, we would have. It is a very, very complex computer system. And it took oh, let's see. They wrote I can't remember how many miles of code because everything in the system had to get translated into the new code. Our system was coded in cobalt, which is from the mid-'70s. So everything we had had to be translated into the new system's language. That's just part of what we do. And we can't lose any information because it's all legal. So there was a tremendous amount of work to figure out. And each one thing that people don't realize, every single person's claim is individual. There's no template. So you come into the office and I come into the office, and we work side by side. But I've worked longer at the shop, or you're making more money than I am. So our claims will differ. And the complex machinery has to figure all of that out and then just give us the determination for each of our claims. It is a very complex system. And the entire country is watching this modernization. And we're very proud of it.

[Assembly Member Joe DeStefano]: Well, that's good news. My staff thanks you because they're still getting calls day and night regarding the issue.

[Senator Steve Rhoads]: My question is, after paid

[Assembly Member Joe DeStefano]: off the trust fund loan, how solvent is it at the moment?

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: JULIE We paid it off plus a cushion. The cushion was mandated by law so we could raise the benefits. It is solvent. I can't remember the exact figure. It's in the billions. And we watch it. We monitor it every month. Frankly, that's part of what we have to do. And I think it's in good shape. The increase in the benefit has not created a difficulty. It's J. Working way

[Assembly Member Joe DeStefano]: being said that was going be my next question. That being said, what would happen with the increased benefits if, for some reason, the state economically had a downturn? Where do you think we would be, being that the increased benefits are there now? And we do have a downturn in the economy. Right now, it seems to be doing Okay. But what happens in the future if we do have a downturn?

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: I don't think we've ever envisioned reducing benefits. Is that what you mean?

[Assembly Member Joe DeStefano]: No, I'm saying if the economy goes right now, we're solving. But what happens Oh, trust the best

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: Yes. There are mechanisms in there to make sure I mean, for instance, we can't increase to the next level of increased benefit until we have to make sure that there's x amount of money in the trust fund. That's written into the law that was passed in, I think, 2014. So there are steps that are taken before anything's done.

[Assembly Member Joe DeStefano]: Thank you, Commissioner. Thank you.

[Senator Sean M. Ryan]: Good morning, Commissioner.

[Assembly Member Jonathan G. Jacobson]: How are you?

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: I'm well. How are you?

[Senator Sean M. Ryan]: I am wonderful. Thank you. First, I want to go back to the apprenticeship programs but with the BOCES because we are doing great work. But I want to say thank you for your partnership. And I also want to say thank you for, I guess, the background information on the project labor agreements that have been canceled, which is more of a federal issue, which is really, really, really disturbing. And it's really unfortunate. Are you with the 81 project, but there's other ones? Is there additional projects where PLAs have been canceled that were the federal highway?

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: I don't know offhand. I can find out. Yeah, that was unhappy. Yeah,

[Senator Sean M. Ryan]: really But you talked about the apprenticeship programs. And we are doing I guess the question is going to be for funding. And are we doing enough? And what other resources do you need, or what else can we do to make sure that we're providing a good education? Like, hate we were I did a school district visit to one of my schools up in Northern Oswego County. And there are not enough seats for a welding class. They were all leaving. And we're going to need welders. We're going to need boilermakers. We're going to need all sorts of plumbers and steamfitters when we build that next nuclear reactor up in Oswego County and also the pipeline to pathways to apprenticeships for the other project that's going on in my district. So my question is, what can we do? What additional resources do you need? And how can we make that happen?

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: So registered apprenticeships are my favorite program in the Department of Labor and have been since I walked in the door. I just think it's an incredible opportunity for people to gain an education and a job. And we have worked to expand the registered apprenticeships beyond the trades. The trades taught us how to do it. And so we've learned from them. And now we have Tiffany's has a registered apprenticeship on gem setting. I don't get any samples. They have the Steinway pianos. They're built by hand all the way through registered apprenticeship. We have registered apprenticeships in advanced manufacturing, in health care, in child care, in data science. So it's a really wonderful way to make sure that people have access to training when they need a job because they don't take time off to learn. They work and learn. How do we expand them? You know, It's running really well. But help us spread the news. The problem with seats in I think it was probably a BOCES

[Senator Robert Jackson, Chair, Senate Civil Service and Pensions Committee]: It was.

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: They're having trouble finding teachers.

[Timothy R. Hogues, Commissioner, NYS Department of Civil Service]: Okay.

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: That's the issue. And it's usually retired people from the trades. We'll talk off online about that, but that's the issue. They can't find me.

[Senator Sean M. Ryan]: Let us know how we can help.

[Senator Butcher (new member; first name not stated)]: Yeah. Thank you.

[Assembly Member Gary Pretlow, Chair, Assembly Ways and Means Committee]: Thank you, Assemblywoman Yudelka Tapia.

[Assembly Member Yudelka Tapia]: Hi. Good morning.

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: Good morning.

[Assembly Member Yudelka Tapia]: I'm so sorry. I had to step out for a committee meeting.

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: Two hats.

[Assembly Member Yudelka Tapia]: Nice to see you, commissioner. But I have two questions. I want to do it fast so we can get to them. Can you speak to the responsiveness of wait time for the UI call center? Our office regularly receives calls from constituents who report that after they have called, they have never received a response. And I know that we have the opportunity as elected officials to do it ourselves, but many, many constituents don't know

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: that part of it.

[Assembly Member Yudelka Tapia]: I mean, what should what is that way that we're gonna

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: So this is you know, I say this all the time. It is a very difficult problem. And I used to be on unemployment as an actor. I know what that's like. The good news is when upgrade happens this year, a lot of that will diminish significantly. Part of the problem that we have is our current system allows a new customer to move ahead in the system without completely filling out the claim form. The system can't process the claim form. That means they have to talk to a person. The new system, like most systems that we now use online, won't let you advance until you fill out the thing fully. It has a whole list of the information that you need. It simplifies the process. It will move people through the system faster. The last thing we want people to have to do is talk to people. We want to give them an automated system where they can fill out their claim, get the questions answered, and get about go out and find a new job.

[Assembly Member Yudelka Tapia]: Yes. That would be the ideal.

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: That's the ideal.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, NYS Senate Finance Committee]: That's where we're headed.

[Assembly Member Yudelka Tapia]: That's the ideal part of it. Our community is very difficult. I have a second question. And it is, what is specific protections are in place to ensure that immigrant workers can report wage theft or workplace relation without fear of immigration, intimidation, and retaliation or enforcement? And how is the state ensuring those protections are clearly communicated to our constituents?

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: So I have said this for years before the current problem. We do not ask people's status when they come to us in worker protection. Anybody who works in the state of New York is covered by New York state law, period. And we accept those cases. We don't we we don't give any information out. Those cases are always private, including to the federal government. The only time we have to give any kind of information federally is if there's a judicial subpoena. We have to answer to the court. But otherwise, we do not hand out information, and your information is secure with us. We work with a lot of community groups. If they're not aware of it, we will send people out. But your information is safe with us. If you've been harmed in the state of New York, we're on your side.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, NYS Senate Finance Committee]: Thank you. Senator Mattera.

[Senator Mario R. Mattera]: Thank you, Madam Chair. And thank you, Commissioner Reardon. You know, how many years have you been doing this job as commissioner?

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: Ten.

[Senator Mario R. Mattera]: Ten years and we still have this major, major problem with wage theft. You know, somebody that came from the trades fighting the cause, taking care about the hardworking men and women of labor, in other words, that need a decent wage, decent health care, a decent pension, being the voice. And the Department of Labor is not doing what they're supposed to be doing, especially with these bogus apprenticeship programs that we talk about every year. You mentioned here today that everything is still wonderful. We're going after people and we're just barring them and we're dismantling their programs, which you're not doing. Merit Alliance, you gave a great proclamation. The governor signed it. Merit Alliance. All they do is have a program up in Syracuse, ABC, know, three fifty five's that I sat there and interviewed as a plumber business agent, forty four years as a member. And I have twenty three years as a business agent. I just retired but I'm still involved because people still call me, in other words, that they're being exploited. And the Department of Labor is doing nothing about these bogus, and I mean bogus programs. We have this discussion. We walk past each other. We don't even look at each other. You know that, commissioner. And there's a reason for it. Do your job. Do your job. You keep on saying that you are? No. These programs need to be dismantled, and they're not. They're exploiting workers. They're making the students that the students go and sign the blue book when they're sitting at a diner or a restaurant. I interviewed. We gotta go to the district attorney's office. No. The district attorney's office is great that we have that. That is temporary. It's not working. So please, in front of all New Yorkers and the hardworking men and women in the union trades, what are you doing about this? What are you doing about these bogus programs that you gave a merit alliance a great, great letter saying they're doing an amazing job?

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: Well, thank you for your comments. As you know, we pursue all the rules and regulations It's

[Senator Mario R. Mattera]: not comments. It's the truth.

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: Thank you for your comments. The truth. Okay.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, NYS Senate Finance Committee]: Please let the commissioner

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: Okay. Go ahead. Thank you. We are enforcing all of the rules and regulations that are in our purview. And if you disagree with us, that's your disagreement.

[Senator Mario R. Mattera]: You know what? Good ten years. No, you're not. All right. So you know what? So we understand that you're not doing anything. So what is the unemployment rate today, Commissioner? What is it again? Because we had this conversation last year. Because now we have a situation with AI coming in, and it's going to be all right. What is the unemployment rate right now this year?

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: I think it's 4.5.

[Senator Mario R. Mattera]: It's 4.6. And what does that equate to? How people on the unemployment insurance?

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: J. I don't know.

[Senator Mario R. Mattera]: D. Okay, 457,800 unemployment Thank you

[Assembly Member Gary Pretlow, Chair, Assembly Ways and Means Committee]: very much. Assemblyman Anderson.

[Assembly Member Khaleel M. Anderson]: All right. Tough act to follow.

[Senator Mario R. Mattera]: Yes, it is.

[Assembly Member Khaleel M. Anderson]: Commissioner. And it certainly is an act. So commissioner, let me first say thank you to your team. Kendall Spiller and Molly Schrobb are terrific.

[Senator Tom O'Mara]: Thank

[Senator George M. Borrello]: you. And have

[Assembly Member Khaleel M. Anderson]: helped me help a lot of constituents navigate unemployment cases. I have two such questions for you. One is a data driven question. I'm just wondering, first off, do you know specifically the black unemployment rate in the state of New York?

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: It's too high. I can find it for you, but it's higher than the average,

[Senator Tom O'Mara]: for sure. J.

[Assembly Member Khaleel M. Anderson]: Higher than the average. Yeah. And then my follow-up question to that is, I know that the career centers come underneath your leadership, but what is your relationship with the Workforce One centers?

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: The Workforce One Centers in New York City, we co locate. But that's a New York City arm of workforce development. So by federal law, I think we co locate everywhere that we are. And in New York City, it's with Workforce One. We share premises. We share

[Speaker 18]: customers. Right.

[Assembly Member Khaleel M. Anderson]: And so to that end, I'm wondering if you can gauge or provide me some data to gauge the effectiveness of those Workforce One centers. Because after a while, when I first started in the assembly, we would refer people there. After a while, we stopped because no one gets any jobs. There's no there's nothing that comes out of those centers. And it's quite frustrating.

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: I don't know. Let me look into it, but you can always send them to us. We're happy to work with them.

[Assembly Member Khaleel M. Anderson]: J. Thank you kindly. My second or final question really is dealing with tier six. Just want to get your general thoughts on capping the what are your general thoughts on capping contributions by Tier six employees at 3%, the same as Tier five employees so that they can stop paying so much into the system that won't pay them back? Like, what are your general thoughts on that?

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: So the pension system is actually not in my purview. I understand the issues that people have with it. But it's really not anything that I have any oversight on.

[Assembly Member Khaleel M. Anderson]: No, no, know that. I just wanted to get your general thoughts. You can't? Okay.

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: That's fine. Thanks.

[Assembly Member Khaleel M. Anderson]: Those are all my questions. Thank you, Commissioner.

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: Thank you very much.

[Assembly Member Khaleel M. Anderson]: And keep those two good folks on

[Assembly Member Gary Pretlow, Chair, Assembly Ways and Means Committee]: your team.

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: Oh, thank you for mentioning them. I really appreciate that.

[Assembly Member Alex Bores]: Thank you.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, NYS Senate Finance Committee]: Excuse me. Thank you. Our next up is Senator Rollison.

[Senator Rob Rolison]: Thank you, Madam Chair. Good to see you, Commissioner.

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: SEN. Thank you. Good to see you. SEN.

[Senator Rob Rolison]: I wanted to talk to you a little bit this morning and sort of pick your brain on child care, early child education. I know that the DOL has taken a leading role on elevating that industry and those careers to the status that they need. And when you think about what we're talking about when it comes access to childcare, affordability to childcare, early child education, I should I should better say, where do you see I know there are three counties who have been chosen by the governor for a pilot program, Duchess, Broome, Monroe. How do you see again, there's going be some time before that works its way up. But how do you see DOL elevating this statewide? And I know you've done a lot. I'm just curious, where are we today and how can the legislature help with that?

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: So the child care initiative is so crucial for working parents because if you can't find appropriate child care, you can't work. Somebody's going to have to stay home or take a part time job, take a lesser job. It's really very destructive. We work very hard to spread the message, to support the child care workers. The governor has made sure that there are programs to elevate those workers professionally. There are SUNY and CUNY credential programs, very low cost, that they can attend. Of course, they can go to SUNY Reconnect to get an associate's degree if that's an issue. But making sure that the child care workers themselves are supported. There are two, actually, registered apprenticeships for child care workers. Because we understand that it's not just child care. It's quality child care that we're trying to spread across the state. We don't actually have the ability to change the number of centers. That's somebody else. But we work very hard to support the workers and make sure that people know about the access. The money that's in the budget for the families to make it more affordable is really transformative. Because as you know, child care is so expensive but necessary. And that's why universal child care really is the goal. And together, we'll get there.

[Senator Rob Rolison]: Thank you, commissioner.

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: Thank you.

[Assembly Member Gary Pretlow, Chair, Assembly Ways and Means Committee]: Assemblymember Jacobson.

[Assembly Member Jonathan G. Jacobson]: Thank you. Thank you, commissioner. I want you to know that your monthly webinars with our legislative offices has been quite effective.

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: Oh, thank you.

[Assembly Member Jonathan G. Jacobson]: And your regional rep in the Hudson Valley, Rachel Adler,

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: is quite good. She's terrific.

[Assembly Member Jonathan G. Jacobson]: But the reason that we need the monthly webinars is, as my colleagues have said, is the problems with the phones. And it's such a priority because it goes into a black hole. We don't know what's going on. We tell people we'll wait a week. And then all of a sudden, it's three weeks and it's a month. My two topics I'd like to quickly on workforce development. It's great that we have the New York Opportunity Promise Scholarship for those going back to school, community college between 25 and 55. However, I have a bill, 8,843, and there's two great problems with the program. The first is it's only for associate degrees. It does not count certificates or certifications. And so many people going back there, the community college are investing in that. So I hope you would push for that. And the other is that it has it does not allow people that have a prior degree to take advantage of it. And the governor recognized that this was not good because when she wanted to now increase nurses more, she said, well, it's Okay if you have a prior degree. A lot of people get degrees at age 21 that are useless fifteen years later. So I would hope that you could maybe put that in the budget.

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: Well, I don't put anything in the budget like that because

[Assembly Member Jonathan G. Jacobson]: it's Well, not I have a lot of confidence in you. The other thing is concerning there does need to be accountability on the money going out for workforce development. And my other bill, 5,067, what we talk about there is these not for profits should have a annual report, how they're reaching out to the community, how many people have signed up, how many have followed through, who has jobs six months, twelve months, a year, two years later. Because then we know whether they're working or not and whether these not for profits have upgraded their teaching skills to meet jobs that maybe didn't exist six, seven years ago. Is there anything like that now?

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: There's a fair amount of reporting that's done when you get a grant through us. I don't know if it's as granular and as linear as you've described. But we can talk offline about what the kinds of reporting is required. Sometimes it's a WIOA grant from the federal government, And they have a lot of reporting structure. We all talk about this in workforce development. Getting ROI is tough.

[Assembly Member Jonathan G. Jacobson]: Well, you need to measure. Otherwise, we don't know whether it's going well. Thank you.

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: Thank you. Hello.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, NYS Senate Finance Committee]: Sweet spot. There we go. Okay. So I'm just curious. There's only $3,000,000 in for census preparation in the budget. And last time we did a census, I think there's a quote from you that our spending $60,000,000 wasn't enough to get done what we need to get done. And we know how important getting the census done correctly is for the state of New York. We lost congressional seats. We're expected to lose more congressional seats. That, no matter what your party or your politics, New York state loses huge amounts of federal money and power when we lose congressional seats compared to other parts of the country. So are we going to be able to do what we really need to do if we're only spending at the rate of $3,000,000 a year?

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: JULIE So I think the census is deeply important for a myriad of reasons, you know, the financial end, the representational end. I always tell I mean, lot of people don't realize the census counts people where they live. So college students, if they live nine months of the year, are counted in the state that they go to school. But they are critically important. And the census work is done by a lot of different agencies, not us. But it is very important. We are three years away from the really boots on the ground part of it. I think it's critically important for us. One of the conversations that we have to have actually is and we started it last time. I think we probably always do it for census, but my experience was last time. Working with communities who may feel uncomfortable being counted. And today, that probably includes more communities than it did ten years ago.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, NYS Senate Finance Committee]: Absolutely.

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: And we have to make every effort to make sure that we communicate with the men and women and children who live and work in this state that counting you is critical to all of our success. And that means we need to work collectively with not for profits, with community leaders, with the library association, because the libraries are very important in the census work. And all of the various people that come together to form the census collective. But that communication is so critical, because that's why we lose seats. And people are more and more cautious about opening themselves up to the government. We know now in worker protection that we have seen that workers of color who may documented and undocumented are more careful about coming to us because they're afraid of the government. And we don't want that to happen. So it's up to us as leaders in government to make sure that every community understands you count to us, and we need to count you. And that's going to happen in 'twenty nine.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, NYS Senate Finance Committee]: Okay. So you've just made the perfect speech for why we have to put more money in this time around than last time around, because it is more important and it's much tougher. And because it's tougher, you need more start up time, because you have to expand what you were doing and reach out in even more creative ways and make sure that you've accomplished the other related goals, I think, for our state right now, which is to make everyone who's living and working in New York not feel afraid of government, not feel afraid of anyone in authority, and if they're coming to talk to them worrying that something bad is going to happen to them or their neighbors or their family members. So again, you make it a great commercial for us for why we actually have to start this sooner and put more money in. But do you get the sense that you're not alone in the 2nd Floor to have these attitudes about this?

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: I actually haven't had census conversations recently, so I don't know, candidly. And there will be a lot of different people who work on this project. It doesn't live in the Department of Labor, it'll be interesting to see how this gets situated.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, NYS Senate Finance Committee]: JULIE So I guess the good news about budget hearings is hello, everybody out there who works for the governor and who's probably on a computer somewhere listening. Please, please do be listening to how important this discussion is for the state of New York. And we can't drag it out to the end and then think we can do it fast and cheap because that's going to backfire just like it did last time or worse. So thank you for that. And again, anybody who wants to come talk to the Senate or the Assembly about this, I'm sure we'd be happy to have a sit down and tie it into discussions at the leader level so that we get these things done correctly. I'm going to pass it on to the assembly.

[Assembly Member Gary Pretlow, Chair, Assembly Ways and Means Committee]: J. And I'm going to pass it on to Assemblyman Matt Slater.

[Assembly Member Matt Slater]: J. Thank you, chairman, and good morning, commissioner. Great to see you again.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, NYS Senate Finance Committee]: J. Good

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: morning. Nice to see you.

[Assembly Member Matt Slater]: I just wanted to circle back, if I could, on enforcement. I know that several of my colleagues have discussed this already. I'm just curious how the budget, as proposed, does that provide you more resources, specifically for the Hudson Valley and obviously in my district, Westchester and Putnam, does that provide you more resources to expand your staff so that you have more support when it comes to enforcement issues that we have discussed here today, whether that be prevailing wage or wage theft? If you can speak to that, please.

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: So, you know, as I've said, we are more staffed up than we've ever been, which is really good news. New York Helps has helped us bring in people. It's interesting hiring people for the wage and hour inspector jobs because they are very specific jobs. It's not like you can just hire somebody off the street. But, you know, we're always in a hiring mode because people are retiring. So, yes, there's always a need to bring people in. And we are more staffed up than we've ever been.

[Assembly Member Matt Slater]: Do you feel that you have enough staff currently? Because, again, I met with my trades counsel in West Chester Putnam just last week, and this was the topic of conversation that they were very focused on.

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: As I always say, I never turn down help. But, you know, we have a really well trained group of people and we've actually we've done a lot of internal work to sharpen their skills and give them assistance that they didn't have before. We have drones. We have electronic. We have a lot of technology that they never had before, which really expedites. And by the way, a lot of the laws that you have passed, the contractor registry and the payroll issue, those things help us. It expedites our work because when we were working on paper, we were really slow.

[Assembly Member Matt Slater]: Thank you, Commissioner. And I don't mean to cut you off. I only have a minute left. I do want to pivot to workforce development. And I just wanted to circle back on a report from the comptroller's office a few years ago which cited 500 workforce programs across 22 agencies and authorities. And it also talked about how the state's central governance body hadn't met in several years. Has that rectified itself? Have they met, number one? Number two, has there been a push to consolidate those workforce development programs under one office rather than being scattered across 22 agencies? Because my concern is, if it's scattered and decentralized across 22 agencies, how are we ensuring that New Yorkers are actually accessing those programs, which are really important for us to make sure are available to them?

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: So I think you're referencing the SWIB, which is the State Workforce Investment Board. They are up and running, reconvened, reinvigorated. They're a great group of people, and they're very hard at work. I will say there's been a lot of conversation about how to make workforce development more productive overall. But remember that when you're talking about a workforce development program for a person with a disability, a severe disability, that may be different from another agency. And that's why the agencies have them.

[Assembly Member Matt Slater]: Understood. Thank you very much. Appreciate the clarity.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, NYS Senate Finance Committee]: Thank you. And Senator Ramos has a three minute catch up fast response.

[Senator Jessica Ramos, Chair, NYS Senate Labor Committee]: Thank you, Senator Krueger. Commissioner, as you might know, I've stood outside of the DOL office in Brooklyn with dozens of women who were made to work twenty four hour shifts as home care attendants, but were only paid for thirteen hours. It's some of the most outrageous wage theft that I've ever seen. Many of these employers are actually repeat offenders. So what is the DOL doing to stop them, and why are some of them allowed to continue contracting with the state?

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: So there is currently a lawsuit about that entire issue, so I'm not allowed to comment on any of it. And that's about as

[Assembly Member Yudelka Tapia]: much as

[Senator Jessica Ramos, Chair, NYS Senate Labor Committee]: I can can you answer hypothetically? I mean, if you saw a class action lawsuit of dozens of people working at one organization, at one company, and that group of people were only paid for half of the time they worked, what would the DOL do in that case?

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: In this case, I cannot comment on anything on the thirteen hour rule because it's in the courts.

[Senator Jessica Ramos, Chair, NYS Senate Labor Committee]: I'm not asking you about the thirteen hour rule anymore. I'm asking you then hypothetically, in that type of case, even if it was a different type of work, what would the DOL do in a case where people were only paid for half of the time that they worked? And should those employers be allowed to continue contracting with the state? Should our taxpayer dollars be subsidizing those types of that type of work and that type of wage theft?

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: I understand, and I'm not going to comment on that area.

[Senator Jessica Ramos, Chair, NYS Senate Labor Committee]: Well, I think it's disappointing to hear that at least you wouldn't say that any wage theft is wrong

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: Well, wage and theft that is wrong.

[Senator Jessica Ramos, Chair, NYS Senate Labor Committee]: The state should uphold a certain standard, given the fact that we have done so much on wage theft. You know, we have done our best, maybe not gone as far as I would like even, because I do carry the sweat bill to secure wages earned against theft. But I mean, there is a lot of outrage, and deservedly so. Many of these women are my constituents. And this is money, disposable income perhaps, that is missing from communities like mine. I mean, LaFrac City alone in my district is the epicenter of evictions in the entire state of New York, and some of those women live there. I would love to see the Department of Labor be much more outraged about the level of wage theft that happens. I know that you have been a great partner to us to the extent that you can legislatively, But enforcement is of utmost importance, and we need to take that much more seriously. Thank you. Thank you.

[Assembly Member Gary Pretlow, Chair, Assembly Ways and Means Committee]: Thank you, Senator. Assemblyman Simone?

[Assembly Member Tony Simone]: Hello, commissioner.

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: Hello.

[Assembly Member Tony Simone]: One of the most regular calls my office gets, as you expect, is unemployment claims. Often folks frustrated waiting for weeks, saying they can't get through on the telephone. Right now, my office hears from three times as many people compared to the same time period last year. Do you expect the implementation of this modernization plan, this new platform you know, I love a new platform to bring the percentage of timely payments to the federal benchmark of 87 from the reporting says it's currently 64% in New York State. And if the answer is no, what else does a DOL need to do to get the percentage to 87%?

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: So actually in December and January it was 83%. So obviously there's a cycle there. But yes, the short answer is yes, we expect the new platform to deliver people from this particular pain point. And it is a pain point. I don't deny that at all. It is an old system that frankly people don't trust because it doesn't feel reliable. It allows people to not fill out the complete claim form, which pushes them to have to call a person to complete their claim. It is not transparent. One of the biggest problems we heard, particularly during the pandemic, was there's no way to see what's the status of my claim. The new system, we call it the pizza tracker. You call the pizza shop and they've got the pizza tracker on their website. You know where it is. That same technology is going to be on the new platform. It'll be much more transparent. It'll be much more user friendly. We'll have much better voice activated systems.

