New York State SmartTranscripts:

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow (Chair)]: Thank you, everyone. I guess we'll go in size order. So Buffalo, Yonkers, Syracuse, Albany, Rochester no, Rochester, Albany, Niagara Falls. Does that make sense to everyone? Mayor Ryan, congratulations on your ascension to the mayorship of the great city of Buffalo. But please keep the snow up there, and don't send it down here. And definitely don't send it down to Westchester. All of you will have ten minutes for your presentation, and we will have a total in that time to ask questions. Mayor Ryan, you're on.

[Mayor Sean Ryan (Buffalo)]: Thank you, Chair Putlow. Good to see my former colleagues from the Senate and the Assembly. And of course new faces as always is the case in the revolving body. So as you know, I just became mayor of the city of Buffalo. And the city is saddled with the consequences of about a generation of fiscal mismanagement. And for years, the city's relied on one shot revenues, unrealistic budgets. Now the bills have finally come due, and I'm seeking your partnership in developing a toolbox to shield my constituents from the fallout from as much as possible. So in short, I'm asking you to help us, help ourselves, and to help the people of City Of Buffalo. My administration is prioritizing disciplined and efficient spending, but this is not a problem. We can cut our way out of it. You know, put simply, we have a revenue problem and not a spending problem. I'll share with you a few data points to illustrate the issue. For the past fifteen years, Buffalo taxes have remained flat with the levy actually decreasing several times during that time period. Our expenditure growth has remained well below inflation for over a decade And today, over 70% of our expenditures go to salaries for employees and their benefits. So we cannot make significant cuts in remaining functional municipal government. Buffalo already has the lowest per capita personnel spending of any Upstate city, and many, if not all, city departments are already severely underfunded. Meanwhile, the people of Buffalo become accustomed to receiving the bare minimal of services. Despite an incredible DPW team, we don't have the equipment necessary to plow our streets as well as the surrounding municipalities do. Last year, multiple community centers in Buffalo were forced to close their doors because the city couldn't pay the utility bills on the community centers. The ones that remained open are in various stages of disrepair. Our water infrastructure is aging and in dire need of repairs. The cold weather in the last fourteen days has given proof to that as we've had water main breaks all over the cities. All these problems are solvable. We know we can do better. But, you know, that starts with honest budgeting of both revenues and expenditures and honest and responsible planning. Buffalo has spent years relying on temporary fixes to plug budget holes. Our ARPA funding was squandered. Our unassigned fund balance is down to zero. There's no more short term fixes left on the table. We need additional sources of consistent and reliable revenues. But we also need to be creative. There's no silver bullet way for Buffalo to get out of this problem. We need and are seeking a variety of tools in our toolboxes to help right our financial ship. And to that end, I am proposing a package of Article seven proposals that will generate consistent revenue moving

[Speaker 2]: forward.

[Mayor Sean Ryan (Buffalo)]: And this is how we can start providing the level of service that Buffalonians deserve. We want Buffalo to be a city of choice where you can choose to live in Buffalo or the surrounding suburbs but not have to have lesser services if you choose to live in Buffalo. The first bill would allow the fiscal stability authority to do deficit bonds. So if in fact we need to get deficit bonds to get out of this fiscal year and going into next fiscal year, we can do that. We already have a fiscal stability authority. We just want to be clear that the fiscal stability authority can do deficit bonds and amortize that debt over a decade. But I want be clear on two things. This would not create an obligation of Buffalo to borrow. It would just be an option. It would have to be counsel approved. It also will not lead to a hard control board. We've spoken to the fiscal stability authority. They are on program with this. Last year, this body passed a parking authority bill that allows Buffalo to sell its parking ramps. We need some changes to that legislation. The legislation restricts Buffalo from operating any parking ramps if we do that. We only plan on selling half. And we also want to make the change that adds mayor oversight to the transfer of any lots or ramps operated by the city. And finally, we want to change the board composition so the members of the board are ex officio rather than the last mayor's budget director, have it to be the current mayor's budget director in their ex officio capacity. So those people can change, but the person in the board is there because of the position they're in. We're also asking for permission to request tax raises based on a few different things. We have the lowest per capita tax levy amongst all Upstate cities. We know we can't rely on state support to fix everything that we do. So we'll be seeking property and tax increases over the next three years. But we also don't want to overburden the people of the city of Buffalo. So we would like to have other ways to generate revenues. One is a supplemental tax on vacant and abandoned property. We have over 14,000 vacant lots in the city of Buffalo. We have acres and acres of vacant industrial site. We wanna tax them at a different tax level because the vacant properties use way more resources than full properties do. Cities like Baltimore, Detroit, and Cleveland are doing that. We would like to do that. These properties create blight and they are expensive. The next tax would allow us to change our homestead tax rate. Right now, anyone who owns less than three units or less can qualify for the homestead tax, but it doesn't matter how many you own. We want the homestead tax to be for owner occupied units and not allow investors to own dozens of units, but still somehow get taxed at the rate the same of an owner occupied homeowners. We want to do that. Buffalo is a city of doubles and triples. So this is one way to generate more revenues. And we have investors from Toronto and Madrid and United Arab Emirates who are buying property in our system, in our city. And one of the reasons they're so appealable is because of the tax revenue. The third proposal is a real estate transfer tax, similar to taxes in New York City, Yonkers, Mount Vernon, and Peekskill, which would allow a tax on the sale of the property and the tax would be paid by the seller of that property. So it wouldn't impede new home ownership opportunities. We would like to do that at two tiered tax structure for properties that go over a million dollars and properties that are under a million dollars. So my team has developed these proposals in the best attempt to close our budget gap. I don't take your partnership for granted, but I wanted to impress upon you the gravity of Buffalo's financial situation. Our services have already been cut to the bone. There's not much left to trim. But if we don't begin to close our budget gaps, the only option we would have is to further reduce our police force and police force and fire department and city workers. That's not something we're interested in doing. So with your help and our commitment to a three year soft landing plan, we can help avoid the harmful cuts and put Buffalo on a path to fiscal stability. I thank you for your time today and I'll be happy to answer any questions at the appropriate time.

[Mayor Mike Spano (Yonkers)]: Thank you, Assemblyman Manktelow, and to Senator Kruger, to the members of the legislature that are here today, especially Senator Shelley Meyer. And I know the Senate Majority Leader is not here, but certainly always very much a part of the things that are happening because she is a Yonkers resident. Good to see Assemblywoman Shimsky here as well. And many of you who I worked with over the years. And I'll be try to be as quick as I possibly can cause you've heard me and you've heard my broken record time and time again, but I'll try to, you know, soften it up or make it sound a little more interesting. You know, I've made it a priority to work hand in hand in the Yonkers Public Schools. I've been their voice both here at the state capital and home. While these and we've been able to secure some additional funds from New York State to help us get through. Has it always been everything we've asked for? No. But, you know, as we ask for additional dollars, whether it be municipal aid or education aid, we've said, give us what you can, but always know that if we don't get what we need, we're probably going to have to come back time and time again. And here I am 15 and here I am fifteen years asking. And Yonkers leads the big five in terms of graduation rates and we have really committed to education. The Obama Foundation found Yonkers a model community for educating especially young black men and that's something we're very, very proud of. That's a distinction we're very, very proud of. We have done the things we've needed to do. We've raised our maintenance of effort each and every single year. More than 60% of our property taxes go to schools, and we contribute an awful lot in terms of our local aid, our local dollars to education. As a matter of fact, our local contribution exceeds that of our sister cities, their number combined. And that's a and that's a quite the burden. And we've done the things that you would want us to do. We've broken the tax cap. We've raised our sales tax. We've absorbed absorbed school deficits. We've combined departments. We've taken over five different departments, that would normally be separate with the Board of Education and the city, but we now combine them. And that has helped out, but our local taxpayers are just exhausted. Simply put, you know, we we've asked for you to fully fund the formula and you've done that. Then we said after you've done fully fund the formula formula, we need you to fix the formula. And when I was up here and we were talking about, the regional cost index, we said, you know, New York City and and Long Island are one regional cost. We're Yonkers, New York. We're in Westchester County. We're in the we're in a Upstate regional cost index. And everybody said, well, you know, is that really true or not? I don't know. So we'll have the Rockefeller group come together and do a study, and they'll let us know. And they came together. He did a study, and they said, you know what? You're right. As a matter of fact, Westchester County is has a higher regional cost than even New York City and Long Island. And if the formula was allowed to work and if those costs were taken into effect, my city will get an additional almost $50,000,000 in education aid. So we try to make it work. We try to show you, at least from our perspective, where we need those dollars. And and we just know that in the governor's proposed budget, that should be or in the final budget, it should be addressed whether or not, that regional cost difference for communities like ours in Westchester County. Legislature needs to recognize that cities like Yonkers, especially ones that board New York City, we compete for the professional talent and at similar costs, and like I said, even greater costs. So, this simple adjustment would yield us almost $50,000,000. And it's not just lumping Westchester and New York and Long Island. If you just put us together with them, that would be an additional 17,000,000. Our cost across the board, special education costs are significantly higher. We have 74% of our kids live at or below the rate of poverty. We have, you know, we have students that that that need a lot of remediation and and we need to have those costs recognized and it's not really recognized the way it should be And we'll talk about that even further. The special education costs and I'm trying to run through and of course transportation costs. Transportation costs both in terms of regular transportation for special education transportation, huge, huge amount, of burdens that are being continued to be, placed on the local taxpayer. I'm going to go to municipal aid real quick. AMAID, I know that the mayor of New York City talked about it. We're all going to talk about it. AMAID, when we when I was here with you all, was was revenue sharing. And that was something that it was a recognition. It was a recognition that, you know what? Your mayors, we're on the front lines here. We're on the front lines in terms of educating our kids struggling with struggling families. We're on the front lines of homelessness. We're on the front lines of a failed immigration process. We're in the front lines of food insecurities. And when the federal government can't get it done or New York can't get it done, we have to. We have no choice but to get it done. And I'm just asking asking that you please try to see AMade, not as some giveaway, but as a real dollars, real recognition about how you need to support us in those battles I just described. And so we have, since 2011, given you an additional half $1,000,000,000 in sales tax revenues even though AMAID has stayed relatively flat. If you had just increased us, and I'm going to talk about Yonkers, at the two percent rate, you kept your spending at 2%. But for some reason, you didn't keep your spending on AMA at 2%. You kept that at zero. If you had just kept that at 2%, we would have gotten an additional $298,000,000 or just for this year alone, nearly $30,000,000 of additional AMAID. So that's the type of support that is lacking for us. And when we lose that support, I have to go back to the local taxpayers, and they're exhausted. And I have to say, give me more. Or I have to say, we're gonna have to cut further into whatever little surpluses we have. We don't have the surpluses that other communities might have. We have tried to make it work, and, and and we have kept our head above water, and we've done some wonderful things. But at the end of the day, the costs are enormous for us. Rising interest rates. If we wanna we wanna build something, we wanna repair a firehouse, repair a a school, the interest rates are incredibly high. The inflation and the expenditures. We built a school just a couple years ago. It cost us $80,000,000. A new school is going to cost us almost $200,000,000. That tells you what's going on with the cost. The costs are incredible. Negotiating collective bargaining agreements with our labor leaders. I know some of you will look at me and go, why you have, you know, you have a lot of people in your city who make a lot of money, and they do. They're in Westchester County. They're trying to make ends meet. But at the same time, it is really difficult for us because as management, we're on we're on the losing side. The, our labor leaders, as much as I love them and I know you do too, I'm a democrat, but they hold the cards. They're in control. We do what we can to muddle through. The slowing down of, like, the economically sensitive revenues, the surging of health health insurance and pensions, Health care. 2012 with $13,000 per family. It is $44,000 of family today. That's what our local governments are paying for. These are the things. So when you go, I would have to raise property taxes four and a half percent just to cover health coverage in Yonkers, New York. That's two that's two and a half times higher than the tax cap allows. So these are our pressures. These are the things that we're dealing with. And I and and and you have always been supportive, especially my delegation. I wanna speak I never wanna speak ill in my delegation. Senate Majority Leader, Senator Shelley Mayer, Mayer of course, Assemblyman Prentlow. We have had great representation, MaryJane Shimsky as well. And we want to continue to work with you. But I want to let you know that we're gonna try to articulate where we can get support and hope that we'll be able to get your support and get in the in the safe budget. You.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow (Chair)]: Thank you, mister mayor. It's right on time also. Mayor Owens.

[Speaker 2]: There

[Speaker 4]: we go.

[Mayor Sharon Owens (Syracuse)]: Thank you, chairs, Petlow and, Kwuger for the opportunity to speak to you. I'm Sharon Owens, elected newly elected, mayor of the city of Syracuse. We are in the center of New York state, but with what I'm going to talk to you about today, we are becoming more central to the vibrance and the future of New York state. I want to thank all of the representatives here in the committee, particularly our local delegation, Senator Chris Ryan, Senator Rachel May, Assembly members Hunter, Magnarelli, and Stirpy. Syracuse is at a crossroads at once in a generation investment is now underway, particularly for the I-eighty 1 project, $2,250,000,000 infrastructure project being implemented by the New York State Department of Transportation to remove the long dividing I-eighty 1 via the from the middle of our city, built and decimated the 15th former 15th Ward, primarily black and brown and Jewish community in our our our our city. And now we are, through the help of the governor and the DOT team, changing that history in our city and changing the landscape of Syracuse. And the other generational impact is the planting of Micron in our community in Central New York, the semiconductor industry in the town of Clay, which is about twelve minutes outside of Syracuse. So it is an exciting time for us in Syracuse. At the same time, we, and I know my fellow mayors understand this, suffer from the highest child poverty rates in the entire nation, Syracuse, for any city over 100,000 residents. That's comparing us to New York City. That's comparing us to Detroit, Chicago, Syracuse, New York. So I've always said that the promise of changing the physical landscape through I-eighty 1 combined with changing the economic future through Micron and its residual industry partners will mean nothing if our families are not feeling this impact in their purses and their wallets. And so we will continue to capitalize on that semiconductor industry. We received $80,000,000 from ESD for training for our folks. One of the things I graduated from Syracuse University way, way, way, way, way back. And when I graduated, many of my peers were the kids of the folks who worked at Chrysler, new process gear, GE, Carrier, and then they began to leave and was never replaced. And so this micron moment for Syracuse cannot be squandered. We are very much leaning into training our folks to prepare for these amazingly lucrative jobs. We will not deal with poverty. We will not be able to address poverty unless we are addressing the economic status of the individuals, every single home, and increasing their household income. So we will be capitalizing on not only, the jobs created, about 50,000 created by Micron, but also the residual opportunities through new hotels, greater capacity, and capitalization of of men and women of of color, MWBE, and disadvantaged businesses in our community, small business owners, and infill housing development. This has been made possible by work with ESD, work with h HCR. I will say that in Central New York and Nondaga County, definitely, we are the only community that has an inclusive zoning policy that allows for new development that requires minimal standards of affordable housing. We're proud of that. We will also say, and I and I know I share this with my fellow mayors, that we, cities, are the metropolitan centers that bear the greatest responsibility for housing for our most vulnerable. We are the ones who have shelters. We are the ones who have supportive housing, opportunities for people. And it is those inclusive zoning laws that we have that make that possible. You do not find that outside of those metro cities. And so we, to my partner's point, take on, and I will not say burden, take on the responsibility of caring for the most housing vulnerable in our I won't just say county, I will say region. And to be able to, really take a look at how funding for housing, for the most vulnerable and shelters. If we are the entities who are going to be caring for those populations, we should be receiving funding to be able to support those entities. I will go the pinnacle of the 81 project that I want to just make sure to make sure I'm making points through this time is when the I 81 Viaduct comes down, the land underneath that viaduct is owned by New York State. It is absolutely critical that that property be conveyed to the city of Syracuse. Through that conveyance of that property, the city of Syracuse will be able to engage in a public process that zones it in the best interest of our city and creates land use policies in the best interest of our city. And that is absolutely critical that Syracuse gets that ownership. I am a broken record and a loud sounding board to the DOT every chance I get, that that property must be conveyed to the residents, to the government of Syracuse. We, was listening, for a very long time, but heard about lead water pipes. So we are, as well under EPA requirements to replace we have about 14,000 water lead pipes we are replacing on the, private side now. We are targeting about 1,700 this year. It is, I am. I'm going to research the the legislation proposed that would give an opportunity for cities to be reimbursed. That means we have to come up with the money up front, which is never easy. But the other issue about replacing those pipes is the workforce, the contractors, getting a pipeline of contractors and workforce who can do the work. We can get the money. If we get the money, we still have to have the workforce that can do it. Fiscal sustainability, watching my time, fiscal sustainability, I'm proud that we, our S and P upgraded our credit rating from a to a plus. However, we still operate at an operational deficit. And that is because we just do not generate enough revenue. 52% of our taxable property is tax exempt. And I know all of us are homes to, as regional centers, the best educational institutions, the best hospitals, the best not for profits, but they pay no taxes. And so, again, our citizens, our property owners, our homeowners are continuing to be tax burdened because less than half of them cover the tax burden for 100% of our fiscal need. So we will, take a look at we will be, I'll be approaching my common council about reevaluation of our property citywide. It has been thirty years since we've done that, and so I'm going to be focusing on that. And we are also interested in in working with senator Rachel May on land value tax. We have too many property owners who demolish a property, particularly in our downtown, And then it's just a surface park parking lot. And it is assessed at the value of a surface park parking lot, really taking away the value that can be really assessed at, the citywide level. So a land value tax, I'm very much interested in alleged taking that on and really exploring that. I will close with I am absolutely in support with the local cops, local crimes act, New York for all act. Our law enforcement have enough on their plate. And and acting as or playing any type of role, that is not criminal, truly criminal, truly criminal, is not what they should be doing. I will close with just saying Syracuse is on a wonderful trajectory, but we still have real problems, particularly. And the part that gets me is our child poverty rate, particularly amongst black and brown children, highest in the nation. We are New York State. We should never be in that position. Thank you.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow (Chair)]: Thank you, mayor Owens. Mayor Evans?