[Senator Tom O'Mara]: That's great.

[Assembly Member Tony Simone]: I have a follow-up, too, just so The don't interrupt number of DOLL employees processing unemployment claims has decreased significantly over the past few years. And the call center is woefully unable to connect people to a live agent. As I often yell at my staff, get on that phone and get somebody on the phone live. Don't just text them. Don't just email them. Get a human being. The department recently informed our offices to expect even longer wait times. How does this budget address workers who need their unemployment to pay their bills and feed their families?

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: So the call center itself is 100% funded by the federal government, as is the UI system writ large. And over the last several years, the budget from the federal government has decreased rather significantly, and that impacts us directly because it affects how many people we can hire. It is you know, the budget problem is a federal problem. They actually released federal government released a report in 2024 nationally saying that they were woefully underfunded, it was probably the main reason for bad service in the UI area nationally was because they were not giving states enough money to run their programs.

[Assembly Member Gary Pretlow, Chair, Assembly Ways and Means Committee]: Thank you. Thank you. We've been joined by Assembly members Lucas and Zinerman. Our next question will be Assemblyman Policino.

[Senator Tom O'Mara]: Good morning, commissioner. I had look at the clock because you never know. Thank you for being here. I just real quickly just want to echo what a number of my colleagues said. The unemployment claims system has been a problem.

[Assembly Member Phil Palmesano (Assembly Minority Ranker)]: Everything you can do to make that more efficient and quicker, and anything we can do to help you, we'll do what we can to help you. So I just wanted to say that to get that on the record.

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: And thank you. We agree with you.

[Assembly Member Phil Palmesano (Assembly Minority Ranker)]: I know. I know. Thank you. I kind of wanted to touch on more of a specific area. The latest private sector employment update from your department shows that state job growth remains mostly driven by private education and health services, with a net year over year increase of one twenty two thousand one hundred and twenty two thousand five hundred jobs. Do you know how much of that growth is health services alone, by chance?

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: I don't, but I can get that for

[Assembly Member Phil Palmesano (Assembly Minority Ranker)]: Okay, that's fine. Yeah. But is health

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: It's growing. I mean

[Senator Steve Rhoads]: It's growing.

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: Nationally, the need for health workers has only grown. And if you think about it, we have an aging population who require more services.

[Assembly Member Phil Palmesano (Assembly Minority Ranker)]: I agree with that. I understand it. Do you have any worries that year after year, it seems like that growth in employment really seems to be more focused on health care and not other industries?

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: I don't know that I would call it a concern. I think it's an actual need.

[Assembly Member Phil Palmesano (Assembly Minority Ranker)]: Need. Yeah. What, I guess, from your perspective, do you think your department could do to advance drive growth in other fields, like particularly construction, manufacturing, and emerging industries? Is there more your department could do from that perspective?

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: So we are very supportive in our workforce development area to help people make smart choices. And we connect people to training programs. We have VR headsets at all of our career centers so you could experience what it's like to be a construction worker, what it's like to work in clean energy, what it's like to work in advanced manufacturing. That's actually very helpful because young people don't actually if you don't know anybody who does it, it's not a thing. You put on the VR headset and you actually have that experience. So we do a lot of that. And we also work with the schools with the teacher ambassadors so they can talk to young people in their terms about how great these jobs are. Because we're going to need more construction workers. We're going to need more advanced manufacturing workers in this state. And we want to grow them here. We don't want to import them.

[Assembly Member Phil Palmesano (Assembly Minority Ranker)]: J. I ask you, what can you do? What can we do as a legislative body to help you, whether it's through the budget, to help advance employment growth in some of these emergency technologies that we talked about, construction, manufacturing, emerging industries? What can we do? Tax relief, regulatory relief, workforce development training? What would be all those things?

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: All of the above? Things. You know, I think that, as I said earlier, make sure that the local BOCES are supported, that Often, they scramble for money. That is a great place for CTE training. I think the work that the governor is doing in the SUNY CUNY reconnect and the ability to go back to school if you're an adult, all of those programs are incredibly helpful. This is lifelong learning. Nobody is going to be able to have one degree post high school and live on that degree for the rest of your life. At some point, you're going to have to learn something new. And sometimes that means going back to school. I sit on the council of SUNY Empire, New York State's online adult education four year oh, it's actually a university now. It is a magnificent opportunity for working people to continue their education. While they work, they can take online classes and get qualified to do a new job or upgrade the work that they're doing. There's so many opportunities. We have free Coursera licenses in our career centers for the same thing. You can learn that skill online and advance yourself. So there are lots and lots of areas that probably we're not getting the word out enough about. So we'll work with you to do that.

[Assembly Member Phil Palmesano (Assembly Minority Ranker)]: I think that's a good point. And Professor Steck, my question really kind of developed from your answer because you mentioned the both season of training.

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: Oh, they're fabulous.

[Assembly Member Phil Palmesano (Assembly Minority Ranker)]: J. J. Yesterday, we had higher ed. And sometimes it seems like we're always preparing our high school students to be college ready, not career ready. And the demand we have for the trades, those skills can provide someone a job for their lifetime.

[Assembly Member Gary Pretlow, Chair, Assembly Ways and Means Committee]: And I

[Assembly Member Phil Palmesano (Assembly Minority Ranker)]: think we need to do there was a stigma with when I was in school. We need to promote that more and get to these younger people to let them know there's career opportunities for them, and they don't have to take out tens of thousands of dollars in debt. So if there's more you think maybe the labor department can do, maybe partnering with our unions on apprenticeship programs and things of that nature, and working with the BOCES, I'd love to see more of a collaboration on

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: We are there.

[Assembly Member Phil Palmesano (Assembly Minority Ranker)]: J. I think that would be great.

[Senator Butcher (new member; first name not stated)]: J. J. J. But thank

[Assembly Member Phil Palmesano (Assembly Minority Ranker)]: you for your time. I appreciate it.

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: J. Thank you.

[Assembly Member Gary Pretlow, Chair, Assembly Ways and Means Committee]: Thank you. Assemblymember's woman, Simon can use it.

[Assembly Member Jo Anne Simon]: Thank you. Good morning, Commissioner. How are you?

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: I'm good. Thirsty. Thirsty, but good. So

[Assembly Member Jo Anne Simon]: I have a couple of questions for you. I know that you mentioned to Member Bronson earlier, and you've stated a couple of times that you have more investigators than you've had before labor standards workers. How many people do you have currently now working in that capacity?

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: In the entire worker protection unit?

[Assembly Member Jo Anne Simon]: Well, I'm looking at investigators in particular. But in the entire unit, can tell me

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: I about it as have it in here. I can get it to you. It's more than we've had for a very long time.

[Assembly Member Jo Anne Simon]: Right. But you were in the hole for a long time too. That's my So in 2023, there were 129 labor standards investigators, which is, fewer than half of the investigators in the 1960s when you had two sixty.

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: Really?

[Assembly Member Jo Anne Simon]: Yes. So big hole that we need to fill. And, as you probably know, there are studies that showed between 1,000,000,000 and $3,000,000,000 a year of loss to wage theft of various kinds. My colleagues here on both sides of the aisle have talked about wage theft. It's a huge issue. And your testimony said that you collected $35,000,000 in wages for people who've been defrauded in penalties of $2,200,000 But you've previously testified that you didn't think that you'd ever be able to have enough resources to address all wage theft. Is that still the case?

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: It's a huge problem. And it, you know, as you know, it's varied. Wage theft comes in a lot of different outfits. It's sometimes it's straight, I'm just not paying you. You don't get your check. Sometimes you're chiseling on the amount. Sometimes you don't pay overtime. And sometimes it's actually complicated to figure out what that is. So, yes, it is and it that's a national issue. There's no state that holds their hands up and says, we've solved it. But we, you know, we are hard at work at it. We form you know, one of the things that we're doing lately is working a lot with employers to make sure that they understand their responsibilities and how to fulfill their responsibilities to their, to their workers. And the liens and penalties have gone a long way.

[Assembly Member Jo Anne Simon]: So let me just ask because it seems to me that your worker protection unit and your investigators deal with not just wage theft, right? But we enforce child labor, farm labor, laws against retaliation, the new warehouse worker injury, Retail Worker Safety Act. Those people are enforcing all of those laws. It's the same unit that is working on investigating.

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: Wage an hour is wage an hour. We have It's been speculating

[Assembly Member Jo Anne Simon]: a separate unit for wage an hour? Yeah. Okay. But everything else is done by the other labor standards investigators?

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: Generally, yeah. I mean, there's more I mean

[Assembly Member Jo Anne Simon]: Okay. Thank you very much for your Thank

[Assembly Member Gary Pretlow, Chair, Assembly Ways and Means Committee]: you, Assemblywoman Giglio.

[Assembly Member Jodi Giglio]: Good morning. How are

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: you? Good morning. Good.

[Assembly Member Jodi Giglio]: So as a proud member of Local one hundred thirty eight operating engineers, my question for you is, what are you doing about stopping the pay to play storefronts that call themselves training centers throughout the state? What can DOL do to ensure that apprentices are represented by at least 5% of the workforce on every government job throughout the state? That's my first question. Because we have out of state contractors that are coming in. They're getting letters from these so called apprentice training centers that are located maybe Upstate or somewhere else, everywhere else, Long Island. When Long Island has the trades, we have the schools, we have the training centers, but those apprentices are not landing on jobs because these out of state contractors are getting letters saying that they are part of an apprenticeship program from a storefront non training facility?

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: I would have to look into the issue of letters from fraudulent training centers. Well, I can tell you

[Assembly Member Jodi Giglio]: Empire is one of them, that a lot of these out of state contractors on Long Island are getting letters. They say they have training centers in Syracuse, but they just have a storefront. There's no training center. And we're not tracking those apprentices on the jobs to make sure that they are graduating, that they are getting

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: -Oh, no, that's not true. If they're a registered apprenticeship through the Department of Labor, they are monitored whether they belong to a union or not. Anybody who has a registered apprenticeship in this state complies to the same rules, that they are monitored by the ATRs, and are deregistered if they don't follow the rules.

[Assembly Member Jodi Giglio]: Thank you. I'm sorry to interrupt, but my time is limited. So if we have a job in Riverhead, say, the town that I live in, they can get a letter the contractor can get a letter from a storefront in Syracuse saying that they have apprentices and they have people ready to go on the job. But those people are not available on Long Island to go on those jobs. They may be upstate, but they're not there. So would the DOL consider basically regionalizing where these government jobs are going? So Long Island, the workforce of the apprenticeships are coming from Long Island. Buffalo, they're coming from training centers in Buffalo. Syracuse, they're coming from training centers in Syracuse. Because you can't get a letter from a training center in Syracuse saying, we have apprentices to go on your job in Montauk.

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: Well, I think that it's an interesting idea. Nobody has ever suggested that before. We do have, within the unionized, building trades, some of the locals are very large, so they cover, like, half the state. So a regional approach really wouldn't work.

[Assembly Member Jodi Giglio]: Yeah. But their training centers are very small. And there's only a few train apprentices that they're graduating every year. And then trying to find employment for them on Long Island is very difficult when you have a letter from a company, a storefront in Syracuse, saying, we have apprentices ready to go on the job. They're just not there.

[Assembly Member Gary Pretlow, Chair, Assembly Ways and Means Committee]: Thank you, Assemblywoman Zinerman.

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: Good morning. I'm good.

[Assembly Member Stefani Zinerman]: Oh, I'm always happy to have you here. Okay, what is Okay, my

[Speaker 18]: computer wants to talk to you

[Senator Steve Rhoads]: as well.

[Assembly Member Stefani Zinerman]: Well, good morning, and thank you so much for your testimony this morning. I also wanna start out by, thanking your team as well for just being great partners with the folks on the 56th Assembly District. As a I have three questions for you. I'm gonna look at my time. As a the sponsor of the community hiring law, which was which established the office of community hiring in New York City, and it was designed to connect residents of undeserved ZIP codes to career track employment. So my question for you today is, can you please describe how, the DOL is actively partnering with New York City office of community hiring to align our workforce programs, sharing of market data, and then to ensure that residents are being prepared for and placed in jobs that are being generated through public contracts. So that's my first question. Do you wanna answer right? Well, let me just get them all out

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: Yeah. Okay.

[Assembly Member Stefani Zinerman]: Answer. Okay. The second question I have is I'd like to know how you all are aligning its workforce your workforce development funding and training investments to intentionally create career pipelines for young people, particularly those who are interested in environmental resilience and infrastructure given our CPCL goals. And I think the last question that I have for you today is, I sit on people with disabilities as as as well. And can you talk a little bit about you may have already covered this, about how we are intentionally marketing jobs to New Yorkers that have disabilities, whether they be physical or developmental.

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: Seen or unseen.

[Assembly Member Stefani Zinerman]: Yes. Absolutely.

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: Yes. So let me work backwards. The disabilities issue, we work very closely with the disabilities community across the state. And, you know, the our our wonderful Kim Radley, who is the head of the disabilities office at Governor Hochul, she's an amazing, amazing person and a wonderful advocate. So we work very closely with her. We participate in the Dream Symposium. We always have a job fair, and it's very exciting because people can come and talk to people in person.

[Assembly Member Stefani Zinerman]: -So, wait, thirty four seconds left. That's good.

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: We'll -Yeah, follow-up so we're all over that. -Career pipelines, we do a lot of work in career pipelines in our career centers and our teacher ambassadors, as I've been saying, emphasize that we have a real emphasis on green jobs because of the Office of Just Energy Transition. Wonderful opportunities there. We can talk offline about how we can make that even better. And for the New York City hiring, I'm not as familiar with that New York City law, and I'll have to get back to you. But it's a really exciting idea.

[Assembly Member Stefani Zinerman]: It is, and we want to work together on that because

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: we always know, we always like like to be working with

[Assembly Member Stefani Zinerman]: Many opportunities. Thank you, Commissioner for you. Your testimony.

[Assembly Member Gary Pretlow, Chair, Assembly Ways and Means Committee]: Assemblywoman Lucas. How are we going next?

[Assembly Member Nikki Lucas]: Great day to everyone in the room. How are doing, Commissioner? I first want to just commend Kendall Spiller, Scott Gallup, Karines Reyes, and Cornelius Chiayuka for their great partnership Thank you. With 60th District, which is East New York, Brownsville, and Canarsie. I do want to have three quick questions if I have time. We're hearing increasing concerns when we're doing these direct hiring halls and career preps about so called ghost jobs and positions that are posted but not actively being filled, as well as vendors attending job fairs or direct hiring halls without any real intention of hiring? What oversight mechanisms does the department have in place to ensure that employers participating in state supported job fairs or direct hiring calls and workforce initiatives are offering legitimate active employment opportunities?

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: That's a great question. We vet the people that come to our that participate in our job fairs. We make sure that they don't have any labor violations, all that kind of stuff. And so I will make sure that that is also part of the vetting that we do. We do not, as a practice, follow-up with an employer to see if they actually hired somebody because that actually we wouldn't have the resources to do that. That would be overwhelming. That is something that we try to get back voluntarily, but there's you don't have to tell us who you hired. The idea of ghost jobs, we only like in our in our jobs bank, we only get those jobs from the employer themselves. They never come from a third party. So that is a trusted relationship as well. I I there are companies that continually hire so they always interview because they know they're going to need people. It becomes a problem for a person who's going into that job fair. If that job isn't open that day, they may not be considered that day, but they should go into the consider pile for when those jobs open because there are definitely a lot of companies that just have a regular churn. That's not a ghost job. That's just they're constantly hiring.

[Assembly Member Nikki Lucas]: Yeah. I'm not really referencing those particular folks because the transparency is typically there. But if we can have better oversight and really reassess who those partners should be moving forward.

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: JULIE Yeah, let's talk offline about who you

[Senator George M. Borrello]: JULIE I

[Assembly Member Nikki Lucas]: would love to do that. I represent a district that is 70% women. Data from a 2020 New York City safety training study conducted by the Center of Construction Research showed that women made up roughly 22% of participants in OSHA related trainings, indicating longstanding underrepresentation. At the same time, we are seeing a surge of women applying for OSHA thirty hour courses in the state,

[Assembly Member Harry B. Bronson, Chair, Assembly Labor Committee]: wage theft and the investigations. So what I need is for you to lay out how many people you currently have in your wage and hour division, how many folks are actual investigators, a breakdown of the investigations for what I'll call general wage theft versus prevailing wage issues, and then in addition, number of cases per year that you're handling. What is the caseload of those investigators? And then a breakdown of the $35,000,000 you collected last year, a breakdown of how much of that is the actual wages that weren't paid, liquidated damages, or other civil penalties so we have an idea of what you're collecting on those cases?

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: I think I can answer that part. Dollars 75,000,000 is actual wages, and we collected $2,200,000 in additional penalties.

[Assembly Member Harry B. Bronson, Chair, Assembly Labor Committee]: In additional penalties. Yes. Okay. And the number of cases would be good. And then lastly, the investigators, how many of them speak other languages in addition to English for folks who So are non that is a follow-up. And I really want to hone in on what I had mentioned earlier, the disparity of there are studies showing that it's over $1,000,000,000 of wage theft in New York state. And $35,000,000 is good, but it's only a drop in the bucket. So we have to do a lot more. And then for the remaining time, if you could just expand on the youth employment. We're digitizing that. Tell me, expand a little bit more than what you did in your original testimony of what's going on and where we're at on that.

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: J. You're talking about the digital working papers.

[Assembly Member Harry B. Bronson, Chair, Assembly Labor Committee]: J. Yes.

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: JULIET Really exciting. And anybody who's ever developed a technology like this understands it takes much more time than you want it to, because we're going to have to connect with over 4,000 school districts in order to make this viable. So we are in the early stages of well, not early, early ish stages of the design. We're working with the state ed folks, but it's going to live in the Department of Labor. And it will be it's how we want all of our business to be. It'll be an online portal, one portal for everybody. The young worker and his parent or guardian submits their information through the portal. All that information is available to the employer. They don't have to have the paper in the drawer anymore. It's all online, so there's none of that stuff going on. We get to do research, which we've never been able to do before.

[Assembly Member Harry B. Bronson, Chair, Assembly Labor Committee]: JAMES Great. Thank you so much, Commissioner.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, NYS Senate Finance Committee]: JULIE Thank you. Commissioner, we want to thank you very much for being with us today, for trying to answer our questions. I think there's quite a few for you to follow-up on, because no matter how much time we give you, we don't get through everything. So I want to thank you and your agency for continuing to try to do your best. And we'll hopefully have another better year.

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: Thank you. And I just want to say thank you for your partnership. I really, truly appreciate it because we can't do it by ourselves.

[Assembly Member Stefani Zinerman]: JULIE

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, NYS Senate Finance Committee]: Okay. Thank you. And I'm going to call up our next panel of Timothy Hoagues, the New York State Department of Civil Service Commissioner, and Michael Volfort, the New York State Governor's Office of Employee Relations Director. Okay. Go take a stretch. Okay.

[Assembly Member Stacey Pheffer Amato, Chair, Assembly Governmental Employees Committee]: Oh, they're not.

[Assembly Member Stefani Zinerman]: We have a look.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, NYS Senate Finance Committee]: It's the whole picture. It's not just you. Don't worry. Okay. All right. It's still morning, so good morning, gentlemen. Do you have a preference which order you want to go in? Okay. There you

[Assembly Member Stefani Zinerman]: go.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, NYS Senate Finance Committee]: Well, why don't we just go in the order it's printed then, all right, since you're each offering it to each other. So how about the Commissioner of Civil Service first? And you have each have ten minutes. And then when you've both testified, then we'll start our questions. Okay? Good. Green light works for you. Perfect.

[Timothy R. Hogues, Commissioner, NYS Department of Civil Service]: Good morning, Chairs Krueger, Pretlow, Jackson, Amato, Ramos, and Bronson, as well as distinguished members of your respective committees. I appreciate the opportunity to comment on governor Hochul's budget for fiscal year twenty twenty seven as it relates to the Department of Civil Service and to highlight all we are doing to build tomorrow's workforce today and to contribute to bolstering affordability in the Empire State. Under governor Hochul's leadership and with your support, we are keeping the momentum going to modernize a civil service system that has its roots dating back to the nineteenth century. In today's environment, it's truly a matter of affordability. Job seekers simply can't wait for months or years for a job that will put food on the table and provide for their families. Changing times demand that we too change, and we're doing just that. The shift began with the after effects of the global pandemic. State and local government agencies, particularly those involved in serving our most vulnerable populations, had difficulty recruiting and retaining employees. What followed was the implementation of the New York Hiring for Emergency Limited Placement program or New York Helps. The result today has been more than 52,000 appointments across both state and local government. So to put this into perspective, it's roughly the equivalent of the city of Troy. New York helps has been a game changer by removing barriers to entry and streamlining the hiring process for the state and local government workforce. Now, don't mean to babble on, but from New York to Babylon, we have found that New York helps has boasted state and local agencies' ability to hire workers from a broad and diverse applicant pool. Notably, this program has been a contributor to governor Hochul's laser focused mission to make New York a more affordable place where all families can thrive by providing a pathway to a stable middle class career. Furthermore, we deployed marketing campaigns to promote the many opportunities across New York state. Our messaging reached millions of New Yorkers with a focus on underserved communities. We also partnered with New York's first chief disability officer to deliver a campaign that highlighted opportunities for New Yorkers with disabilities. One of the benefits we continue to promote is NYSHA, which provides more than 1,200,000 members access to high quality services and providers. Through the Empire Plan, members who live throughout The United States and beyond have access to a robust network of providers across the country, international hospital coverage, and a comprehensive prescription drug plan. I'm also proud of the department's efforts to open new centers for careers in government in regions around the state to reach thousands of job seekers directly in their communities. Our CCG specialists are embedded in DOL career centers and serve as a liaison and resource for job seekers and community groups at the neighborhood level. It was our goal to meet people where they were and where they are, and that's just what we did. To date, our CCGs have connected with over 300,000 New Yorkers. Our engagement has made the pathway to a career in public service real to so many people. In addition, just last fall, the department updated qualifications for approximately 800 titles to allow for consideration of equivalent experience as an alternative to college degrees. By helping candidates from hitting their heads on the proverbial paper ceiling, we are joining a welcome trend among employers to recognize the value of their skills and their talents. To continue to assist state agencies and local governments in recruiting the best and brightest talent, the department has is excuse me. The department is leveraging the success of New York Helps to completely transform the civil service merit system. This transformation envisions a customer friendly, fully accessible, innovative method to examine for merit and fitness as written in the state constitution. It will help us recruit and retain a workforce that continues to deliver for New Yorkers while meeting the expectation of today's candidates in the competitive job market. To that end, we are making meaningful progress to implement a new jobs portal and applicant management system. Under this new system, most state and local candidates will take an online training and experience exam to evaluate their abilities for a specific job. A T and E is a proven testing method already being used for a broad range of some of our most high demand titles such as nurses and social workers. It will allow agencies to hire qualified diverse candidates without delays inherent to the traditional civil service process. The other component of our transformation is focused on retention. I am pleased to share that we are beginning to open new computer based testing centers this year to broaden convenience for existing state employees to take promotion exams. We are already holding exams at several of our regional centers. We are committed to ensuring that civil service merit system best meets the needs of all New Yorkers. We are communicating with our stakeholders to ensure transparency and obtain their feedback into our future state. We have been hitting the road to hear directly from our partners in the local civil service communities to solicit feedback and to discuss next steps. As I always say, my door is open. In conclusion, change is challenging, but transformation is necessary. This transformation and all of our efforts only occurs through the talents and dedication of the hardworking employees of team civil service. I thank them for their commitment to improving the lives of New Yorkers. Our work under governor Hochul's leadership contributes to the noble and basic philosophy that public servants should earn a solid, decent wage, which in itself helps lift up and support the middle class. The idea that and the services the public employees provide all help in making New York an affordable and safe place to live and raise a family. And I thank you for your continued support. I welcome any questions at this time.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, NYS Senate Finance Committee]: Thank you very much. And we're first going to call on Senator Jackson.

[Assembly Member Gary Pretlow, Chair, Assembly Ways and Means Committee]: You want to do the

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, NYS Senate Finance Committee]: Oh, there you are.

[Senator Robert Jackson, Chair, Senate Civil Service and Pensions Committee]: Sorry. Oh,

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, NYS Senate Finance Committee]: excuse me. I am so sorry. Hold on, Senator. We're going to have both gentlemen testify. JAMES Thank you, my colleague and friend. Okay. Now we have Michael Bulford, New York State Governor's Office of Employee Relations. Thank you.