[Mayor Malik Evans (Rochester)]: Yes. Thank you. Thank you, assembly member, Pretlow and, senator Krueger for putting this hearing together. It's good to be back with you again this year. I also want to thank my delegation, senators Brooke and Cooney and assembly members Bronson, Meeks, Clark and Lunsford for all their support as well as the governor for the great support that they have given Rochester Monroe County. There are many exciting things that are in this budget that we greatly support. Dollars allocated for the Rochester Monroe County Transformation Initiative which will have a great impact on the infrastructure in our city as well as the High Falls State Park. We believe that these will be transformational investments that will help move our city forward. But I want to focus my time on a topic that I talk about every single year. I'm going to spend every last couple of minutes that I have here and I hope you ask me questions about it and that is the aid to municipalities or AIM aid. We talk about this every year but I will tell you that now we believe that this is a do or die year for the city of Rochester. Rochester has been a leader in infrastructure and lead pipes. We're on track to replace every single lead pipe in the city of Rochester by 2030. Every one of our recreation centers has social workers. We have a person in crisis team where you can call 911 or 311 and get a healthcare person dispatched. That's not reimbursed. That's not something we get dollars for but it's something that we have to do because this Upstate city on the banks of the Genesee, when you look at the top five poorest zip codes in New York State, three of them are within the city of Rochester, right within the city of Rochester and we're just nipping at Syracuse's hills as it relates to child poverty. So when I talk about aim aid, is important to put it in the context of what we are dealing with with the hand that we have been dealt. We have kept things together in Rochester by bubblegum and tape. We have a great bond rating and we're a proud city. You know, we're like one of those families, like my family that was growing up where you may not have had a lot of money and you kind of keep it under the carpet, you don't talk about it. But I think now it's important for us to really elevate this AIM conversation to talk about how dire it is for the city of Rochester and for the things that I just mentioned that could be lost if AIM aid or whatever aid you want to call it is not increased to cities. And we're not begging for anything extra. If we got per capita what every other city got in AIM aid, Rochester would get an additional $30,000,000. We like more than that but just give us what what other cities are getting per capita and that would be an additional $30,000,000. As it relates to education, the maintenance of effort for all the big five school districts, I don't have a problem with maintenance effort but I would say our AIM aid allocation is $88,200,000. We give $119,100,000 to our school district. That's about a $30,000,000 imbalance that if you gave that in AIM that would help us, that's 63.5%. I believe that that's the highest out of any of the big five. 63.5% of every single dollar goes to education. Education is important. It's the passport to the future but you cannot do that when year after year our revenue has grown by, guess how much, 0%. 0% whereas expenses have gone up by double digits. Not because we are not spending our money wisely, we have some of the best bond ratings in the country. It is because our revenue has not gone up and it is time to end that inequity. The largest revenue source we control are our property tax level levy, which is about $187,600,000 and that's before the removal of the move of STAR tax credit. Even if we increased our property taxes, that still would not be enough to continue the great programs that we want to have to keep our momentum moving forward. So, it is extremely important. Sales tax revenue has been flat. State aid has essentially pretty much been flat. And you can't continue to drive a city forward when you continuously get flat revenue. So, it pains me to my core to have to mention budget cuts of a large magnitude because I know that these are services that have played an instrumental role in driving down violent crime. We've been able to increase our homicide, decrease our homicide rate by 50%. We've been able to launch the mayor's office of violence prevention. We've been able to provide summer jobs to just about any kid that wanted one. We'd be able to provide great mental health services for people. But that is not something that is that can be taken for granted. Those are all things that can be washed away if the revenue is not sent to our city. We know that our largest expenditures continue to be pension and healthcare costs. Our projected pension bill for this year is 8 and a half million dollars larger than it was last year, almost 11% of our total budget. And health care costs all across the country, and Rochester is no different, are totally out of control. 16% of our budget has escalated over the last two years to almost $18,100,000. This is a budgetary framework that is not sustainable. It is not sustainable and it threatens the incredible momentum that this medium sized city in Upstate New York has and our folks in Rochester. Not only Rochester, but across New York State because you don't want to be in New York State where you got 70 counties and you say, Oh, yeah, but we got this place in Rochester and they are having serious challenges but we're not worrying about that. We have to worry about that, I think, regardless of where you live. Because if Rochester is not strong, Western New York, and I think, and I would argue, the rest of the state would not be strong. And when you have high levels of childhood poverty, almost the same level of Syracuse, when you look at the five top poor zip codes, you can Google it, in New York State, and three of them are in a medium sized city, that is a problem and that is a reflection not just on my city, but a reflection on all of us in this room because we all live in New York State. So I, again, appeal to you to, I think, all of our cities should get more in what we call aim aid. But particularly, want to zero in on Rochester and what I'm saying, in the words of Rihanna, we're just asking to be paid what we're owed. And we're paid what you owe. When she says, Pay me what you owe me, I'm not asking for anything extra. All I am asking for is per capita that every other city gets and that would be $30,000,000 Anything above that would be great. Will allow us to be able But to maintain these essential I would ask everyone to remember that if we want to have kids working, kids having strong mental health and a strong economic vibrant community where we have, where violent crime and gun violence is a thing of the past, we have to make sure that we make those investments. Capital investments are and we are grateful for those, but we want to make sure that we can continue to be a city that removes all the lead out of its water. We were able to do that with lead paint. We have the momentum that's going, but once you take the fuel away, that momentum slows. So, I thank you for your time. I thank you for your support. I thank you for your partnership. And I hope that we can continue to work together to make sure that all of our cities rise, and not just some. And then that will allow us to be a new New York State where we're all rowing in the same direction, working on the same things, and ensuring that our residents have the best possible opportunities in America. Thank you.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow (Chair)]: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Madame May Appliars of Albany, New York.

[Mayor Dorcey Applyrs (Albany)]: Good afternoon, good afternoon. And I just want to start with giving thanks. I'm going to join the choir here thanking chairperson Senator Kruger and Assembly Member Pretlow. Thank you so much for your leadership. I also want to give thanks to the local government chairs as well as the senate finance committee, assembly ways and means, as well as the capital city delegation, senator Fahey, as well as assemblywoman Romero, are both here. Thank you very much for your leadership and to all of you for being here and listening today. As mayors, and I'm again going to echo some of what's already been shared, we have very similar challenges despite some nuanced differences in our city. Our police, fire, and sanitation departments make up a large amount of our budgets, and that is a real reality. I appreciate the opportunity to discuss some of Albany's unique challenges that paint a very real and current picture for the capital city. First, start with saying that it is truly an honor to serve as Albany's seventy sixth mayor. As the capital city, we are turning the page and starting a new chapter in our city's history. And I'm deeply honored that so many have expressed that they too are very hopeful and excited about Albany's future and the new chapter in New Era that we have started. As part of the New Era, I look forward to developing closer partnerships with you and other members of the state legislature as Albany is your second home. Many of you spend more time here than you do in your own primary residence. So this is your home too. Every week members and their staff travel to Albany to eat, sleep, sometimes pray, and do a lot of work. And yet many of you have shared with me that you feel disconnected from the capital city and that on Thursdays you run out of here as fast as you can. During my tenure, I look forward to reintroducing you to our capital city in a way that you get to know our city's rich history, the neighborhoods, the people who live here, and why we think Albany is a wonderful place to live, work, and play, as well as pray. In my state of the city address, I outlined the priorities I am committed to focusing on. Among those include activating our waterfront, which is one of our best assets and extremely underutilized. In addition, standing up in Office of Balance Prevention. I hear my colleague talk about some of the great work that he's been able to do with an Office of Violence Prevention. Many of you, maybe not necessarily in this room, but other legislators, have talked about how they don't feel safe walking in the city of Albany. And so public safety is a challenge, not just for you, but for our residents, our business owners, and it is top of priority for me. Also standing up an ambassador program in which we focus on hospitality as well as public safety and beautification, ensuring that we have ambassadors on our business corridors to to make sure that we are promoting these businesses as best as possible to keep them in our city and launching a large beautification program. I've heard time and time again that Albany looks and feels dirty. And Albany is a beautiful city, and we have to do more to clean up the capital city. Lastly, a topic that I really appreciate is turning the lights back on in the city of Albany. That has been my theme. Albany has lost its luster, as some would say. And so I am committed to turning the lights back on to ensure that we are not just a historic city, but a historic city that has a new vibe as well as a new path forward. It is why I launched day two on the job, my advisory council on nightlife and economy. We are truly committed to making sure that there are things to do in the capital city. These initiatives will directly impact visitors, residents, and the members who are here every week, but we need your help to make these initiatives a reality. Albany's tax base is uniquely limited with 56% of property tax exempt. I wanna just repeat that. 56% of our property is tax exempt. Additionally, the city receives lower state aid per capita than every other major city in New York. Albany, like our sister cities, have historically and currently received some support from the state. Albany received 20,000,000 in capital city funding and 17,000,000 in total pilot payments. And because of that, we have been able to manage our finances despite Albany's large amount of tax exempt properties. We are excited that the governor has, in addition to the state legislature, has approved $400,000,000 for our capital city with 200,000,000 of that 400,000,000 specifically to revitalizing Albany's downtown, which our downtown desperately needs. We are excited about turning the lights back on there too. As the new treasurer of the New York conference of mayors, I join its leadership as well as my colleagues here as we advocate strongly for additional and sustained AIM funding. In order for New York to be strong, and we've heard this that in order for us to have a strong state, we must have strong and vibrant cities. I skipped over the point that last year the city received 14,000,000 in AIM funding. However, as many colleagues have mentioned, these levels have remained flat. So contributing to some of the challenges with running a city when you don't have the surplus to do the important work. We as cities, especially as the Capital City, are looking to renew its contract with you all, with the state regarding its support for local municipalities. Even with the huge disparity in nontaxable property, Albany has maintained essential local services that support the state, non profits, academic institutions, residents, and the list goes on and on. We are doing our very best. We are doing it to the best of our ability, and like many have said, we are punching above weight. Our police, fire, and sanitation workers spring into action whenever a call is made, even when calls are made from our state properties that are nontaxable, our police and fire jump on the ground to handle the business. And so we need the support. So with punching above weight and understanding that AIM has not changed, pretty much has been flatlined for roughly seventeen years. Again, joining the the choir here, it creates challenges for our cities. The city has absorbed inflation, and AIM has not increased at the same rate as personal or corporate income tax revenue, which has more than doubled over time. Additionally, when you compare Albany to the other big cities, we received the least amount of total state aid per resident. Albany receives a total of 57,300,000.0 in state aid. That was in 2024. That 57,300,000.0 included 10,000,000 for our Lincoln Park pool. And that 57,300,000.0 in state aid is equivalent to $577 per resident. This amount per resident is significantly lower than Buffalo, Rochester, Syracuse, as well as Yonkers Due to the low amount of AIM funding we received to fund our essential services, we have had to rely on taxing our residents and significant tax increases to make up this difference. Again, not a unique problem to Albany. But what is unique to Albany is that we, with our 56% of properties being tax exempt, our residents are bearing the burden of that disparity. The state and state authorities own about one third of all property within the city limits. And I know that you all have been hearing presentations all day today, so there are a few points I just want to reiterate. And, again, I want to point out that state and state authorities own about one third of all property within the city limits here, which equates to over $5,400,000,000 of the city's real property. This is a significant number that the city does not collect taxes on to help support our essential services. Combined with the other tax exempt property in the city, we are left with only 45% of taxable property. As a city, we cannot afford to keep taxing our residents, and it has created challenges for us.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow (Chair)]: Thank you, Madam Mayor.

[Mayor Dorcey Applyrs (Albany)]: Thank you so much for your time.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow (Chair)]: And now we have a newcomer to this illustrious group, the mayor of Niagara Falls, Mayor Rastiano.

[Mayor Robert Restaino (Niagara Falls)]: First, I appreciate the opportunity to sit with these five great mayors. I will tell you that Niagara Falls, as you all know, is a landmark. The state of New York, internationally known, While we're not as big, I think we cast a pretty large shadow for the state of New York. I want to thank Chair Kruger and Chair Pretlow for giving me the opportunity to be here today on behalf of the residents of the city of Niagara Falls. I also want to thank the members of the Western New York delegation who are present here as well this afternoon. They have heard what I am going to share with all of you on a number of different occasions so I thank them again for being here this afternoon. I know my colleagues in municipal government have expressed some of the same sentiment that you may hear initially from me and that is how some of us are affected more than others by tax exempt state owned properties. In the city of Niagara Falls, approximately 60% of all tax exempt properties are owned by either the state of New York or its authorities. Those properties total somewhere in the neighborhood of just under $300,000,000 in total property value. And so if the city of Niagara Falls was able to tax at the current rate, we would be sitting somewhere with an additional $12,000,000 annually in taxes. In addition, the city of Niagara Falls is home to 51 acres in its downtown corridor for the Seneca Gaming Corporation where it operates its flagship gaming facility fueling station and its premier retail cannabis dispensary. All of which, as you know, is also beyond taxation. Again, I know other cities are in the same situation as I've just described to you. But humbly, given our size, I think that Niagara Falls is impacted greatly. You know, directly across the border recently, the Ontario provincial government announced a multi billion dollar effort to double the tourism sector's economic impact, increase yearly visitors to 25,000,000 people rather and extend average lodging stays. Their goal is to promote year round tourism that is sustainable and diverse by investing in infrastructure and attraction development and expanding entertainment. While my colleagues here have spoken about the essential elements of government service, I come to you here today to talk about another item. And that is as the Ontario provincial government has been thinking big, I think it's time for the state of New York to also think big, to grab that mentality for Niagara Falls, U. S. A. We're working our way through a process to obtain 10 acres of land and I'm happy to say that we're getting there and we believe that we are currently on the course for tentative agreement. And that will provide us with location for what I believe is a transformative economic development project for the city of Niagara Falls. In fact, as I indicated earlier, I've been advocating this to the Western New York delegation, to members of the governor's staff for funding for this project. It's an event center and park that will be right downtown and I'm confident that it will generate year round tourism to Niagara Falls, expand workforce opportunities and position the city for sustained economic revitalization. Building a year round multipurpose facility with a focus on minor, professional, amateur and youth sports, which is one of the fastest growing segments in the hospitality and tourism industry, There's strong demand but not enough supply, especially in the Northeast. With the help of Empire State Development, we conducted a study that dispels the notion that the idea of creating this event center and park is just a pipe dream. The feasibility study's economic impact model has estimated that the new event center will generate over $50,000,000 in total economic impact within the first five years of operation. The criteria established to conduct the study included determining the economic impact through new room nights at area hotels and motels. The study confirmed that indoor events and activities could extend the tourism season and bridge the gap for year round visitation. The study noted that within a two hour drive radius there are approximately 15,000,000 people close to Niagara Falls and that the park complex would capitalize on non local visits from this population and the 23,000,000 people who live within a three hour drive radius. This project has the potential to add to the downtown revitalization of Niagara Falls by stimulating local businesses, encouraging new development, and increasing foot traffic by attracting year round activities and events and providing a safe, vibrant gathering place that reflects the pride and potential of our community. Now, I enjoy sports. I enjoy concerts. I enjoy shows. I may even go to the occasional trade show. But by extending the tourism season, what I am looking to do is also help our residents. We have 10,000 members of our community that work in the tourism hospitality industry. Most are female, 75% are minority. They're working part time. And what that does is it causes them right around November to now search either for other employment or to go on unemployment, which is another cost to the state. This project allows them to move into full time employment, which then grows their economic opportunities. Working full time, it'll provide them with the opportunity to earn more and with that, the ability to find more stable housing, including owning their own home. It gives them purchasing power and economic mobility. A new state of the art events, center, and venue attraction is as much about the surrounding community and the people who live there as it is about the visitors that will come to us. Hundreds of families rely on the tourism season for seasonal jobs and business traffic. During the peak months, our restaurants, bars, hotels and parks are filled with visitors supporting the local economy. Extending the tourism season will provide families with more hours to earn sustained income, health benefits and childcare. That's what brings me to Albany today, a carefully crafted plan for a hope for a better tomorrow for our city's residents. It doesn't claim to be a silver bullet and I know so many times there are those who will say that mayors dream of these things that are supposed to solve all the problems. I can tell you that I realize this won't do that. This is a piece of a puzzle, a puzzle that we've been growing over the course of the last several years that I've been in office. But we do believe it serves as a catalyst for future development and opportunity. Specifically, I'm here to ask the legislature to consider allocating funds in this year's state budget to fund this Park And Event Center project. Our study is estimated that the low end range of this project is $180,000,000 The high end range is $220,000,000 So we believe the number falls in the middle at around $200,000,000 for this project. New York has invested hundreds of millions of dollars in projects such as the new $2,000,000,000 Buffalo Bill Stadium in Orchard Park, billions of dollars of incentive and infrastructure for the Micron Semiconductor Campus in Central New York. And as was announced in last year's budget, and as the mayor suggested here today to you, the $400,000,000 to redevelop Downtown Albany. We're already actively exploring partnerships with organizations like the Ontario Hockey League who has expressed extreme interest in coming to our city, as well as Live Nation and others to potentially assist with this project. The results of the feasibility study demonstrate the significant return on investment from building this event center and park. What we need now is commitment for that investment. We're grateful to Governor Hochul, our state delegation, USA Niagara Development for their support of the city, but we've been talking about a transformative project for Niagara Falls for decades. This study verifies that we have something really good to pursue in the events center and venue and the timing is right. We're asking that the state legislature in your budget bills include funding for this project so that we can get this project developed for the residents of the city of Niagara Falls. And on behalf of the residents, I thank you for the opportunity to speak with you and for your consideration of this request to fund the event center and park.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow (Chair)]: Thank you, Mr. Mayor of Assemblywoman Solages, ten minutes total. Mr. Mayor, the more the water that you drink, the more it's going to come out.

[Assemblymember Michaelle C. Solages (Chair, Assembly Local Governments)]: I just want to say I definitely agree that we need to look at the revenue sharing by the state, because a lot of the issues I'm hearing is that local governments are in a precarious fiscal situation. And you are the as the mayors, you are in the forefront of making sure that our New Yorkers get good services. And so I thank you for your work. I look forward to coming into your communities, visiting you, and actually seeing and hearing some of your concerns. So I first want to talk about you know, the challenges that we have with I'm going to first go to the mayor, because I think you have to go to the restroom, you can go. I'll ask a general question later. So I know that you said gun violence is a serious problem in your community. And you touched upon creating an office of violence prevention for the city of Albany. What are some of the barriers that you face in creating this office?

[Mayor Dorcey Applyrs (Albany)]: Just right off the bat, I would say the funding for creating the office. Just yesterday, I was in Baltimore with a delegation from Albany. Mayor Scott in Baltimore has been leading the charge across the country with showing significant reductions in gun violence among young adults and youth. And so there were a lot of best practices shared there. So here in Albany, we need, of course, the funding to support staffing, but also to provide supports to some of our other boots on the ground organizations that are already doing violence prevention work. We have all of the tools in terms of organizations doing great work across the city, but essentially they are rolling in different directions. Same goal. And so with the office, with the proper funding, we are able to bring everyone, convene everyone, and get everyone rowing in the right direction to tackle this issue aggressively.

[Assemblymember Michaelle C. Solages (Chair, Assembly Local Governments)]: And then you also mentioned your testimony about the city of Albany losing its Empire State Plaza pilot program in 2031. What will the budget implications be if this happens? And is there a plan to fill that gap?

[Mayor Dorcey Applyrs (Albany)]: So right now, as part of the plan to fill the gap, it's making an ask to the legislature to continue the pilot funding for Empire The Empire Plaza. It has had such a significant impact on the city of Albany. And if that funding does go away, it would be dire for the city of Albany. We use it to fill in the gaps. And so my hard ask here is to continue that funding. And I can get the exact figure in terms of fiscal implications if we were no longer able to receive that money.

[Assemblymember Michaelle C. Solages (Chair, Assembly Local Governments)]: Understood. And I know, and this is a general question for the panel, Many local governments are now using their reserves to float. And it's becoming a huge issue. And I know in Syracuse, there was, what, dollars 14,400,000.0 from the reserves that was spent. And you can correct me. But I want to see from you all, are you expecting to use a lot of reserves in the future? And, you know, what steps in your administration are taking to meet those challenges? It

[Mayor Sharon Owens (Syracuse)]: must be my finger. The challenge is the gap in our ability to generate revenue with less than as I said earlier today, the control we have is the property tax assessments. And we do not want to continue to bear the burden of property tax rises on less than 50% of those property owners who own taxes. So I'm going into my budget season now with my common counsel to really look at we came through a very tough budget season at the end of last year. And really, the counsel saw fit to cut $16,000,000 from the proposed budget. We're going to come together. What we have talked about is coming together to decide how what we are going to prioritize. Our uncontrolled costs of health care and pension are uncontrollable for us. And so we are going to we will go back into that fund balance. As mentioned before, it unsustainable. I don't want to beat a dead horse, but I can't go back to Syracuse without saying the word aim. And it is just critical to our ability to function and to function efficiently and provide the services that our constituents expect and deserve. And as the formula not only the AIM funding, but really taking another look at how the formula is calculated really taking into account what all of us has talked about is that nontaxable burden on each of our municipalities within that AIM formula. Because it's not just city that is being served. Those institutions serve regions.