[Michael Volforti, Director, NYS Governor’s Office of Employee Relations (OER)]: Thank you. Good morning, Chair Krueger, Chair Prentlow, other respected chairs and honorable members of the Assembly and Senate. My name is Michael Volforti and I'm the Director of the New York State Office of Employee Relations. Thank you for the opportunity to speak to you about governor Hochul's executive budget proposal for fiscal year twenty twenty seven as it relates to our agency and the state workforce. As we approach the end of this fiscal year and look forward to the next fiscal year, OER has commenced negotiations with several of our executive branch employee unions for successor agreements. We have already started bargaining with CSEA, PEPF, UUP, and NICE COPA. Governor Hochul's direction is clear, negotiate agreements that are fair to our employees, show respect for the critical work they do, and ensure the continuity of outstanding services for New Yorkers. While it would be inappropriate to speak in detail about ongoing negotiations, I can say that the tone at the outset has been good with all parties, and we have gotten into substantive discussions quickly. Last year, OER undertook or advanced several additional initiatives consistent with the governor's consistent focus on making life affordable for New York state government's hardworking employees and their families. In 2025, I reported that OER significantly increased the annual cap on tuition reimbursement programs available to our executive branch employees and multiple bargaining units. In many bargaining units, employees can now be reimbursed for up to $5,000 of qualifying tuition expenses in a calendar year with additional money available for certain employee groups such as registered nurses. I'm pleased to report that OER is partnered with the Office of State Comptroller to institute direct deposit for tuition reimbursement and other educational benefits. This speeds up the reimbursement process and makes it easier to ensure that any taxable benefits are subject to appropriate federal withholding as they are dispersed so that employees can avoid large end of year withholding amounts that occurred when employees were paid by check with no withholding. Direct deposit is another important step in making these benefits easier to use for employees, and we look forward to expanding its use in the coming year. Over the past year, we have worked extensively with the office of state controller and the division of budget to develop the voluntary payroll advance for new executive branch employees that was part of last year's budget. This implements the governor's direction that we mitigate the effect of the lag payroll and does so in a way that minimizes administrative costs and disruptions. We are finalizing the necessary arrangements with our union and agency partners to make this available for new employees hired with a start date on or after 07/01/2026. Consistent with the governor's state of the state message and our requested budget, our office will once again take the lead on providing additional diversity, equity, inclusion training for the state workforce to foster a work environment of inclusivity and continue to move forward New York as a employer of first choice. This year, in collaboration with the state's chief disability officer, OER will roll out video based training on workplace accessibility issues. As you all know, our office offers several pretax programs that allow eligible employees to use pretax dollars for various health care, dependent care, and transportation expenses. Last year, members of OER's employee benefits management unit undertook a campaign to increase employee awareness of these programs and encourage enrollment when employees had qualifying events. Relying on both social media and in person marketing and assistance with online enrollment at selected work locations, this team helped increase enrollments for healthcare spending accounts and dependent care advantage accounts by 1410% respectively, leading to over 28,000 enrollments in the various programs. We continue to make our pretax program even more attractive by allowing individuals to carry over the maximum amount of twenty twenty five funds into 2026 for health care spending and provided for a grace period for dependent care advantage account and adoption expenses, flexible spending accounts where employees can use their 2025 balance during the first two and a half months of 2026 to incur new expenses and utilize previously deducted funds. We've also been able to fund increased employer contributions for the dependent care advantage account for the fourth year in a row. These programs continue to be tools that allow employees to deal with affordability of healthcare, dependent care, and adoption expenses, and we will strive to expand participation in the coming year. OER also helps employees to manage their lives and finances after they retire. In the past year, OER hosted 24 online pre retirement seminars with 7,700 participants. The transition to online pre retirement seminars has led to an increase in the number of employees who can attend per seminar. OER's actions in the last year have also reflected the governor's leadership on issues related to mental health. We have modified our website to make it easier for employees to find information on their mental health benefits, worked closely with the carrier of the employee empire plan mental health program to address reported employee concerns over the availability of network providers, and taken steps to enhance critical incident response under the umbrella of the New York State Employee Assistance Program. Regarding our EAP program, last year, EAP responded to over 26,000 employee referral requests for resources related to mental health and other concerns. While my remarks today have been focused on my agency's efforts to negotiate collective bargain agreements and injure address employee concerns, I'd be remiss if I did not note the continuing impact of the correction officer strike of twenty twenty five. As required by the Taylor law, OER will issue strike notices to thousands of employees that we believe participated in the illegal strike. Those notices will set forth the alleged unauthorized absences and advise employees of their appeal rights. Additionally, OER is currently processing thousands of contract grievances filed by employees in connection with the various aspects of the employer's response to the illegal strike. Staff are working on those grievances as they proceed through the contractual dispute resolution process. In closing, governor under governor Hochul's leadership, we look forward in 2026 to strengthening labor management collaboration, negotiating equitable contracts, and providing programs that meet employee needs in areas such as affordability and mental health. Thank you.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, NYS Senate Finance Committee]: Thank you both very much. Okay, now we will start with Senator Jackson, the chair of what is your committee called? One second.

[Senator Robert Jackson, Chair, Senate Civil Service and Pensions Committee]: It's still morning.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, NYS Senate Finance Committee]: Civil almost Service Chair, yes.

[Senator Robert Jackson, Chair, Senate Civil Service and Pensions Committee]: Almost 12:00.

[Assembly Member Stefani Zinerman]: That's right.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, NYS Senate Finance Committee]: Still morning.

[Senator Robert Jackson, Chair, Senate Civil Service and Pensions Committee]: Okay. So let me thank you for being here and listening to the testimony and questions that have been asked by everyone here regarding labor. And first question is to Commissioner Ho. Can you tell me what, if anything, did the employees who were involved in the roundtable discussion that my office had this past year with three one in New York City, one in Albany, and the third one was in Buffalo. What type of message did they get? And did they learn something like a photographer, you refocus about what you're doing?

[Timothy R. Hogues, Commissioner, NYS Department of Civil Service]: J. Yeah. So first of all, thank you, Senator Jackson, for holding those roundtables and inviting us to be a part of that and participate and present. And also, you gave us a wonderful opportunity to listen to our partners at the local levels. And they express a lot of things. And so like I said, we thank you for that opportunity. One of the things that we heard loud and clear is that they wanted more access into the process. As a control agency, we could have we started full steam ahead and we were trying to make sure that we were meeting the timelines. But through the roundtables, we understood that we needed to slow down a little bit and have more conversation with our partners at the local level. I do want to reiterate, though, that there have been times in this process where we have communicated to our partners, both at the state and local levels, updating them on progress as it became available. But I think your forums gave an opportunity for direct feedback, questions, answers. And so we have continued that process. And so my team since then has completed, I believe, around six roundtable discussions across the state. And there are about five more left for us to do. And we are taking the information that the local civil service communities are providing us. One of the things that we heard loud and clear was that they wanted us to continue the HELPS program at the local level. Not everyone participates in the HELPS program at the local level, but the entities that do participate, they reported great success with that. So once again, I do want to thank you for that. And finally, the last piece I'll say, in the roundtable discussions that MSD, Municipal Services Division, has been doing, we've been hearing a lot about police and fire. And so we are taking that into advisement as we go through this transformation. And we're going to circle back with them because they've been providing a lot of feedback and input on some things that we might be able to do. Thank you for kick starting that.

[Senator Robert Jackson, Chair, Senate Civil Service and Pensions Committee]: And Director Folte, let me just raise this up. This is a direct to direct real colo now. They're unions of SEIU, Local three thirty eight, AFSCME, CSEA, DC thirty seven. And they're interested in increasing the amount of salary that the people at this level are having. And so they're having direct contact with constituencies and legislators. They had a breakfast this morning. Are you involved in negotiations of contracts for these workers and seeking the increase that they're looking at?

[Michael Volforti, Director, NYS Governor’s Office of Employee Relations (OER)]: I didn't catch the first union, but I think you maybe said SEIU?

[Senator Robert Jackson, Chair, Senate Civil Service and Pensions Committee]: SEIU, Local three thirty eight, AFSCME, CSEA, DC thirty seven, they all basically want an increase so that they can have a decent salary.

[Michael Volforti, Director, NYS Governor’s Office of Employee Relations (OER)]: J. So my authority is limited to executive branch employee agencies. So out of that group, CSEA represents thousands of state executive branch employees. DC thirty seven only represents a small cadre of employees that are in homes and community renewal. But my office is either currently involved with or will be involved with every state union that represents executive branch employees. And raises will obviously be on the table and be part of those discussions.

[Senator Robert Jackson, Chair, Senate Civil Service and Pensions Committee]: Well, seems to me that in looking at their document and I'm sure that your office has access to it. And if not, I'll be glad to give this to you so that you can see where they're coming from. Obviously, I would think that they're going to be communicating or they have communicated directly with your office since that's the office where negotiations and discussions take place.

[Michael Volforti, Director, NYS Governor’s Office of Employee Relations (OER)]: MR. Correct.

[Assembly Member Stefani Zinerman]: MR.

[Assembly Member Harry B. Bronson, Chair, Assembly Labor Committee]: So

[Senator Robert Jackson, Chair, Senate Civil Service and Pensions Committee]: commissioner, with respect to the number of people New York helps, how many people does New York helps really help?

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, NYS Senate Finance Committee]: G. B.

[Timothy R. Hogues, Commissioner, NYS Department of Civil Service]: So thank you for that. As I state in my testimony, New York helps has really been a game changer. It started on the heels of the pandemic when some of the direct care agencies at the state level said, hey, we just can't meet our minimum staffing levels given the current process that we have to go through. Since its inception across both state and local level, New York Helps has made over 52,000 appointments, 38,000 at the state level, and 14,000 across the local levels. And as you heard my colleague in the prior testimony portion, we're hearing that agencies are staffed up more than they have ever been in quite some time. And so we're excited about the program. And we're also excited about the transformation that we are going through.

[Senator Robert Jackson, Chair, Senate Civil Service and Pensions Committee]: J. Director, I've heard that the issue of that the management there's some management confidential employees that are a grade, but they are earning less than the employees that they supervise. What's the situation with that?

[Michael Volforti, Director, NYS Governor’s Office of Employee Relations (OER)]: I'm not familiar with any specific situation that I can think of as I sit here today. However, if your office wants to provide that information to me, I'm more than happy to look into it and investigate exactly what's occurring and any potential for resolving it.

[Senator Robert Jackson, Chair, Senate Civil Service and Pensions Committee]: What is then Director, is that what you want me to take back to these employees that I saw this morning asking for an increase of at least 44 that will go to them as employees and not just 2.6% the targeted inflation adjustment amount.

[Senator Steve Rhoads]: Well, I

[Michael Volforti, Director, NYS Governor’s Office of Employee Relations (OER)]: you can take back that OER is engaged for those that are executive branch employees with their unions or will be engaged with their unions, and they should communicate with their unions because that is our obligation that we must negotiate with the unions. I can't communicate directly with and negotiate with individual employees or even individual employee groups. We negotiate with the union. I'm sure that they're communicating those up the chain of command in their unions, and their unions are well aware of that. But to the extent they're not, they should definitely communicate up to the chain of command so that their negotiators are making those demands clear at the table.

[Senator Robert Jackson, Chair, Senate Civil Service and Pensions Committee]: So do you feel or believe that employees that are in a management confidential and they are overseeing, from a point of, all of the employees under their jurisdiction should be earning more money than the employees?

[Michael Volforti, Director, NYS Governor’s Office of Employee Relations (OER)]: J. I mean, generally speaking, if you are in a chain of command and a series, you are making more than the people you supervise. Like I said, I'm not familiar with situations where individuals aren't. But I think they explore us looking at them, and I'm happy to do so.

[Timothy R. Hogues, Commissioner, NYS Department of Civil Service]: J. And if I may jump in, Senator Jackson.

[Senator Robert Jackson, Chair, Senate Civil Service and Pensions Committee]: J. Please, Commissioner.

[Senator George M. Borrello]: J. J.

[Senator Robert Jackson, Chair, Senate Civil Service and Pensions Committee]: Go ahead.

[Timothy R. Hogues, Commissioner, NYS Department of Civil Service]: That is the work of classification and compensation. And so when Director Vaux Forte or the unions or someone makes us aware of that, then our classification and compensation division, they look into those things to make sure that they are corrected.

[Senator Robert Jackson, Chair, Senate Civil Service and Pensions Committee]: The Civil Service Commission looks at that?

[Timothy R. Hogues, Commissioner, NYS Department of Civil Service]: No. So the division of classification and compensation within the Department of Civil Service, we look at those types of issues. Sure.

[Senator Robert Jackson, Chair, Senate Civil Service and Pensions Committee]: Like I asked the commissioner earlier, I asked you, when you see a situation, should you not wait or go forward and recommend certain things, for example, so that the management confidential employee is rated at a salary that is appropriate for their position.

[Assembly Member Gary Pretlow, Chair, Assembly Ways and Means Committee]: J. Thank you, Senator. We've been joined by Assembly Member Colton and Assemblywoman Hooks just left us. Next, we'll hear from our chair, Assemblywoman.

[Assembly Member Stacey Pheffer Amato, Chair, Assembly Governmental Employees Committee]: Okay, we made it. Good afternoon. Commissioner, I'm going to jump reverse now because my colleague just talked about it. Let's talk about this study. A state, for the four years I've been chair, we've invested a lot of money. And I'm grateful for all the modernization because we've needed to dust this off and move forward. But part of affordability is a part of a study that you were working on that's going to look at our salaries versus a private sector. Where is that, and where is that coming out of that investment?

[Timothy R. Hogues, Commissioner, NYS Department of Civil Service]: J. So once again, thank you to this honorable body and the governor for providing us with those monies to be able to do that. And so one of the first things that I looked at when I became commissioner is the process I just spoke of with Senator Jackson as far as individuals or unions reaching out to classification and compensation saying, hey, there needs to be an adjustment in the pay. And so one of the things that the funding that was provided allowed us to do a total compensation study. And so we are virtually complete with that. The analysis portion is done. We are just buttoning up. Hopefully, that will be out soon. It will definitely be out this year. But we're working through that.

[Assembly Member Stacey Pheffer Amato, Chair, Assembly Governmental Employees Committee]: JULIE That's great to hear. I think we've been waiting for that. And I'm excited to be able to see that comparison, as I'm sure you are. And that definitely goes along affordability. Now, we talk about New York HELPS, which was an emergency program. And I agree with you on the local level to find some of the jobs, which means on a county basis for everyone else, to understand that it's really on the micro part of it. But in the bigger picture, knowing that it is proposed to end at the June and I'm happy to hear about all the streamlining and the work we're doing. But how are we going to end this program and take all that knowledge and streamline? And more specifically, in the training and experience part, where it doesn't affect the Constitution, which you said in your statement. But I'd like you to go further with that so we can understand where we're taking to a modern level, but not infringing on our constitution, and where that nasty word AI comes into play here, and all that that we're worrying about, right? Because this is all about fairness and what this modernization is going to do without taking away jobs, or is that going be on the agency level that they ensure the best candidates hired?

[Timothy R. Hogues, Commissioner, NYS Department of Civil Service]: J. Yeah. So thank you once again. And as I mentioned before, New York Helps has been a game changer. We've learned quite a bit from the program. It been very successful in bringing in a diverse group of individuals into both state and local government. But as stated, it has always been a temporary program to get us through. After we started with the direct care, additional agencies said, hey, we are having these struggles, too. And so we were able to utilize helps to no pun intended to help them staff up as well. And so we are taking the best parts of what we learned from New York Helps and applying it to our transformation. But some of the things that we've heard through New York Helps that has been a struggle is that it is labor intensive on the agency side and on the back office side of it. So we're taking that into consideration and making it more efficient. As I mentioned, our jobs portal and applicant management management system, that will help with the efficiency of that. But just this weekend, I was at a conference and I was speaking to a group of individuals. And some of them came up to me afterwards and said, hey, we've helps has been great, but we've applied and we haven't heard anything back at times. And so this new applicant management system and jobs portal will provide that instant feedback for individuals and make it easier for them to track where they are. And it will also streamline how they apply for jobs at the state and eventually the local level because they will be applying specifically for a certain position at a certain location and not into a broad spectrum of opportunities. And so we are really excited. And as I mentioned before, the T and E model, the training and experience model, has been used for years and years and years. And we use it for some of our most high demand jobs. And so it meets the criteria of our state constitution to make sure that it's merit and fitness based.

[Assembly Member Stacey Pheffer Amato, Chair, Assembly Governmental Employees Committee]: J. Great. I mean, I'm very excited to hear about the customer friendly, the dashboard type. We've spoken about that a lot in regard to, I'm a young person. I'm applying for a job, and I don't hear anything into the abyss. So I'm happy to hear that the system and, again, the budget has reflected what's going be coming out of your department. But with filling the vacancies, let's say, with York helps and all the entry level jobs or some of the difficult, are we tackling the difficult jobs that were hard to fill? Let's use your investigator example, where it's hard for a construction investigator. But at the same time, my concern is that we're not going to hit the level two. Where does this modernization hit the next level jobs for people to take? The tests that I've heard many times in my office concerns that you're not issuing tests for the next level. How is all that going to come on and explode and help that next level, again, of affordability in the state? Because I'm working here. I'm five years invested. I'm that tier six person. Woe is me. And how do I get that next level to get a higher salary to give more contributions? I'm being sarcastic, but it goes right along what my colleague was talking about, those difficult to fill jobs.

[Timothy R. Hogues, Commissioner, NYS Department of Civil Service]: J. Yeah. No. And so with the New York Helps program, it has assisted agencies in filling up that first layer that you're talking about.

[Assembly Member Gary Pretlow, Chair, Assembly Ways and Means Committee]: -Mm -But

[Timothy R. Hogues, Commissioner, NYS Department of Civil Service]: it's also provided the opportunity for individuals to take that next step. As I spoke about in my testimony, we are committed to opening computer based testing centers, which four of them are already open. We've held small holdings in those centers.

[Assembly Member Stacey Pheffer Amato, Chair, Assembly Governmental Employees Committee]: I'm going to interrupt you. Tell me how that goes. Want to apply for that second job. Can you elaborate what that looks like in the center? I do mean to interrupt you.

[Timothy R. Hogues, Commissioner, NYS Department of Civil Service]: No, no, no. That's Okay. Yeah, yeah. No, that's great. And so once again, through the funding that was provided through this honorable body and Governor Hochul, we set out on a plan a few years ago to open up computer based testing centers because we saw during the pandemic, it was difficult for us to be able to continue to hold testing and that stuff because we were reliant on schools and other stuff. And so we wanted to give our current employees, as retention type of tool, the opportunity to have efficient, effective ways to take promotional examinations. So we're opening up computer based testing centers across the state so that individuals can go to a computer based testing center. They can schedule themselves, right, to be able to do that and compete and move to the next level. And so as I mentioned, we have four open. One is in Buffalo, Rochester, Syracuse, and right here in Albany. And this weekend, we're actually holding a larger promotion exam at all four of those locations. And so we are moving at a rapid pace. And so the thing I want to emphasize to this honorable body is that we cannot afford to go backwards. We cannot afford to go back to the way we've been doing stuff because we're not only competing with the private sector, but we're competing with not for profits and that type of stuff. And so this workforce that is out there that is transitioning from job to job or seeking opportunities with New York State, they are not looking for an archaic method of entering into state government. So that's why we have seen the success of New York Helps. And we've seen in places where we're only getting a couple of applications, we're seeing hundreds and thousands of applications, which makes our applicant management system and job portal that much more important so we can respect both the agency's time and the job applicant's time.

[Assembly Member Stacey Pheffer Amato, Chair, Assembly Governmental Employees Committee]: And then once you get all those applications, it goes to the agency that requested that position, right? Yes. They're the ones who really then take that experience training standards and really look at those applicants.

[Timothy R. Hogues, Commissioner, NYS Department of Civil Service]: So exactly. And so the beautiful thing about this is the transformation that we're doing with the Jobs Portal and Applicant Management System, it provides us with more data and insight to the process and what's happening at the different levels. And the Department of Civil Service is able to make sure that we have the guardrails that are put up so that we can audit appropriately and make sure that all the appointments that are made are made according to New York state standards. And if we find something that has gone awry or someone's made a mistake or someone tried to skirt the system, we can reverse that appointment. So this is bringing us up to date into some modern times, and we're excited about that opportunity.

[Assembly Member Stacey Pheffer Amato, Chair, Assembly Governmental Employees Committee]: Thank you. And Director, for just a second, the commissioner before talked about the success that New York became the first state in the nation to mandate paid prenatal leave for pregnant workers. And I believe I asked this question to you last year, and I have to just address it. We're addressing I think this leave is great for pregnant workers, but we just still are not addressing what happens in the stillbirth situation for a mom. And we're not if we could mandate paid prenatal care, then we have to mandate post stillbirth care for a mom, which is maybe 1,000 moms over. Can we just talk about that? What is it going to take to get that approval? To get to have that acknowledgment of it's not other working. I'm going to come back on my end for three minutes so you have time to think on that

[Unidentified legislator/interjection]: one. Thanks.

[Assembly Member Stacey Pheffer Amato, Chair, Assembly Governmental Employees Committee]: I'll be back. Thank you. Thanks.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, NYS Senate Finance Committee]: Thank you. I'm sorry. First, we have Senator Fernandez.

[Senator Nathalia Fernandez]: SEN. Good afternoon.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, NYS Senate Finance Committee]: Good afternoon.

[Senator Nathalia Fernandez]: I want to make, I guess, a comment about the NY Helps program. Totally agree with the concept and its ability to get people into jobs quicker. But there has been an experience just as two days ago that I got from a constituent of mine that they were in the program, been assisted to get a promotion, different position, But now the civil service of it was Westchester County came back saying that they still need to fulfill requirements and take tests. So I don't know how well the system is functioning, if someone that's in the program now is still being told requirements as if they're not in the program. But that needs to be something tweaked out because it caused a lot of confusion and now holding up this person's progress of moving into the position and working effectively comfortably. But I love the concept. And I do think we need to just continue to strengthen it. But I do have a question that I would like to share. Forgive me. Okay. The governor tasked civil service with doing a comprehensive review of total compensation, including retirement benefits, to determine why we are having recruitment and retention issues in the state. Do we have an update on where study is and when we will see it?

[Timothy R. Hogues, Commissioner, NYS Department of Civil Service]: Yes. And so as I mentioned to your colleague that we are pretty much the analysis portion of that compensation study is complete. And so we're just buttoning it up with some reviews. And we expect it to be out definitely this year, but as soon as possible. Just going through all those to make sure that it is comprehensive and touching all the pieces. And so we thank you for the funding and expect it to be out.

[Senator Nathalia Fernandez]: JULIE Okay. And could you say something about my comment about New York helps and how some problems are still existing with, I guess, systems not up to date and seeing that people are able to move forward in positions without getting told that they still have to do the test and requirement and all these things?

[Timothy R. Hogues, Commissioner, NYS Department of Civil Service]: J. Sure. And so I'm not totally clear on it. Sounds like it's a local civil service It's

[Senator Nathalia Fernandez]: very local, but it's happening. M. This is supposed to be a program that is clear cutting the way to help people get into different positions that need filling. But they're still getting told and held back from pursuing in those positions of tests and requirements and certifications that they have to seek when they've been, on the other hand, pushed through?

[Timothy R. Hogues, Commissioner, NYS Department of Civil Service]: J. Okay. So New York Helps is basically for opportunities that are open to the public. So individuals that see an opening, they meet the minimum qualifications for that opening, they can apply. If they are interviewed and hired, then they have the ability to successfully complete their probationary period. But if they are looking to promote, then that is a different mechanism where they would have to take a promotion issue.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, NYS Senate Finance Committee]: JOSHUA Thank you. We have to cut you off.

[Assembly Member Gary Pretlow, Chair, Assembly Ways and Means Committee]: Assemblyman DeStefano.

[Assembly Member Joe DeStefano]: JOSHUA Thank you, Chair Brentwell. Commissioner, director, welcome. A couple of questions for each of you. The first one, I guess, would be for Commissioner public protection.

[Michael Volforti, Director, NYS Governor’s Office of Employee Relations (OER)]: We

[Assembly Member Joe DeStefano]: had the hearing a couple of weeks ago, and it was very much discovered that we are having a problem with critical workers in the public safety sector. What are we doing to address those issues?

[Timothy R. Hogues, Commissioner, NYS Department of Civil Service]: J. So thank you for that. And we work closely with all of our partners throughout state and local government. As I mentioned in my testimony, we have done several marketing campaigns to promote the opportunities for jobs both at the state and local level. Our MSD division has worked to increase the number of examinations and the frequency of those law enforcement examinations to give them more opportunities to compete. When we talk about docs and that, we have done a number of things in conjunction with OER from increasing the pay to increasing the title to providing bonus opportunities both for new employees and for current employees. We have decentralized examinations to help them with their recruitment. And so we continue to look for those opportunities to help out. And so if you have suggestions on some of the things that we have

[Assembly Member Joe DeStefano]: We always have suggestions.

[Timothy R. Hogues, Commissioner, NYS Department of Civil Service]: We are always open to that. And before I turn it over, one of the things I do want to reiterate is, as I mentioned to Senator Jackson, our team has been going around the state and listening to local civil service communities. And a couple of the things that pop up are police and fire. And so we are working on collecting all of that feedback and going to circle back to work with them to figure out how we can better serve them and help them out.

[Assembly Member Joe DeStefano]: J. Thank you. Director, this one is for you. What happened last year with corrections officers and stuff like that, as a proud member of civil service for thirty years I worked twenty seven of those in a jail myself what are we doing to correct the problem of having the National Guard people still there and paying as much money as we are to support the both of them not working there and being so shorthanded? Is there any plan to make the exodus so these people can go back to their regular lives? J.

[Michael Volforti, Director, NYS Governor’s Office of Employee Relations (OER)]: So the Nash and I'm sure Commissioner Marcelo may have touched on some of this in his testimony, so I'm sorry if I'm being duplicative. But the National Guard is supplementing current staffing. Certainly, we didn't get to the staffing we find ourselves in overnight, and it's not going to change overnight. DOCS has undertaken various increased methods to try and hire regional hiring, trying to keep folks regionally, just getting more people into the academy. We've take took certain actions with the MOA we struck to take us out of the strike. And then afterwards, we've increased things and done new programs like referral bonuses, new recruit bonuses where if you stay on for a period of time, get extra money. So it's a process. And certainly in negotiations, we'll be dealing on other things that the union brings forward.

[Assembly Member Joe DeStefano]: Where do you see the number at, where we are with the National Guard still in there? And where do you see the replacement need to be? How many are we talking about?

[Michael Volforti, Director, NYS Governor’s Office of Employee Relations (OER)]: I don't have a number for you off the top of my head. I know that docs is still down thousands of where it wants to be. So I think it's going to be a slow process to J.

[Senator Steve Rhoads]: What about get the back closures?