[Assemblymember Michaelle C. Solages (Chair, Assembly Local Governments)]: Thank you.

[Mayor Sharon Owens (Syracuse)]: So

[Assemblymember Michaelle C. Solages (Chair, Assembly Local Governments)]: we all care about clean water and making sure people have access to clean waters. And you know the current dynamic right now where it's a bunch of grant systems and you've to apply and then you've to, you know, do a song and dance to get it. I know I'm advocating for some type of swap program where we have dedicated, consistent funding for water quality infrastructure projects. What do you feel about having sustainable funding for water quality projects?

[Mayor Malik Evans (Rochester)]: Critical. Yeah, I'll just say I think that that is absolutely critical, particularly when you have old cities and you have old pipes. Like I said, we're on track if if we can continue to get more support to replace every single lead pipe in the city of Rochester by 2030. But you need a good, steady, consistent, reliable funding stream to be able sustain those replacement pipes. And there's an EPA rule that says that cities need to be compliant on replacing this, but that makes it extremely hard to do when you are constantly being in a structural deficit. That becomes almost like an afterthought, but it should not be because that is the health and safety of your city. So a consistent funding stream for that would be, I think, critical in order to meeting those goals of replacing lead pipes in cities across New York State.

[Mayor Sean Ryan (Buffalo)]: To one extent or the other, all of us up here are waterfront cities. And with our aging sewer and water infrastructure, we can't take advantage of our waterfront because of our combined sewer systems overflow into our waterways. So for a generation in Buffalo, we said we wanted to be able to get to the water's edge. Well, with the deindustrialization, we're finally at the water's edge. But now that we're there, we'd like to go build a swim in it. But now we can't because of our aging sewer systems. But a consistent source of revenue to be able to do a twenty year sewer replacement plan, wow. And we're all under consent decrees, too. So it would be super helpful.

[Mayor Mike Spano (Yonkers)]: Our water systems, think all of ours, are all 150 years old.

[Mayor Malik Evans (Rochester)]: And

[Mayor Mike Spano (Yonkers)]: the old parts of our cities are the most vulnerable populations. We have cold weather like we're having now. As soon as it starts to warm up, we're going to be spending quite a bit of time fixing water main breaks, lots of them, all across the city. And so that, the lead system, the lead that's still some of the old pipes that have lead in it. We have all this and a lot of money to spend that we don't have to spend, that we'd have to borrow, it costs us literally hundreds of millions of dollars. And you take that, you put it in the world of school education and infrastructure repairs of police and fire, school infrastructure. It's unsustainable for us. But it's something we know we need to do. And we are under these orders to get them done. But it is a very, very hard burden for us.

[Mayor Dorcey Applyrs (Albany)]: And I'll just add, I thank you for your advocacy. As someone with a public health background, the outcome is health implications for our residents when we don't replace. And the other piece that you raise is the challenge with completing the grants. You have to literally sell your right and left arm. And we have seniors and some people who just don't have the capacity, and they choose not to apply because we create so many barriers. So having consistent funding, making it easier for our residents ultimately will equate to better, healthy residents as well. So thank you.

[Assemblymember Michaelle C. Solages (Chair, Assembly Local Governments)]: Thank you for that. And I'll end with the mayor of Niagara Falls. Know, I or Niagara, excuse me. I've gone to the area and, you know, you're talking about a big investment. Would that be transformative for the community?

[Mayor Robert Restaino (Niagara Falls)]: Well, there's no question it would be. I think that, if I may, you know, much of us in Western New York, there was a great investment over the prior decades in industrialization, right? And with the change of that, there was a failure to recognize and I'll speak specifically to Niagara Falls there was a failure to recognize the need to continue to invest in tourism because it was always a part of our economy. And so now we're at a point where we're doing those things, but, yes, this would catalyze it.

[Marina Pino (Brennan Center for Justice, NYU School of Law)]: Thank you.

[Senator Liz Krueger (Chair, Senate Finance)]: I'm so sorry. Excuse me. Apologize. We're going to first hand it over to Senator Fahey.

[Assemblymember Patricia Fahy]: Thank you, chair, and thank you to my colleagues since I have a meeting I need to get back to. Welcome to all the mayors and, particularly our new mayors, particularly, my mayor. I live in the city of Albany and, so pleased to see mayor Dorsey appears here, but I would also be remiss if I didn't particularly thank mayor mayor Sean Ryan, my former assembly colleague and former senate colleague. So it's love, love seeing you on the other side of the table. And thank you, mayor Ryan, for your comments on housing, vacant and abandoned properties. I've already sent your testimony to my office. Lots to follow-up on there. But I have a couple of questions for mayor Pleers. I've said I've started the new year with lots of optimism, incredibly grateful for the governor proposing the $400,000,000 last year. Couldn't have been more pleased to support that. With that 400,000,000 brings lots of optimism and lots of opportunity, but we still have many hurdles here in the city. Can you talk about the importance of the permanent capital city funding, that we've worked, myself, John McDonald, and now, Assemblywoman, Romero have worked very hard, to achieve. Can you talk about the importance of that capital city funding as well as what other fiscal hurdles you reach that you face in these next few years.

[Mayor Dorcey Applyrs (Albany)]: Thank you, Senator Fahey. And I did see Assembly Member Mcdonald just want to acknowledge.

[Assemblymember Patricia Fahy]: I'm watching it. That's all I need. Yes, not a chair. Go ahead, mayor.

[Mayor Dorcey Applyrs (Albany)]: So first, thank you for the advocacy on capital city funding and the increase in capital city funding. I've laid out clearly how the city of Albany continues to plug and fill in the gaps given all of the nontaxable property in the city of Albany. It really is a saving grace as a Capital City. With about 45% taxable properties in the city, we are showing up to a bazooka fight with a slingshot. And so the Capital City funding helps us to balance our budget to continue to provide the much needed services that we are able to. And in addition, we find ways to provide those social support services that cities are not funded to provide. But because of the challenges with homelessness, drug use, mental health crisis, we, again, punch above weight and fill in the gaps. So the funding is crucial, to the city being able to care for the residents that call Albany home.

[Assemblymember Patricia Fahy]: Thank you.

[Mayor Dorcey Applyrs (Albany)]: Thank you.

[Assemblymember Patricia Fahy]: And, just briefly, I'm so pleased again with the 400,000,000, which will have a lot of focus on the what's referred to often as the Downtown Parking Lot District. I also appreciate you mentioning in your testimony the up to what I call the Uptown Parking Lot District, is Harriman Campus. Can you talk about your vision in general for some of the capital investments that you see coming?

[Mayor Dorcey Applyrs (Albany)]: Yes. So and I'm a firm advocate for at least fifteen million dollars in pilot funding for here at Memphis. It is a huge piece of untapped land, I think, in the city of Albany with so much potential. And so looking at ways in which how we reimagine that space. More residential, I see more residential and commercial opportunities with the Harriman campus. Really, the sky is the limit, but we need not only pilot, but also the vision

[Assemblymember Patricia Fahy]: Thank Thank to all the mayors. Thank you, Chair.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow (Chair)]: Thanks, Senator. Assemblyman Brown.

[Assemblymember Ari Brown]: Thank you, Chair Prepp. I want to thank all the mayors for being here in a microcosm. I've been in business for almost three decades, so I appreciate what you're all doing. Some of my colleagues are not allowed to be here to ask questions per se, so they gave me a list of questions. Mayor Restano, regarding the new event center, I'm just reading some notes from my colleagues. I'm from Long Island, the total opposite end of the state, so you'll forgive me. 's one of the questions. How did you calculate the $50,000,000 of direct impact over the first five years and does it include cost of land acquisition, debt service and operating expenses?

[Mayor Robert Restaino (Niagara Falls)]: That's a part of the feasibility study that was conducted with the help of Empire State Development. So it's part of their formula, and it does include costs as well as what the expected revenue generation would be.

[Assemblymember Ari Brown]: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Here's another question. Do you have any signed agreement or form commitment from the Ontario Hockey League? I'm a hockey player, so that sounds interesting.

[Mayor Robert Restaino (Niagara Falls)]: Well, Commissioner Brian Crawford has spent no little time in our community. I think with the change in name, image and likeness, it's now created it's closed that gap between whether you play in the OHL or whether you play for a college hockey team. And so what they want to do is expand and they see Niagara Falls as a beachhead in New York State to expand out because of the large portion of Ontario that would be included. That league is a bus driven league in terms of the teams, and so they see that as a convenient location to begin.

[Assemblymember Ari Brown]: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Another three questions that they had written. Do you have any contingency plan to satisfy debt service if your estimate is not reached?

[Mayor Robert Restaino (Niagara Falls)]: Well, we've started to explore with some of our partners how to address the whole debt service piece based upon our current finances and where we sit in our own economic picture.

[Assemblymember Ari Brown]: Don't blame the messenger for the next one. Was there a suggestion of withholding the bed tax from the hotel and tourism agency if they didn't provide support?

[Mayor Robert Restaino (Niagara Falls)]: I'm sorry, repeat that

[Mayor Malik Evans (Rochester)]: for me.

[Assemblymember Ari Brown]: I didn't like saying it the first time. Was there the suggestion of withholding the bed tax from the hotel and tourism agency if they didn't provide support?

[Mayor Robert Restaino (Niagara Falls)]: Oh, no. Those two elements were completely separate. I know that some tried to conflate the two of them, but it was a different issue that we were having with regard to Airbnbs and a few other issues related to the bed tax.

[Assemblymember Ari Brown]: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. One last question. Have sources of financing been identified and committed?

[Mayor Robert Restaino (Niagara Falls)]: Sources of financing? Other than what I'm asking for here, guess, is what

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow (Chair)]: you're saying.

[Assemblymember Ari Brown]: Yeah, right, for the project.

[Mayor Robert Restaino (Niagara Falls)]: We have spoken with, and in terms of commitment, a lot of it had to do with our ability to secure the parcel. So now we are at the point where we've done that. Many people came to us, including members of the delegation that I spoke to that indicated that it's hard to commit to a project when you don't own the lawn yet. And now that we do, we're now regaining the momentum on those conversations to be able to get people to the table for that.

[Assemblymember Ari Brown]: Thank you. Just a general statement for the rest of the experienced something like what you were going through in a very small way with my particular village with non for profits. And I discovered, as you probably know, that there's always ways you can charge certain fees, sewer rents, water charges, connection fees, storm water drainage fees, certain sanitation fees. And then when I bless you. When I went around to some of my other mayors after I became a settlement, I was surprised that they didn't know that. So I know you probably know that, but always try to explore those fees that you're able to charge. In my case, I was able to actually charge more for those fees and make more that is if even if they weren't not as if they weren't not for profit. So it worked out better. There's always a way, and there may be one fee that one of you is missing that you're legitimately allowed to charge that may be a huge source of revenue. I thank you all for being here.

[Mayor Mike Spano (Yonkers)]: Thank you. Thank you, sir.

[Senator Liz Krueger (Chair, Senate Finance)]: Thank Sorry. Thank you very much. I think next we have Senator Baskin.

[Senator (unidentified, called “Senator Baskin”)]: Thank you, Madam Chair. Three questions, if time will allow, for Mayor Ryan. Mayor Ryan, Buffalo has been in the news recently for its inability to be able to implement grants, namely a lead remediation grant from HUD? What changes are you making to ensure that the state provides additional funding or funding that you may receive from the federal government doesn't get sent back considering the fact that the city is in financial deficit.

[Mayor Sean Ryan (Buffalo)]: Thank you, senator Baskin. We're retooling our our grants department, and we're we're also looking at, you know, our different agencies like Bureau to make sure that we're not only actively and aggressively trying to secure grants, but grants that we do get, you know, we we spend out. I know there was transportation money that I talked to senator Cooney about Mhmm. That landed in Buffalo last year. It hasn't got on the street. We're actively retooling our departments to make sure that the state money and that it's available, the federal money is available. But it was a real shame in a city like Buffalo that has a shockingly high lead poisoning rate that we had to send money back to the federal government to combat lead poisoning because we couldn't figure out a way to spend it.

[Senator (unidentified, called “Senator Baskin”)]: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Yes, as the Western New York delegation advocates for funding to help Buffalo restore its financial situation, it's good to know that you're putting measures in place to actually make sure that whatever resources come, at least from the state, actually reach the residents. Another question. You mentioned earlier, how much vacant, lots are a burden. They cost the city more to keep up than it would if a house was actually on the land and on the tax roll. Speak to me about the governor's proposed SECRA reforms and how you believe that that can or cannot help produce more affordable housing in the city of Buffalo.

[Mayor Sean Ryan (Buffalo)]: CEQA needs to be looked at. I support the reform because it's become just a shield to stop so many things. So it's not just about environmental quality, but it's how can I make something not happen? Like, you know, the whole St. John Towers project by the medical campus. You know, a nongovernmental entity is suing the city to saying, before you gave this land to a nonprofit and authorized them to move forward, you you didn't do sequel right. But that'll make it so it'll go through years of litigation and the HCR money that's been assigned to that project will sit and linger for those years. But we won't have any affordable housing build during that time period. So I welcome some rational and pragmatic changes to the secret process.

[Senator (unidentified, called “Senator Baskin”)]: Thank you, mister mayor. And my final question regarding the bill I have been proud to sponsor, but I know you are in support of allowing the control board, the Buffalo fiscal stability board, to be able to have borrowing authority. If that bill were to pass in the state legislature, how much do you predict the stability board would have to borrow within its first time around? Oh, you could tell me offline, I guess.

[Speaker 4]: Thank you. Thank you. It

[Mayor Sean Ryan (Buffalo)]: was gonna be a really good answer too.

[Senator (unidentified, called “Senator Baskin”)]: Thank you. You.

[Assemblymember Patrick Burke (Chair, Assembly Cities)]: All right, God. So, it's good to see you all. No one wants free buses? None you? All the asks, no free buses? I've had the pleasure of visiting all of you in your cities, except Maris Pana. I will come, and I'd love to. I hear you have a great Irish immigrant population, so I'd like to come down and hang down there.

[Senator Liz Krueger (Chair, Senate Finance)]: So,

[Assemblymember Patrick Burke (Chair, Assembly Cities)]: you know, a lot has been said about you know, we just went through the previous panel with the mayor of New York and about need. And in some weird way, I wish you guys would have been able to speak first to talk about the need of your cities. And because it's not a luxury, these are things that have to happen for survival. We're talking about, certainly, my familiarity with Buffalo, Rochester, Syracuse, three of the poorest cities in the country, that have real challenges, real life challenges. We're talking about 50% childhood poverty or near 50% childhood poverty. It's unconscionable that we allow New Yorkers to live like that. So I want to ask just I understand AIM is the big push, but there are all sorts of different ways to get support from the state of New York that might equate to that or help you in different ways. One of the things that I've been looking at has been extreme winter weather challenges that we're facing, certainly while the federal government seems to be dead set on neglecting winter weather, severe winter weather challenges, and not supporting states like New York. Just want to know if you could just briefly address each of you, just in a minute or two actually, minute, because we don't have that much time what it's like in your municipality, what the extra added costs of these extreme winter weather events is, and what you need from us as well. Do want to start with Mary Owens? You start from the right.

[Mayor Sharon Owens (Syracuse)]: Yes. I think over the last five years, we've been spoiled, and winter showed up again. And Syracuse experienced in the last two winter elements that we saw a record 30 inches of snow. The biggest cost to us we invested in the previous administration that I was a part of into our fleet. We bonded for it. We upgraded it. It had been abandoned for many years and at least we have the equipment. What we are running into right now is drivers. And the issue is having CDL licensed drivers that I know this body may have some influence on the federal level, but it is the federal requirements for being eligible to pass tests, particularly drug tests. We have legalized marijuana, but we have not matched that on the federal level. We had about 30 people who were willing to drive our trucks who failed that test, half of them. So we did the work to equip our workforce with the equipment, but we don't have the drivers. The cost is the personnel over time. I mean, our folks were driving, you know, fifteen hours, take a break, come back on. It was nonstop. And many of us, as pointed out, I'm over a minute, but many of us, that was pointed out, are on water sources. So we get lake effect. So while the rest of the country, the snow stopped, it did not stop for us. Those lake effect drifts are equally as high. And so it just never stopped. The sun was shining when I left and then it started snowing again.

[Assemblymember Patrick Burke (Chair, Assembly Cities)]: I know the feeling.

[Mayor Sharon Owens (Syracuse)]: So it is personnel costs.

[Mayor Malik Evans (Rochester)]: Yeah. And I'll just say briefly, you know, snow cold has been, you know, out of control this past year. Mhmm. And and that has an added cost. And each one of those runs, when you're when you're, you know, you learn more about snow than you ever thought when you're the mayor of a city in Upstate New York. Each one of those runs are hundreds of thousands of dollars in order to maintain that. But you need that in order to have people be able to move from work, to have first responders be able to get to where they need to be able to get to, hospitals. All of that has a cost to it. The personnel costs are a cost. The cost to maintain aging equipment, those vehicles cost money as well as the training to make sure that those that might be leaving the workforce that you can train and equip them to be successful to be able to move in extreme winter events, which I think we will continue to see more of. So it is a cost that is a huge portion of our budget on a regular basis. And anything that can be used to mitigate those costs, I think, will help municipalities, particularly those of us that are in these cold weather areas. Although, I was just in Washington, D. C, and they had probably a lot they had a lot of snow as well. So it seems like this is becoming a national issue in terms of us being in these deep freezes. And

[Mayor Sean Ryan (Buffalo)]: They didn't also do a good job on our streets.

[Mayor Malik Evans (Rochester)]: Yeah. I won't comment, but

[Senator Mark Walczyk]: And that's

[Mayor Sharon Owens (Syracuse)]: that's not snow.

[Mayor Malik Evans (Rochester)]: Yeah. Oh, yeah.

[Mayor Mike Spano (Yonkers)]: You know, the the difference with this storm compared to the storms we've had over the past at least down in the Downstate New York compared to the last couple of years was that it was followed with cold weather. And that cold weather kept snow around. So we pushed snow. We pushed it out of the way. People push it back in the streets. And then we have to figure out how we're going to clear, pick up some snow. We only picked up because our snow budget is pretty much done. We had a couple more storms going to deficit, right? But now we have to we had cleaned up maybe seven streets. We have 700 streets. We picked up seven. It cost us $2,500,000 to remove snow off those seven emergency routes. And of course, we all know what's coming after this. It's gonna start to thaw, and we're have the power rolls. And and anything we can do, especially we can increase the on our state arterios, the reimbursements that might help us out a bit just to throw a little out

[Assemblymember Patrick Burke (Chair, Assembly Cities)]: there. Great. Thank you.

[Mayor Dorcey Applyrs (Albany)]: Definitely over time regarding personnel. We've started in the city of Albany with retainers. So we have retainer fees for vendors because the amount of vendors for snow removal has decreased. And so when we have these emergencies, you're scrambling because you're competing with other municipalities for some, including municipalities as far as DC. And so we've started to put vendors on retainers so that when we need them, they are available, but that is costly. And then lastly, communications. When you have a snow emergency and you've got to start towing vehicles, people get really upset. So we do our best to communicate. But in the absence of money for proper signage, we get a lot of angry residents. So we are having to also invest in communications to get the word out.

[Mayor Sean Ryan (Buffalo)]: Thank you for the work, Chairman Burke, on your city's committee. So that snowfall, we did snow removal. Mayor Spano cost $1,250,000 to remove snow from the roads. We've been averaging five to 10 water main breaks a day since this cold snap went in. That's cost us roughly $4,000,000 already. Snow and ice is really tough on equipment. We started you know, we need 40 snow plows. We started the season with 28. And right now, we have 14 operating and about one third of our garbage trucks are in the mechanic shed from the, you know, the, just the wear and tear of being out in this cold weather, hydraulics, freezes, systems right now.

[Assemblymember Patrick Burke (Chair, Assembly Cities)]: You said you need four, how many, 40?

[Mayor Sean Ryan (Buffalo)]: We need 40 snow plows. Started with eight and now I'm down to 14.

[Assemblymember Patrick Burke (Chair, Assembly Cities)]: Those side streets, you know.

[Mayor Robert Restaino (Niagara Falls)]: I'm both heartened but still confounded. As I listen to these five great mayors, our problems are the same. It's personnel. We used our American Rescue Plan funding for a whole new fleet, but you've got to have people to drive them. And you can't have workers working endlessly. And then I think the other thing, too, from our perspective is the material that we treat the streets with. It's finding a consistent source of that. That seems to be a continuing and prevailing problem. So that's the challenges that we face.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow (Chair)]: Thank you.

[Mayor Sharon Owens (Syracuse)]: A summaryman, just really quick. I don't

[Senator Liz Krueger (Chair, Senate Finance)]: want to

[Mayor Sharon Owens (Syracuse)]: leave that conversation in these extremely cold weather conditions, the human cost. That, again, I have to emphasize, our cities are caring for the most vulnerable housing, vulnerable people in our And in bitter cold temperatures, that also is a responsibility and a cost burden for us as well.

[Assemblymember Patrick Burke (Chair, Assembly Cities)]: Absolutely. No, I understand that. I'm gonna run out of time, so I at least just wanna at least recognize it is an exciting time to have, you know, four, you know, brand new mayors up here. I'm sorry, three brand new mayors up here. And that makes Mayor Evans the old head, maybe, out of Western New York already. I said in the Western in that part the state. It's great to see you all. I'm looking forward to working with you all. And I got more questions, but I don't want to open back up. So I'll yield my time. Thank you.

[Senator Monica R. Martinez (Chair, Senate Local Government)]: Thank you.

[Assemblymember Patrick Burke (Chair, Assembly Cities)]: Oh, actually, you know what? You can take that back. Sarah Clark asked me to ask Mayor Evans something. You've made a lot of strides in youth services, mental health crisis services. What happens if you don't get the AIM funding that you're

[Mayor Malik Evans (Rochester)]: I think we lose those services if it doesn't happen. And look, if you take $100,000,000 and gave it towards the big five cities, that's like 0.038% of the overall state budget. That's like a rounding error in the state budget. But that amount is astronomical in terms of the impact that it will have on someone getting a summer job or stopping a kid from being killed. So we would lose those services. All right.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow (Chair)]: Thank you all. Thank

[Senator Liz Krueger (Chair, Senate Finance)]: you very much. And now we are going to move to our chair of cities for ten minutes, Senator Ryan.

[Senator (last name Ryan), Chair, Senate Cities Committee]: SENATOR afternoon.

[Senator Liz Krueger (Chair, Senate Finance)]: Not to be confused with Mayor Ryan, who was Senator Ryan. And we're giving you back your name tags. Thank you.

[Senator (last name Ryan), Chair, Senate Cities Committee]: JAMES Indeed, first and foremost, the two with regards to SWIP and for the arterial maintenance with the Senator May bill, SWIP with the Senator Henshee bill, please know that we're advocating for that. That's something that we, as a committee chair, believes in. And I think it's a great need. And I hope that it gets there. And I'm hopeful it makes it into the budget. So let's keep that going. And secondly, first question for Mayor Ryan. I do want to say, though, it's very lonely here. Losing 50% of the Ryan caucus has made this be lonely this year. That's the bad news. But the good news is because our offices were right next to each other and his legislative director was also named Sarah was very confusing.

[Mayor Sean Ryan (Buffalo)]: It was.

[Senator (last name Ryan), Chair, Senate Cities Committee]: So we've lost that confusion. Mary, you spoke of obviously the financial issues with Buffalo. But my question is for AIM and or other state based aid. Do you have an approximate dollar amount that the city would need in addition to the legislative and budgetary measures, hopefully they come in the budget, right? But do you have an approximate number beyond that which would help right the ship, if you will?

[Mayor Sean Ryan (Buffalo)]: So we've been carrying for the last several years a $60,000,000 structural deficit

[Mayor Mike Spano (Yonkers)]: Okay.

[Mayor Sean Ryan (Buffalo)]: That we've been able to close. When I say we, not me, we're able to close by taking money out of various reserve accounts, our ARPA money. But right now, I have a zero unassigned fund balance, and the 60,000,000 structural budget is there. So, you know, this year, my budget starts July 1. So the budget year I'm in looks like, you know, around 50,000,000 plus out of balance.

[Assemblymember William Conrad]: Okay.

[Mayor Sean Ryan (Buffalo)]: So hoping to close that by selling city assets. We'll probably get half of it. The other half, if we don't get an infusion of of state aid, is we have to do long term deficit bonds, which nobody wants to do to, you know, amortize operations cost. But that 60,000,000 in July 1, it's back again. So, you know, it's a it's a structural imbalance. We're looking for a soft landing from New York State. That is, we bring our revenues up and if we were able to bring the revenues up by some of the changes we've asked for today, you know, vacant property tax, homestead reform, that we'll be able to get that soft landing. But it's going take us

[Senator (last name Ryan), Chair, Senate Cities Committee]: So are we going to have to have another follow-up conversation about the sale of assets, see where we really are to help?

[Mayor Sean Ryan (Buffalo)]: Yeah, we are. Okay. Yeah, and that's why the idea of allowing the fiscal stability authority to do bonding for us in case that sale of assets fall through, then we're back to having to do deficit financing.

[Senator (last name Ryan), Chair, Senate Cities Committee]: G. To Mayor Owens and also to Mayor Appellier's right, so we talked a lot about heard a lot about tax exempt properties. And I know that that's very troublesome. We've talked about that. But I guess going beyond the AIM funding and I know I want to hear from you what your thoughts, what the real long term plan has to be. I know notwithstanding a dedicated funding source in perpetuity for AIM so that you could count on it in a minute or two, what other things do we need to know? Or how can we help?

[Mayor Sharon Owens (Syracuse)]: I mean, we have to generate revenue. And we can't rest on the laurels of less than 50% of our tax base to do it. That land value tax is one methodology towards it. We are also looking to sell, our assets as well, to take a look at. We manage, garages, and I don't want to manage garages anymore. They are a cost burden to us, so that is another avenue for us. Building for us is also to ensure I am a supporter of the seeker reforms, absolutely, to help us build and continue to build. You know, senator rise senator Ryan, the absolute need for us to double and triple down our housing stock in Syracuse given the micron moment in our community, but to ensure that that housing remains also affordable and eclectic in its need. Absolutely, in generating the revenue is taking a look at our own property that we own that we should be selling and also, looking at the assets that we have now. I am a proponent and will continue to push reval across our community to really look at the assessment values in our community. It hasn't been done in thirty years. Is consistent?

[Mayor Dorcey Applyrs (Albany)]: I would say some of those pieces are consistent. I talked about the governor's approved state legislature, the $400,000,000 which really has served as a catalyst for the city of Albany. More funding that can be used to spur economic growth and development in our city is essential. And just working on ways to be better partners in government. Right now, for example, the city of Albany has budgeted lines to clean up some of our entry points into the city. Those entry points are not owned by the city. Many of them are owned by the state. And yet, we pay because when they're not cleaned, the complaints come to the city of Albany, not the state of New York. And so there are other areas in which, whether there is overgrowth, so land with lots of overgrowth owned by the state, that the city of Albany, we maintain, but we don't own. Those costs impact our bottom line. The other piece, Mayor Owens, and I'm happy that their highway, there is some progress there. But with 787, which is a huge barrier in the city of Albany for economic growth and truly having access to our waterfront, we are, too, looking at ways to reimagine 787, to have to capitalize on the asset that we have that we are just unable to really utilize because of 787. So some similarities, but also some unique differences in which, with better state partnership, we can unleash and unlock a lot of our economic growth and potential.

[Senator (last name Ryan), Chair, Senate Cities Committee]: Thank you. And I want to touch S.

[Mayor Sharon Owens (Syracuse)]: Senator, I would also encourage continued support of the land banks in our state. The Greater Syracuse Land Bank in Syracuse is a game changer for us.

[Senator (last name Ryan), Chair, Senate Cities Committee]: Yeah. We're happy to do it, like, on the county too. It makes a big difference. Only have three minutes left, but I want to touch on housing just a little bit. And the general question is, for anybody who wants to take it, what you know, obviously, we are all part of that. There's a lot happening in Central New York in my district, in my background, but meeting the moment for the housing and potentially 40,000 new residents coming to the area. But generally speaking, what barriers do we need to remove so that we can help our cities do housing and do housing right?

[Mayor Sean Ryan (Buffalo)]: Senator Ryan, I would say that just recognizing the difference between trying to develop city areas and other areas that often, you know, our quote deals don't pencil out. So I have 14,000 vacant lots with no barriers in front of them. But the cost of building a house is too high for the income level of people who live. So over the last three years, we have set up three state programs. One is the block by block that allows people who make under $100,000 a year build a house with a state subsidy. The second is the vacant rental property repair program. All of our communities have thousands of vacant units inside one, two, and three family homes. That program gives, I think, a $75,000 grant to get those back online. And the third is the SAFE program, which makes it so the cheapest way to house people is to keep them in their houses. The average upstater gets evicted for less than $1,200 in the controversy. New York City's had a program for over thirty five years that pays rental arrears. We started just delivering that program upstate two years ago. But the continuation of all three of those programs will certainly help my city continue to grow.

[Mayor Mike Spano (Yonkers)]: I'll be real quick at the because we're building a lot of house in Yonkers. But right now, we're with 12,000 units. We've built anything from market rate to affordable right across the board. But the Governor Hochul's CEQA reforms are certainly something I think that would go a long way towards helping us. And that's why I'm really interested in seeing that through.

[Mayor Sharon Owens (Syracuse)]: I would also add that there is a need in our communities also to assist our lower middle and middle income homeowners and property owners. Many times, the revenues, particularly we get from the federal government, always have income restrictions. Many times, people are just over, income from those restrictions, but they still need a roof and they still need new windows. So funding that will give us the flexibility, that is what we're doing in Syracuse with our Housing Strategies Corporation, is really taking neighborhoods that are middle income because we need to maintain that tax base in our communities.

[Mayor Malik Evans (Rochester)]: And I would just also say workforce housing, again, supporting and pushing workforce housing, and also rewarding individuals in cities that are looking at rewriting and changing their zoning code. People are afraid of that. We're not. We're rewriting

[Assemblymember (unidentified, referred to as Mendez/Méndez)]: our And

[Senator (last name Ryan), Chair, Senate Cities Committee]: I thank you for everybody's testimony, but if we can help, please don't hesitate to call the office. Thank you.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow (Chair)]: Chairman Member Rivera. I'm sorry, Patasano. Yeah. Good

[Assemblymember Phil Palmesano (Ranking Member, Assembly Transportation/Cities)]: evening. First, I just wanted to say thank you for being here and sharing your testimony. I certainly appreciate I know we all appreciate the work you do and the undertaking you have dealing with your citizens as far as affordability, public safety, transportation, and housing. So I just wanted to say that first. And then on a personal note, I've certainly had the privilege to serve with Mayor Ryan. Congratulations. And Mayor Spaniel, I was a staffer when you were serving me, so it's good to see you. I've heard I think we've all heard your message on AIM. I understand that. I won't ask questions about AIM. I will bring up an issue and not necessarily ask the question. One area that we have constantly tried to push, push, push that I'd love to see you guys even more vocal about is CHIP's program, which delivers critical infrastructure money right to your local communities. So you can decide what roads to fix, what bridges to fix. And the fact that 87% of our roads are owned and maintained by our local municipalities, 52% of our bridges are owned and maintained by our local municipalities, This budget doesn't have an increase in that. Having your voice united saying we want a CHIPS increase, I know the chairman of the Senate Transportation Committee, I know it's a big issue for him, my colleague, Senator O'Meara, all of us. So I'd love to see you guys advocate a little bit more on that, if you could.

[Senator (last name Ryan), Chair, Senate Cities Committee]: Also, we

[Assemblymember Phil Palmesano (Ranking Member, Assembly Transportation/Cities)]: had especially because a lot of funding focuses on the MTA, and I think the roads and bridges mean a lot to upstate work. We had the former chairman of the MTA or the chairman of the MTA here the other day, in his comments, he was saying that they've stopped buying electric buses because of feasibility and other issues. And I know that's a huge we talk about unfunded mandates for our school unfunded mandates. I know you talk about that. School districts got the biggest unfunded mandate ever placed upon them with the electric school bus mandate. I know that's funded out of your city budgets, your schools. Have you and I know there's grants. I've seen you've received some grants on that. Is I remember the NYSERDA chair said that there's enough money there for 3,000 school buses when you take state and federal incentives. And we have a fleet of 50,000 Not to have you all answer just because in the interest of time, I'm going to ask Mayor Ryan. How are you accounting for this, what I refer to as the mother of all unfunded mandates being placed on school districts? Mean, our local rural communities can't afford it. They don't want it. How are you accounting for the impacts of these purchases on your budgets, the grid improvements that are going to need to be made that you're going to be responsible for, the charging, the road impacts because of the heavy weight of this material? How are you planning for that? I mean, I imagine, you know, probably speaking for your group, I hope you are planning for that. And how is that impacting your budgets right now? Do you have anything you could alight on that?

[Mayor Sean Ryan (Buffalo)]: Thank you. I'll swing it over to Paulisano. The good news is we have a dependent school district that is managed by itself. So we don't directly manage the school district. And the NFTA is also a standalone authority, so I don't have direct control

[Senator (last name Ryan), Chair, Senate Cities Committee]: Okay.

[Mayor Sean Ryan (Buffalo)]: Over over either of those. You know, we do know that we are fans of electric buses and there were a lot of the funding came from New York State. We have a lot of really tight neighborhoods in the city of Buffalo. The metro buses go down those neighborhoods. The school buses go down those neighborhoods. And we do have a really high asthma rate from the particulate matter from the diesel buses. We would like to have a cleaner form of transportation. But I'm not involved in financing Okay.

[Assemblymember Phil Palmesano (Ranking Member, Assembly Transportation/Cities)]: So I may have you for dealing with the funding for your school district. Are you dealing with the school budget bus bus issue in your budgets?

[Mayor Mike Spano (Yonkers)]: I'll I'll just say this. It's gonna be tough. I mean, we're we're a long way off from coming close to what the the the capital needs that we'll have to getting the infrastructure in place in time. And I'm speaking on it just like the Mayor Buffalo with the independent school district. But it's still going to be very, very difficult for us.

[Assemblymember Phil Palmesano (Ranking Member, Assembly Transportation/Cities)]: Maybe I can just get you to answer one question for me to point. Because I know it's overwhelming. One thing that's frustrating for me is we're asking our school districts to convert their entire school fleets to electric by 2035. But the state of New York does not have to convert their heavy duty fleet till 2040, a full five years after the state after our school districts. So why are we having this social experiment be placed on our local property taxpayers and school districts? Shouldn't we make the state of New York, wouldn't you agree, let the state of New York do this first, show that it can be done effectively, efficiently, and cost effectively, work out all the kings? Wouldn't that be the best thing for us to do?

[Mayor Mike Spano (Yonkers)]: J. Sounds like a good idea.

[Assemblymember Phil Palmesano (Ranking Member, Assembly Transportation/Cities)]: J. Thank you. I thought so, too. Also, one more quick question. You're not going have enough time, probably, but what do you think about a CHIPS like formula for water and sewer? I read municipality. I guess there's proposals on both sides of the aisle to do that. Would that something like that be effective, just to give you Absolutely. A little piece every

[Senator Liz Krueger (Chair, Senate Finance)]: Yes.

[Senator Roxanne J. Persaud]: Thank you. KATIE Thank you.

[Senator Liz Krueger (Chair, Senate Finance)]: And next up, we have our rancor on cities, Senator Walzik.

[Senator Mark Walczyk]: KATIE Thank you, Madam Chair. Mayor Owens, and welcome, mayors. You talked a little bit about the land value tax pilot proposal and advocated for it in your testimony here. So you would volunteer Syracuse for that program?

[Mayor Sharon Owens (Syracuse)]: Yes. We have support from our common counsel. I look out the side of my window at City Hall, I see a huge, parking lot, that once had a business on it that was demolished, now it's a vacant parking lot that, when you are in cities, have such few acres of property that you can actually put back on the tax rails and have value out of them. We don't want to see surface parking lots all over the place. And so, yes, I'm in favor of it.

[Senator Mark Walczyk]: So this proposal would increase taxes on parking lots, vacant land, low density land use areas, golf courses,

[Mayor Sharon Owens (Syracuse)]: that I kind we have one golf course that we have a developer coming in who's going to build two fifty new homes in Syracuse. That has been unheard of in decades in our community. And that is the type of use that we should have on properties that are just sitting there unavailable unused, excuse me.

[Senator Mark Walczyk]: And how vacant lots do you have in the Syracuse land bank currently?

[Comptroller Mark Levine (New York City)]: Oh my goodness.

[Senator Mark Walczyk]: Could you ballpark it? Is it

[Speaker 4]: in the hundreds?

[Mayor Sharon Owens (Syracuse)]: In the hundreds? In the tens of thousands.

[Senator Mark Walczyk]: You have tens of thousands of

[Dustin Czarny (NYS Election Commissioners Association)]: vacant lots

[Senator Mark Walczyk]: already in the land bank?

[Assemblymember Michaelle C. Solages (Chair, Assembly Local Governments)]: Is it all

[Mayor Sharon Owens (Syracuse)]: in the land bank?

[Senator Mark Walczyk]: Yes, ma'am.

[Mayor Sharon Owens (Syracuse)]: I don't have that answer for you. Okay. Okay. Can get it for you

[Senator (last name Ryan), Chair, Senate Cities Committee]: before I How many

[Senator Mark Walczyk]: total properties are already in the Syracuse land bank?

[Mayor Sharon Owens (Syracuse)]: In the Syracuse Land Bank, total property is probably close to $10,000 They take the smallest parcel, tax and links to the biggest property.

[Senator Mark Walczyk]: Yeah. That would would be kind of my concern. And I'm sure it's something that you've also considered is some of those smaller lots or many vacant lots that have low density use. As soon as you jack the tax prices up on that, they go into tax foreclosure and then they end up in your land bank many times with little reuse and will sit in the land banks for a long period of time. And now the little bit of taxation that you were receiving turns into zero and indeed a burden on your I

[Mayor Sharon Owens (Syracuse)]: actually see it as an incentive. Build. We're here to help build. We want to build and create a vibrant downtown in particular. But in our other areas, I actually see the land value tax as an incentive to get properties back into the tax rules.

[Senator Mark Walczyk]: Yeah. I understand the theory behind this proposal. And I know Detroit put it on their books, had some trouble with their legislature and hasn't fully implemented it yet. Why not wait to see if Detroit is successful with their land value tax before we do it here in New York?

[Mayor Sharon Owens (Syracuse)]: Well, speaking for Syracuse, I don't want to be first in the line, but if there are others who would like to come in with me to pilot it, we'd consider it. Again, it would have to be approved by my counsel.

[Senator Mark Walczyk]: You also you testified about aging housing stock in the city of Syracuse. I live right up Route 81. Pretty familiar with your city. You also talked about lower and middle income struggling and the extreme bitter cold, I think is what you said. Yeah. We've certainly all faced that and certainly north of you. How significant are the barriers of electrification in the state of New York to those low and middle income residents in Syracuse?