[Assembly Member Joe DeStefano]: What about the prison closures? Have we done anything over the last couple of years to kind of help out the people that were relocated? DELL:

[Michael Volforti, Director, NYS Governor’s Office of Employee Relations (OER)]: My understanding is that the department just closed one prison in Northern New York. And literally, it's one of the prisons where there's two more prisons just down the street. So DOCS is able to offer relocation opportunities to everyone. I know that a number of those were local. I'd have to defer to the department on exactly where everybody wound up in that. But, you know, certainly, there will be there was opportunities for them to be as local as docs could provide. And then over time, those individuals, if they had to relocate to

[Assembly Member Gary Pretlow, Chair, Assembly Ways and Means Committee]: other ones J. That for

[Assembly Member Joe DeStefano]: both sworn and civilian personnel? Yes.

[Timothy R. Hogues, Commissioner, NYS Department of Civil Service]: J. It's for both.

[Michael Volforti, Director, NYS Governor’s Office of Employee Relations (OER)]: B. Rules for both.

[Senator Rob Rolison]: J. B.

[Timothy R. Hogues, Commissioner, NYS Department of Civil Service]: J. B. So Civil Service Career Mobility Office helps with those closures to make sure that the employees understand all their rights and the responsibilities and the options that they have to make sure that they are successful when we have a downturn.

[Assembly Member Joe DeStefano]: Thank you both.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, NYS Senate Finance Committee]: Thank you very much. Excuse me. Senator Chris Ryan?

[Senator Sean M. Ryan]: Good afternoon. I'll be quick on my first question because Senator Fernandez stole it. So I'm just looking for that wage competitive study as soon as possible because I think we'll find out that we are losing talent because I don't think we pay people enough. But we'll get there. Secondly, I want to stay with corrections a little bit. I don't know how we would do this. I've been funding I would love to see a study, kind of like a wage competitiveness study, but a study in corrections to see how we are. A couple of years ago, we passed a legislation about safe staffing in hospitals. I would love to see that done in corrections as well, because I think what we're going to find is that staffing is really, really, really, really low. And it's a problem for not just our state employees, but it's also a problem for the inmates as well. It's there are NYSCOBA employees. They're PEPF, right? They're DC thirty seven. And what are your thoughts on that? How would we commission that?

[Michael Volforti, Director, NYS Governor’s Office of Employee Relations (OER)]: Well, if a study was passed and enacted into law, the department would have to conduct a study. I know that they are in the process of reviewing staffing. And they you know, every jail has a staffing plan. And certainly, you know, it's certainly now known that they are below where they want to be. And they're trying to take steps, you know, on the law enforcement side to increase, you know, hiring so that they get more correction officers? And then certainly, eventually, those individuals can be promoted up the chain of command and fill other vacancies?

[Senator Sean M. Ryan]: J. So I think there's a really, really big problem with not just retaining but recruitment. And I think that we again, not to get down in the weeds with it because it's an idea for a concept that I may or contemplating passing a law that commissioned such study. We'd have to find out how much we'd have to budget. But I think in the interest of safety, I think we it's something that we need to do. And I'm looking forward to working with you because we have a problem. We have a really, really big problem. And hopefully we can find it. We need to get our arms

[Senator Rob Rolison]: around it.

[Michael Volforti, Director, NYS Governor’s Office of Employee Relations (OER)]: I would say that just, you know, not that it solves all of the issues you're raising, but there currently is a recruitment bonus so that employees can get bonuses if they recruit people who come in to docs. And then those individuals who come in to docs

[Senator Steve Rhoads]: I think can also similarly, get additional

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, NYS Senate Finance Committee]: services.

[Senator Sean M. Ryan]: It's even worse, right? So we're trying to give money to people that do recruit. We still we're throwing money at people and bonuses to recruit. We still can't even get there. So I think we need to pull back, and we need to see where the staffing levels are and get to the root cause of the problem as to why people don't want to

[Timothy R. Hogues, Commissioner, NYS Department of Civil Service]: go to work in those

[Senator Sean M. Ryan]: facilities. Thanks.

[Assembly Member Gary Pretlow, Chair, Assembly Ways and Means Committee]: Thank you. Assemblyman Brunson.

[Assembly Member Harry B. Bronson, Chair, Assembly Labor Committee]: Thank you, chair. I'm really encouraged that both of your offices have emphasized diversity, equity, and inclusion, both from the training side director as well as in the recruitment through the civil service. My question is for the commissioner, and notwithstanding what's happening federally. I mean, if we are going to treat all people equally, we need to give them opportunities. And certainly, it's up to them to show that they have the skill set, the knowledge, and the ability to do the job. But if they don't know about the job and if we don't create processes for them to obtain the job, then we're not doing our work as representatives. I'd like to dig in a little bit. You had said, Commissioner, you deployed marketing campaigns to promote the many opportunities across New York State. Your messaging reached millions of New Yorkers with a focus on underserved communities. So please give me more details on what marketing approaches, what strategies did you use to ensure that we were reaching individuals from marginalized and underserved communities to offer them an opportunity to be part of the middle class?

[Timothy R. Hogues, Commissioner, NYS Department of Civil Service]: J. Thank you for that question. And representation is

[Senator Steve Rhoads]: I important.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, NYS Senate Finance Committee]: Think about that answer for one second, Noah Burroughs. We're just double checking. We're not sure JULIET That senator oh, that assembly member Bronson gets

[Assembly Member Gary Pretlow, Chair, Assembly Ways and Means Committee]: JULIET He gets three minutes.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, NYS Senate Finance Committee]: JULIET He gets three minutes, and we gave him ten on the clock. So let's start at keep it at the 02:48. I'm sorry, assembly member.

[Assembly Member Joe DeStefano]: JULIET Three minutes?

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, NYS Senate Finance Committee]: JULIET Because you were the ten minutes for labor, but Stacy was the ten minutes for this panel.

[Speaker 32]: JULIET Didn't you get 10?

[Assembly Member Stacey Pheffer Amato, Chair, Assembly Governmental Employees Committee]: JULIET I got 10 from one panel, not the first panel.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, NYS Senate Finance Committee]: I'm sorry not to have clarified that before, but I just double checked with your chair also.

[Assembly Member Harry B. Bronson, Chair, Assembly Labor Committee]: Very fine.

[Timothy R. Hogues, Commissioner, NYS Department of Civil Service]: Do you want to stay with that question?

[Assembly Member Harry B. Bronson, Chair, Assembly Labor Committee]: Yeah, I'm going to stay with that question, but quickly answer it. I need the strategy because I need to ask the director a question. I wouldn't have utilized so much time talking, so go ahead.

[Timothy R. Hogues, Commissioner, NYS Department of Civil Service]: J. I'll go. So thank you once again. And so we have done marketing on social media. We have done print marketing. We have done billboards, trains, everywhere that we could. But the one thing that has been a game changer for us is the dollars that you have provided for us to co locate in DLL career centers. And so as I mentioned in my testimony, those individuals since the inception, they have touched over 300,000 job applicants, community members. And going into whether the church is having a job fair or just an event, they are getting out there across the state. And so we're excited to have that opportunity.

[Assembly Member Harry B. Bronson, Chair, Assembly Labor Committee]: J. Well, thank you for that. And we have to continue those efforts because we have too many folks in our communities who have been left out in the workforce and economic sidelines for far too long. To the director, you mentioned mental health. In the state, we have a lot of licensed professions who offer psychotherapy. They're licensed to do it. They're trained to do it. We give them the license psychiatrists, psychologists, mental health counselors, marriage and family therapists, psychoanalysts, and licensed creative art therapists. Do the insurance policy that you have include payment and coverage for licensed creative art therapists?

[Michael Volforti, Director, NYS Governor’s Office of Employee Relations (OER)]: I'll have to get back to you on that.

[Assembly Member Harry B. Bronson, Chair, Assembly Labor Committee]: J. Right. It's important that they do, and I'll explain why. Number one, we should have access to types of therapy modalities that work best for us. And this is a different modality. But more so, more so, there is a group of people who cannot receive psychotherapy in any other modality because they can't speak. Think of it. If you're on the couch, you know the stereotype, and your therapist says, how does that make you feel? You can't speak. You can't explain it. This involves individuals with intellectual and developmental disabilities. It involves people who suffered strokes and are no longer verbal. It involves possibly people of sexual assault victims, veterans, and those kind of folks. They cannot receive psychotherapy without having access to licensed creative art therapists. So please get back to us. And if it's not covered, then we need to make

[Speaker 32]: it covered.

[Michael Volforti, Director, NYS Governor’s Office of Employee Relations (OER)]: J. Thing I will say is that coverage DAY: under the plan primarily focuses on what is medically necessary. Absolutely.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, NYS Senate Finance Committee]: But I will confirm by title if they're covered. But certainly, there could and should be an argument to be made that they're medically necessary.

[Assembly Member Harry B. Bronson, Chair, Assembly Labor Committee]: Medically necessary, it's the provider, either a psychologist or a licensed creative art therapist. It's all psychotherapy. Thank you.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, NYS Senate Finance Committee]: Thank you. And again, apologize for the confusion in the middle there. Great. Next we are Senator Mattera. MARTIN:

[Senator Mario R. Mattera]: Thank you, Madam Chair. And thank you both for commissioner and director, thank you so much for your testimony. What is the average length of time from when somebody takes the test, the civil service test, when a job is offered, is made to them?

[Timothy R. Hogues, Commissioner, NYS Department of Civil Service]: J. So thank you for that question. And it varies depending on the agency. It's way too long. And so we know that J.

[Senator Tom O'Mara]: That's what the question is.

[Timothy R. Hogues, Commissioner, NYS Department of Civil Service]: Yeah, yeah. No, I agree with you. You get no argument out of me. The process in itself to get the test scored is a three to four or five month period, depending on test integrity and trying to get all the material

[Senator Mario R. Mattera]: So, Director, we've been talking about this for a lot, a lot of years. When are we getting what are we doing to fix this? What do we need to do as legislators to help this move along? Because I have so many people that take the test. And guess what? They get called, they pass it, they're waiting. And guess what happens? They find another job. It's months. I know, but we've been talking about this for years, years and years and years. We again, I want to say this before to Commissioner of Labor 4.6% unemployment. That equates to 457,800 unemployed people in New York State, that we have all these jobs and we talk about this all day long. But please, what can we do to expedite this?

[Timothy R. Hogues, Commissioner, NYS Department of Civil Service]: So we have seen with the implementation of New York Helps that that had drastically reduced that. And individuals are applying for jobs and get hired within months or a month or so. Our transformation process with the jobs portal and applicant management system will extremely streamline that, and we'll be getting back to applicants immediately. And so that's why this transformation is important. I feel your pain because I was on the local side as a commissioner.

[Senator Mario R. Mattera]: Just quick, I know I only have a minute left, but even like we got jobs also too that are filled and all of a sudden a test is taken and then we all know this too, somebody gets a higher test grade but the employer loves that person. Someone gets a better test grade and then they lose their job.

[Timothy R. Hogues, Commissioner, NYS Department of Civil Service]: Yeah. And so

[Senator Mario R. Mattera]: I mean, some people are good taking tests and some people aren't the best. They're still I mean, there something that could be done with this also too? Because we're hearing this over and over and over again. And we talk about this every year. But we're still not doing MILLER: anything. So please, I want to work with you to make sure that we do whatever we have

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, NYS Senate Finance Committee]: to do to help this out.

[Timothy R. Hogues, Commissioner, NYS Department of Civil Service]: So I appreciate. And I sound like a broken record. But New York Helps has been a game changer. The provision rates across both state and localities is the lowest it's ever been. So individuals are applying for jobs, getting them, they're able to stay in

[Assembly Member Gary Pretlow, Chair, Assembly Ways and Means Committee]: Alright.

[Senator Mario R. Mattera]: Great. Let's please talk about this. And tier we understand what's happening with tier six. Tier six, we're losing a lot of jobs, especially with our police. Well, guess what? I'm losing time here. Our police, our correction officers, our teachers. Tier six, we gotta get back to tier four. Very, very important. It needs to go back to tier four so we could fill these jobs, please.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, NYS Senate Finance Committee]: Thank you.

[Assembly Member Gary Pretlow, Chair, Assembly Ways and Means Committee]: Thank you. Estella Mendurso.

[Assembly Member Michael Durso]: Thank you, Mr. Pretlow. Commissioner, director, thank you both for being here. I just wanted to speak about, unfortunately, once again, in this year's the governor's executive budget, she spoke about affordability. And she's talking about retaining and recruitment, obviously, when it comes to civil service. But once again, she's proposed the elimination of the income related monthly adjustment amount. So when we're talking about putting money in people's pockets and that retainment and recruitment of civil service employees, especially here in New York State, Can you tell me who would mostly be affected if that was to go into effect? Because it's supposed to be for high income earners, right, without retirees. Do you have a percentage of who that would mostly affect?

[Timothy R. Hogues, Commissioner, NYS Department of Civil Service]: J. So I don't have the percentage, but I know it starts the impact for individuals, retirees that are making, I believe, dollars 119,000.

[Assembly Member Michael Durso]: But that's $119,000 That's their retirement plus any other income, right? So including social security if they had to get another job, anything like that. So my concern with that is, for one, is retirees, people that went to work for the state, were promised a retirement, right? They came in. We're recruiting them and want to retain them and bring more people in because we say, come work for the state, come work at civil service. You're going have a retirement. You can live, work, thrive here in New York State, and then we're possibly going to pull the rug out from under our retirees, which I don't agree with. But on top of that, now we're telling people they're going to be punished because they're going to retire making $60,000 $70,000 They have to go work another job so they can afford to live here, right? What are we doing to protect our retirees?

[Timothy R. Hogues, Commissioner, NYS Department of Civil Service]: So I appreciate that perspective. And I do a lot of new employee orientation. And we know that the data shows that the average age of entry into state government is around 36 years of age. We know that individuals are staying anywhere from twelve to sixteen years in state government. They're retiring around 55, 62. And so I said all that to say, I've listened to individuals talk about prior experience in the private sector and how the benefits in the private sector don't necessarily add up to the benefits they're getting in the state. And so they appreciative and excited about this opportunity to have a pension, to have these types of benefits that are available. We are following the federal government on the IRMA. And so we believe it's appropriate. But we can continue to have the discussion. But when we look at that recruitment, they are coming to the state for the benefits and the balance.

[Assembly Member Michael Durso]: Absolutely. But again, using that as a tool for that recruitment and retainment of qualified employees and getting more people to work for the state and then giving them what we promised them, which is a good retirement, not pulling back money on them. My biggest concern with that also is it's got to be around 60%, maybe 50% of those people are first responders that have retired, police and fire. And now we're pulling the rug out from under them, which I think is a terrible thing to do.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, NYS Senate Finance Committee]: Thank you very SENATOR much. Next is Senator Ramos, three minutes. Hi, good afternoon. SENATOR Good

[Senator Jessica Ramos, Chair, NYS Senate Labor Committee]: How's everybody? Thank you both for being here. I wanted to ask about the state purchase of Eightfold AI. So my understanding is that we purchased it to store candidate profiles. How's that working?

[Timothy R. Hogues, Commissioner, NYS Department of Civil Service]: So I'm not sure if you are referring to the DOL. And so the department J.

[Senator Jessica Ramos, Chair, NYS Senate Labor Committee]: No, I'm referring to the Department of Civil Service.

[Timothy R. Hogues, Commissioner, NYS Department of Civil Service]: J. D. The Department of Civil Service just recently finalized that contract and got approved to move forward with it. So we are in the very beginning of our planning stages just to seeing the capability and how it will fit up with what we are trying to do. So as far as storing the what did you say? Storing what?

[Senator Jessica Ramos, Chair, NYS Senate Labor Committee]: Candidate profiles.

[Timothy R. Hogues, Commissioner, NYS Department of Civil Service]: Candidate profiles. I'm trying

[Senator Jessica Ramos, Chair, NYS Senate Labor Committee]: to keep a distance because it's so loud.

[Timothy R. Hogues, Commissioner, NYS Department of Civil Service]: Yeah, that's Okay. So yeah, so we're in the beginning stages of looking at that. So we are not looking at doing anything that will be detrimental to candidates. It is similar to the technology that's used for LinkedIn. And so as I mentioned before, in our transformation phase of this, we have to provide both agencies and job seekers with an efficient way to be able to handle and apply for these jobs.

[Senator Jessica Ramos, Chair, NYS Senate Labor Committee]: I think we have the best of intentions. My concern here is the fact that the company is being sued out in California for breaking three very important laws their Fair Credit Reporting Act, their Unfair Competition Law, and Investigative Consumer Reporting Agencies Act. And so I'm curious about the vetting process here and why it is that we felt that that was the best company to serve New Yorkers and our civil servants.

[Timothy R. Hogues, Commissioner, NYS Department of Civil Service]: J. So good. And so we became aware of the lawsuit after we were finished with our process. We follow all of the procurement process and regulations and the guidance

[Senator Jessica Ramos, Chair, NYS Senate Labor Committee]: if that in place. They're found guilty of wrongdoing, would we terminate the contract?

[Timothy R. Hogues, Commissioner, NYS Department of Civil Service]: J. So I can't say that for certain. Like I said, we're in the beginning stages of the process. We are working closely with ITS in this process.

[Senator Jessica Ramos, Chair, NYS Senate Labor Committee]: J. Very quickly, I want to ask you about making the civil service exam accessible to people with disabilities. How can we make it available, for example, in ASL?

[Timothy R. Hogues, Commissioner, NYS Department of Civil Service]: J. So we continue to work with our partners over with Kim Ridley and her team. And so we're always looking for that. When we looked at creating our testing centers for promotion exams, we took all of that into consideration. We've had

[Senator Jessica Ramos, Chair, NYS Senate Labor Committee]: Are the exams conduct can the exams be conducted in ASL? How close are we to actually doing that? I get that you're looking at it. What's being done?

[Timothy R. Hogues, Commissioner, NYS Department of Civil Service]: So we're just looking at it. Have opportunities for accommodation for individuals that need certain accommodations.

[Assembly Member Gary Pretlow, Chair, Assembly Ways and Means Committee]: Thank you very much. We've been joined by Assembly Member Al Taylor. Our next question will be Assemblyman Phil Palissamo.

[Senator Tom O'Mara]: ALTERSON G. Yes, good evening. Sorry. I don't want get ahead of myself. It's one of them.

[Assembly Member Phil Palmesano (Assembly Minority Ranker)]: I'm kind of new to this. Good afternoon. My questions are for the director. Obviously, the issue of what happened with our corrections officers and the work stoppage last year was significant. And we know you were involved in discussions and negotiations. I also know we also know you were involved your office was involved and signed off with the docs related to proposed changes to the HALT Act. And certainly, we'd love to know how that's being implemented. But we know to have significant impact, we need to pass it in statute. And I did ask the DOCS commissioner when he was here, why did not Governor Hochul put that in her budget proposal if you want to negotiate from a position of strength? Because there's people that I serve with that don't want any changes to halt. But if she's concerned about the safety and well-being of our corrections officers, we know the safety issue is one of the main reasons for the work stoppage on top of the quality of life because of the massive overtime, double, triple overtime shifts. We know and you signed off on it, all the unions supported it that we need these changes, not repeal, but changes. Why didn't the governor not put it in her budget to show that she cares about this issue and wants it to happen? Then she's saying that's a priority for her. Why did she not put that in her budget? And did you advise her to put it in her budget? Because it's not there.

[Michael Volforti, Director, NYS Governor’s Office of Employee Relations (OER)]: J. So while we're a member of the HALT Committee, really the lead on the HALT Committee was the Department of Corrections.

[Senator Sean M. Ryan]: So I wasn't involved in any conversation.

[Assembly Member Phil Palmesano (Assembly Minority Ranker)]: Well, signed the paper.

[Michael Volforti, Director, NYS Governor’s Office of Employee Relations (OER)]: DAVID Well, my staff was involved. And I'm disavowing being there and supporting it, but DOCS is the lead agency Okay, understand. On that.

[Assembly Member Phil Palmesano (Assembly Minority Ranker)]: But he deferred and said, you know, it's up to the governor. You're the governor's office of employee relations. Did you guys advise the governor to sign it to put it in her budget? And why didn't she put it in her budget?

[Michael Volforti, Director, NYS Governor’s Office of Employee Relations (OER)]: That would be a departmental covering the Department of Corrections only. It wouldn't be it's not an employee relations

[Senator Steve Rhoads]: bill.

[Assembly Member Phil Palmesano (Assembly Minority Ranker)]: Well, let's talk about if you want talk about employee relations, I mean, recruitment and retention is employee relations, correct? Would that is that fair?

[Assembly Member Gary Pretlow, Chair, Assembly Ways and Means Committee]: Correct.

[Assembly Member Phil Palmesano (Assembly Minority Ranker)]: Yeah, good. Okay. One of the big issues that our corrections officers have been asking for, for years, a bill that's passed our house unanimously three times, once vetoed by Governor Cuomo and twice vetoed by Governor Hochul. And her reasons for vetoing the bill were that we need to do this part of the budget. But then, she never puts it in her budget. She didn't put it in her budget the second year, vetoed it, vetoed it again. And here it is, not in her budget this year. And I asked the commissioner then, why

[Timothy R. Hogues, Commissioner, NYS Department of Civil Service]: didn't he put it in

[Assembly Member Phil Palmesano (Assembly Minority Ranker)]: the budget? And he wouldn't comment. I think they want to see it. If the this is a serious recruitment and retention tool to protect the retirement of those individuals who work a very dangerous job. Why would she not put it in their budget? That will help with your retention and have it because we know 2,000 CEOs were fired. We have what? Shortage of nearly 4,000. That would help address a major recruitment a retention issue, and certainly help on recruitment because when they know they have that protection for their loved one. Why is the governor not putting this in their budget?

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, NYS Senate Finance Committee]: Thank you.

[Assembly Member Phil Palmesano (Assembly Minority Ranker)]: Did you just think and then we're to pass it and she's going to veto it? Don't understand.

[Michael Volforti, Director, NYS Governor’s Office of Employee Relations (OER)]: I understand the point you're making.

[Assembly Member Phil Palmesano (Assembly Minority Ranker)]: I don't have any information

[Michael Volforti, Director, NYS Governor’s Office of Employee Relations (OER)]: on why the governor didn't why the administration didn't

[Assembly Member Khaleel M. Anderson]: put it in the budget.

[Assembly Member Phil Palmesano (Assembly Minority Ranker)]: Well, I'll give you my interpretation of why she didn't, because she doesn't care. If she did, she would put the death gamble in the budget. She knows it. Her staff knows it. You don't have to admit to it, neither does the docs commissioner. She did not put in her budget because she does not care. She did not put the halt reforms in her budget because she did not care. We've seen her with policy after policy after policy. She's putting policy in the budget. If it's important to her, cell phone bans in schools was important to her. She put her in a ban, but not halt reforms to protect the corrections officers and the other employees, civilian employees that work inside those facilities, needed that reform that everyone signed off on. That you signed the paperwork, docs signed the paperwork, NYSCOBA signed the paperwork, all the unions said this is a good step in the right direction. But yet, not in the budget. The reason, I know you can't speak for her, but I will take preference to say, she didn't put in her budget because she does not care. And if she was standing right here, I'd say the same thing to her.

[Senator Tom O'Mara]: I'm just appalled that lack of action by this administration dealing with the recruitment and retention issue on the death gamble that she's vetoed twice, and not putting halt reform not halt repeal, halt reform to protect the corrections office and the civilian employees that are working inside that correctional facility and are under assault each and every day. And it's also that reform would also help protect the incarcerated individuals. Let's make that clear too, because the incarcerated individual on incarcerated individual assaults are skyrocketing just like the incarcerated individual on staff assault. So maybe when you talk to the governor you could say that. And I know it's not you, but it's just, I'm just very frustrated and passionate about this issue. I'm tired of waiting around for an action to happen, it doesn't happen.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, NYS Senate Finance Committee]: Thank you very much. Oh, sorry. There we go. Working. We have Senator Rollison.

[Senator Rob Rolison]: Thank you, Madam Chair. Good to see you both. I wanted to talk just a little bit briefly on New York HELPS. Commissioner, how many individuals at the state level were hired during that program, which I think started in 2023? Am I correct with that?

[Timothy R. Hogues, Commissioner, NYS Department of Civil Service]: Yes, it did. And so as I mentioned in my testimony, across both state and local, there's been over 52,000 appointments, 38,000 appointments at the state level, which equates to roughly and don't quote me on this but roughly 24,000 new appointments. So new employees into state because current employees were able to utilize the HELPS program to move to different opportunities as well.

[Senator Rob Rolison]: J. And from a discussion here today, my understanding is that that is going to wind down in June? Correct. Have either of you thought about or maybe you're doing it and I don't know this that's a significant amount of people. And when we think about especially on the state side, what has the experience been of the employees, of the individuals we've hired, the ones that have stayed, even the ones that maybe have left on what the state can do to better recruit, but also retain the individuals. You've got an audience now of people you've brought in or that. Have you thought about that?

[Timothy R. Hogues, Commissioner, NYS Department of Civil Service]: J. Yes. We think about that all the time. And so we know that reducing the barriers to entry have created an uptick, a huge uptick in individuals interested in applying for state jobs. How we onboard individuals is important, but also how we respect individuals in the hiring process. And so that's what's so important about our new jobs portal and applicant management system as far as getting back to individuals along the way, allowing individuals to enter in their information once. And it stays in the system. So if they're applying for multiple positions, they don't have to continuously submit stuff into the system as they're currently doing. So there's a lot of great efficiencies that are happening. And then also, talk about the benefits that are available for individuals. But we also talk about New York State as one big employer. So individuals that come into the state and they're coming in, the younger folks, we talk about the opportunity to start maybe at one state agency, and you can move around and have a great career in Milwaukee.