[Mayor Sharon Owens (Syracuse)]: I am an absolute advocate of our a friend of our environmental partners in our community. What I have said to them is the technology has to become more affordable to everyday folks. As we look at solar panels and the ability to use solar, create solar energy, most people in the neighborhoods that could use the benefit from the lower utility bill can't afford it. So the technology has to present itself in a way that is more affordable for more of the everyday folks who are living in our community.

[Senator Mark Walczyk]: The first four years of my life, I actually lived in an old Victorian in the city of Syracuse.

[Senator Erik Bottcher (Chair, Senate New York City Committee)]: What street?

[Senator Mark Walczyk]: Which it's in the Leavenworth neighborhood.

[Speaker 4]: Oh, yeah.

[Senator Mark Walczyk]: So in those old Victorians can be and I know your city has poured a lot of resources into beautification. They can be tremendously difficult and expensive to heat with electric. Are you concerned about some of the electric mandates that you see coming down from Albany?

[Mayor Sharon Owens (Syracuse)]: I mean, first of all, the historic tax credit program has been a game changer for us for much of our aging stock. But it could be.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow (Chair)]: Thank you. Assembly member Rivera. R.

[Assemblymember Jonathan Rivera]: There. Good afternoon, everybody. R. Good afternoon. R. Have the good fortune here in the state legislature to welcome O'Pharrow: mayors from across the state very seldomly. So we're happy to have you here. We tend to have a habit of, when folks come here in this space, to sort of focus on the toughness that you guys have ahead of you. And I want to acknowledge and thank you for all the hard work you're doing as mayors of cities. As someone who comes from local government, too, I know it's a tough task. And I want to spend a minute in just highlighting all the great things that you do and what you've done and what your cities have done. I have the good fortune of being the subcommittee chair on regional tourism. And in that capacity, I think I've been to all of your cities. I've stood overnight in all of them and enjoyed my time there. And there's a bit of history about all six of your cities. Mayor Restaino, with Niagara Falls being the first state park and the beauty that's there, you've been able to accomplish a lot with not a lot of help other than the gorgeousness of Niagara Falls. And millions of people come see you. And I know if you had the support, millions more would come see you. Mary Ryan, selfishly favorite city, given that's the city I live in, Buffalo, has an incredible history that people don't even know about. From presidential history to Underground Railroad history to architectural history. And we've done a good job in Buffalo to preserve it all. Our new mayor from Albany, we've got to meet. But this is a beautiful city. It becomes our second home for all of us up here. Indeed. But again, incredible history. New York State wouldn't be what it is. New York City wouldn't

[Assemblymember Phil Palmesano (Ranking Member, Assembly Transportation/Cities)]: be what it is if it wasn't for

[Assemblymember Jonathan Rivera]: Albany, and the incredible history there. The mayor of Yonkers, again, been to your city, beautiful city. And you're doing a lot with your film credit. There's a lot of things being produced and filmed there, and that's a big part of the tourism work that we're doing. For the mayor of Rochester, I will say this, and I've said it 100 times over, what your city was able to do with Strong and creating a brand new community, a brand new neighborhood centered around a cultural institution is a standard that every city should follow. And for the mayor of Syracuse, not just because of the state fair, but I genuinely believe that Syracuse has an essential part in the future of New York State. And we're going to attract a lot of people there, but people are going to learn how incredible Syracuse is. So I want to thank everybody for the incredible work you do as mayors. But I'll give Mayor Ryan one quick question. And Senator Bespin was able to wrap it up on her end. But I want to just give you a few seconds to talk about the challenge ahead of you, especially when it comes to borrowing.

[Mayor Sean Ryan (Buffalo)]: Sure. You know, we're in really a deep hole this year. So we're asking for help from the state to get out of this budget year. You know, we're going to sell some assets, which no one ever wants to do. But at the end of it, we're gonna end up in a significant deficit. So when we close our fourth quarter books, they're gonna say, have to pay this money and we don't have it. And that's why the the bill that senator Baskin is carrying that allows the fiscal stability authority to bond on our our behalf. It will allow us to amortize some of that debt over multiple years.

[Senator Liz Krueger (Chair, Senate Finance)]: Thank you. Next up is Senator Jeremy Cooney.

[Senator Jeremy Cooney]: Well, you, chair, and hello mayors. It's always great to see all of you here. And Mayor Ryan, we were deeply missed as my partner in the Senate, but I'm I'm glad that you're doing wonderful things for seven sixteen. My question is, of course, for my mayor, Mayor Evans in Rochester. Mayor, I want to thank you for highlighting AIM-eight. All of our mayors did. And I will remind this body that I carry legislation to redesign our AIM formula so we can get to the bottom of this. And that would impact, of course, all of our Upstate cities, as well as my friends. I see the Speaker of New York City Council and the Controller of New York City and a good friend, Councilmember Linda Lee, that would also give an opportunity to look at New York City as it relates to AIM-eight. I think all of our cities need funding, especially as we see this federal administration continue to chip away at our urban centers, especially here in New York. My question for you, mayor, is around the Rochester Monroe transformation initiative. This is a huge opportunity that governor Hochul and the legislature are working on. Could you talk about how that could be impactful to our city in the High Falls area?

[Mayor Malik Evans (Rochester)]: Yeah. Think it means taking all of Rochester's great assets that have been kind of left behind, left out. We turned our back to them. Rochester is only one of the few cities that has a river, a lake, a waterfall, and a canal all running through it. That gives us the opportunity to capitalize on those assets as well as the new High Falls State Park that is there and really generate revenue from an economic development perspective by developing space particularly in our downtown in our High Falls area. So this has the ability to be transformational for our community, making Rochester a destination. We have lots of great assets there, but this allows us to build on those assets. But more importantly, it as an economic development tool to generate more revenue for our city.

[Senator Jeremy Cooney]: I think we can build off of a model off of what's happening here in the capital city at Albany and that historic investment we made last year. Mayor Ryan, you can talk about what's been happening at Canal Side. I mean, there's been some significant investments in our Upstate cities. Obviously, Mayor Owens, we're very excited from a transportation standpoint on the I-eighty 1 project. And we'll get this nonsense figured out with Washington, DC. But we'll be able to get back to business. That's going to be historic and transformational for Central New York and what's been happening with Micron. And we're just so excited. I think we should be positive about what's been happening in our community. We have real opportunities from Yonkers to Niagara Falls. We're going get it done. But I do think this is the moment for New York to recognize that a strong New York City creates strong opportunities for the rest of the state, and the same vice versa. If we have a strong Upstate 5, that impacts, of course, our friends in the city. So it's really an opportunity for us to send a message to the rest of the country that New York will lead again. Thank you.

[Mayor Malik Evans (Rochester)]: Appreciate it, Senator.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow (Chair)]: Thank you. Thank you, Senator. Assemblyman Otis.

[Assemblymember Steve Otis]: Thank you very much. Thank you, mayors. Nice to see you all. So the biggest thing that we could be doing and I listened to the mayor of New York City and listened to all of

[Dustin Czarny (NYS Election Commissioners Association)]: you

[Assemblymember Steve Otis]: is more focus on AIM, number one, because that is a big chunk of money. Even though we had an increase, 50,000,000 last year being repeated this year, it's been years since there's been any increase. Number two is each of you had specific kinds of remedies for your financial woes for each of your cities. And I think that we should try and be helpful where there's a state piece to those to try and help solve those. One area where I think you get money is, obviously, CHIPS is important, and CHIPS is going up $50,000,000 this year. But there are other DOT funding lines that you get. Do you all get state touring roads dollars? You just nod or wave?

[Mayor Sean Ryan (Buffalo)]: Think Yeah, you it's a new program. It's a terrific program. But the continuation of that is wonderful. The winter recovery money for potholes is another DOT program. You know, that's super, super helpful.

[Assemblymember Steve Otis]: So, I mean, I think one suggestion that I'd say to my colleagues as well, which is for the DOT part of the budget, CHIPS goes up, but none of the other there are like five other road categories of funding that stay level in this budget, most of which I think go down to municipalities. The state touring roads, I know, is especially beneficial to cities. So that is one to really focus on. And just leave it to any of you, any comment on those DOT funding streams and how helpful they are to you.

[Mayor Sean Ryan (Buffalo)]: They're of vital importance. You know, the touring roads program is, I wish senator Cooney was still here. It's it's being developed. Now we we, according to the books, we haven't spent that money yet, but we're figuring out how to. But there are just so many little ways that, you know, the New York State has helped cities and can continue. You know, the last few years, the historic theater funding that's come to several of the Upstate cities, you know, super important. But I think part of what you're hearing, some of you are Otis, is, you know, we all have these commonalities. You know, we're all very old infrastructure. You know, we all suffer from, you know, de industrialization, you know, white flight being left with aging and tired infrastructure, lead paint, major highways that go through all of our cities that are now at economic detriment. They're gonna take billions of dollars, you know, to remove. So there are clear hurdles to the growth of the Upstate cities. You know, we all share in the the bad statistics about our childhood poverty levels, our child lead poisoning. But, you know, you hear in this testimony that our problems are are shared amongst all of us. So any of these programs that can help all these cities will be very beneficial to us.

[Assemblymember Steve Otis]: Thank you all.

[Mayor Mike Spano (Yonkers)]: Thank you. Thank you.

[Senator Liz Krueger (Chair, Senate Finance)]: Senator Sanders from New York City.

[Senator James Sanders Jr.]: Thank you, Madam Chair. To the chairs, I want to first attest that I've had the pleasure of visiting five of the seven cities here, and I cannot tell you which of these mayors have gone all of more all out for me than the other. All have been excellent. And to the other two, you have now a high bar that you must meet. Colleagues have done a big job for you. One of the questions that I have to our chairs is where does the money go? If we're collecting this much from everybody and everyone is saying that they're not getting their shares, somebody, some city, some town in New York is cleaning up. And I would love to know where that is. I can attest it's not in the Rockaways, Queens. I can encourage all of you, we need to think outside the box here, give more thought to a public bank. You have to finance your own infrastructure and things of that nature. You're going to have to give more thought to the concept of a public bank. I'd be delighted to speak to you about what that means. Another thing, since I'm hearing of so many, so much of your infrastructure, resources, your property is untaxable by you, we should consider a pilot of one type or another, payment in lieu of taxes, that certain religious communities and certain universities have taken the lead in saying, we will give a certain amount. We will pay or give the words are very important a certain amount to the city in lieu of taxes. And it may be interesting to know how enforceable that is. We need to explore that. I think that you can explore that with us. We need to look at that. But you do you really don't have a choice. You've got to get more money from them. They have it. They're not giving it. Maybe their goodwill will lead them that way. But if not, we should quietly think of what can we do to ensure that the nonprofit community especially is a good resident of your cities. Thank you very much. I give my extra twenty minute seconds to Roxy.

[Senator Liz Krueger (Chair, Senate Finance)]: R. Thank you. Assembly.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow (Chair)]: Michaelle C. Back. Smithson Assembly and Conrad. G.

[Assemblymember William Conrad]: Thank you, chairs. This is more to my friends in the Buffalo Niagara region, but I'm sure it affects all. But due to the recent tariffs and situations with our Canadian border, in which, of course, Buffalo Niagara Falls border, my question is what has been the essentially fiscal impact to your cities with that? I've heard today from the NFTA, because we had a conversation about the airports and the lost revenue from that. But I'm just wondering what your impact is. Especially Mayor Ristaino, you're looking at a project I know that Ontario is doing the same on the other side of the border. I would imagine that a lot of that traffic, OHL, so on, comes from the Canadian side, especially its fan base. Just kind of interested to hear what you have to say about the impact of this.

[Mayor Robert Restaino (Niagara Falls)]: Well, we've certainly seen a bit of a downturn in traffic. One of the things that helps save our city is because of its proximity to Niagara Falls, Ontario, there are families on both sides of the border. So the impact rate immediate isn't so great. But when you start talking about the Greater Toronto Area and farther into the province, we've seen a diminished number of travelers come through and some of that is tariff related, some of it is other issue related. So ultimately, yes, I mean the looser that can get for all of us, the better it will certainly be for the city of Niagara Falls.

[Mayor Sean Ryan (Buffalo)]: Thank you for that question, Assembly Mayor Conrad. So, you know, the national politics is bad for border cities. So the traffic on the Peace Bridge is way down. People are not coming from Canada to come to Bill's games, Sabre's games, art museums, and shows. But also, you know, we have two dozen at least companies in Buffalo and Erie County that are owned by Ontario concerns. All those corporations have just gone into total neutral. They have no idea what to do. They have no idea if their people are gonna be able to come over the border on a consistent basis. Tariffs have driven up manufacturing costs all over, you know, Western New York and, you know, really concrete things like the we have a Ford plant in Buffalo that ships parts to Oakville, Ontario to be assembled. They were supposed to be doing a joint electric vehicle of manufacture and production. You know, they they scrapped it because they did not know if they can consistently get the parts, you know, across the border. Mind you, this plant has been open for seventy years and the parts have been going back and forth for seventy years. So it's created a very negative economic impact on Western New York.

[Assemblymember William Conrad]: Thank you. With my time, I guess this goes to both my Buffalo Niagara colleagues again. You know, or really for all of you, I think all of us here want every one of your cities to succeed. We understand the financial burdens that have been put on you. And I'll talk offline about some structural changes that are coming for the city. So I appreciate that.

[Mayor Sean Ryan (Buffalo)]: Thank you so much.

[Senator Liz Krueger (Chair, Senate Finance)]: Thank you. And Senator Martinez, chair of local governments, has generously agreed to go at the end of the summit. Thank you.

[Senator Monica R. Martinez (Chair, Senate Local Government)]: Thank you. Good afternoon. First, just want say congratulations to all our new mayors, Senator Ryan, former Senator Ryan, Mayor Ryan Now. We do miss you, but thank you for the all the good work that you're doing. I do have a couple of questions, and I'm also going to ask questions because Senator Mayor had to leave, so she she asked for certain things to be asked. But first, I will begin with AIM. Right? We hear you loud and clear. We heard you during budget season. We added money for you, granted temporary. The governor did extend for a third year. Obviously, we wanna make that permanent for you. Right? And I know we talk about the task force, and I know senator Cooney has to bill. But we also have to be very careful when we're talking about formulas. Right? Because when you start changing formulas, numbers could potentially change. Right? Whether your allotment will go up or will go down, and that's something that we need to be very careful with, which is why this task force would be beneficial to do. Right? So currently right now, Syracuse, 72, Rochester, Eighty Eight Point Two. You know, so that can stagger whether more or less. So we also need to keep that in mind when we talk about changing formulas. But please know that we hear you and we're going to keep advocating to even the $50,000,000 we would would love to see permanent, okay, To the mayor of Albany, we love it here. The reason why we wanna leave because we wanna go home. So it's nothing to do with in fact, there's nothing to do here. Great restaurants and so forth, so please know that. My question to you, mayor, regarding the property tax that you have exempt. 56% is exempt. Is there a way to what can we do to help you decrease? Is are there plans possible plans for this, or this is what it is?

[Mayor Dorcey Applyrs (Albany)]: I would like to say that there should be plans, but given the spread between the state property, our academic institutions, our nonprofits, our faith institutions, it's really challenging to manage to that and change because those entities are what make up the nontaxable properties. So it's I don't want say a blessing and a curse. So we see the benefit, but it does create some negative implications for our residents who bear the burden.

[Senator Monica R. Martinez (Chair, Senate Local Government)]: Of course. And all of you spoke a little bit about increasing or having revenue from the state for water infrastructure. Have any of you considered what you can do at the local level to increase revenue to hopefully streamline some of this funding for water infrastructure projects?

[Mayor Mike Spano (Yonkers)]: We, Senator, we just in Yonkers actually brought $17,000,000 to redo our entire water system to put new meters in, new modern meters because it turns out that 30% of the water actually is disappearing under the ground because of the old infrastructure. So we're addressing that with the new system. And we're also finding leaks, closing them up so that we can balance the books and be able to make greater investment, even greater investments in the system. Like I said before

[Mayor Sharon Owens (Syracuse)]: No problem.

[Speaker 4]: What do you have next?

[Mayor Mike Spano (Yonkers)]: In the older part of the city, it's a system that is in desperate need of repair. But we don't have the amount of revenues that we would need to make those repairs. But if we upgrade the system, we'll start to get those revenues. And we'll incrementally change it and make it better.

[Mayor Sharon Owens (Syracuse)]: We did the similar in Syracuse. He's absolutely right. Those water meters were overcharging some folks, leaking in other places. So we did the same thing. We also Syracuse is very hilly portions of our community, and water pressure has been an issue for many parts of our community. And so we are currently in a process of changing all of the water pumping systems in Syracuse for the efficiency. It's one thing to have water. I think it makes people more angry when you actually can get water, but the pressure is not right. And so we're doing that as well in Syracuse.

[Senator Monica R. Martinez (Chair, Senate Local Government)]: Thank you. And look, at here at the state level, we'll continue to invest in water infrastructure. Obviously, everybody deserves clean water, drinkable clean water. For example, on Long Island, in support of my colleagues, we did something known as the Water Restoration Act, you know, something that we we as you know, Long Island surrounded by water, slowly sinking. Water infrastructure for us is of of of main priority, so we're trying to figure out how we can help out with that. Right? So just just just an idea. Also, any possibilities in terms of when you borrow and your banking system, public banks versus credit union banks. Is is that something that you have also looked into? Any of you?

[Mayor Malik Evans (Rochester)]: I I don't think credit unions are allowed to take municipal deposits or make loans to municipalities.

[Senator Monica R. Martinez (Chair, Senate Local Government)]: So if there was a bill

[Mayor Malik Evans (Rochester)]: There'd have to be a change in the law for that. I think there and I think the net I think the credit unions are advocating

[Speaker 4]: Mhmm.

[Mayor Malik Evans (Rochester)]: For the for for that.

[Senator Monica R. Martinez (Chair, Senate Local Government)]: So my question to you is would you would that be something that you'd be interested in?

[Mayor Malik Evans (Rochester)]: I think for us, would be an all and above strategy. If we can get better rates, we would look at that because the current environment in which we operate in, even when we bond, there's just not enough dollars to meet the needs of all the infrastructure, particularly as it relates to water. So

[Senator Monica R. Martinez (Chair, Senate Local Government)]: So then what I would urge you to do, I do have a bill that I would like you to look at, that would allow the municipalities to do just that, And that is bill number three nine six two. And now I'm gonna go over to mayor of Yonkers

[Mayor Mike Spano (Yonkers)]: Yes.

[Senator Monica R. Martinez (Chair, Senate Local Government)]: For senator Mayer's questions. All right, the first one. What was projected annual revenue if MGM became one of the awarded casinos which you worked for to make happen over ten years?

[Mayor Mike Spano (Yonkers)]: DAVID We were projecting to at least double the figures that we were having as of today. Right now, get about $20,000,000 host community aid along with all the ancillary taxes, property taxes, income taxes, sales taxes, that that track probably generates 30 or so million dollars. We had expected that that would double with the with gaming. MGM, as you know, pulled out. Their Yonkers Raceway is still there. We know that they're gonna be okay at least for one or two years, but we don't know what's gonna happen because there would be three new casinos very, very close. And can Yonkers Raceway operate as a slot parlor at at its current levels? You know, it it last last year, I think they they made $630,000,000, over 400,000,000 of it went to New York State for aid to educate for help offset aid to education. That's a that's a good question because we that's where we need to go. So we're working with the governor's office. We're working with the delegation. Our hope is that we're gonna come up with a plan that will take the Yonkers Raceway and turn it into something that is profitable, something that is sustainable. We're not sure where that's at at this particular point, but that's where we are.

[Senator Monica R. Martinez (Chair, Senate Local Government)]: Thank you. And, Harla, the following question is, last year, need to exceed the tax cap. What was the percent increase last year? And do you foresee an above the cap increase for this year if you don't get more funding from the state?

[Mayor Mike Spano (Yonkers)]: G. I last year, we broke the tax cap. I think we were have to ask Jonathan Rosinski. I think we're over I think we were just under 5% or something like that. We fully expect that this year, we will probably have to propose a budget that exceeds the tax cap. Like I said before, just the two just take the insurance. That would be two and a that would be four and a half percent just on our insurance. On our pensions, our pensions are $27,000,000, and we're gonna be pension smooth it. But imagine if we had to add that to to the overall budget. So, yeah, we're gonna have a challenge. We're gonna probably have a budget that if we hope we'll get additional state aid, we'll we'll tap into whatever reserves we have left, and we will raise some taxes. Don't really wanna do that. I don't say that willy nilly because I don't wanna raise taxes. And and we'll probably, do some cost saving measures too. And we already did that starting this year. We anticipated that we were gonna have a tough budget, so I directed our entire staff to cut, their budgets by 5%, and we're gonna continue that going forward into my proposed budget.

[Senator Monica R. Martinez (Chair, Senate Local Government)]: Okay. And you're gonna you you will need to go back with this answer to her with this last question.

[Mayor Mike Spano (Yonkers)]: Okay.

[Senator Monica R. Martinez (Chair, Senate Local Government)]: If Yonkers had the regional cost index of New York City and Long Island, what would be the additional revenue? So will we have 10

[Mayor Mike Spano (Yonkers)]: get that back to her.

[Senator Monica R. Martinez (Chair, Senate Local Government)]: Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair. And thank all.

[Mayor Mike Spano (Yonkers)]: Thank you, Senator.

[Senator Liz Krueger (Chair, Senate Finance)]: Thank you. And next we have Assembly Member C. Meeks.

[Assemblymember Michaelle C. Solages (Chair, Assembly Local Governments)]: Yes, he's here.

[Assemblymember Demond Meeks]: Thank you, Madam Chair. This question will be to my mayor, Mayor Evans. You know, it's interesting when we see this downtick in violence across the nation. There's this whole thing of we don't know where it's coming from, but somehow it's happening. You often spoke of a three pronged approach, as it relates to the challenges that we've had in the city of Rochester, as well as some of the resources that we've been able to advocate for from the state such as the GIVE funding. Can you speak to that approach and some of the resources that you've received from the state as it relate to us tackling some of the challenges as a community?

[Mayor Malik Evans (Rochester)]: -Yeah, absolutely. And I think it's ironic whenever crime goes down, they don't like giving mayors or cities credit. And we, you know, we've had reductions of 50% in gun violence. My first year in office, we had double digits amounts of young people being murdered. This past year, we only had one. But our approach is to our Office of Violence Prevention. We call it prevention, intervention and suppression. And that has worked greatly for us. We are big fans of the G. V. Program for the state. We think Rochester, and I'm sure some of my other colleagues up here that benefit from the G. I. Funding, that has been very effective for us in terms of getting illegal guns off the streets and focusing at some of the root causes that lead to gun violence that has been very successful for us. And then a newer program that the state has, which I think is amazing and I think that it will be a model for the rest of the state, particularly as it relates to domestic violence when you have over 8,000 domestic violence calls in one year, which is a crisis for our community. And I'm sure it's like this across the state. The STRIDE program, which deals with intimate partner violence. And then our investments in youth employment, our investments in mental health, these are all things that you can draw a direct line to increases in violence, particularly as it relates to young people. Because if you are keeping young people so busy that they don't have time to get in trouble, you are not going to have violent crime instances in your community. So, those resources from the state paired with our Office of Violence Prevention, as well as our Peace Collective, is a collaboration of 50 plus organizations that commit to work together to reduce violence in the community, have been very, very essential to us. And I think that those have been key things that the state has been supportive of for us. We advocate for increased give funding, increased strive funding as it looks at as it looks to as they look towards trying to find ways to bring down violence.

[Assemblymember Demond Meeks]: You have about, twenty five seconds left to speak on. If you can touch on some of the things you've been utilizing our library spaces, and ways to protect folks with the elements of this harsh winter.

[Mayor Malik Evans (Rochester)]: Absolutely. So we we use, we use libraries as a place for our community hubs. It's not your library or our library when we were growing up. We use it as a place that is where most of our opioid outreach, believe it or not, takes place in our libraries and pushing in mental health as well as drug counselors into our libraries to become places to come. And that's helped with these code elements. Thank you.

[Senator Liz Krueger (Chair, Senate Finance)]: Thank you. And we have Senator Rawlison.

[Senator Rob Rolison]: Senator Thank you, Madam Chair. And to my colleague, Kassay Meeks, that was going to be my question, was

[Assemblymember Demond Meeks]: going

[Senator Rob Rolison]: to be give since DCJS is coming tomorrow. I'm glad to hear that. And I want to give you credit as a former mayor of driving down gun violence. And as a give jurisdiction in Poughkeepsie, and we are the twenty second largest city out of 62, so we're 22 out of 62. It's not as cool as Big 5, but it's a cool city to begin with. So when the commissioner comes tomorrow, of course, you know, I'll be asking her about those initiatives, Strive also in Dutchess County and the partnership, of course, of those two organizations. Many are working off sort of the give relationships already that were started. So building relationships, both within the law enforcement community, but within the community in general, drive down violence at all levels. So I want to say thank you. And to Mayor Evans, I know that you now have the former school superintendent of Poughkeepsie, Doctor. Eric J.

[Mayor Malik Evans (Rochester)]: Rosser That's right.

[Senator Rob Rolison]: There. And I can just personally, as a personal friend, he will be a great asset to education in the city of Rochester. So we'll continue to advocate for everything that you need because as most mayors say, or all mayors once a mayor, always a mayor. Once a mayor. You always fight for mayors. Thank you.

[Mayor Sean Ryan (Buffalo)]: You. Thank you, Sarah.

[Senator Liz Krueger (Chair, Senate Finance)]: Thank you. Next we have Assemblywoman Shimsky.

[Assemblymember MaryJane Shimsky]: Okay, thank you. We'll start with Mayor Mike. The economy is going pretty well in Yonkers. You have a lot of people who are coming in for jobs from the city. You have young people who are more inclined to stay than they had for a while, and then you have seniors wanting to stay and needing housing that fits their needs. What are you doing to increase the housing supply?

[Mayor Mike Spano (Yonkers)]: We as you come down to Yonkers, you'll see that there's lots of building happening all across the city. And we are I guess we have already authorized and built some 12,000 units. We made sure that we didn't build just market rate housing. We built workforce housing. We also, using the support that we got from all of you here at the state, we were able to rebuild all of our municipal housing as well. We made sure that people in the community got all the same benefits that they were getting in the new housing. Because we want to make sure, right, that the tide went up in the harbor, all the boats went up with it. And the people that have lived there for generations are getting the same benefit of the people that we are moving in into the community. So we are still working with new developers that are coming in. We just did a 340 building, development over our on along the water's edge that is that we were able to get a community benefits package out of them where they build it. They rebuilt the NetPan Community Center, which is a community center. And so we're getting community benefits from the developers. And we're also getting the housing built. We're going to raise our affordable units from 10% to 12%, and we're also going to put in place homeownership. Some of the new developments that's gonna come online, and you're gonna hear about this very, very soon, will involve homeownership, condos, coops, because, we know that you wanna deal with wealth, generational wealth, you really have to come up with a plan that allows people to buy something, to own something. And that's what we're gonna see happen soon with a corporation that we're going to put in place that will provide for grants to help pay the, like I said, the down payment.

[Assemblymember MaryJane Shimsky]: Okay. The next one's going to be a hand raise. Jump all for everybody. Are special ed costs really causing a problem for you? Raise of hands?

[Mayor Mike Spano (Yonkers)]: Through the roof.

[Assemblymember MaryJane Shimsky]: Okay. Okay, great. I only have eight seconds left. Can't do much with that. So thank you very much.

[Mayor Sharon Owens (Syracuse)]: And mental health costs as well. Raise hands on that. Yes.

[Karen Wharton (Fair Elections for New York)]: Okay. Thank you.

[Senator Liz Krueger (Chair, Senate Finance)]: That was a good sneak in at the end. Thank you. Our senator for cities, Chair for Cities, has chosen to take his three minute follow-up questions. Senator Roth.

[Senator (last name Ryan), Chair, Senate Cities Committee]: I will not take all three because I'm going to be very quick. I have a quick question. So we talked about AIM funding. We talked about funding. We talked a lot about economic development and housing, poverty, childhood poverty, generational childhood poverty. I wanted to one of our colleagues is giving all that. Is electrification in the purpose cost is that on top of anybody's mind? Just wondering. Okay, I didn't think so. Thank you. Secondly, we talked about tourism, especially Western New York. Is there like measurable costs or measurable revenue that you're down? Or is there anything that you I guess the question would be, is there any way you could potentially quantify that in any way or how it impacts your cities?

[Mayor Malik Evans (Rochester)]: I think we absolutely can in Rochester, particularly because we're close to Canada. Sure. We could easily quantify

[Senator (last name Ryan), Chair, Senate Cities Committee]: Oh, please, take the question here.

[Mayor Malik Evans (Rochester)]: Yeah, we could easily quantify the

[Senator Rob Rolison]: we can

[Mayor Malik Evans (Rochester)]: get you the number in terms of what we've lost. And, you know, there was a tariff question that was asked before in terms of lost tourism dollars because of things that are coming from the federal level, but also quantify what we could gain in tourism through certain investments, well. So I think that that is a very quantifiable number that we could give for you.

[Senator (last name Ryan), Chair, Senate Cities Committee]: Okay.

[Mayor Sean Ryan (Buffalo)]: I mean, it is quantifiable the loss of Canadian tourists coming out of region. It's pretty clear. The state has, you know, several programs around tourism. They've been super helpful, bringing people into Western New York for the arts, the cultureals, the lakes, the Niagara Falls. So, you know, the state program and the state funding for that has been helpful.

[Mayor Sharon Owens (Syracuse)]: Senator, and I know you know that one of the issues, particularly in Syracuse, is our ability to attract larger conventions and sporting events because of the lack of hotel rooms. So we're working with the state, particularly ESD ESD. To attract new hotels because we've actually had hotels become Two become residential Exactly.

[Mayor Robert Restaino (Niagara Falls)]: Certainly is quantifiable, Senator, and we would be able to provide numbers, sales tax, bed tax, a number of these things that pump back into the tourism economy but also are shared between the local government and state government, we can show quantifiably that year over year we are seeing a reduction. So I certainly can

[Mayor Mike Spano (Yonkers)]: get those numbers sent to you.

[Senator (last name Ryan), Chair, Senate Cities Committee]: Well, I think it's also, too, back of my previous county room occupancy tax, rot tax, we do a lot with rotten fund arts. And so that's all I think that's all part of the I think it's all part of the big picture the unfortunate big picture, I should say. Right. Okay. Thanks again. Appreciate it.

[Mayor Mike Spano (Yonkers)]: Thank you, Senator.

[Assemblymember Jonathan Jacobson]: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Good to see everybody. The only one I think I haven't met is the mayor of Niagara Falls. And first time I've seen Sean in his new capacity. So welcome back as a mayor.

[Mayor Malik Evans (Rochester)]: Thank you, Jonathan.

[Assemblymember Jonathan Jacobson]: So I guess I was mentioning earlier today, and you guys have put in a long day, and I realize that. My big passion is to get rid of lead contaminated water lines. And the current system is terrible. Rochester seemed to navigate it a little better than some, but it's just that what you have is you have a version of the Hunger Games in the beginning to get the grants, which is crazy because everybody is frozen in its place. So what I'm trying to do, I'm trying to get in the budget if I can, I'll do legislation, is to have a program similar to CHIPS. In other words, get reimbursed at the end. And my idea is to get everybody first you certify that you did the results either by an engineer or the Department of Health. Secondly, the controller, treasurer, CEO certifies the cost, you'd be capped at $10,000 plus interest on the loans necessary to get it done. Because everybody is under a federal mandate to get it done by November 2037. So to me, it makes no sense to fight in the beginning, nothing happens and then go from there. Also, the Department of Health, Environmental Facilities Corp have not been keeping records. They can't tell you how many are out there, how many have been replaced when you've done all the water stuff because I'm head of the investigation committee in the assembly and we had long hearings on this. So I just want to bring that up because that's something that's sexy, not as exciting as so many other things. You're not going to have constituents coming up to you on that, you know, they're talking about potholes, they're talking about crime, they're talking about economic development, but this is still important. So, I just hope that all of you would make this a priority. It doesn't have to be your first or second priority, but, you know, maybe getting it top five or six And we'll be trying to help you on that.

[Mayor Mike Spano (Yonkers)]: So Assemblyman, you might what might help, which is probably not something I should be saying. But if it was a match grant, it's just a little easier for me. It's always nice when I get money straight up. But if I can go back and I wanna move an agenda, I could say, hey, guys. We'll get 2,000,000 if we put up 2,000,000. And that'll get us $4,000,000 worth of the problem solved.

[Assemblymember Jonathan Jacobson]: Right. Because the federal money is gone. That's a problem. You.

[Mayor Sean Ryan (Buffalo)]: The mandate remains, but the money is gone.

[Senator Liz Krueger (Chair, Senate Finance)]: Good line. Thank you.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow (Chair)]: You got what? No. All righty. Thassay Mendez.

[Assemblymember (unidentified, referred to as Mendez/Méndez)]: Good afternoon, mayors.

[Senator Monica R. Martinez (Chair, Senate Local Government)]: Good afternoon.

[Assemblymember (unidentified, referred to as Mendez/Méndez)]: One of the big things we're pushing right now is helping veterans outside of the downstate city. I mean, Yonkers, I mean, I grew up part of my life in Lower Westchester. You guys have a lot of veterans. We're trying to get two fifty I'm sorry, 25,250,000 for vets for the two hundred and fiftieth anniversary of the United States. How do you view what you guys are doing for veterans in your city briefly? And how can we be more helpful to you, the veterans in your cities?

[Mayor Mike Spano (Yonkers)]: I'll take it quick, if you don't mind. You know, we run an entire veterans office. We work alongside with the federal veterans office. So I think that's the best thing we can do. We've never cut that program. We don't cut the staff. We keep the staff there. They're readily available to our veterans. There's a lot of services that are provided. And obviously, they get the tax incentives. So if there's anything more we can do, we're willing to do it. But they get services. They get health care. They get support they need through our veteran offices. And we're going keep it Thank you. Mary?

[Mayor Sharon Owens (Syracuse)]: Again, similar to us, most of our veterans services are through our partners. Our veterans hospital would provide services to our vets, as well as Syracuse University just built a magnificent veteran center that provides, the entire plethora of services. Locally, trying to we do our hometown heroes as as as testament to our veterans. And, also, we are looking to work on a monument in one of our South Side parks for black and brown vets in our community. Assemblywoman Hunter is engaged in that project.

[Assemblymember (unidentified, referred to as Mendez/Méndez)]: Absolutely. We're looking at

[Mayor Dorcey Applyrs (Albany)]: Can I Please?

[Assemblymember (unidentified, referred to as Mendez/Méndez)]: I just want to switch to one thing very quickly. Apologize. The veterans. Chairwoman Solages has a bill working on the census. I also see speaker Men in here. We're pushing to make sure that the census is on the forefront. We talked about funding, AIM funding, all of that. There's a direct correlation. Is on the on the federal relations subcommittee. We want to make sure you guys are putting consensus on the front. I know it's in 2030, but I think that's also going to key to the funding because everyone talked about the exodus of New Yorkers. But in reality, we also have an undercounting of New Yorkers. And therefore, you're being underfunded. I know Yonkers specifically. I know Rochester, Syracuse I don't know about my I apologize, sir and Buffalo. And mayor Span, I know Yonkers specifically, I'm concerned about the immigration aspect. You have a large Latino population as do the rest of your your areas. But if they're undercounted, that means your money is being undercounted. And we need to fight for that. And so please put a focus on census. If you have an idea on that, it's eighteen seconds. Please go ahead. But it's it's your go on that.

[Mayor Malik Evans (Rochester)]: No. I'll just say amen. I mean, Yonkers and Rochester goes back and forth in in in terms of who who has more people. Sometimes Sometimes they have seven more, we have 20 more. I think both cities are extremely, extremely undercounted. Couldn't agree more. And Rochester has, for example, one of the largest immigrant populations in the state.

[Assemblymember (unidentified, referred to as Mendez/Méndez)]: Thank you.

[Assemblymember John T. McDonald III]: Well, that's great timing. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Good morning or good afternoon mayors, or good evening pretty soon. Being a former mayor for thirteen years, the recovery is going well. So I appreciate your work. I know how hard and difficult it is. And Mayor you had mentioned about AMAID. I caught bits and pieces of it, you know. It was like maybe like eighteen years ago. So think about it. A whole generation of our community has gone without seeing an increase in their municipalities' AIM increase. So just know, as from a former mayor and former president of NICOM, I am fully with you in regards to that regard.

[Mayor Dorcey Applyrs (Albany)]: Thank you.

[Assemblymember John T. McDonald III]: And I also am working with NICOM on the arterial maintenance aid. Heard a few people talking about that. That hasn't seen an increase since I think it was Ronald Reagan. Fortunately, we've had some of the touring route money to help some of the communities. But still, we have much more to do. Mayor Pleer, since you're a local mayor, going to ask a question no disrespect to the others. I love your testimony, your passion. You turned the lights back on here in the city of Albany. You talked about the Harriman campus. I wish we could find an ancestor to Averell Harriman to find out what he really hoped would be at the Harriman campus. Because now I'm on my fifth or sixth governor where we just haven't really made progress. Share with me a little bit about what you see or you hope to see there, but also about the pilot and the concept behind the $15,000,000 pilot. Is that something in perpetuity? Or one of the things that, remember, Faye and I talked about years ago was that as it developed, maybe we put more taxable property on it, we could actually work with that number up or down.

[Mayor Dorcey Applyrs (Albany)]: Thank you for that question. Some say that we are pretty landlocked within the city limits. But that is a huge piece of land that is untapped. I think what initially needs to happen in the same way that we've seen investments in just feasibility and reimagining July, that same level of investment is needed to reimagine the Harriman campus. So an initial investment for feasibility to see what the possibilities are. People get lost up there. There are a lot of loops and rings in terms of traffic. But thinking about how we can increase the housing stock given our housing crisis and demand, There's so much potential there. With the pilot, I think the pilot would go a long way. And a sustained pilot with a base amount at least $15,000,000 Again, goes a long way in the city of Albany, given some of our challenges. But that is a frontier that has really yet to be fully realized. And I think making those initial investments for feasibility will start the process of something coming fruition.

[Comptroller Mark Levine (New York City)]: You very

[Assemblymember John T. McDonald III]: much, all of you.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow (Chair)]: You. Thank you. Assemblywoman Jackson.

[Assemblymember Chantel Jackson]: Good evening, everyone. Evening. Welcome to Albany. I hail from The Bronx, but I spend a lot of time I've been to every last one of your cities, spent a lot of time there, especially last year when I did the listening tour for the Black Task Force as we advocated for $30,000,000 for nonprofits across the state. And so I had time to spend in every last one of your cities. And what made I just want you guys to know, my favorite museum happens to be the Strong Museum out of Rochester. That's My son loves that museum. So it makes me think about the tourism and what's available to people when they come and visit. And thinking about this being our two hundred and fiftieth year anniversary of our nation, what funding did you all get for celebrating the anniversary? And is there anything we can do to increase that to make sure tourism is live and well? And people look bewildered, so I'm wondering if they got any of the money.