[Senator Rob Rolison]: Because it's one thing to come in. The other part is, well, how's it going when you got here? Yeah. Because obviously, a

[Assembly Member Khaleel M. Anderson]: lot of

[Senator Rob Rolison]: people don't know. I mean, we've heard that, you know, families are not, you know, moving like they once did into the state, you know, employment workforce. So, I think that's important. I'd certainly love to see that at some point in time. Like, you're now here, but how do you feel about being here? And what can we do better to keep you here?

[Timothy R. Hogues, Commissioner, NYS Department of Civil Service]: J. Yeah, so at the agency, we do a lot

[Senator Rob Rolison]: of that. J. Thank you.

[Assembly Member Gary Pretlow, Chair, Assembly Ways and Means Committee]: J. Thank you. Assembly Member Boros.

[Assembly Member Alex Bores]: Thank you both for being here. My questions are for the commissioner. First, does the Department of Civil Service track the federal offices, like where people come from when they use or benefit from New York Helps?

[Timothy R. Hogues, Commissioner, NYS Department of Civil Service]: J. Say that one more time. I'm

[Senator Sean M. Ryan]: sorry. J.

[Assembly Member Alex Bores]: For the New York Helps program, do you track which federal offices people are coming from if they're getting recruited in? Are the benefits we've targeted to federal offices?

[Timothy R. Hogues, Commissioner, NYS Department of Civil Service]: Right. So we don't per se track the individuals. As you may be aware, myself, the governor, and Commissioner Reardon went to New York City to meet with families, individuals from the federal government that were displaced during that time. So go ahead.

[Assembly Member Alex Bores]: A specific question. If you have to follow-up, please do, to choose a random date. Since 01/20/2025, have any ICE officers benefited from New York helps?

[Timothy R. Hogues, Commissioner, NYS Department of Civil Service]: I don't know the answer to that.

[Assembly Member Alex Bores]: Could you follow-up afterwards?

[Timothy R. Hogues, Commissioner, NYS Department of Civil Service]: Yeah, yeah.

[Assembly Member Alex Bores]: Thank you. I do want to follow-up on Chair Ramos' questions about Eightfold. I know you said you just finalized the contract and there's more going forward. To read from Eightfold's privacy policy, they say personal data, which includes the applicant information as well as, you know, anything that's entered in, as well as pulling from LinkedIn directly, that that data can be used to build, train, and validate their models. Do we have in the contract anywhere protections that ban Eightfold from using information of people in the New York service or applying for applications to train their models?

[Timothy R. Hogues, Commissioner, NYS Department of Civil Service]: J. So like I mentioned, we are in the beginnings of that. I believe we do have some guardrails in place to make sure of that. We are working closely with ITS to make sure that they have met all the benchmarks and requirements that the state has in place. But specifically, we will get back to you on that.

[Assembly Member Alex Bores]: Well, would it be your understanding that those requirements do include not using

[Timothy R. Hogues, Commissioner, NYS Department of Civil Service]: J. Not using social media and that type of stuff to pull in external stuff to make that type

[Assembly Member Michael Durso]: of J.

[Assembly Member Alex Bores]: Great. And also not sharing that data back faithful to train their own models. Wonderful. Great. They do have on their website a bias audit that they've gone through. And I hope we'll pay close attention to that and keep

[Speaker 33]: up with it.

[Assembly Member Alex Bores]: I just also want to ask, consistent with our broad policies and loading and other bills that have been passed, how will DCS manage candidates

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, NYS Senate Finance Committee]: who

[Assembly Member Alex Bores]: might want to challenge the validity of the rating factors that are created by the AI and having a human explanation as to the decisions that were made.

[Timothy R. Hogues, Commissioner, NYS Department of Civil Service]: J. Yeah. And so the technology that we're using with that we're partnering with Eightfold is not doing any of our scoring. So we're still using civil service individuals in our system to do the scoring. What the Eightfold does is provide maybe a suggested ranking on preferred qualifications. But we can talk

[Speaker 34]: more about

[Assembly Member Alex Bores]: that. Thank you.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, NYS Senate Finance Committee]: You. Next up is Senator Rhodes.

[Senator Steve Rhoads]: Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you both for your testimony, Commissioner Hoagues. Just a follow-up to Senator Meterra's questions regarding tier six. We've made, in the last couple of years, we've sort of tinkered around the edges of tier six. Do you know how many open positions there are right now at the state level?

[Timothy R. Hogues, Commissioner, NYS Department of Civil Service]: I'm not exactly sure how many are. They're probably between close to maybe 10,000, maybe. I can get you a better answer. I don't have that specifically.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, NYS Senate Finance Committee]: Okay.

[Senator Steve Rhoads]: With respect to the tier six revisions, obviously, we've changed the calculation of pensions from the highest five years to the highest three years. We've removed overtime from the calculation of salary for the purposes of determining the employee contribution rate. As a result of these changes, do you know if there's been any appreciable difference in the number of positions that we still have open? We know that, obviously, tier six is a barrier in many instances to retention, recruitment, hiring. But have we seen any change in those numbers? Because it seems as though we still have a tremendous number of open positions even after these reforms.

[Timothy R. Hogues, Commissioner, NYS Department of Civil Service]: J. Yeah. And so we've done a lot of work around recruitment and retention. As I mentioned earlier, we're seeing that the average age of individuals coming into state government is 36. So they've had a job somewhere else, probably in the private sector. Now they're opting for a public sector job. And I hear as I mentioned, I do a lot of new employee orientations. And we hear the reason why individuals are coming, for the most part, is work life balance and then also the benefits. To your question as far as retention, I think when individuals start to get into state government and talk to colleagues, that's when the tier six or that retirement type of conversations come up. I would have to lean to my colleague as far as tier six, what's going on that. But we haven't really heard and this is for my agency and the individuals that I talk to we really haven't heard that when they make that decision to come in that they're looking at tier six. Now, when we talk about the retention and when they look at other individuals doing their job that may have come in or entered into the state earlier, that's when that tier six or the benefits come into play.

[Senator Steve Rhoads]: So you're saying that at the time that we actually retain at the time we actually hire new employees, those new employees do not look at what the difference is between tier six and tier four?

[Timothy R. Hogues, Commissioner, NYS Department of Civil Service]: J. Yeah, unless have unless their family is in it. But a lot of times, these are new young folks coming in and retirement is

[Senator Robert Jackson, Chair, Senate Civil Service and Pensions Committee]: I in think

[Senator Steve Rhoads]: part of the issue is that they do look at that and have made the decision not to get involved.

[Timothy R. Hogues, Commissioner, NYS Department of Civil Service]: But we could talk. We'll talk. We've seen more applicants

[Assembly Member Gary Pretlow, Chair, Assembly Ways and Means Committee]: DAVID can talk about it later. DAVID Some

[Speaker 14]: of this later.

[Assembly Member Matt Slater]: DAVID Thank you, Chairman. And good afternoon, gentlemen. Commissioner Hoagues, just wanted to go back to the New York HELPS program. I think you said earlier that we were expecting a report coming. Did I hear that correctly?

[Timothy R. Hogues, Commissioner, NYS Department of Civil Service]: I think you're referring to the compensation total compensation study.

[Assembly Member Matt Slater]: I'm sorry. I thought I misunderstood you. That's why I wanted the clarification. So my question is, will there be a report coming on the transparency in data of the New York Helps program? Are you putting that together through your agency?

[Timothy R. Hogues, Commissioner, NYS Department of Civil Service]: So there hasn't been a conversation on a report. What we have done as far as our transformation, we have been very transparent with all of our partners. And we've dedicated a portion of our website to help individuals see the sessions that have gone on, the progress that we're doing, the transformation that is happening. And so all that data information, Q and As are are up there, we are we are updating it on a regular

[Assembly Member Matt Slater]: And that data that data includes things like the number of hires through the program

[Timothy R. Hogues, Commissioner, NYS Department of Civil Service]: So we have yeah.

[Assembly Member Matt Slater]: The titles and agencies, where they were placed

[Timothy R. Hogues, Commissioner, NYS Department of Civil Service]: Yep.

[Assembly Member Matt Slater]: The the starting salary. All of that is available right now on your website?

[Timothy R. Hogues, Commissioner, NYS Department of Civil Service]: So not the starting salary because that be too difficult for us to be able to present that. We thought about that and what that dashboard might look like. But the titles and then they can obviously go and see what But, those titles start yeah, there's a lot of information that is available.

[Assembly Member Matt Slater]: I appreciate that. Thank you. One of the things that we've heard regarding New York Helps is candidates that are being hired through appointments above the minimum. That's resulting in starting salaries higher than existing employees already serving in the same title. Can, is that accurate? Can you confirm that for us?

[Timothy R. Hogues, Commissioner, NYS Department of Civil Service]: I haven't heard issues of that.

[Assembly Member Matt Slater]: And how frequently has civil service approved appointments above the minimum under the New York helps compared to traditional civil service hiring? Is that something that you can provide clarity on?

[Timothy R. Hogues, Commissioner, NYS Department of Civil Service]: That is something that I would have to look into. That is not something that I believe is regular occurrence. J. So that would probably go through another mechanism Moriarty: with classification and compensation to look at that type of stuff. Appreciate There are guardrails around that to make sure it's just not a willy nilly process.

[Assembly Member Matt Slater]: J. Thank you very much. And just in my remaining time, last year in the executive budget, a new optional payment plan for new state employees will become effective 07/01/2026, supposed to alleviate some of the burden of the state payroll lag for new employees. Are we on schedule to ensure that implementation takes place?

[Michael Volforti, Director, NYS Governor’s Office of Employee Relations (OER)]: J. We are on schedule and on time.

[Assembly Member Matt Slater]: J. On schedule, on time? How about on budget? J. Under budget? Under budget. Even better. Thank you very I

[Michael Volforti, Director, NYS Governor’s Office of Employee Relations (OER)]: have not spent a single dollar

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, NYS Senate Finance Committee]: on it.

[Assembly Member Matt Slater]: Thank you very much.

[Assembly Member Michael Durso]: JAMES Thank

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, NYS Senate Finance Committee]: you. Let's see. Next up, we have Senator Borrello.

[Senator George M. Borrello]: JAMES Thank you, Madam Chair. This question is for the director. Thank you both for being here, first of all. You may be aware that we had an incident of violence again at Lakeview shock incarceration in my district. A teacher, a civilian employee, was beaten by an inmate that was unshackled with a history of violence. So how can the governor I want to address what Senator Ryan said. You have to improve the situation if we're going to be able to hire The governor has failed to keep these employees safe. How are you going to do that so we can actually recruit people? J.

[Senator Rob Rolison]: Well,

[Michael Volforti, Director, NYS Governor’s Office of Employee Relations (OER)]: yes, I'm certainly aware of the unfortunate incident that you mentioned, leaving aside the issue of HALT and that prior discussion, the department has the ability and processes in place to ensure employee safety. Incidents do happen. I'm aware of that, and it's very unfortunate. But the certainly, if a crime was committed, I am sure DOCS is looking into working with law enforcement and working with the unions at the local level to review incidents in accordance with their internal plans to prevent workplace violence and make adjustments as necessary to prevent incidents in the future. J.

[Senator George M. Borrello]: All right. But this is about recruitment and retention, right? This is what job you have to do is. Again, governor, as an employer, has a dismal record when it comes to workplace violence, particularly in our prisons.

[Assembly Member Gary Pretlow, Chair, Assembly Ways and Means Committee]: So

[Senator George M. Borrello]: how are you supposed to level that? And you don't want to talk about halt, but halt is the issue, right? There's no consequences. There's no fear of retribution. There's no way to discipline people who commit acts of violence. If you made your way into prison in New York State, you've probably done something pretty bad, right? So how are we going to level this? Isn't HALT changing HALT the best way for you to be able to do your job to recruit and retain employees?

[Michael Volforti, Director, NYS Governor’s Office of Employee Relations (OER)]: J. Certainly, I'm not an expert on HALT, as my agency doesn't I don't staff or supervise the prisons. So I'd have to defer to

[Senator Butcher (new member; first name not stated)]: I understand.

[Michael Volforti, Director, NYS Governor’s Office of Employee Relations (OER)]: Docs on what current avenues they have under existing HALT legislation to take action that sends a message that this can't occur in concert with their current processes for finding inmates or excuse me, incarcerated individuals in violation of safety protocols. And there are internal processes for that. So I'd have to really defer to corrections as to how they manage that situation J. With the current

[Senator George M. Borrello]: have a difficult job because you're trying to sell something that people don't want to buy at this point. And that's to work at a job that is dangerous every day because of bad policy.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, NYS Senate Finance Committee]: Thank you.

[Assembly Member Gary Pretlow, Chair, Assembly Ways and Means Committee]: J. Assemblymember Giglio.

[Assembly Member Jodi Giglio]: J. Thank you. Hi. How are you? So my question has to do with really the tests and the tests being applicable to the job that people are applying for. I know that there are a lot of complaints that I get on Long Island that they're studying for four to six weeks for information that is really not applicable to the job that they're applying for, but it'll be on the test. So they're studying anyway. And I know it's a tremendous task to try and rewrite the tests to make sure that they match the job and things just get added on. And somebody may be applying for a promotion, but they have to go back from the very beginning twenty years ago of what was on the test then and now answer the additional questions for what are applicable to the promotion. So are doing anything in looking at that? Do you need help in trying to revise these tests? And they're also taking a really long time to get the tests actually scored so that they know where they are on the list. And then when they appear on a list, they may live 50 miles away or may have to take two ferries to get to that job. So they're not doing it. So, you you know, know what I'm talking about. We've had the discussion

[Timothy R. Hogues, Commissioner, NYS Department of Civil Service]: Yeah, we've had this discussion. Thank Yes. I appreciate it. And you can go on a commercial for us because we are doing all of that. And it's been thanks to the funding that has been provided. We have increased our staffing dramatically to be able to address those types of things. And we are really laser focused, especially on promotional opportunities because we've heard that. As we talk to both our partners and the union, as we talk to local level, people say, hey, what's going on? It just doesn't make sense sometimes. And so we have our staffing and testing division are really focused on making sure that we are changing up that content to make it more relevant to those that are taking it. When we talk about our transformation process and you're talking about individuals applying to jobs that are in their area, With our new jobs portal and applicant management system, individuals will be applying to a specific job in a specific area so they know where they will be well, excuse me, where they will be working. And so that will alleviate a lot of that. And then when you talk about the timing, us going to computer based testing dramatically reduces the time for an individual to have to take an examination to the feedback loop because of the test integrity. We can't start scoring right now until we get all the materials back. And so that process is just a crazy process. And so with the technology, with the transformation, we heard you and we are moving forward.

[Assembly Member Jodi Giglio]: Okay. So when do you think that the chaos will stop and we'll be able to speed up the process?

[Timothy R. Hogues, Commissioner, NYS Department of Civil Service]: Tomorrow.

[Assembly Member Jodi Giglio]: Thank you for your thoughtful Thank

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, NYS Senate Finance Committee]: you. I think for the Senate side of closing is Senator Jackson with his three minute chair add on.

[Senator Robert Jackson, Chair, Senate Civil Service and Pensions Committee]: JULIE So I'm going talk about recruitment and retention. The executive budget proposed $535,000,000 to support the continued deployment of National Guard to provide security in our correctional facilities and $22,000,000 to support contract nurses to deliver services at DOCS and other agencies. Additionally, the state is projected to spend another $1,500,000,000 to support more than 10,000 consultants working in state government. New York health appointments have entered state service at increased salaries, showing that the trend that recruitment is supported by increased pay. What steps have the civil service made considering the improved retention as opposed to just recruitment? And then what are the initial recommendations, insights from the Deloitte total compensation study funded in 2022? So So I'll throw it to you first, and then for the director's comments on that.

[Timothy R. Hogues, Commissioner, NYS Department of Civil Service]: Okay, thank you so much for those comments. And as I mentioned before, that the study will be out this year. We're very close to finalizing that. And we will release that your review. When it comes to retention at the state level, we have done a number of things. But a lot of it goes to, as I say, the onboarding of individuals, the selection of individuals, and talking to job seekers and their and their experience with both state and local, really having them understand what the job is that they are going into, having the interview process act as part of that to make sure that not only are you right for the state, but is the state right for you. And so we will continue to do that type of stuff to make sure that individuals are staying employed with the state.

[Senator Robert Jackson, Chair, Senate Civil Service and Pensions Committee]: J. Just because of time the question really is, when you bring people in recruiting them, especially in a correctional facility, they have to be trained and a lot more help should be there. Director, do you have any comments on that?

[Michael Volforti, Director, NYS Governor’s Office of Employee Relations (OER)]: J. Sure. I know that while they are often characterized as recruitment tools, the Department of Civil Services also use some of their recruitment retention tools for things like geographic differentials and increased hiring rates that are properly done under their system. And I you know, even though I'm not involved, I'm aware of those. And certainly, during collective bargaining with all of the unions, these are things that we look at in terms of the vast array of health insurance, time off, how scheduling occurs, compensation, which is direct compensation, and other things. And so we'll be looking at those.

[Senator Robert Jackson, Chair, Senate Civil Service and Pensions Committee]: Thank you both.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, NYS Senate Finance Committee]: Thank you.

[Assembly Member Gary Pretlow, Chair, Assembly Ways and Means Committee]: Thank you. I don't see Assemblywoman Zinerman. Assemblywoman Lucas.

[Assembly Member Nikki Lucas]: Great day, again, to everyone in the room. This question is for the commissioner. Many candidates rely on static study guides that don't replicate the timing, structure, or pressure of an actual civil service exam. Has the department considered developing an official digital practice test that mirrors the real testing interface and conditions? And if so, what is the timeline for implementation? And if not, are there any plans?

[Timothy R. Hogues, Commissioner, NYS Department of Civil Service]: So thank you for that. That is not something that we have discussed, but that my team is feverish writing back there. And so we will take that into advisement. We can follow-up on what that might look like.

[Assembly Member Nikki Lucas]: I greatly appreciate that. Last question. Given that the department collects internal racial demographic data but does not publish a comprehensive public breakdown. Are you able to commit to providing current workforce demographic data so we can evaluate representation and equity in civil service hiring?

[Timothy R. Hogues, Commissioner, NYS Department of Civil Service]: We would love to be able to do that. We've recent well, it's not recent anymore. But in the past couple of years, we've updated our data collection form, the DPM 100. And it is made available to all new employees that enter into the state. The thing about it is it's voluntary. And so individuals have to opt in to fill out the demographic data. We've expanded a lot of our demographic data to capture more categories than we have in the past. Unfortunately, with the scene that's happening at the federal level with individuals in different communities being targeted, people just aren't willing voluntarily provide that information. Even though we say, hey, the information is safe, we do everything we can, but they fill it out on a voluntary basis. But it's made available as part of the hiring package to all new employees that enter the state. We would love to figure out a way to collect that data to show the progress that we are making across the state.

[Assembly Member Nikki Lucas]: Maybe that's something that we can work on as well as additional protections to make people feel safe with their information. That was really all the questions I have because other questions were previously asked. So thank you so much.

[Timothy R. Hogues, Commissioner, NYS Department of Civil Service]: J. Thank you.

[Assembly Member Gary Pretlow, Chair, Assembly Ways and Means Committee]: Assembly Member Anderson.

[Assembly Member Khaleel M. Anderson]: JOSHUA Thank you, chair, and thank you, commissioners. I think this is the right panel here to address my question two questions, one with regard to tier six and another with unemployment. So I'll ask the first question first. So what are your thoughts, commissioners, on capping contributions by tier six employees at 3%, the same as tier five employees, so that they can stop paying so much into the system that we'll not be paying them back?

[Michael Volforti, Director, NYS Governor’s Office of Employee Relations (OER)]: J. So I'll take the first answer. Know, pension so my role is to negotiate terms and conditions of employment. Pensions are exclusively out of that. It's one of the few things that's not negotiable. So it's not handled, covered by my office in general. Generally speaking, with regard to tier six, we're aware of the modifications that have been made. Certainly, is a purview of the legislature and the executive to make those modifications. Issues. We've heard people comment. It is one of even in its current state, it is one of the few defined benefit retirement programs that still exist. And even with what some might term as the moderate changes to it, the state has seen, over the past couple of years, an increase in terms of thousands of employees who have come to work for it. So I think while tier six is definitely a consideration, the vast majority of compensation, time off, scheduling, the ability to work for a large employer and have movement is as much or more of a factor in folks coming and staying as perhaps tier six and whatever changes might occur to them.

[Assembly Member Khaleel M. Anderson]: J. Thank you for that. And then I guess in my last fifty eight seconds, I'll skip my other question and just go right into the HELPS program. Just wondering how the HELPS program is plugged into your agency and what the results have been. Are we collecting data on where folks are coming from and if the HELPS program is partnering folks? So

[Timothy R. Hogues, Commissioner, NYS Department of Civil Service]: I know you've got very little time. So HELPS program has been tremendous across the state and local levels. We have seen a very diverse workforce coming through. And individuals from various backgrounds have participated in the program. And so we're excited. And as I talked about in transformation, we're going to use the best of helps as we go through our transformation to continue to reduce the barriers to entry for individuals. And we just can't go backwards.

[Assembly Member Khaleel M. Anderson]: Just in my last five seconds, I just I want to reiterate the point of collecting data on where folks are coming in from so that we can know where those labor forces can be drawn from. Thank you, director. Thank you, commissioner.

[Assembly Member Gary Pretlow, Chair, Assembly Ways and Means Committee]: Thank you. Assemblywoman, Phil Ramos, for her follow ups.

[Assembly Member Stacey Pheffer Amato, Chair, Assembly Governmental Employees Committee]: I can't help myself. I'm back. I couldn't help myself.

[Assembly Member Yudelka Tapia]: He set me up.

[Assembly Member Stacey Pheffer Amato, Chair, Assembly Governmental Employees Committee]: Okay, so we're going to go back to women's health and women's care under stillbirth. So a mother is approved for family leave because she's going to give birth to what one hopes is a healthy baby. And I'm sorry to talk about a sensitive topic. But when that baby is a stillbirth, we revoke that approval of the family leave. And there's been a debate on that, if it goes into TDI, if it goes into other places. My challenge to you is, how do we just continue that as a policy that if there's not a live birth, that that employee because we're talking about employees' care. We're talking about someone returning back to work mentally healthy and physically healthy. But we don't. We expect that mom who had a stillbirth on Monday to go back to work on Wednesday. That's how it lays out.

[Michael Volforti, Director, NYS Governor’s Office of Employee Relations (OER)]: J. I can only comment on the state experience. So you mentioned TDI, and TDI is not applicable to the state. But I just want to make sure I'm kind of properly characterizing what I said. So if we were so to I think when in the first go round, you asked, like, how do we make the change? So like in the upcoming round of bargaining, if the parties decide we can make a change to our paid parental leave program to specifically cover or codicil that under that program, in the absence of that, there is not or should not be an expectation that that individual is returning to work the day or the next day of it because there is a basket of other leave that most state employees have access to. Most state employees earn between eight and thirteen days of sick leave a year. We set aside contractually by civil service rule the ability to use up to thirty days in a calendar year for bereavement. So while they won't have and then there's personal leave and vacation leave. And there may be circumstances that we need to look at that slip through the cracks. And again, it's a traumatic event. But there are other leaves the individual could utilize to remain absent, remain getting paid. It's just not that paid parental leave that you mentioned.

[Assembly Member Stacey Pheffer Amato, Chair, Assembly Governmental Employees Committee]: Right. So it's not the level that they were sort of planning to. And I could kill that whole assumption that you had that if the parent was bedridden and they had to use their sick time I mean, there's a whole bunch of things there. But as a policy for a small group of women, what could we do on the state level that it's just a continuous because those other leaves don't kick in? And I could give you tons of scenarios. I've been working on this. Or even if it's non state people, how can we approach this? And maybe it's from the inside of the state, from your area, that we can help make it for all.

[Speaker 18]: It's only

[Assembly Member Stacey Pheffer Amato, Chair, Assembly Governmental Employees Committee]: a small group of people who going to take advantage. They're not even going to take their twenty weeks to approve. There's a detachment here.

[Michael Volforti, Director, NYS Governor’s Office of Employee Relations (OER)]: J. Yeah. Certainly something we'll look at in the upcoming round.

[Assembly Member Stacey Pheffer Amato, Chair, Assembly Governmental Employees Committee]: And I'll defer my conversation

[Assembly Member Gary Pretlow, Chair, Assembly Ways and Means Committee]: J. Have with you. Ten minutes. And my question is the continuation of Assemblywoman Amato's question.

[Assembly Member Stacey Pheffer Amato, Chair, Assembly Governmental Employees Committee]: What do you say?

[Assembly Member Khaleel M. Anderson]: Continue to answer.

[Assembly Member Stacey Pheffer Amato, Chair, Assembly Governmental Employees Committee]: Thank you.

[Michael Volforti, Director, NYS Governor’s Office of Employee Relations (OER)]: So it's something that we will look at in bargaining. The program that we bargained was specifically with respect to birth adoption and foster care bonding. And that was bargained with the understanding that we have other state benefits in terms of leave, and that is negotiated leave accruals for many employees. You know, so most state employees earn between eight and thirteen sick leave days a year, five personal leave days a year, and 13 vacation days. So it's like we come from a different spot in terms of, like, the private sector. So we negotiated that program. However, we're open to modifications of that program. And that place to discuss those and agree to those for the state workforce will be collective bargaining because that's where we bargained it in the first instance.

[Assembly Member Gary Pretlow, Chair, Assembly Ways and Means Committee]: J. All right. Thank you.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, NYS Senate Finance Committee]: J. I thought it was sorry, sorry. I want to thank you both for your attendance today and your answering our questions. I think there are some questions that you need to get back to some people on. And if you can just get those to us in writing, to Gary and I, we will make sure those go up on the websites along with your original testimony to supplement it. So thank you both for your work on behalf of the state.