[Mayor Dorcey Applyrs (Albany)]: I would just say that I am not aware of any funding that we have received. However, we are already planning events to commemorate and celebrate, but not aware of any funding. Got it.

[Mayor Mike Spano (Yonkers)]: We didn't get any additional funding on that, but we're funding it ourselves. It's an important celebration, and we're doing it.

[Senator Cordell Cleare]: Okay.

[Mayor Malik Evans (Rochester)]: Yeah, same. We a joint committee

[Assemblymember Michaelle C. Solages (Chair, Assembly Local Governments)]: with

[Mayor Malik Evans (Rochester)]: our county and city committee to celebrate the two fifty years where we have not gotten any dollars to help supplement that.

[Assemblymember Chantel Jackson]: Yeah, that makes me sad to hear. Likewise. Likewise. Okay, so I would I guess I'm going to figure out who and where the money went to. To my understanding, it went to, like, our state parks. If you don't have one, then maybe you didn't get the funding. But I would love to make sure that you guys increase tourism. I think that's really important because I enjoy being in each one of your cities.

[Senator (last name Ryan), Chair, Senate Cities Committee]: Thank you. Warren. Senator.

[Mayor Mike Spano (Yonkers)]: Assemblyman Manktelow, just one quick thing just for the senator. Senator Martinez. I misspoke before. We did not break the tax cap last year, so I apologize. Senator?

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow (Chair)]: Thank you for that update, mister mayor. Right. Assembly

[Assemblymember John T. McDonald III]: I wanna make sure

[Dustin Czarny (NYS Election Commissioners Association)]: I caught that on the record.

[Mayor Mike Spano (Yonkers)]: We didn't break I was just saying, senator, that we did I misspoke before. We did not break the tax cap last year.

[Senator Monica R. Martinez (Chair, Senate Local Government)]: You did not? Okay. Thank you.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow (Chair)]: Cap broke you.

[Mayor Dorcey Applyrs (Albany)]: The year before.

[Assemblymember Jo Anne Simon]: Joanne? JAMES So thank you all very much. I'm sorry for my delay getting to the microphone here. One of the things that a number of you testified to was about replacing lead water pipes. Do you have a sense amongst all the cities represented here how much that is going to cost around the state? And I'll ask you this question because I have a particular goal. And that is, I've been working very closely with a group of people on a national infrastructure bank, which will take some time to get past in DC, but would really be able to fund a tremendous amount of public infrastructure in a way that doesn't come out of our budgets kind of thing, right? And so I wanted to get a sense of what you think of that problem, how much you think it's going to cost, whatever it's going to cost today, it's going to cost more tomorrow. Any of you, if you have a sense of the overall cost for the cities in New York State? No?

[Mayor Dorcey Applyrs (Albany)]: I don't know that figure.

[Mayor Mike Spano (Yonkers)]: I don't know.

[Assemblymember Jo Anne Simon]: Would you mind thinking about it and letting me know? Because I'd

[Mayor Malik Evans (Rochester)]: like to mean, I know ours is the highest six figures that we've already spent, close to $50,000,000 already in replacing it. But to do it all by 2030 is still a couple more million dollars for sure.

[Speaker 4]: A couple

[Mayor Sharon Owens (Syracuse)]: more million And our number is 30 right now across the board, and understanding the one thing I do know, it's going to cost more every year. Exactly.

[Senator Cordell Cleare]: Yeah. Okay. Thank you.

[Mayor Sean Ryan (Buffalo)]: I would just note on that point, like in my municipality, we have a really high lead poisoning rate, but it's all from lead paint. Paint.

[Karen Wharton (Fair Elections for New York)]: Yeah.

[Mayor Sean Ryan (Buffalo)]: Okay. So I'll just speak for myself because other cities have taken more aggressive steps about inspection. But, you know, my problem is not lead pipes. You know, we put anti corrosive measures in our water system. We test it. We do not have problematic lead levels, but we're being told by the federal government, we have to replace all those pipes. But, you know, high ninety percent of kids in Buffalo who are poisoned are being poisoned by eating lead chips. Mhmm. But I may have to be spend the money that I would be spending on a lead paint removal program to remove pipes that often don't need to be removed.

[Mayor Sharon Owens (Syracuse)]: Okay. Assembly person, I agree. The emphasis has been lead pipes. It is paint.

[Assemblymember Phil Palmesano (Ranking Member, Assembly Transportation/Cities)]: Yeah, it's

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow (Chair)]: the

[Mayor Sharon Owens (Syracuse)]: wrong And my only source for lead paint is the federal government, which terrifies me.

[Mayor Sean Ryan (Buffalo)]: Yeah.

[Assemblymember Jo Anne Simon]: Oh, great. Thank you.

[Mayor Sean Ryan (Buffalo)]: Our number is $1,300,000,000 to replace all our lead pipes with a water supply that has no noticeable lead in it.

[Assemblymember Jo Anne Simon]: And do you know how much it would cost replace the paint? I mean, paint is WOODRUFF: a big deal. Think

[Mayor Sean Ryan (Buffalo)]: It's way cheaper. It's inspectors. It's encapsulation. It's way, way cheaper.

[Mayor Mike Spano (Yonkers)]: JULIE Okay.

[Assemblymember MaryJane Shimsky]: Thank Just you.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow (Chair)]: A few missteps from me. I have a lot of questions. First of all, for the life of me, I can't figure out why any of you want to be mayors of any big city.

[Senator Roxanne J. Persaud]: And

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow (Chair)]: I'm looking at three of you right here. No, Sean and Mike, you both left lofty position of legislator and jumped into the fire. Mayor Apples, you were the treasurer. You knew where all the bones are buried. And you still jumped in the cemetery.

[Mayor Dorcey Applyrs (Albany)]: Yeah, I was the city auditor.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow (Chair)]: DAVID B. O'Grady: So you knew who this was. Just a couple of questions. Mayor Ryan, you'd mentioned that some legislation that you needed to change the Homestead Act or change what have you gone through the process yet? I know you just got there a couple of weeks ago. But go through the process of doing the home rule and getting the legislatures to move on that to help you with that situation?

[Mayor Sean Ryan (Buffalo)]: I don't believe it's a home rule question. But if home rule counsel tells us it is, we will go through.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow (Chair)]: Well, the assembly home rule is a lot tougher than the Senate home rule, and you came from

[Mayor Mike Spano (Yonkers)]: harder. JOSHUA

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow (Chair)]: So I'm pretty sure it is a home rule type thing. And the process to do that is for the city council to have a resolution, to send a resolution to the legislature. We do a bill. They do a home rule asking that the bill be passed. And hopefully, your representatives do what you need them to do. And that may be the same case with Niagara Falls, but you have a different situation with your representation. So maybe that'll change to get things back on track.

[Mayor Sean Ryan (Buffalo)]: It's good advice. Thank you.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow (Chair)]: I think it's a good project. May Hispano, two things for you. First of all M. O'Pharrow. MGM, I'm going to start off there. That was a done deal, and then it wasn't. I know the city had depended on a good deal of revenue to be derived from that. And I do know that the corporation has said that they were going to close, which I think would be detrimental to the city, especially given the fact that they currently pay an additional $19,500,000 of taxes to the school district, which I'll get to after this. Is there any hope in trying to maintaining the relationship between the city and that entity?

[Mayor Mike Spano (Yonkers)]: I have met with MGM on at least three occasions since they made the decision. Yeah. I mean, their their concern is Mhmm. There's gonna be three casinos very, very close to them. And what will be the viability of the track once they build those casinos. And they've said they would close, but they're not saying that now. They said that in the beginning. Now what does that what does it mean? You know, some of them, they might be trying to get us set so they could sell the place for all we know. We do know this. It's a 100 acres just outside probably the most valuable piece of property between Manhattan and Albany. It's a huge valuable piece of property, and there's 5,500 slot machines on it. Right? So there's a value there.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow (Chair)]: Right.

[Mayor Mike Spano (Yonkers)]: What that value really means, depends if we can come up with some additional partners. Ivy is one of the people we're speaking to and some others. They may wanna come in and and actually take a parcel of property and do something with it and give us some type of entertainment venue. That's what we're hoping for, but we're still having discussions. Those casinos are still not built, so it's still generating. It's a very loyal bunch of people that go there. They'll probably do 600,000,000 again this year and maybe next year. But once those casinos are built, we're gonna have a problem. That's why we have to come up with

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow (Chair)]: a Well, I I don't think it's gonna be as bad as is being predicted because the bulk of the revenue to any casino are the machines. And I believe that people, if their machine players, will prefer going to an easier, more accessible location in the city of Yonkers than going to a place where it's hard to eat, like going to Cornell, you can't get there from here. You know, it's difficult to get there. I think that they'll still maintain a good viability. It won't be as much, but I think they'll maintain their viability. And the law says that they have to maintain the payments to the horsemen. So that's not going to be a draw on their revenue. So the slot revenue that they get, they'll continue to receive. And the SOA, the Horsemen Association, will get what they're supposed to get. I guess by a raise of hands, are all of you in deficit right now budget wise? Anybody? You are, you are, you are, you're not oh, Niagara Falls. You turn slowly and give anyway, I know that I just had a conversation with the superintendent of Yonkers, and the number that was quoted is really a big number. And I don't know what we can do to fix it. I know the regional cost index changes will be beneficial to at least the downstate, you. You're the only downstate person. I don't know whether that, though, becomes detrimental to upstate. I'm not sure how that shifts, because usually we're just doing a dollar shift. We're not creating any new money or anything. Syracuse, do you have a charter school issue?

[Mayor Sharon Owens (Syracuse)]: Yes. I was just with our superintendent yesterday. And it is the burden of the public school to be able to provide particularly care for kids with special needs. Our district is responsible, whether it is charter or parochial, to care for those children. We are also it is also the oversight that is a concern. There seems to be a disparity in the funding that goes to charter schools but also goes to public schools. We have three, I believe. I might get in trouble. Three,

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow (Chair)]: three, That's a lot. Have three. We

[Mayor Sharon Owens (Syracuse)]: have three.

[Mayor Sean Ryan (Buffalo)]: Do you

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow (Chair)]: have any idea how many students are you're paying tuition for the charter schools?

[Mayor Sharon Owens (Syracuse)]: No. The one thing that the the the superintendent said to me very poignantly is that they attract young kids to the children to the school. But if they have behavioral problems or if there are mental health or behavioral issues, they're right back to the public school. And what does that mean to students who are already, you know, struggling to, you welcome me into a school, and then because I'm struggling, you're taking me back to my public school. Who welcomes them wholeheartedly? It really taking a look at that structure because the burden of the care of those students still remains with public schools.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow (Chair)]: Well, what happens is tuition that you pay to a charter school is based on what your cost per child is

[Mayor Sharon Owens (Syracuse)]: Exactly.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow (Chair)]: In the public school. Exactly. Every time you send, they take a student from you and send you back a more difficult to teach student, that raises your cost per student. And when you raise your cost per student because you have more hard to teach students, it also increases the amount of money the charter schools get. So if you do the math on this, it eventually is like the house keeps taking the cut Absolutely. And there's nothing left in the pot. That's what's happening with charter schools. And over the course of time, they're going be taking all of the money and leaving all of the more difficult to teach students in your schools. Mayor Evans, do have the same situation?

[Mayor Malik Evans (Rochester)]: Yeah, I think it's a similar challenge. I think the number of kids in charters in the city are approaching a number of kids that are in the district schools. So yeah, I think it's a challenge. But I think the special needs, the behavior, those type of issues are things that challenges for the district.

[Mayor Sharon Owens (Syracuse)]: I have to mention that we're very proud of our regional STEAM high school science tech technology, engineering, arts, math. It is the first in New York State. You all helped fund it. Each year, it is a there is a ratio of city school kids of 60% to 40 around the county. And so it we have our first class in the school. This year, we'll be bringing on our second class, and it has been built in a historic old school room in Downtown Syracuse. We're very proud

[Mayor Mike Spano (Yonkers)]: of it.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow (Chair)]: G. Aplis, I know you have an independent school district, but Albany is where this whole thing started. I think there are more charter schools in the City Of Albany than any place else in the state, including New York City for that. Maybe not New York City, but there are a lot of charter schools. And this is where they started. There are lot of for profit charter schools in the City Of Albany. Right now, we've banded to it. So does that make it difficult for you as the leader of the City Of Albany to maintain good funding toward your citizens?

[Mayor Dorcey Applyrs (Albany)]: I don't think that's the case. And I know that historically, in the city of Albany, in particular because we have so many charter schools, it's been a very contentious issue. But there has been a norm change. While there's still some who some of the same issues that were brought up, some of our hard to teach students are going back to public, we've seen even recently an increase in charter schools with a new high school.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow (Chair)]: You can finish.

[Mayor Dorcey Applyrs (Albany)]: So has not been presented as a bigger issue at this stage, to my understanding.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow (Chair)]: Thank you. And thank you all for all that you do. And keep up the good work. Thank you.

[Assemblymember Jonathan Jacobson]: You. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

[Senator Liz Krueger (Chair, Senate Finance)]: Get home safe.

[Mayor Sean Ryan (Buffalo)]: Yes.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow (Chair)]: Okay. Senator, you gave me a look. Please let the mayors go home to govern their cities. MaryJane and MaySpana, can you go outside, please? Just go outside. All right. This is our third panel. Is he controlling something? Can someone text him?

[Assemblymember (unidentified; introduced as “Assemblyman Levene”)]: Okay.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow (Chair)]: I think you just want to make an entrance. You you just mosey down the stairs like you were on time. Not a problem. We're going to convene. This is panel this is called panel B. We have the Honorable Mark Levene in control of the City Of New York, and the Honorable Julie Minin, Speaker of the New York City Council. You each have ten minutes to make your presentations. Mr. Chair. Me, warm up. It's officially evening. It's after 05:00.

[Comptroller Mark Levine (New York City)]: Good afternoon, Chairs Kruger and Pretlow, Bottcher, Burke, Ryan, Martinez, and Jones, and members of all the relevant committees. Very happy to be here with my partner in government, City Council Speaker Julie Menon. As New York City Comptroller, it is my responsibility to provide an independent assessment of the city's fiscal and economic condition, candidly and without sugarcoating. You are accustomed to hearing comptrollers discuss budget gaps at this hearing, but the scale of the fiscal pressures we face today goes well beyond what you have heard from this table in many years. We face this challenge at a moment of contradictions for New York City. The stock market is at an all time high.

[Senator Roxanne J. Persaud]: Thank you.

[Comptroller Mark Levine (New York City)]: The Dow's above 50,000 for the first time ever. Yet, nearly 90,000 New Yorkers slept in our shelters last night. Tax receipts are up significantly this year, as they were last year. Yet, we're facing our largest budget gap since the great recession. New York City remains the economic engine of New York State, sending far more to Albany than we receive in return. And yet, we are also home to the largest number of low income families in the state. Nearly one in four New Yorkers living in poverty. That's 2,000,000 people, including 420,000 children. I will use my allotted time here today to explain what is behind each of those contradictions, and what we can do about them. Over the past months, I've been asked many times a version of the same question. How bad is it? How bad is our budget really? Here are the facts. My office's most recent analysis, which I'll caution is based on data from December, projects a $2,200,000,000 mid year budget gap, and a shortfall of 10,400,000,000.0 in fiscal year twenty twenty seven. I understand that today, Mayor Mamdani has released updated projections. I look forward to reviewing them once his team shares the details of their calculations. We'll be releasing our own updated assessment on March 11, based on the latest available data. And I can say today that we expect to further revise revenue projections upward. Wage growth and Wall Street profit profits and bonuses have been strong, and the city's office market is rebounding more quickly than it is in any other part of the nation. As a result, we expect tax revenues, particularly the personal income tax, will come in higher than was projected in November, lowering, but not eliminating the gaps. As we look ahead, my office projects moderate economic growth in 2026 and 2027. But warning signs, weak job creation and hiring headwinds for recent graduates, could slow that progress. At the same time, federal uncertainty looms over the city's finances, including possible cuts to our federal grants and to essential programs like SNAP and Medicaid that could leave the city to fill the gap. Despite these concerns ahead, as of today, our city's economy is strong and our revenues are up. So why do we have a budget gap? What's going on here? In no small part, we are paying the price now for the questionable budget practices of years past. First, chronic under budgeting of known recurring costs has obscured the true cost of ongoing obligations, making it harder to fully understand, plan for, and reasonably addressed rising long term expenses. Second, one time accounting measures used in the last budget cycle are now exhausted. And third, the absence of systematic annual efficiency reviews has limited the city's ability to tighten operations in a disciplined way. In recent weeks, I've been clear on my critiques about these practices, especially the persistent under budgeting of recurring costs. I commend mayor Mamdani for acknowledging these challenges rather than simply kicking the can down the road. I'll continue to push for our city to better to adopt better fiscal practices going forward. Because when we get this right, it will bring greater stability and long term strength to our budget. But this is not the whole story. Our fiscal fate also very much depends on how we fare in the state budget. I'm happy to say that there's good news in Governor Hochul's proposed executive budget for the coming year. I strongly support the proposed historic expansion of childcare, including the creation of Universal two ks program, the stabilization of three ks, and increased child care voucher funding. These investments recognize that child care is, among many other benefits, essential economic infrastructure. To fully capitalize on the governor's investment, I strongly urge the legislature to adopt the $1,200,000,000 child care workforce compensation fund proposed by the Alliance for Quality Education. Without this investment in higher wages, we will continue to lose educators to the public school system, destabilizing the very sector we are trying to expand. Earlier, I spoke about the contradiction of New York City being both the economic engine for the state, and home to millions living in poverty. How does that contradiction show up in the state budget? The answer is simple. The city's economy sends billions more to Albany each year than we receive in return. By one estimate, more than 20,000,000,000. Yes, this imbalance is in part reflective of the strength of our financial sector and other industries that generate substantial state tax revenue. And that's fair. But the imbalance also exists because in program after program, the city pays more or receives less than other parts of the state. And that is not fair. These disparities are not new. Most have been in place for years, some for decades. But they reflect a long series of decisions to shift financial burdens to the city, leaving an imbalance that has widened over time, and is increasingly unsustainable. Here are a few of the most egregious examples. Public health article six funding. New York City is unique in receiving only 20 reimbursement of its core public health costs, compared with 36% for other localities. An impact estimated at $90,000,000 annually. Child care match. Changes enacted by enacted last year require New York City to contribute 328,000,000 annually to meet its maintenance of effort requirement for child care assistance. Outside of New York City, local contributions are frozen at nineteen ninety five levels, resulting in the city now covering approximately 95% of the total local match statewide. Family assistance. In fiscal years 2020 and 2021, the state began requiring only New York City to contribute first 10%, and then 15% of the cost of family assistance grants, costing the city approximately 200,000,000 annually. Other localities are not required to contribute before accessing these funds. Raise the age. New York City is alone, is in being ineligible for state funding to implement raise the age reforms, despite serving more than half of the state's eligible population. As a result, the city is unable to access approximately 125,000,000 annually in funding that is otherwise going unspent statewide. Assistance to distressed hospitals. New York City is the only local government required to contribute a 150,000,000 in sales tax revenue annually to the statewide fund for fiscally distressed and safety net hospitals. And then, yes, there is AIM funding. New York City is the only major municipality excluded from aid and incentives for municipalities. If the city received the average per capita amount received by other municipalities, we would receive over $2,000,000,000 annually. And there's education. I am grateful for the governor's proposal to increase foundation aid for New York City by 3.5% this year. But this still leaves the $314,000,000 loss resulting from last year's changes unrecovered. Moreover, the current formula does not fully reflect New York City's higher costs or the needs of our students. An updated formula should incorporate a regional cost index and better account for our most vulnerable children, including students in temporary housing, multilingual learners, and students with disabilities. Also ahead is the remaining implementation of the state class size law. As you know, this legislation designates the comptroller to certify whether the city's capital and education financial plans are sufficient to meet the state's class size reduction mandate. Chancellor Samuels has indicated that meeting next year's mandate will require hiring at least 600,000 additional teachers by September, at an annual cost exceeding 602,000,000. My office's independent projections indicate similar unmet funding needs in fiscal year twenty seven, and unmet needs of more than 1,000,000,000 in the year starting in 2028. While the city is still in the process of determining capital needs, they could also be substantial. And these amounts are not yet accounted for in the city's financial plan. The state executive budget correctly identifies transit as the backbone of our region. And I applaud the investments at Jamaica Station and the 2nd Avenue Subway Crosstown Extension, which are critical to economic growth. Can I just wrap up with two more sentences, mister chair? Okay. Thank you so much. Let me close where I began with contradictions. We are a city of record Wall Street profits and rising revenues, yet tens of thousands sleep in shelters. A city that fuels the state's economy, yet carries a disproportionate share of poverty, a city with economic strength, yet facing one of the largest budget gaps in years. These contradictions are the result of choices. We have a chance now to make better choices in this budget, and I look forward to partnering with all of you to make that happen.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow (Chair)]: Thank you, mister Jeff. Controller, but I don't know what school you went to, but that was two sentences. That was more like two paragraphs. And lots of commas.