[Senator Tom O'Mara]: J. Thank you.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, NYS Senate Finance Committee]: J. Thank you. Okay. We are now moving beyond the government witnesses. So for those of you who were listening this morning, we now shift to panels being called up that have three minutes per person. And then every legislator only has three minutes to ask their questions of the panel. So we move into speed testifying. And frankly, that's because we have a second hearing today after we complete this hearing. So panel A, Retired Public Employees Association. People will recognize Roanne DeStefano from other parts of her life. Organization of New York State Management, OMCE, Confidential Employee Association, Heath Morris Civil Service Employee Association, CSEA, Joshua Terry New York State Public Employee Federation, PEPF, Randy DiAntonio. That's the panel.

[Assembly Member Gary Pretlow, Chair, Assembly Ways and Means Committee]: Okay. You have my personal email? Do. Okay. I do. I'm sorry. Cynthia?

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, NYS Senate Finance Committee]: Okay. Not good morning. Let's try good afternoon. And again, three minutes each. And you'll want to press your button until it turns green when it's your turn to actually testify. And let's start with Roanne DeStefano. DESTENO: Good afternoon. Welcome back.

[RoAnn (Roanne) DeStefano, President, Retired Public Employees Association]: Thank you. Chairwoman Krueger, Chairman Pretlow, ranking member O'Meara, ranking member Palmisano, and members of the Senate Finance Committee and Assembly Ways and Means Committee. I'm Roanne DeStefano, President of the Board of Directors of the Retired Public Employees Association. I am a former assembly member and former commissioner of the Office of General Services. I understand firsthand how decisions made in the state budget affect working families and retirees. Today, I speak on behalf of more than 500,000 New York State and local government retirees whose affordability and benefit security are directly impacted by this budget. RPA's mission is to protect and enhance the pension, healthcare and other benefits public servants earned after decades of dedicated service. This year, our legislative priorities center on one overriding concern retirement affordability and benefit security. Approximately 80% of the New York State and local retirement system retirees and beneficiaries remain in New York after retirement, contributing an estimated $19,200,000,000 annually to local economies through spending, job support, and tax payments. At the same time, the financial reality for many retirees is modest. Most retirees receive a pension under 30,000 per year. For many who retired decades ago, Social Security benefits are limited and some retirees continue working to simply to afford basic necessities. These are not large incomes, even relatively small in health care premiums or erosion in pension purchasing power have real and immediate consequences. This year, for the first time, we have had calls from our members that the premiums for health care have exceeded their COLA. So their pension went down. Affordability is not theoretical for retirees. It affects housing, medication, food and quality of life every day. Our priorities are reject elimination of the Medicare IRMAA reimbursement, modernize and strengthen the pension cost of living adjustment, ensure parity in skilled nursing facility access for Medicare primary NYSHIP enrollees, protect retirees from involuntary reduction of healthcare benefits. We also would like to see the modernizing of the pension earnings cap. Under current law, retirees under age 65 who return to public employment are generally subject to a $35,000 annual earning limitation. We would like to see that increased. Updating the earnings limitation would allow experienced retirees to assist public employers facing staffing shortages while providing retirees modest additional income.

[Assembly Member Yudelka Tapia]: You're welcome.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, NYS Senate Finance Committee]: It's okay. Morris, organization Jim of New York State Management Confidential Employees Association.

[Heath Morrison, Executive Director, NYS Organization of Management Confidential Employees (OMCE)]: There we go. Good afternoon. My name is Heath Morrison. I'm the executive director of the New York State Organization of Management Confidential Employees. So thank you for the opportunity to speak today. New York State relies on highly skilled career professionals to manage agencies and deliver vital public services. These career professionals will design, implement, and administer the very programs and projects that you will approve this legislative session. The success of your programs and projects is dependent upon the efforts of these public servants. Despite this resilience for reliance, the state continues to lose the very leaders it depends on. One of the primary reasons is the persistent and growing inequity in salary and benefits for MC employees. MC compensation has reached a tipping point. Across state government and in some cases, MCs earn less than their unionized counterparts at the very same grade level and in some cases less than the employees they supervise. This pay inversion sends a clear and troubling message. Advancement is penalized and not rewarded. As a result, talented professionals are declining promotions or leaving state service altogether. Why would someone take on greater responsibility and accountability as well as longer hours without overtime while giving up job protections only to earn the same or less than their union represented counterparts and in some cases their subordinate staff. This is not a hypothetical concern. It is happening now. Take for example, the treatment team leaders at OMH. They have been waiting for their approved occupational pay differential for nearly three years and they're still waiting. And to me, this is absurd. Treating MCs this way is hollowing out the state's career leadership pipeline. These inequities have real consequences. They undermine recruitment, retention, and institutional stability. Agencies struggle to fill leadership positions, experienced MCs leave, taking decades of knowledge with them. Remaining staff are stretched thinner, decision making slows, and the quality of public service suffers. Ultimately, it is New Yorkers who pay the price. The bills before you directly address this problem. They restore fairness to the compensation structure, modernize how MC employees are paid, and begin to correct long standing imbalances that have only worsened over time. Most importantly, they send a clear signal that New York State values leadership, experience, and accountability and is willing to back up that plan with action. This is not about special treatment, it is about restoring balance and common sense. A system that discourages advancement is unsustainable. A workforce without a strong leadership framework cannot meet the demands placed on it. Closing the MC compensation gap is not optional. It is essential to maintaining a strong, stable, and high performing state workforce and to ensuring that New York can continue to serve its residents effectively. Thank you for your time and consideration.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, NYS Senate Finance Committee]: JOSHUA you very much. The next is from CSCA, Joshua Terry.

[Joshua Terry, Director of Legislative & Political Action, CSEA]: JOSHUA Good afternoon. I'm Joshua Terry, director of legislative and political action with CSEA, representing frontline workers across the state, including those who have been clearing snow since the blizzard earlier this week. Recruitment continues to be a problem in New York State and to our both state and local government, governments. From 02/2020 through 2025, the state workforce has lost 7,000 employees, and remaining employees are carrying the load, 25,000,000 of overtime last or in 2024 at a cost of $1,300,000,000 If we want people to not just join but also stay in the public sector workforce, we have to make investments. Nobody on the dais currently will be surprised that I will talk about tier six. Over the last several years, the legislature and governor have made a lot of positive changes to the state civil service system. However, if tier six remains in place as it currently is, it undermines all of those efforts. Under tier six, employees are required to work longer, pay more, and receive a smaller benefit at the end of their career. Our ask is very simple. Cap tier six contributions at 3%. Good pay and pensions bring and keep people in the job, but safety is what gets them home on a daily basis. So I'm going to focus on two health and safety proposals that we're pushing this year. We represent social service caseworkers throughout the state. This is high risk work that's done alone in community based settings, often without immediate backup, and the stakes can be deadly. Our member Maria Coto, who was a caseworker in Westchester County, was murdered when she knocked on the wrong door during a home visit. We're asking for two things. One, require social service districts to provide panic buttons to these caseworkers when they're out in the field. And two, is provide a million dollar appropriation to help fund it. We've I think I've spoken with everybody up here about highway safety over the last several years. They continue to face danger. 2024, there were two Thruway Authority employees, including our member, Steven Ebeling, who were killed. May 2025, DOT employee Robert Born was killed in a work zone. And a month later, three DOT workers were hit when a drugged driver intruded into the work zone. We proposed or we support the governor's proposal to expand work zone speed cameras to all to cover all controlled and non controlled access highways. And why is this important? Our member, Robert Born, that I spoke Born that I spoke about previously, he was killed on State Route 7 in Rensselaer County, just across the river, a non controlled access highway that's ineligible to have a work zone camera placed in it. And while it won't bring back Mr. Born, being able to put these cameras across all of our highways will definitely prevent future tragedies. Thank you.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, NYS Senate Finance Committee]: -Thank you very much. And our last witness for this panel from PEPF, Randy DiAntonio.

[Randy DiAntonio, PEF (Public Employees Federation)]: Good afternoon and thank you all for holding this hearing and I appreciate the time today. So you have our written testimony, so I'll just get right into the highlights. As you all have heard, we are still in a staffing crisis. We are still in an overtime and recruitment and retention crisis. In 2024, the state spent 1,300,000,000.0 on overtime. That number is similar for 2025. We've spent 500,000,000 plus on National Guard and 1,500,000,000.0 in consultants. We cannot privatize helps, AI, or overtime our our our way out of this situation. Recruitment and retention requires real solutions and real dialogue. The HELPS program, while we initially supported it, has not been all it's been claimed to be. And we would like to see it end because we've seen longtime employees being passed over promotional opportunities cause the program was only intended originally for entry level emergency placements. And we're seeing it expanded to the point where it's causing hardships for our members. The compensation study, let's we wanna see it. You know, we're talking about recruitment retention. We're talking about bringing in more people. They've been waiting for many years to see this study while at the same time, the department has put a moratorium on agencies submitting for reallocations for upgrades for titles they can't serve until the study's done, but it's nowhere to be found. The testing centers, I was happy to hear that a few have been opened, but we have not heard of any that we can tour or that people have taken tests at, so I'd like more information on that. I think one of the things I would like to emphasize is compensation and civil service issues are one thing, but the safety of the state workforce is a growing concern. While PEF has been supportive and engaged in dialogue around just criminal justice reforms and agency reforms, we have not seen the resources behind those reforms to make them successful. You know, reform accountability and safety are not mutually exclusive. Staff are facing dangerous conditions every day. And let me just be blunt. No one signs up for this. No one signs up to work in a setting where they have to worry if they're gonna go home to their children at night. I spoke to the woman that got assaulted in your facility that you mentioned, and that was her concern that she was going to die. And frankly, we need to do better. We need to improve these things. In addition to physical safety, our members continue to report toxic work environments, and we need a uniform plan to address bullying. We pass a lot of laws, and we support a lot of them. But we need resources and staff. OPW has continued to move services out of rural areas. We want to support solutions, fix tier six, hold people accountable when they assault public employees, improve security for clients and for staff, and let's dust off those compensation studies and see where we can do better. Thank you.

[Senator Jessica Ramos, Chair, NYS Senate Labor Committee]: You know, I'm wondering in the audience, is there anyone from the Department of Civil Service that is here listening to any of this? I'm sorry? Oh, Okay. Oh, the commissioner

[Assembly Member Jodi Giglio]: is here.

[Senator Jessica Ramos, Chair, NYS Senate Labor Committee]: Sorry that I couldn't see you from here. And OER. I'm glad that you stayed, because it's important that I think these testimonies are heard and taken seriously. It's true. We pass laws about workplace bullying, and we do our jobs, but we need to see tangible change happen for the members of these unions, and even for our retirees, after having served our state with so much distinction. So I think, first of all, I apologize that it has been such a headache to fill titles, to have healthy work environments, and to be able to age with dignity and in place, and that to be able to plan for your retirement, because we don't have tier equity in New York State right now. I'm really not sure what to ask you, aside from apologizing on behalf of the state for what it's worth for me. Is there anything else that we can do, especially when it comes to tier equity, it comes to the workplace bullying issue, when it comes to our retirees? Do you want to add anything in the time that's left?

[Assembly Member Jodi Giglio]: Is it any of us?

[Unidentified legislator/interjection]: So, you know, I think a lot of the tier equity piece is is very critical for the recruitment and the retention part. But if we don't deal with some of the safety issues such as at OCFS where we know, you know, it's not it's not just the safety of the employees, it's the safety of the people that they are dedicated to serving. It's also the programming. We put, programs in place that we don't have the bodies or the wherewithal to provide effectively because you can't do one without the other. And in some of these locations, can't do that without the staff that provide supports to the clinical providers. So, I mean, a lot of what's being done at docs with bonus incentives and overtime, you know, recruitment tools should be done in other places. We shouldn't be waiting till we're in a crisis to address something that we've been raising a red flag about for a long time.

[Senator Jessica Ramos, Chair, NYS Senate Labor Committee]: I I don't think any of us would want a scandal. Not the union, not the, Department of Civil Service, not OER, not the governor, certainly not the legislature. These are all preventable incidents if we just take them seriously and carry carry through. Thank you. Thank

[Assembly Member Gary Pretlow, Chair, Assembly Ways and Means Committee]: you. Assemblyman Bronson.

[Assembly Member Harry B. Bronson, Chair, Assembly Labor Committee]: Thank you, chair. It's very clear that we do not have the workforce we need to provide the services that your members provide to the citizens of New York State. We're not able to recruit people. We're not able to retain them. Having tier equity would certainly be a piece of that, right?

[Speaker 32]: But

[Assembly Member Harry B. Bronson, Chair, Assembly Labor Committee]: also, the workplace situations that we're asking people to work in is also preventing us from keeping people and bringing new people in. Randy, you and I have toured the juvenile detention center in my area industry. Could you, for the folks who I mean, we talk about these issues. Can you make it real, kind of like what Josh did with some of his members in his narrative? Make it real and describe what's going on in industry and why we're only inches away from having another docs problem.

[Unidentified legislator/interjection]: So industry is a residential treatment facility, a secure facility up in Rochester, New York, outside of Rochester. There's two facilities. One is limited secure. The other is secure. That facility has seen a dramatic decrease over the years in their staffing. And as a result of that decrease, you know, the people that continue to work there were sort of hobbling together ways to serve the clientele, Oftentimes, fifteen, sixteen youth on a unit. And with raise the age, when I say youth, that ranges from 14 year olds up to 20 to 21 year olds. So I want people to understand some of the youth are not teenagers. You know, because of the lack of staffing, you have staff on units alone. You have teachers who cannot teach in classrooms. Now I will say, I give the commissioner and her team credit because they have been working diligently to try to fix some of what they inherited, but you can't fix what has been broken for so long overnight. And I think, you know, that's a big part of it. But recently, you know, it's come to light, and we had heard about this a while back, that a lot of the programming had to be suspended because they don't have physically have people there to provide the the services safely. And that's no fault of our members and that's no fault of anybody who works there. They're trying to do what's right for these young people and it breaks their heart, frankly, to not be able to do it safely. So youth, I believe now everybody is going to school and industry, but for a long time that was not possible. For a long time they had to provide the services on the unit, either in the youth's room, you know, handouts, things like that. So it was a problem.

[Assembly Member Harry B. Bronson, Chair, Assembly Labor Committee]: So So when we're talking about this, we're focusing on workforce. But the reality is our young people who need help and need programming aren't always getting it because of the workforce shortage.

[Unidentified legislator/interjection]: Workforce has ripple effects. Shortages of workplaces have ripple effects.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, NYS Senate Finance Committee]: Sorry. Thank you. Thank you. Sorry. We have Senator Rhodes.

[Senator Steve Rhoads]: Sure. Was just doing a little research. We've got to you, Madam Chair. There was actually a training bill requiring training to reduce abuse of conduct and bullying in the workplace as part of a written workplace violence prevention program, which actually passed the assembly and senate and was vetoed by the governor. When we're talking about issues that are going on specifically with respect to docs in our jails, we know that elements of HALT have made it impossible for corrections officers to keep our jails a safe environment. We know that it's direct to the point where you had a major work action, which took place last year, which we're still suffering the effects from. Dollars $535,000,000 the governor is actually putting into the budget so that she can have National Guard troops doing the jobs that corrections officers could do but won't do because they've been fired and because they're concerned for their safety. I think we have to recognize that we are part of the issue here. And we can't simply blame tier six, though I know tier six is a major issue in part of our recruitment and retention program. But when we're talking about workplace safety, which is the other component to this, we're being our own worst enemies here as well. I apologize if that's not actually a question. That's a statement. You don't actually have to agree or disagree with that. Specifically with respect to the I know. Specifically with respect to tier six, however, I did find it amusing that when I asked this question, we didn't actually know how many open positions there were in New York State among our state employees. Do any of the panelists happen to know how many unfilled positions there are?

[Speaker 32]: J. So I mean, I think it's a somewhat moving target. And I think the 10,000 number that was thrown out is not that I mean, I think it's a little higher, maybe twelve, thirteen, 14,000. But regardless if it's 10,000, 15, it's a problem. It's a it's a problem because the people that are not in those positions are not providing services that New Yorkers need. And it's whether it's the schooling at OCFS or if it's caseworkers in local government, right? I mean, these are the problems that we're facing. So the number, I think, is a little higher. But it's fairly accurate at this point.

[Senator Steve Rhoads]: But I was also surprised to hear the last panel I'm running out of time already, so I apologize. I was surprised to hear from the last panel that they didn't think that tier six was a problem in terms of recruitment. That is completely contrary to everything that I've heard. And I'm assuming that's correct from this panel as well?

[Speaker 32]: I would agree with you, yeah.

[Senator George M. Borrello]: Okay. Thank you.

[Assembly Member Gary Pretlow, Chair, Assembly Ways and Means Committee]: Assembly Member Palisano.

[Senator Tom O'Mara]: J. Yes. Good afternoon. I always look at the clock. I have to just make sure I'm saying the right thing. First, I just want to say thank you to you and all your members for what they have done for us, what they're doing for us, and will continue to do us. So I just want to say thank you for your dedicated employees who work and do a great job on behalf of the taxpayers of this state. But I want to pivot real quick now too. You mentioned safety. And in my conversation with the GORE director, that was an issue. We know about the work stoppage that took place at our correctional facilities. The GORE director was a cosigner on to the agreement between DOCS and NYSCOBA on halt reform. And I questioned him about, Why is that halt reform? Why did the governor not put it under budget? I mean, because we need statutory changes, some of this, to make it happen, to make it safe. Obviously, with what's going on in corrections and I think a lot of times people forget, or don't think about, that your members work inside our correctional facilities. And I think sometimes that gets lost, and we can't lose sight of that. When you have fewer corrections officers, your civilian staff is at risk of danger. And your members see that. Wouldn't it not be I mean, when we think about recruitment and retention, that's a major recruitment thing that would help or retention issue, to keep those who are leaving, because safety was one of the reason people left. Wouldn't that help on the recruitment side, retention side, and also keeping your other members safe if this if those changes that were that you, both CSA and PATH so it's really directed to both of you, I apologize that shouldn't we have that agreement codified in the budget to make that send a strong message to the workforce that your safety inside our corrections facilities is a priority? Would you agree that would be a wise thing to do for us?

[Speaker 32]: J. I mean, so I actually personally sat on that, the whole committee, after the work stoppage. CSCA members so we represent both civilians inside state corrections, but we also represent county correctional officers throughout the state, along with AFSCME councils and others. Our members do not mind working hard. That is what they do. That is what they're paid to do. But they want to be We thought that the recommendations that we collectively came to in our proposal are fair. They're balanced. Because it's not just about protecting the staff. Right. It is also about protecting the incarcerated individuals.

[Timothy R. Hogues, Commissioner, NYS Department of Civil Service]: Right, exactly.

[Speaker 32]: And we will continue I mean, we are continuing to have those conversations of what can we get implemented that better that make sure they are protected to the best of our ability.

[Senator Tom O'Mara]: And Randy, if you want to I know we got three seconds, but No.

[Senator Mario R. Mattera]: I mean,

[Unidentified legislator/interjection]: we were also PEPF was part of a stakeholder group and had dialogue with all various players, you know, from the advocates to docs, OER. And of course, we would like to see things in the budget. But there's also room for negotiations. And that's where we need to continue the conversation. The reality is that saved by the bells.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, NYS Senate Finance Committee]: You. Senator Burroughs.

[Senator George M. Borrello]: Thank you, madam. Thank you, madam chair. So Randy, obviously, I know that you're aware of the incident that happened at Lakeview. This is a teacher, someone who goes there to teach, could probably teach somewhere else, and was beaten within an inch of her life by an inmate with a history of violence just three weeks earlier involved in a fight within the prison. How can you I mean, you're in such a difficult position. You're in a difficult position because you have to explain to these folks that are your members that the governor is failing to keep them safe. As an employer myself, if I were to intentionally put my employees in danger, I'd be brought up on charges. But the governor just another day, what can be done to institute as soon as possible these measures? And I know I'm preaching to the choir here. I get it. But please, please explain to the folks here, the folks that are listening, the challenge that you have to be able to keep your employees safe, your members safe, because their employer is not doing it.

[Unidentified legislator/interjection]: So we support common sense reforms, things that make it safer but also a more dignified environment for all the people that are there. In the situation that occurred at Lakeview and the person did give me permission to speak of it one of the biggest concerns is the teachers in this case, a rehab counselor are locked in a classroom without an officer in the room with them. So they can't get out if something is happening. Those are some of the things that we need to address with the department, with docs.

[Assembly Member Stacey Pheffer Amato, Chair, Assembly Governmental Employees Committee]: J. And no, docs.

[Senator George M. Borrello]: J. They're not restrained either. That's the other the inmates are not restrained, people In with violent this histories.

[Unidentified legislator/interjection]: Situation, they were not. So I mean, there are some things that we believe within the current law and the current structure can be done differently. And we're going to advocate for all of the things that we think will make our members safer. And we'll continue to have those conversations.

[Senator George M. Borrello]: JOSHUA Well, thank you. And I guess, Joshua, obviously, you understand what's going on here as well. I know you're on the panel. I think these are pretty basic things to be asking of an employer, right? We want to protect the employees, that you, if for political reasons, you put them in harm's way. I mean, how do we address this? How you ensure let's face it. I was in county government for ten years. Years ago, you'd have one position open, and there'd be 50 people to apply. Now we've got thousands of positions open, because people don't want to work in these positions. And situations like this don't make it any better. How can the governor allow this to happen and not to implement those basic measures?

[Speaker 32]: J. I think in the twenty seconds I have, this idea that came up earlier was that people applying for these jobs aren't considering things like a pension. There's a balance, right? There's a balance of your salary, your benefits, and the safety on the job. And when that gets misaligned, which it has now between tier six as well as health and safety issues, it changes the dynamic of who applies.

[Senator George M. Borrello]: J. Great. Thank you.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, NYS Senate Finance Committee]: J. Thank you.

[Assembly Member Gary Pretlow, Chair, Assembly Ways and Means Committee]: J. D. Member Pfeffer Amato.

[Assembly Member Stacey Pheffer Amato, Chair, Assembly Governmental Employees Committee]: Hello. So I think a lot of these issues, I think we've all talked about, it's like a whack a mole sort of situation where which do we hit first? So I feel like recruitment and retention at the end of the day, everyone becomes a retiree. So Ms. DeStefano and former commissioner and former selling woman, I want to hit you with the benefits for our public retirees. And I think they're under siege, right? Let's talk about COLA. Just give me everything you have about COLA to understand. I remember you telling me that someone's COLA increase was $18 a month or some ridiculous amount of money.

[Speaker 18]: Yes. Thank you. And I certainly I agree with everything that my panelists have talked about

[Michael Volforti, Director, NYS Governor’s Office of Employee Relations (OER)]: Me too.

[Speaker 18]: Because I've been there in the past. So first of all, this year, the COLA did not provide for, in many cases, the increase in the health care costs. So actually, what we have been getting calls about is that their pension went down because of the premium in the health care. So retirees and active employees pay pretty much the same premium. So it's been a really tough situation because it's also happened on the Medicare side on their Social Security. We really want to protect the retiree health care from involuntary reduction because that's the other thing that's happening that across the state, local governments have attempted to transfer retirees into different health care arrangements, including Medicare Advantage plans in order to reduce costs. I think some of you who come from the City Of New York know that there was a lawsuit, and the retirees actually won the lawsuit. There's some talk that that's being changed, that something may have happened before the previous mayor left, and it might be changing. So we need to stay urgent on all of the costs that the retirees are asking to be relied upon. And we just believe that the retirees should go into their retirement after they've spent decades of service to the state of New York or local governments, City Of New York, that they have a stable environment to live in. And that's what we're fighting for.

[Assembly Member Stacey Pheffer Amato, Chair, Assembly Governmental Employees Committee]: Do you feel the I have thirty seconds. Is it the COLA on the 18,000 that's the challenge? That should be a higher number?

[Speaker 18]: Well, it nine we would like that is one of our priorities to bring the 18,000 number that the COLA is based on to 21,000. And we'd like to work with our colleagues here to make sure that we're all on the same page and advocating for the same thing.

[Assembly Member Stacey Pheffer Amato, Chair, Assembly Governmental Employees Committee]: Thank you. I appreciate that.

[Speaker 18]: Thank you.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, NYS Senate Finance Committee]: Senator Tom O'Meara.

[Senator Tom O'Mara]: Good afternoon. Thank you for your testimony, and thank you for the great work that your members do day in and day out. Roanne, you mentioned the retiree income threshold of $35,000 to return to the workforce. You know, we talk a lot about the death gamble legislation for our correction officers that we passed a couple times. But frankly, every one of your members that reaches retirement age and continues to work takes that death gamble every day, a great consequence to their spouse, to their family. So and $35,000 might not be enough to come back and continue to work for them to support themselves. You didn't mention what level you'd like to

[Speaker 18]: see We'd like it to see it thank you, Senator, We'd for asking that like to see it go to 50,000. We've been working with actually, we've been working with NICOM, NYSAC, the towns. They're all in support. So it's not like, you know, we're doing something on the state level that's going to impact some of our local governments. But we'd like to see it, and they would like to see it go to 50,000.

[Senator Tom O'Mara]: J. Anybody else have an agreement or a different number?

[Speaker 32]: J. What I'd like to say, Senator, is you know, this issue's been brought up a lot. And I think there is a very it's a balance that we have to strike of bringing and allowing retirees to come back in making a higher, you know, higher salary while also ensuring that the civil service pathway, so the jobs, the career ladder that somebody takes, are open for the next generation of employees. And so, we have always been leery of this proposal because what we don't want to have happen is somebody retires, the next day they come back staying in that same position, and that's almost blocking the we'll say the younger person, for lack of a better term, from ascending that civil service ladder. So there is an avenue to probably do this, but and the school districts have shown it. So in the budget the last couple of years, they've opened up the cap to bring people back into school districts because we have a shortage of substitute teachers, bus drivers, everything. But it's time limited. We review it every couple of years. And I think that's what we need to be looking at is what is the impact on this of the overall system, not just today, not just tomorrow, but over the next five to ten years.

[Senator Tom O'Mara]: Thank you. Roanne, you

[Speaker 14]: look like

[Speaker 18]: I you want do to add because I was just with the Association of Towns, and they actually talked about they can't get tax assessors, collectors of taxes. Somebody goes out, and I think, senator, you understand, and especially in Upstate New York, some of these jobs are people retire and they can't bring anybody back in because nobody wants the job. So I know we have to strike a balance. But in some communities, there's nobody there.

[Senator Tom O'Mara]: Thank you all.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, NYS Senate Finance Committee]: Thank you, Assemblyman.

[Assembly Member Gary Pretlow, Chair, Assembly Ways and Means Committee]: Thank you.

[Assembly Member Michael Durso]: Assemblyman Durso. Thank you, chairman. Thank you to panel for being here today. You know, we talked about a lot of things, I know I only have a couple minutes. I just want to touch on a couple of things. Obviously, talking about retirees always kind of being the pull in the budget, using it as a threat, I obviously think is unfortunate. Josh, tier six sucks. I'll just say it. As a former CSEA member and shop steward, it's terrible. But talking about that and talking about constantly talking about retention and recruitment, we understand we're having a hard time recruiting people, but we're also having a hard time retaining. Right? So when we talk about retaining, I know, especially with the municipalities and towns, counties, state, if you're tier four and under really tier four, which is really the majority of the people that are in the system now, you want to hit that magic number thirty years in, 55 years old, you could retire. But another issue with that also is you're having a hard time, like you said, recruiting people, but we're not retaining them. I was wondering what maybe your thoughts were on maybe legislation that we could put in to because once you hit that 55, right, and God forbid you go past that. You want to work till you're 58, right, but you pass away. You have a heart attack all of a sudden. Your spouse, everybody else in your family is now left without your retirement, right? They get three years of your salary or whatever it is, but then they don't so you're taking a gamble, talking about that death gamble, on staying employed, right? Would you or have you talked about in any way maybe some type of legislation, some type of system that we could put in place to have those experienced members that are making a decent salary at that point, but also be able to stay past that age without essentially giving themselves a penalty and worrying about if, God forbid, something happens to them.

[Speaker 32]: J. Haven't I mean, one, I think for retention purposes, we're competing against the state assembly with two former CSEA members up on the dais right now that have left their public sector positions for here. In reality, we haven't actually looked at that specific issue. But it is a problem. People get to that magic age, whatever it is, 55, 63 under tier six, right? 62, but

[Assembly Member Michael Durso]: Well, it's 63. Let's be honest. Everybody wants to retire.

[Speaker 32]: 100% and people are retiring because they don't want a chance that they're putting their family at a disadvantage. So I think that's a very worthy conversation, especially since we are somewhat here focused on tier six reform. I know we talk about it in very big terms, but this is a little more nuanced. But I think it's a really valuable conversation for us to have is people might retire and realize, I don't really necessarily want to be retired. They want to come back and keep doing what they're doing. And how do we allow that to happen in a way that protects them? Also addresses the issues of the civil service career ladder. But yeah.

[Assembly Member Michael Durso]: Right. Thank you.

[Michael Volforti, Director, NYS Governor’s Office of Employee Relations (OER)]: You.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, NYS Senate Finance Committee]: Senator Chris Ryan? Okay.

[Senator Sean M. Ryan]: Good afternoon. So real quick on the retiree. Senator O'Meara is not here, but I have a number. Would like to see me specifically, I'd like to see that go to 65,000. But with 6,956, I understand the balance. Just want to say, if we ever get to a point from CSEA perspective, if it we're talking about having to fund many, many, many towns, municipalities have vacant funded, We can't but if there is talk about the balance. If there ever gets to a point with the balance, we have to understand that really realistically about the possible need to pull that back if we ever get to the point. And I'm with you. People retire, come back. Let's get the next generation of workforce working. But at the same time, I do understand the balance. And I thank you for your support and advocacy of that bill. But I want to talk a little bit about another bill on the pension. Can you just your Josh, sorry. In your testimony, you discussed a twenty five year retirement for nine eleven emergency dispatchers. Can you take us in the sense of needing this bill, how important is it, and what would the impact how would that impact you?

[Speaker 32]: Yeah, Senator, thank you. CSEA represents emergency dispatchers in nearly every county across the state, but also on the state level, within the state police, Department of Environmental Conservation, Office of Parks. These are, first and foremost, first responders. They are the first point of contact when you are having the worst moment of your life. And that could be that your child has stopped breathing, you found your parent on the ground at their home. They are the ones that are going to try to keep you calm, walk you through what you can do until EMTs, the police, or fire show up. Recruiting for these jobs has gotten even more difficult than the rest of the public sector. There was a report recently that came out from SUNY New Paltz that puts the stress on dispatchers at higher levels than police and fire because they take these calls, they walk through them, and they never know the resolution. They don't know what happened. And what do they have to do immediately after they get off that call?

[Senator Sean M. Ryan]: J. Take another call. J.

[Speaker 32]: They take another call. The staffing levels are so short that they rarely have time to take that breath. So the proposal that you have put in and that we are very supportive of would grant, at an option to municipalities, the availability of a twenty five year pension for emergency dispatchers in order to show that they can take these jobs when they're 25 years old and they are not working until they're 63. They're not working for thirty eight years before they're eligible to retire because they're that stressful. So thank you for putting that in.

[Senator Sean M. Ryan]: And then we get to overtime and forced overtime with some other altogether. Yeah. Thanks.

[Assembly Member Gary Pretlow, Chair, Assembly Ways and Means Committee]: Thank you, Assemblyman Slater.

[Assembly Member Matt Slater]: Thank you very much, Chairman. I wanted to just first off thank you and all your workers for the great work that they do for us. As a former CSCA member, like my colleague Mr. Durso, very proud of that fact.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, NYS Senate Finance Committee]: He must have.

[Assembly Member Matt Slater]: But I wanted to circle back to what Mr. Terry was talking about with work zone safety. As a town supervisor, look, worst day of my life was 09/14/2022, when I had to tell a mother that her son was killed while working in a work zone. And so I greatly appreciate what has happened here with work zone cameras and our focus on that. I'd like to hear from Mr. Cherry about how we feel the implementation has been going. And then quickly, if we can, with the remaining time I have, talk about some next steps to see how we can expand the current program if it's succeeding.

[Speaker 32]: J. Death of Jay Gargara, who was a CSEA member in Yorktown, was absolutely terrible. But part of a larger string of incidents that we see of people speeding through work zones, driving recklessly without a care, without caring about the mother of that person that's there, about the wife that's going be at home or the husband that's going to be at home or the children. We have been very supportive of expanding the work zone camera program across the state. We know that people slow down in work zones for one of two reasons. They see those cherries running from a state trooper or from municipal police.

[Assembly Member Gary Pretlow, Chair, Assembly Ways and Means Committee]: Right.

[Speaker 32]: Or they see that sign that there's a camera ahead and that they're gonna get that ticket in the mail if they're exceeding the speed limit. We think we haven't seen a report in recent years, but we know that last year, the legislature, in last year's budget, expanded the number of cameras. They doubled it for the state throughway authority, Department of Transportation, and expanded it to places like the state bridge authority. That's really critical. The more cameras we have, the slower people will go through work zones. We'll be able to have more coverage.

[Senator Robert Jackson, Chair, Senate Civil Service and Pensions Committee]: Right.

[Speaker 32]: We are pro one of our asks in the testimony is to increase the amount of money that's appropriated to have state police in work zones. At the end of the day, we think the best thing is to have a police officer in every work zone. There's a practical effect that that's not possible. But if we could increase that funding by another half $1,000,000, we'd be able to get them on more of our state highways.

[Assembly Member Matt Slater]: And in my remaining time, as a former town supervisor, looking at proposals like Jake's Law that would allow local municipalities to also opt in who also want to make sure they're protecting their workers when they're just out there doing their jobs because they have to come home, too. How would you feel about expanding that program?

[Speaker 32]: J. We're fully supportive of expanding it to every municipality in the state, if possible.

[Assembly Member Matt Slater]: J. Thank you very much. Appreciate it.

[Speaker 32]: J. Thank you.

[Senator George M. Borrello]: Next

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, NYS Senate Finance Committee]: up is Senator Mattera.

[Senator Mario R. Mattera]: Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you all for being here and protecting our hardworking men and women of labor. We're talking about our retirees, how important this is, this is quick. I just want to ask you, do you think our retirees are leaving New York State to go to Tennessee, to Carolinas, Florida, Texas? Why are they leaving? Because they can't afford to be here. I have to ask that quick.

[Speaker 18]: Have 80% of our retirees still remain in New York State. But I do believe

[Senator Mario R. Mattera]: that That's

[Assembly Member Gary Pretlow, Chair, Assembly Ways and Means Committee]: good news.

[Speaker 18]: I do believe that some of it is weather. I do.

[Senator Mario R. Mattera]: Oh, do? Okay.

[Speaker 18]: Yeah. I do think some of it is weather.

[Senator Mario R. Mattera]: GREGORY And they can afford to live here.

[Speaker 18]: GREGORY Well, the affordability is also a problem. But they move for a lot of reasons affordability and making sure that their pension can go further.

[Senator Mario R. Mattera]: J. No, that's good, that 80%. I never would

[Speaker 18]: have thought It is. Moriarty: J.

[Senator Mario R. Mattera]: Good question also, too. Tier six, Tier four, where do we need to get to? We talked about Tier four as the only way that we could fix the problem so we could get good recruitment. Give me a heads up, Josh, please, about, like, you know, what we could do. I mean, we talked about this all day. I'm so glad that the commissioner is still here, and I thank you so much for still attending. That's great. You're good man. Can you give us a heads up, like, you know, what we're doing? What can we do? What can we get to back to tier four to make sure we get good recruitment?

[Speaker 32]: I I mean, you know, we have put the proposals out the last several years. I don't think they're new to anybody. Right? Lowering contributions, that's a big deal. Paying you know, as you progress in your career and you make more money and you take that promotion, you pay more into your pension, whereas tier four was you stop paying after after ten years. This is important. This is an affordability issue. You could put money in people's pocket on day one if you lower contributions to 3%. And for those of people that are paying 3% currently, it stops them from paying it in the future. So we're it's an insurance policy for everybody.

[Senator Mario R. Mattera]: So just the testing also to the civil service test, what do we need to do to help the commissioner and to help New York State to realize that this testing with the civil service test has to be revamped? We know the situation, especially people losing their jobs because if they have a lower test score, just like forty four seconds. You heard me say that question before. I was just wondering, what could we do to help this all along?

[Assembly Member Matt Slater]: Did you want take No, if you

[Unidentified legislator/interjection]: want to take it, Randy. No, I mean, I think a lot of the initiatives and the transformation for civil service was well intended. I think that we needed it on an emergency basis back then. But I also think we we need to figure out how to fast track some of what we've said we were gonna do.

[Senator Mario R. Mattera]: Because we're losing people. They're the other. They passed the test. And three months later, four months later, they have

[Unidentified legislator/interjection]: There's no a reduction in the number of tests that have been given, and we haven't modernized the testing to make this a reality right now.

[Senator Mario R. Mattera]: Well, have a commissioner right there that wants to sit down and see what we've to do to fix this, please. And you guys are the ones to do that. Thank you. Thanks for all your help.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, NYS Senate Finance Committee]: Thank you.

[Assembly Member Gary Pretlow, Chair, Assembly Ways and Means Committee]: Good

[Assembly Member Jodi Giglio]: afternoon. Thank you all for being here today. My question for you is, we've said that we have

[Senator Jessica Ramos, Chair, NYS Senate Labor Committee]: a shortage of 12,000

[Assembly Member Jodi Giglio]: to 14,000 workers. We estimate, you know, somewhere between 10,014. And the Department of Labor commissioner here was before. Our unemployment insurance rates have gone from 4.4% to 4.6%. Is there a nexus? Because I have been in my spare time, I go Department of Labor website all the time. And I just went on and typed in civil service positions or corrections positions. And there just doesn't seem to be a nexus on the Department of Labor website for people that are unemployed or a direction for people that are unemployed as to where they can go within the state agencies and find jobs. So can you tell me what we could do better to create a better nexus between people that are collecting unemployment. Maybe we can subsidize the salaries if we can't get tier six fixed right away, which we need to fix. But maybe instead of paying them unemployment, we can help with the positions to get them into those positions or get them trained for those positions.

[Speaker 32]: J. Mean, I think the legislature and governor have focused on this a bit over not a bit, a lot over the last few years is promoting the opportunities. The opportunities from your district on Long Island all the way to Buffalo into the North Country, they're there. There are jobs available for people to work. You could if you want to apply today for a job in an OMH facility or OPWDD and you have the skill set and you meet the minimum qualifications, you're you can work. Right? You can you can start working. So how do we promote these opportunities? And we've done legislation that requires them to broadcast it on a on a larger basis. I mean, they do I know we get weekly emails now. They send them to community based organizations. We need to keep amplifying that message, though. I think we need to amplify that these positions are available and that they're not in some you know, up in Albany. They're not at the seat of state government. They're in your community. Not even to talk about all the municipal jobs that are available as well.

[Assembly Member Jodi Giglio]: I typed in my zip code. And very few job opportunities came up. So I'm just wondering if we could do something better with Department of Labor to create a nexus and really a requirement for people that are on unemployment. I remember thirty years ago when I was on unemployment, I was on unemployment for two weeks because I had to show up at the unemployment office every morning at 7AM and show them where I applied for a job the day before and the newspaper ads. And I just feel like there needs to be a better nexus between the Department of Labor website and the positions that you're looking for because I think that you could probably fill a lot of those positions with people that are on unemployment and that want to work. Because on unemployment, they're making less than what they could make filling the positions that you have open.

[Unidentified legislator/interjection]: I mean, all I would say is with my seven seconds is the Department of Labor has 28% less staff than they had just a few years ago. If you want resources for members in your community, you need the resources at the state agency.

[Assembly Member Jodi Giglio]: Thank you.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, NYS Senate Finance Committee]: Senator Jackson.

[Senator Robert Jackson, Chair, Senate Civil Service and Pensions Committee]: Thank you. So I was viewing the testimony from the members' lounge. I had to get something to eat, haven't eaten all day. But I have a question for Keith. OER says that they don't know about pay equity and benefits in equities. And have you, as a union representative, have you touched base with the OER, the Office of Employee Relations, about making sure that salary for OMSI employees is higher than the people that you supervise?

[Heath Morrison, Executive Director, NYS Organization of Management Confidential Employees (OMCE)]: That's a great question. Thank you. Well, would introduce 10 bills if we didn't have a negative reaction from OER as far as the pay increases and inequities in that. So our bills, a lot of them, most of them, eight out of the 10, are fiscal bills because of the inequities exist. There's two attachments to my written testimony where the graph shows discrepancies in salaries. And a lot of these are caused by well, it actually started back in 2009 when pay increases were withheld to MC employees for over a year. But also, two, MCs don't have a higher ed differential, okay? Only raise 70 and below qualify for longevity. The MCs do not get overtime. Okay. And, you know, so when you add all of those together, okay, there's a huge discrepancy. That doesn't even factor in geographical pay differentials either. Okay? So everybody is a little bit different. So as far as the salaries for MC employees, there's a huge discrepancy that exists. Not at every single grade, I don't want to say that, but there are certain specific grades and titles where MCs do make less than J. Their union

[Senator Robert Jackson, Chair, Senate Civil Service and Pensions Committee]: think that that's where you have to get in there and make it happen with respect they need to know. Just like I've said, Tier six sucks. I mean, what does that mean? It means it's not the best. And we need to try to get something better. And so don't be afraid to say that, though. Do you know? Randy, the commissioner mentioned that it's the first testing site that's open January, testing February 28, four more sites. And you said that you would like to visit with Tim. Would think that

[Senator Jessica Ramos, Chair, NYS Senate Labor Committee]: Dicoptip? J.

[Senator Robert Jackson, Chair, Senate Civil Service and Pensions Committee]: To arrange visitation for the sites would be very helpful, especially if you take some pictures and put it in our weekly updates and people know that. And so they want to say, well, I would like to go see it. And then they sign up. So I would like to arrange that with you and anyone else together, Okay? Thank you.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, NYS Senate Finance Committee]: Thank you.

[Assembly Member Gary Pretlow, Chair, Assembly Ways and Means Committee]: Assemblywoman Simon. I do have another one.

[Assembly Member Jo Anne Simon]: Thank you. I think both Mr. Terry and Mr. Antonio talked about the testing centers, right? And I am not as familiar with that. But a couple of the questions, they are not giving the the testing. The testing centers are not open or at least not enough of them. And there is a problem with the tests themselves. What about the tests means they are flawed, right? You know, in tests and measurement there are a lot of tests given out there, not civil service tests but other tests and they are often not validated for the purpose for which they are being given. Most of them are invalidated. Civil service tests, a lot of them have been probably more validated than others, but work has changed. So I'm curious what the flaws are in those tests and how we can address those issues.

[Unidentified legislator/interjection]: So a couple of things. One, I know we've talked about the testing centers and we appreciated the money that was put in. We think that's a great thing. I, as I said, haven't seen them. Just heard they recently opened. Not sure where they are or who's being tested at them. As far as some of the initiatives that we have seen moving forward, a lot of the tests are being moved to training and experience. And we know that a resume or writing out your job experiences and skills is not the same as a test that has psychometric measurements. And part of the tenants of civil service is that we don't just give jobs to people who look good on paper and, you know, that those tests should be a measure that's unbiased. And frankly, going to T and Es, there's a big difference going to a T and E with someone who's already licensed. They've gone through a vetting process. I'm a social worker. The commissioner mentioned social workers. We go through a licensing procedure. That's a different process than just hiring someone off the street for whatever position that doesn't require it. We don't support broad scale training and experience exams because we don't think it meets the constitutional requirement in the state for merit and fitness. And so that's a concern.

[Assembly Member Jo Anne Simon]: Well, that's the training and experience approach. But you've also talked about the tests being problematic. Right? And the training and experience is not a test. Right? At least that's the way I read your testimony, so maybe I'm misunderstanding.

[Unidentified legislator/interjection]: I can you tell me exactly where you're looking because that's

[Assembly Member Jo Anne Simon]: Okay. Well, let's see now here.

[Unidentified legislator/interjection]: I mean, the tests are problem from what we've heard is that they haven't been offering them. That's the definite issue.

[Assembly Member Jo Anne Simon]: Well, that's obviously Yeah.

[Unidentified legislator/interjection]: Not when the tests have been offered, we have not gotten a whole lot of negative feedback about the actual test. I mean, the time it takes to score them, the time it takes to get back to you, all of those things are problematic.

[Assembly Member Jo Anne Simon]: Okay. Well, we'll have to follow-up on that.

[Unidentified legislator/interjection]: I might follow-up have

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, NYS Senate Finance Committee]: because it's confusing. Thank you. We'll have to follow-up afterwards.

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: Sorry.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, NYS Senate Finance Committee]: That's Okay. We have one more senator, Senator Rawlinson.

[Senator Rob Rolison]: JULIE Thank you, Madam Chair. And thank you all for being here. And always express my gratitude to your membership for the work that they're doing. Roann, to the Retired Public Employees Association. Thank you as well as being a retired public employee myself. And most of my colleagues were talking about some of their union bonfides, and I was a twenty seven year member, a twenty six year member of the town of Kipsey Police Union, two stints as PBA president, and then I did a year with the Teamsters many years ago. And I just wanted to put that on the record. But when we're talking about the cap, it's come up from several of my colleagues here, and the issues that, Joshua, that you talked about, how there's got to be a balance. And I want to say, if there was ever a group that I saw recently here that could probably strike a balance, it is this group in front of us here this afternoon. And not wanting to inhibit bringing people in, but at the same time giving individuals who still want to continue to work in service that opportunity to do that. What concerns me on the cap, and I hear this all the time from police officers in my district and outside of my district, is that many part time agencies are hiring retired police officers. You know, they bring some in, they send them to school, they could be younger, you know, younger individuals, but the majority are retired cops. And they reach that cap, and then they have to stop working, which impacts the public safety of that community, and you know this. Right? I mean, you're hearing this as well. Can you in a minute and eighteen seconds here, Rowan, where where where do you think this disconnect is with whomever is saying we can't raise the cap? And I'm not saying we have to have a carve out for cops, but maybe we do because public safety is a priority. And I I can't figure it out because no one can really explain it to me where this thing is getting jammed up.

[Speaker 18]: Well, I I do agree that we need to bring new people into government. But it's where you're talking about in the communities where we've heard it from the local government organizations that they don't have the people. And so we are supporting the increase from 35,000 to 50,000 because they literally can't find people. Somebody walks out the door, they can't find somebody to do the job.

[Senator Rob Rolison]: Right. But why is it stalling out? We're I mean, we pass it in in our house, and and we don't really hear about it again. I mean, again, I'm you know what? You don't have to answer that because that that would not be fair to you. But again, I just want to end with this and with the rest of the group there. Thank you. And I really appreciate it.

[Timothy R. Hogues, Commissioner, NYS Department of Civil Service]: And in

[Speaker 18]: the eight seconds, we will work with this group to really come together on an agreed, any bill that we're talking about here.

[Senator Rob Rolison]: J. Thanks, Steven. Thank you. Barros.

[Assembly Member Alex Bores]: J. Thank you all for being here. I think this question's for everyone, but I'd love to start with PEPF. Last year in the budget, there was an allocation for rolling out AI training for state employees through ITS. I'd just love an update on how that's going.

[Unidentified legislator/interjection]: So I will have to check on that. I know we've struggled for years to get them to spend the money. I think they've spent a little bit, but not to the extent that we would like to see. We're still hearing our workforce isn't up to speed, but we're not seeing sort of that similar level of training commensurate with that. I can check on the exact numbers because hopefully it has changed, but that's not what I've heard recently.

[Assembly Member Alex Bores]: That was what I was worried about. Anyone else, any experience there to comment? Great. Okay. Well, let's follow-up and let's make sure we get there because this is moving very quickly and we don't have time to move at the typical speed of government. So this question, also for Path. There's language in this year's budget proposal around body scanners at OCFS facilities. And obviously, we want to balance privacy concerns and the environment with the safety of workers. Could you

[Senator Tom O'Mara]: just talk a little bit about that

[Assembly Member Alex Bores]: provision, the importance of it, what what Yeah.

[Unidentified legislator/interjection]: So we have had a number of situations in OCFS in particular, but also in other OA agencies forensic facilities where both the people who live there, possibly people visiting and others, are bringing in non metal types of weaponry and they're not detectable. And we've had a number of people assaulted, people transfer from other facilities, and they're bringing in basically ceramic plastic, things that they've homemade weapons out of. And this these type of devices would prohibit that and detect that, So that's something we think would be helpful. The other piece of that ask was for emergency communication devices in these facilities. A lot of them, you may have been to, they're old, they're a lot of concrete, a lot of the GPS enabled devices, we don't have those. We have like older equipment. We need things that somebody can know where somebody is, communicate quickly and get there to be safe. So those are the two asks that we think would be helpful, particularly when we're dealing with such staffing concerns.

[Speaker 32]: Emily, do you mind if I

[Senator Mario R. Mattera]: just Please,

[Speaker 32]: take you back on that? We we're working with PEPF on this issue. So we support the body scanners at OCFS, we also support an expansion to the other agencies into OMH, as well as o OPWDD, not the group homes, but the bigger facilities that are that are remaining. There are contraband issues at all of these locations. And we've shown that the body scanners are not dangerous. They don't present a health risk, unless you go through it a couple thousand times in a day. And so this is really important for the health and safety and something we can do today to help change that culture.

[Assembly Member Alex Bores]: J. Thank you. J.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, NYS Senate Finance Committee]: Oh, thank you. So I'm not going to ask questions. I'm going to urge that on behalf of the 500,000 retirees of New York State, 250,000, I believe, retirees in New York City alone, which as you pointed out earlier, already went through this insane situation for several years trying to take away their health benefits as retirees and the state absolutely has been looking down the same road and some of the other proposals of the Governor including the Irma issue do the same thing. That's not even counting existing workers, that's the future retirees plus the 750,000 we know there are. There's not one New Yorker who doesn't have family who's impacted. I'm guaranteeing if I just say today, how many of you have family who are retirees of the state or city of New York? All right. My husband was a city university professor for forty years. His sister was a Suffolk County Public School Teacher for thirty five years. Everybody is being hacked. And frankly, labor has to coordinate to make the same demand everywhere. Because your power to do something if you're all together is amazing. And we had a health hearing here, I forget which day now because I live in this room, where labor was in a debate about what we should be doing about lowering health care costs for workers. Because that in fact is the biggest growth factor in the benefits costs for workers and retirees. And there are plenty of unions who will say, even when I negotiate increases, they never get an increase in salary because it goes directly into the increased health care costs. The buying power of the workers and the retirees of New York State is probably more significant than anything but the federal government. And we need to work together, labor and government, to demand a better deal for health care costs. Because our health care costs are something like three times higher than anywhere else in the country. And we're not getting better health care. It's just more expensive. So that's my closing suggestion as opposed to a question. J. Oh, thank you.

[Senator Steve Rhoads]: Moriarty.

[Assembly Member Gary Pretlow, Chair, Assembly Ways and Means Committee]: You, Zinerman. I J. Don't have any questions either, but I do want to thank you all for everything that you do. And always make sure that you have retirees on the executive committees of every union, because it's been known to happen where the new guys sell out the old guys. We don't want that to happen. So always make sure you have retirees that are negotiating for you, because it's easy to say, well, we'll let the retirees pay more, blah, blah, blah. And assemblywoman DeStefano, I'm holding down the class of 'ninety two for you. We were classmates way back in the not that long ago, last week, right? You did a great job. And you did a great job as an assemblywoman and then OGS commissioner. And now you're the president of the Retiree. So congratulations on that.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, NYS Senate Finance Committee]: J. Page she mentioned to me, just FYI. You can't get public service out of your blood, you know? So thank you all very much for being with us today. Because we are now a half hour into the housing hearing, I'm going to ask Panel B and Panel C to come up together. And number nine had already excused themselves. So UAW Local four thousand one hundred, New York State Educators Workforce Development Hub, ALIGN, Alliance for Greater New York, and National Employment Lawyers Association, if you'd all please come down together. We each get the three minutes and you each get the three minutes. We're just cutting a little time by putting you at the tables together. Thank you. And everybody who's waiting patiently for housing, we will probably take about a ten minute break after we finish this final panel just for some people to stretch their legs. And then we will go right into housing. Thank you. Well, maybe we've actually lost some people already. They took the closing time literally. Oh, wait, one more coming down. Good. Thank you.

[Speaker 18]: Okay.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, NYS Senate Finance Committee]: Thank you. Are you also coming down, sir? You're just going back there. No problem. Okay. Oh, you are coming down. Oh, you're aligned? Okay. Okay, fine, fine, fine. No problem. Thank you.

[Senator Rob Rolison]: Okay.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, NYS Senate Finance Committee]: Good afternoon. And we're going to just take you in the order you were on the piece of paper, even though we've blended your panels. So we'll start with UAW Local four thousand one hundred, Andrew Little. Hi.

[Andrew Little, President, UAW Local 4100]: ANDREW Thank you, Chair Krueger, Chair Pretlow, and all the members of the legislature and staff. My name is Andrew Little. I am the president of UAW Local four-one hundred, which represents nearly 3,000 postdoctoral researchers at Columbia, Mount Sinai, and Weill Cornell Medicine. UAW represents more than 120,000 higher ed workers across the country, and we are part of a national movement fighting to kill the federal cuts to scientific research. Our members are early career researchers working in diverse fields, many developing life saving treatments for disorders like cancer, Alzheimer's, heart disease, diabetes, and HIVAIDS, all while training the next generation of scientists. As unionized researchers, we are extremely concerned by the federal government's attacks on science. Close to $300,000,000 was cut from New York in 2025, disrupting more than 1,400 grants. Labs and institutions have already held waves of layoffs and shut down important projects. These attacks have severely impacted the workforce development, training, and fellowships necessary for researchers to start their own labs once they finish their training. Many of these grants supported scientists from groups that are underrepresented in biomedical research. And as other states work to address this crisis, New York is at risk of falling behind. California is moving forward with a $23,000,000,000 investment in biomedical research. Massachusetts has the DRIVE Initiative, which would add $400,000,000 this year to advance lifesaving cures, and the Texas Cancer Prevention and Research Institute is a $6,000,000,000 initiative. These cuts are causing a brain drain that threatens New York scientific leadership. Last March, a national survey showed that seventy five percent of researchers were considering leaving the country. Researchers who leave are unlikely to return. They will seek more secure positions where they can advance their work, And the economic growth and trials associated with their discoveries will benefit people in those places instead of New Yorkers. I want to emphasize that every dollar invested in funding for research and training generates more than $2 in economic activity. This occurs not only through the commercialization of discoveries, but also by sustaining jobs at major academic centers and hospitals and their surrounding areas. This will all stall if these funds remain in jeopardy. The solution is clear, and we're grateful that Governor Hochul has recognized the importance of research with the Bolstering Biotech Initiative. But to ensure that the parts of the research pipeline directly impacted by federal instability are supported, an additional $100,000,000 is needed. As UAW members and researchers, we urge you to make this funding a priority so we can stay in New York and continue to drive economic growth, innovation, and life saving medical breakthroughs here. Thank you.

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: Thank you very much.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, NYS Senate Finance Committee]: Hello. And you are Colleen McDonald.

[Speaker 36]: Chairs, ranking members, and members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to testify today. New York's child serving workforce crisis is no longer a challenge confined to classrooms and childcare centers. It is a statewide workforce economic issue, one that directly constrains participation, reduces productivity, and undermines the return on our public investments in both education and human services. New York data is clear. More than 16,500 children were unable last year alone to attend their child care due to staffing shortages. 56% of child care centers experience staffing shortages, and 83% of districts report shortages in special education preschool services. More than one in five teachers in high poverty schools is not teaching in their certification area, And one third of the workforce is eligible to retire in five years. These numbers tell a clear story. This is not a temporary disruption. It is a systemic labor market failure at scale. And it carries real economic consequences. When child care programs in schools lack qualified staff, parents reduce their work hours or leave the workforce altogether. Employers lose, economies weaken, and public investments fail to deliver their full return. Ultimately, leaving the next generation underprepared as the future workforce that our traditional and our emerging industries need. In effect, instability in the child serving workforce has become a hidden tax on New York's economy, one we are already paying through costly crisis response, which only will grow more expensive without action. Therefore, we respectfully ask and urge the legislature to appropriate $50,000,000 in the twenty six-twenty seven state budget to support the child serving workforce with expansion of registered apprenticeship programs, strategic retention models, streamlined credentialing, statewide technical assistance, and an intermediary model to engage employers across all 10 economic regions from the largest urban to the smallest rural. This is not a short term fix. It is long term workforce infrastructure just as essential as transportation and broadband. And we know these strategies work. Each childcare provider or educator we stabilize supports dozens of families and enables hundreds of work hours by those family members compounding the economic benefit. New York is positioned to scale this solution through Ed Hub New York, which is leading a statewide coalition since 2020, has bridged labor education and child serving systems.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, NYS Senate Finance Committee]: Thank you. And the next is from Align. Theodore Moore.

[Theodore A. Moore, Executive Director, ALIGN]: All right. Good afternoon. My name is Theodore Moore, the executive director of Align. Align is a longstanding alliance of labor and community organizations. Last year, the Warehouse Worker Injury Reduction Act, the Retail Worker Safety Act, and other hard won workplace safety reforms went into effect. The Retail Workers Safety Act addresses escalating violence and harassment facing frontline retail workers. The Warehouse Worker Injury Reduction Act tackles high injury in logistics facilities. The Department of Labor plays a central role not only in enforcing these aforementioned laws and investigating workplace complaints, safety complaints, but also holds a variety of other important responsibilities such as protecting immigrant workers and and low wage workers, supporting workforce development, job placement. Align urges the legislature to fully fund and fully implement worker protection laws that are already law, including the warehouse worker injury protection act and the retail worker safety act. We also want to ensure that the Department of Labor has staffing and enforcement capacity necessary to keep workers safe across New York state. Obviously, we understand that New York faces serious fiscal pressures, but the budget gap should not be balanced on the backs of working working families and not by underfunding enforcement. There are responsible revenue options that both generate resources and advance equity. First is the implementation of progressive income tax structures. New York's tax system has become less progressive over time even as an income inequality has deepened across the state. A modest increase on ultra high owner earners would raise substantial revenue, recurring revenue, reduce structural deficits, protect investments in labor enforcement and worker protections. Secondly, we want to see the full implementation of cap the cap and invest program. The CLCPA commits New York to bold climate action. Climate policy and labor policy are not separate conversations. A well designed cap and invest program can strengthen both worker protections and economic opportunity, particularly in revenues, are directed toward union jobs, apprenticeship pathways, and high road employers. Delaying or weakening implementation delaying or or or weakening implementation would forego critical revenue and slow job creation. So just to summarize, the legislature has a courageous has taken courageous steps to protect workers. Now it's time to match those commitments with funding. We respectfully urge that, these committees fully fund the DOL enforcement and implementation of new worker safety laws, invest in staffing and sector specific enforcement capacity, enact progressive revenue measures, including more progressive tax revenue, and fully implement cap and invest.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, NYS Senate Finance Committee]: Thank you. And our last is the Hugh Barron, board member co chair, National Employment Lawyers Association.

[Hugh Barron, Board Member Co‑Chair, NELA NY]: HUE Thank you, and good afternoon. My name is Hugh Barron. I'm a board member of NELA New York, the National Employment Lawyers Association New York affiliate and a partner at Katzbank's Cuman workers' rights law firm. We are in a moment of unprecedented crisis for Latino and immigrant workers. A well founded fear of Trump's secret police force, ICE, deportation, and other retaliation is preventing many of those workers from speaking out against wage theft and other workplace violations. And even before ICE's mass deportation campaign began, wage theft was already a growing crisis. Recent data estimates that corporations steal between 1 and 3,000,000,000 in wages from New York workers every year. The State Department of Labor's recovery of $35,000,000 in stolen wages in 2025 is a tiny drop in the bucket of all the New York wage theft. The department, as commissioner Reardon testified in 2024 and again today, will simply never have the resources to combat $1 to $3,000,000,000 in wage theft. Federal enforcement has been deprioritized and cut to the bone. And as of 2023, DOL only had 129 labor standards investigators. In 1966, for a comparison, it had 300 investigators covering a much smaller workforce. Meanwhile, the expansion of forced arbitration provisions with class action waivers have privatized the judicial system in favor of unscrupulous bosses, denying at least 80% of private sector nonunion workers the right to collectively enforce their rights in court. This creates an uneven playing field and undercuts the traditional tools of private enforcement on which workers have always depended. At this moment, the Empire Worker Protection Act, a four two seven eight Simon, and formerly s four four eight c, Hoylman Siegel, is the exact solution the legislature can use to fix these problems. It can easily be inserted into the legislature's one house budgets. This widely supported legislation with over 60 sponsors in the assembly and over 30 sponsors in the senate would expand public enforcement of wage theft and other worker protections. And a new report released today by the Center for Popular Democracy shows that the Empire Act will generate two eleven million dollars in annual average revenue for the DOL. That's $2,100,000,000 over ten years. That is a permanent revenue stream for the department's enforcement efforts. Empire allows a worker whistleblower or union to bring public enforcement actions and represent the state to pursue all wage theft violations in a workplace. And unions can bring these actions without naming the workers affected by violations in the complaint, a huge protection for immigrant workers. Cases and penalties that are recovered are split 40% to workers and 60% to the state. Empire is long overdue.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, NYS Senate Finance Committee]: Okay. Sorry. Thank you very much. Senator Ramos, do you have questions? Sure. Thank you.

[Senator Jessica Ramos, Chair, NYS Senate Labor Committee]: Okay. Well, good afternoon. Thank you so much for being here to talk about all of these wonderful issues from wage theft through all of the laws that we've been able to write together. And of course, universal child care and the issues that are important to the postdocs. You know, it's hard to ask questions when I agree with the points that have been made. And so many of us up here have really been pushing for universal child care this year. I'm very curious, since I know less about the New York State Educator Workforce Development Hub, if you could expand a little bit on your budget ask this year, and what type of retention models and workforce programs that money would cover.

[Assembly Member Stacey Pheffer Amato, Chair, Assembly Governmental Employees Committee]: Thank you, Barry.

[Senator Jessica Ramos, Chair, NYS Senate Labor Committee]: And yes, child care should be kind of like a utility.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, NYS Senate Finance Committee]: It's a sweet spot. You got it.

[Speaker 36]: Thank you very much for the question. So the New York State Workforce Development Hub was created under an apprenticeship Building America grant in the first round from the federal government. And our fiscal agent has been the New York State United Teachers Education and Learning Trust. And so the hub has been doing this work to create a pathway for people who want to come into child serving careers. We expanded to include child care, child care assistant. We actually worked with the Department of Labor to create the child care administrator title. We do it through registered apprenticeships because we're finding that the barriers for people coming into the careers and serving children is a lot around they have to work. And they have to have a paid job while they're learning the new skills. And so registered apprenticeships, which is what the majority of the bill will help employers through incentives as well as support for the apprentices through tuition assistance, wraparound services, emergency services, that type of thing. We love the fact the Department of Labor looks at the whole worker and not just one aspect of them. It also is going to help with retention. That's the other side of the recruitment coin, right? So we need to have strategic staffing models that really bolster retention. Apprenticeship bolsters retention. The immersive program and coming out with low cost or low debt or no cost is really important. So it's going to do all those things, as well as hopefully address some streamlined credentialing that could also reduce costs for career changers. And we've created what's called a new, which is an association for a new educator workforce that acts as an intermediary. And I'm sure many of you are familiar with MACNE and what MACNE does for machine shops around Central New York. ANEW will do for education agencies and child care providers statewide.

[Assembly Member Gary Pretlow, Chair, Assembly Ways and Means Committee]: JOSHUA Thank you. Osamu Minnow Bronson?

[Assembly Member Harry B. Bronson, Chair, Assembly Labor Committee]: JOSHUA Thank you, chair. I only have three minutes. So first of all, Mr. Little, I agree with you 100%. Need to be investing in research and science and to counter to some degree what's happening at the federal level. So thank you. Theodore, thank you for all your work we've done together in connection with workplace safety. And now we have to make sure that we enforce that. And so I'm going to turn my question, though, to Hugh, who is talking about the Empire Act. And my specific question, if you could only take a minute so I can then get to Colleen, could you expand so people know this has already been happening in California in the Private Attorney General's Act. Could you say what the benefit of what's happened in California and how we could apply that here in New York State?

[Speaker 34]: J. Absolutely. So California has had this law on the books since 2004, and use of it really accelerated in the last fifteen years. It's called the Private Attorneys General Act. And over time, the revenues it has generated hundreds of millions of dollars in revenues annually, as high most recently in 2024 as $194,000,000 in revenue for the state of California. I can't say enough as I just was at a conference of workers' rights attorneys. And the difference in the landscape in California where PAGA is the law in terms of what people can enforce in terms of workplace rights is extraordinary. Arbitration provisions and class action waivers do not pose the same barriers to enforcement that they do increasingly here. And the benefits for workers are tremendous. Hundreds of millions of dollars in wages recovered, as well as the benefits for the state. The state of California has been able to expand civil service staffing. And the Department of Labor has been able to expand new programs, new strategic initiatives to root out wage theft before it happens, and to better enforce health and safety standards like the Warehouse Worker Protection Act.

[Assembly Member Harry B. Bronson, Chair, Assembly Labor Committee]: All right. Thank you, Hugh. I've got to get to Colleen. I only have a few more minutes. Could you expand a little bit? You have great answers to Senator Ramos. It's a $50,000,000 ask in the budget. And we're going to apply the benefits of the apprenticeship model to education. Can you expand a little bit on why that's going to help us fill the pipeline in our workforce issues?

[Speaker 36]: Absolutely. So one of the reasons we are looking at it in its entirety from birth through high school graduation is that teachers don't just grow on trees, right? And developing them from and leveraging community assets, people in the community or under skilled or underemployed people within the school community is really helpful. So what we've done is worked with Department of Labor to create almost stackable credentials so that you can enter as a high school student and be in a CTE program for child care or teacher assistant. And with tuition support and wraparound support, you can then be supported to become a child care administrator, a teacher assistant, a teacher, even a school building leader.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, NYS Senate Finance Committee]: So much, Colleen. Let's see. Senator Mattera.

[Senator Mario R. Mattera]: Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you so much for all of you guys, what you do. We know he's talking about the corruption. That's what's happening with wage theft all over the place. Somebody that came from the trades, went after the bad guy, always with the district attorney's office. We did something that was so important that was history in the making, writing the governor's budget with the project labor agreement for all SUNY campuses, anything over $10,000,000 which I was upset about there was a threshold number. But do you think right now we're trying to do something right now in the National Suffolk County with public schools with the corruption that's going on? How do you feel about Project Labor agreements on all public works? Is that going to fix the corruption?

[Speaker 34]: J. Well, to you know, we don't J.

[Senator Mario R. Mattera]: I know it will, but I want you to

[Speaker 34]: answer I mean, don't have a position as NELA personally. I'm in favor of them. With respect to the Empire Act and rooting out wage theft, it applies to private sector employers exclusively and is really that is really where we see the bulk of the wage theft. It is very widespread in the construction industry, absolutely. And a lot of the construction unions support this bill for that very reason. J.

[Senator Mario R. Mattera]: Right. So again, we know that right now

[Timothy R. Hogues, Commissioner, NYS Department of Civil Service]: the

[Senator Mario R. Mattera]: corruption backbone the construction industry is the backbone of the economy. We all know that. And right now, this is something that's been a problem. We have out of state workers coming in here. We have in other words, taking right, what do they do? They take the money and they go to the states. And the money, the revenue is not here New York State. The apprenticeship programs are so important because that offsets the price of the job when you do have an indentured apprenticeship program. And when these contractors don't have an apprenticeship program, that just raises the number and guess what happens? That's not happening. And so that's why I feel that we're just talking about the project labor agreements for all of these projects is, again, so very, very important. Somebody that in other words, you're a litigator, right? Right? Yes. Somebody important that, yeah, again, you like this because, obviously, you have, you know, people coming to you. But this is something that we're trying to make sure that the workers are going to be getting paid and then local jobs for local people. So that's what I was just asking about that. Just appreciate what all you guys do. Thank you so much.

[Assembly Member Gary Pretlow, Chair, Assembly Ways and Means Committee]: Good

[Assembly Member Stefani Zinerman]: afternoon. Thank you, chair. We've had a lot of conversation today about wage theft. We've talked about the resources that the Department of Labor does not have. I always like to be a part of a hearing where people who are testifying actually come with solutions. So I thank you all for including those in your testimony. I think the first question that I want to ask is we we want we want to help protect workers. We're all here to do that. But what I haven't heard is how we are giving them the information about the dangers that they are in and the scope of what the issue is so that they can start helping us advocate for what's happening. Yes. We must do our part. You must do your part. But how can we put together some joint messaging so that people are understanding just how pervasive pervasive this issue is? Because most people believe it's only happening to them. And most people feel very ashamed that this is happening to them, so they usually don't tell until it becomes out of control. So if we could talk a little bit about that. And then I have one more question.

[Speaker 14]: Sure. 100% agree. And I think there could be a lot done in the prevention area. And I think that's another area where we can be giving more money to the Department of Labor to actually expand on their outreach programs to actually be doing more community work on the ground, which is quite frankly what they don't have the capacity to do get out this information so that people don't become victims.

[Assembly Member Stefani Zinerman]: So are we giving you the money so you all can do it in your respective? I'm glad that everybody wants to give DOL money, but you don't want any money

[Speaker 14]: J. Happy to support. I politely decline. J.

[Speaker 34]: One thing I just want to add, though, on what you said. Think it's exactly right that it often really takes one person stepping forward, right, and going to an attorney or going to an organizer and getting connected and learning their rights. And that is why this principle of having class actions has been important. It's why because those are now being stomped out by corporations, right, with forced arbitration provisions, having public enforcement actions where one worker can bring the action or a union can bring the action and pursue all the violations in the workplace, right? That's the kind of thing DOL does, right? It does a wall to wall investigation, a wall to wall audit. And that's what a worker in these actions would be able to do. And it's a very powerful thing.

[Assembly Member Stefani Zinerman]: Thank you. I just want to say that it is egregious what our president has done to any intellectual pursuit. But I do want to ask you quickly, how do we get, as we deal with that issue, how do we get more people from communities like ours, like mine in Central Brooklyn, into the pipeline? And how are you using CUNY schools to and SUNY schools to make that happen?

[Speaker 33]: That's a great question.

[Assembly Member Stefani Zinerman]: J. That you will send me an email.

[Speaker 33]: Morinello: can send you an

[Assembly Member Gary Pretlow, Chair, Assembly Ways and Means Committee]: email about that, yes.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, NYS Senate Finance Committee]: You. J.

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: Thank you

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, NYS Senate Finance Committee]: very much. I J. Think we're done, unless you tell me differently.

[Assembly Member Gary Pretlow, Chair, Assembly Ways and Means Committee]: J. No, we're not done.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, NYS Senate Finance Committee]: J. We're not done. There A you go.

[Assembly Member Gary Pretlow, Chair, Assembly Ways and Means Committee]: Silver woman's Simon. J. MELISSA: To close.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, NYS Senate Finance Committee]: J. No,

[Assembly Member Gary Pretlow, Chair, Assembly Ways and Means Committee]: the floor bar just was in, you know.

[Assembly Member Jo Anne Simon]: J. There we go. I was trying to find the microphone. So thank you all for your testimony. And I appreciate the concerns that have been raised with regard to the work that you do and also fascinated by the Ed Hub work that you're doing. I think it's a great idea. I am going to try to focus on the wage theft issue as well because one of the things I asked the commissioner earlier was if we're not collecting the penalties, the employers are going to continue to not pay the workers, right? So they're going to keep stealing the work. So they're getting the work. They're not paying for it. But we're not doing anything to collect those penalties. And these are laws that are already in existence. And you talked about three laws that you guys had worked on. And it's also child labor, farm labor, retaliation provisions, nursing mothers, other safety and health laws that we're not enforcing because we don't have the staffing to enforce it. And so if you could tell me a

[Unidentified legislator/interjection]: little bit more,

[Assembly Member Jo Anne Simon]: Hugh, about who actually can step into the shoes of the Department of Labor to enforce this so that people understand what it's about and who can actually bring those actions.

[Speaker 34]: J. Yes. And just to even add on, it's not only that they don't collect the civil penalties. The Department of Labor actually limits its look back period to the last three years. And they don't collect liquidated damages as policy. The labor law, you're entitled to 100% of your liquidated damages. Those are essentially waived by the DOL in their enforcement. So that's money on the table. And you're right, there's no cost to wage theft as a result, right? If all you know that you're going to have to do is pay back the money that you were supposed to pay in the first place, it's kind of like an interest free loan, right, that you're taking out to just not pay people.

[Assembly Member Jo Anne Simon]: So the money isn't coming from the taxpayer. The money is coming from the violators of people's rights.

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: And

[Assembly Member Jo Anne Simon]: the department sort of waived part of the law for liquidated damages?

[Speaker 34]: J. Has made it And a policy. It's actually the same policy that the Trump DOL currently has, that they don't collect liquidated damages in wage theft cases, except in extreme cases, I think they might do that. It's not a good policy. So in Empire actions, an affected worker, a whistleblower with insider knowledge, or a union, a labor union, can bring a public enforcement action and step into the shoes of the state. They have to give notice to the AG and the DOL. AG or DOL has sixty days to decide whether they want to investigate. And if they don't, the worker can whistleblower union can then file the action. J.

[Assembly Member Nikki Lucas]: Great.

[Assembly Member Stacey Pheffer Amato, Chair, Assembly Governmental Employees Committee]: Thank you

[Senator George M. Borrello]: very much. J.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, NYS Senate Finance Committee]: Right. So assembly again.

[Assembly Member Gary Pretlow, Chair, Assembly Ways and Means Committee]: Assemblywoman Clark. No. Griffin. Oh, Griffin. Who? That was Sarah, no.

[Assembly Member Khaleel M. Anderson]: That's Judy.

[Roberta Reardon, Commissioner, NYS Department of Labor]: Yes. She look alike from back, actually.

[Assembly Member Jodi Giglio]: Okay. Thank you, chair. And thank you for all of your testimony and your comprehensive programs. Since I only have three minutes, I'll see what I can get to. With the wage theft, just had a question. Does the does the DOL endorse this legislation because it's been said that they don't have the resources to really engage in investigating wage theft?

[Speaker 34]: Yeah. I don't know the DOL's position on this. Okay. I certainly know that, you know, and I heard Commissioner Reardon say earlier that she welcomes all the help she can get. And so this is $211,000,000 that we could give to DOL to expand their staffing, expand their enforcement. So there are some opponents who have claimed that the bill privatizes Department of Labor jobs. But the labor law has always been directly enforced by workers and by the state. And what's changed is really all this stuff at the federal level and the Supreme Court undercutting workers' ability to enforce their rights and privatizing the judicial system into forced arbitration. And so with this money, the department could hire more staff, raise staff salaries, and significantly expand the number of cases it takes on, expand prevention programs, know your rights programs, to educate people about their rights, including under some of the really excellent new laws that the Assembly has passed, like the Warehouse Worker Injury Prevention Act.

[Assembly Member Jodi Giglio]: Okay, thank you. And to piggyback on Senator Mataro's comment, in the I know you're the private sector, but we do have in public works, we do have wage theft too, and that also is something that needs legislation because DOL isn't actively seeking those situations either. On EdHub, I think it sounds like an amazing program. I wonder if how you what's your recruitment like? Like, is it recruitment, like, to high school students to get them aware that they can participate in these apprentice programs and such?

[Speaker 36]: Thank you for the question. So we do recruitment in lots of different ways. We actually work as the intermediary and the technical assistance provider to school districts and child care providers that want to initiate a registered apprenticeship program, then we design recruitment around their needs, right? So it's not a one size fits all. It's what do you need and how can we help you get there. We've been working with Wayne Finger Lakes BOCES and St. John Fisher's to develop a program for their region. We also are working on a platform that is a talent marketplace that would match people interested in coming into apprenticeships to apprenticeship opportunities in this child serving sector statewide. So if you're if you're looking in your community, you could look if there's something there, or you if you're willing to move or live somewhere else, you could look statewide.

[Senator Jessica Ramos, Chair, NYS Senate Labor Committee]: Thank you very much.

[Senator Liz Krueger, Chair, NYS Senate Finance Committee]: Thank you. All right. Then we are now officially going to thank you for coming today and close down this hearing. And again, since we are just running late today, we apologize for giving anyone short shrift. We're now going to take a fifteen minute break before we start the housing hearing. Thank you so much, everyone. Three fifteen reconvened.