[Comptroller Mark Levine (New York City)]: I should have run it through chat, GPT. I'm sorry about that.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow (Chair)]: Madam Speaker.

[Council Speaker Julie Menin (New York City Council)]: Thank you so much. First of all, I want to say good evening, everyone. And I want to thank chairs Pretlow, Krueger, Butcher, Birch, Senator Omara, members of the Senate Finance, Assembly Ways and Means, and Cities Committee. I'm Julie Menon, speaker of the New York City Council. I'm delighted to be here, along with my colleague, Controller Levene, my colleague in the council, Council Member Linda Lee, who chairs our Finance Committee, and our Finance Director, Richard Lee. I first of all want to thank Governor Hochul, Senate Majority Leader Stuart Cousins, and Assembly Speaker Hasty for their leadership and their strong partnership with us. At a moment of fiscal uncertainty driven by federal hurdles and rising costs, we in the city council are approaching this budget with a clear goal in mind to ensure New York City is livable and affordable, not just in the present for our children, but in the future for the next generation as well. It will take responsible stewards of public resources to deliver this vision, focused as much on tomorrow's agenda as on long term planning. My oral testimony today will touch upon just a couple of our key priorities and the impacts of proposals in the executive budget on New York City. My full written testimony is much longer, and we've submitted it and includes a much more comprehensive agenda. So I want to start with federal headwinds and state cost shifts. New York City's budget is increasingly being strained by federal decisions that reduce funding and state decisions that are shifting costs onto localities. And these strains undermine our ability to keep the city affordable and invest in long term stability. While New York City is more than willing to do its part, we should not be unfairly burdened and relied upon as a means for state budgetary relief. Historically, for instance, the city has not contributed to the state's cost for SNAP administration, but the executive budget assumes that the city will cover $111,000,000 At a time when food insecurity remains elevated and families are still feeling the effects of inflation, shifting these costs onto the city would force us to choose between sustaining our own safety net and absorbing federal cuts that the state is frankly better positioned to manage. The state should continue to fully cover this expense rather than shifting costs to the city and other localities. Affordability lives and dies with working families. And every single dollar spent helping them afford childcare is a dollar that circulates back into the local economy. To be clear, our city council has been working on universal childcare since 2022 and supports any additional funding we can secure to ensure that every New York family gets the relief they deserve. The council fully backs a proposed increase of $235,000,000 for three ks and pre k funding, which increases the state funding for the first time since fiscal year twenty nineteen. The executive budget also includes a dedicated $73,000,000 for a pilot to increase the number of two year old slots in New York City. And when it comes to ACS vouchers for childcare, the city is asking for $577,000,000 that would serve the current caseload and fulfill those families that are on the waiting list. To give our youth a real shot at long term economic mobility, we must also think long term. When I served as commissioner of the Department of Consumer Affairs, I was proud to launch a universal college savings program called NYC Kids Rise, which gives every single public school kindergartner in New York City a five twenty nine account, seed money and access to additional investments. Research shows that higher educational attainment leads to substantially higher earnings over a lifetime, with college graduates earning nearly 60% more than those with a high school diploma. Since launching in 2017, I'm proud to say we've established over 340,000 college savings accounts that total more than $50,000,000 and that's money that can be used for vocational school or community college or any college. Now we want to expand this program and we're proposing to invest $1,000 for every public school kindergartner in New York City and $3,000 for children with the highest need. This would remain universal with targeted investments of our new program NYC Future Funds invested in the five twenty nine, which will grow each and every year. This will be a cost of a total of $180,000,000 of which we believe the state should invest $90,000,000 I want to move on to housing and homelessness. Housing is at the core of whether families can imagine a future in New York City. We appreciate the state's investments to date, but the magnitude of this affordable housing crisis requires more ambitious, sustained partnership. The council welcomes state support for affordable development and preservation, specifically its contribution in fiscal year twenty twenty six of $1,000,000,000 towards a historic City Of Yes housing plan, which should create more than 82,000 new homes. We also support the new state housing investments included in the fiscal year twenty twenty seven executive budget, including $250,000,000 for affordable housing statewide. In December 2021, state FEPS rates were increased to match the city FEPS rates, but the state did not provide additional funding to cover this higher cost, leaving the city to fund the difference. This cost shift has occurred alongside an increase in the number of New Yorkers applying for housing rental vouchers, another indication of the affordability crisis. To fund the increased use of the vouchers as well as expansion gap of the rates, we are advocating that the state invest an additional $100,000,000 Many NYCHA buildings are in a state of significant disrepair with an estimated $80,000,000,000 in capital needs statewide. Although the state has been supportive of NYCHA in the past, dollars $720,000,000 in capital funding remains unspent since 2021. The state and NYCHA must effectively collaborate to quickly disperse its remaining balance and resolve the disrepair. And looking ahead, the council calls on the state to add an additional billion dollars in capital funding each year for NICHA over the next four years to support urgent repairs. Want to move on to immigration. Central to our identity and economy is New York City's status as a sanctuary city. But with senseless attacks on our immigrant communities across the city, the federal government has continued to undermine it. As Albany considers legislation to protect our friends and our neighbors, we know New Yorkers deserve to be safe, and they deserve to trust that our justice system is fair and effective. Securing access to legal representation is far harder than it should be, and we must increase funding to community based organizations like NILAG, Catholic Charities, and the New York Immigration Coalition, who make it easier by funding legal counsel, immigration hotlines, and vital trainings. State policy should strengthen protections for immigrant New Yorkers, particularly in light of brutal, dangerous crackdowns by federal entities across the country. This includes our very own city council employee, Rafael Rubio, who is a data analyst at the city council who was detained by ICE during a routine check-in, even though he had all of the correct authorizations to live and work in The United States. We are still doing everything possible we can to secure his immediate release from ICE custody. The effects of ICE linger beyond the fear they stoke in the streets. Their presence has the potential to hinder the accuracy of census results. And as we think about the city's long term fiscal health, we cannot ignore the 2030 census. The executive budget's proposed $3,000,000 for census activities is a start, but it's far below what is needed for a state of our size and complexity. Based on current trends, New York is projected to lose two or three more congressional seats, as well as billions of dollars of federal funds in 2030 if we do not act now. I previously served as head of the 2020 census efforts for New York City. We invested $40,000,000 in our efforts with unbelievable results,

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow (Chair)]: one of

[Council Speaker Julie Menin (New York City Council)]: the best rates of returns on any city investment. That $40,000,000 investment meant that we in New York City finished number one of all cities across the country, which means that that funds over 300 important programs, SNAP, Head Start, our schools, public safety, our bridges, infrastructure. But specifically, that $40,000,000 investment that we made meant a return of an additional $1,800,000,000 per year over the next decade that goes back to New York City. So I do, again, want to very much urge the state to invest at least $40,000,000 in early census preparation, which will be critical with these attacks on immigrant communities. In conclusion, the council stands ready to be a financial steward of our city's budget, because that is what government needs, and that is what New York City deserves. We are very excited to continue to work with the governor and legislature to ensure New York City remains a place where people can afford to build a life and imagine a future for their families. Thank you so much for the opportunity to testify today. I look forward to your questions.

[Senator (last name Ryan), Chair, Senate Cities Committee]: Thank you.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow (Chair)]: Assemblyman Dinowitz, three minutes.

[Assemblymember Jeffrey Dinowitz]: Okay. First, congratulations, control Levene and speaker Menon. I'm very pleased that you're both in your positions. The question actually is for the speaker. As we all know, on 10/07/2023, the terrorist organization Hamas unprovoked attacked Israel, killing, murdering 1,200 people. 250 people were kidnapped. Others were sexually assaulted. And shockingly, maybe not so shockingly, we experienced the greatest surge of anti Semitism since that time, both in terms of hate crimes, violent hate crimes, hate speech. And this has been particularly true in New York City. And I was just wondering what you're hoping to do with the council in terms of legislation. Of course, there are fiscal implications, I'm sure, to some of it. But how are you hoping to tackle that?

[Council Speaker Julie Menin (New York City Council)]: Well, thank you very much, Assembly member, for your question. I am the first Jewish speaker of the city council. That's something I take great pride in. I'm the daughter of a Holocaust survivor. The rise in anti Semitic incidents in our city. Right now, 57% of hate crimes are against the Jewish community, yet the Jewish population is between 1011% of our city. It's completely unacceptable. About two weeks ago, we launched the city council's five point plan to combat antisemitism, which includes legislation that will create buffer zones around all houses of worship and all schools. These bills in no way penalize the First Amendment right to peacefully protest, which is sacrosanct. What they do is they prohibit intimidation and harassment, and they ensure that those that are going to their house of worship or their school can enter and exit freely. In addition, we've created a hotline to report not only anti Semitic incidents, but Islamophobic incidents, anti LGBTQ, anti Asian hate, all different types of hate. So there's now a dedicated hotline that we are creating. We also are providing security for smaller houses of worship, many of which cannot afford. And then lastly, we are disseminating $1,250,000 to the Museum of Jewish Heritage to build on a program I launched several years ago that brings every public school eighth grade student to the permanent Holocaust exhibition. Because studies show that 34% of young people believe the Holocaust is a myth or is exaggerated. 34%. And the only way, in my humble opinion, to combat that is through education. Education is simply the best antidote to combat hate. So I greatly appreciate your question. It's something I take very seriously. It's something this council is going to take very seriously with meaningful action to combat anti Semitism and all forms of hate.

[Assemblymember Jeffrey Dinowitz]: Great. Thank you very much.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow (Chair)]: I'm sorry.

[Senator Liz Krueger (Chair, Senate Finance)]: Let's try the Senate,

[Speaker 4]: then we'll go

[Mayor Sean Ryan (Buffalo)]: to the

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow (Chair)]: Senate. Let's try the Senate. Okay.

[Senator Liz Krueger (Chair, Senate Finance)]: Senator Eric Bacher, who's only been a senator for a couple days, but you all know him better in the city since, oh, one, we all come from Manhattan, and he was our city council member until three days ago or something ridiculous. But now he's chair of the New York City Committee.

[Senator Erik Bottcher (Chair, Senate New York City Committee)]: Thank you. Thank you, Chair Kruger. Sorry. Just have a question. My first question is for Comptroller Levene. Mr. Comptroller, today the mayor reported to us that they've revisited their estimate of the budget gap from $12,000,000,000 down to $7,000,000,000 I want to know if you agree with that new figure, what information you've received about it.

[Comptroller Mark Levine (New York City)]: Thank you, Senator. It feels very good to use that title. We already miss you in the borough of Manhattan.

[Senator Erik Bottcher (Chair, Senate New York City Committee)]: I'm still in the borough. I'm only up here a couple days a week.

[Comptroller Mark Levine (New York City)]: Okay, very good, very good. Look, as as I mentioned, we are going to be issuing updated forecasts in March. We do expect to revise revenue up as Wall Street and the financial industries continue to do well. I'm anxious to hear details behind how the mayor's team has got to their calculation. I will say that we see the same incoming data daily on non income tax receipts that they that they do, And that our team feels that that their forecast on revenue is a bit aggressive. But we'll know for sure what our models are saying in a few weeks, and and we'll come back to you with the update.

[Senator Erik Bottcher (Chair, Senate New York City Committee)]: On first blush, it seems like 7,000,000,000 is a little optimistic.

[Comptroller Mark Levine (New York City)]: Yeah. I I look, it it could end up being accurate because of the the strength of of the stock market and related industries, and and actually every category of taxes is increasing, including property tax and income tax, etcetera. But, you know, my job is to give you the most accurate assessment I can without leaning one way or another. And at the moment, as I said, it feels a little aggressive, but but but we'll come back to you with an update. And I I promise we'll call it like it is.

[Senator Erik Bottcher (Chair, Senate New York City Committee)]: What do you think about the $1,000,000,000 estimate of savings that could be achieved through the chief savings officers? What do you think about that figure?

[Senator Mark Walczyk]: I

[Comptroller Mark Levine (New York City)]: think there's a billion dollars to be achieved in efficiency savings in New York City government. I will caution that when we balance a budget with what is essentially a placeholder, which is what that would be at this point, we really have to do the follow through to make sure that those savings are achieved. So again, those we're not going to know for some time exactly what kind of savings will be implemented agency by agency. What we're going to have now is a placeholder at a fairly large number. And certainly as comptroller, I'm going be pushing to make sure we have some accountability on how those savings are ultimately achieved.

[Senator Erik Bottcher (Chair, Senate New York City Committee)]: SPEAKER Has your office presented a number of potential savings? Have you gotten into that, or that's simply on the mayor's

[Assemblymember (unidentified, referred to as Mendez/Méndez)]: side currently?

[Comptroller Mark Levine (New York City)]: Typically on the mayor's side. We will certainly be evaluating when they offer details next Tuesday. We're gonna know a lot more then. And as I mentioned, we're gonna make sure that when when you have those kinds of placeholders that we actually live up to achieving those savings.

[Senator Erik Bottcher (Chair, Senate New York City Committee)]: Which leads me to my question for Speaker Menon, welcome, and Chair Lee. So great to see you here. We, as former colleagues in the city council, have been through budget after budget where the mayor makes cuts. And typically, the dynamic is the mayor makes cuts and we fight against those cuts because we don't want to see services diminished. We don't want to see unfilled staffing positions remain unfilled. We get complaints from constituents about city services, oftentimes because there's unfilled positions. A lot of those positions that were unfilled under Adams, they're still unfilled. And now we're looking at the prospect of more cuts. How will you, as the city council, how are you going to work with this mayor this budget cycle?

[Council Speaker Julie Menin (New York City Council)]: Well, thank you so much for the question. And let me just say, Senator Batcher, we miss you and the city council. Our loss is Albany's gain. And we wish you the best of luck. It's great to see you. This budget dance question is a very interesting question. I have been in government a long time. I've run three city agencies as commissioner. I've seen many different relationships between mayors and speakers over the many years. The whole idea of the budget dance is somewhat problematic because it really puts everyone through this back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. And it's something actually I've spoken to the mayor about. We want to make sure that we are not putting New Yorkers through any kind of drama, any kind of back and forth that we don't need to do that. We wanna be upfront, clear, transparent about where things are at and what the priorities are, and I'm confident that we'll be able to have that collaboration and do that. And I think that's really important. What I'm focused on in particular in terms of the council is we're looking at savings. So for example, I've been focused for a long time on the long term use of no bid contracts, where cities suspend competitive bidding and it drives up the cost. We saw that during COVID where the city suspended the use of no bid contracts over 100 times to the tune of $7,000,000,000 and it jacked up the price of PPE. We saw it in the last administration, where during the asylum seeker crisis, no bid contracts were used, a $1,100,000,000 no bid contract to the Hotel Association, a $430,000,000 no bid contract to And we saw the results of this. So we actually are passing, and these are bills that I had introduced last year, we're passing these bills that are going to cut down on that and could save the city billions and billions of dollars. We're also looking at cost savings around health care. We created, as you know, the Office of Health Care Accountability, which basically I

[Senator Erik Bottcher (Chair, Senate New York City Committee)]: voted for it.

[Council Speaker Julie Menin (New York City Council)]: Thank you, thank you. And now the office is up and running at the Department of Health, and basically what that office does is it lists the price of every medical procedure at every New York City hospital because transparency matters. A woman who's giving birth by C section at one hospital is paying $55,000 for that C section. At another New York City hospital, that same C section is $17,000 So I mention that because the City Of New York spends about 10% of its budget on public sector and retiree independent health care. That's $11,000,000,000 that we spend. And five years ago, that number was $6,000,000,000 It's almost doubled in five years. It's unsustainable. So we want to now harness our purchasing power to drive costs down. And so that is something that we are very focused on and could save the city billions of dollars per year. So we are laser like focused on areas of potential savings. And let me turn it over to our finance chair, Councilmember Lee, to see if she's anything to add.

[Council Member Linda Lee (NYC Council Finance Chair)]: So looking at it from a cost savings perspective, so before my role on the city council, I ran a nonprofit organization, started a state license Article 31 clinic, which was one of the hardest things we had to do. Very eye opening experience in terms of the whole health care system in general in New York State. And I think that's why I know the comptroller mentioned it, but that's why we're looking at things like Article six, right? Because even though that is $59,000,000 that we're asking to restore, I think when we look at it from a savings perspective down the line, we know that a lot of those services that are paid for, it's all about prevention. And prevention is key when we're talking about keeping the costs in our health care system low for the city and the state. And so that's something else that I wanted to emphasize, just to piggyback on that. And another thing we're trying to do is keeping the insurance companies accountable, which the speaker is starting an insurance accountability office or wanting to do that because this is something where, as a former provider, we're getting charged different rates depending on different private insurance companies. And there's no rhyme or reason to it. It seems more profit driven versus outcomes driven. And we need to start looking at the metrics to see, is this having a positive impact on our city and our community?

[Senator Erik Bottcher (Chair, Senate New York City Committee)]: Does the council's finance division have estimate of what the budget gap is? Is it 12? Is it seven? Is it something else?

[Council Speaker Julie Menin (New York City Council)]: So we are going to be releasing our projections in the next couple of weeks. We believe very strongly that, first of all, Wall Street had a very, very strong year. And so including those bonuses that occurred at the December and going into early January is imperative for an accurate picture. We also believe there are additional savings that can be realized at various city agencies, because it's not just about the projected number of employees at any given agency. It's about the actual number of employees that are actually working at those city agencies. So we do believe there are going to be significant areas of savings, and we look forward to releasing our budget numbers in the coming weeks.

[Senator Erik Bottcher (Chair, Senate New York City Committee)]: Thank you.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow (Chair)]: Now Assemblyman Levene.

[Assemblymember (unidentified; introduced as “Assemblyman Levene”)]: Thanks for being with us and for your commitment to our community. I was very troubled to read a recent report from the city's Economic Development Corporation. And it dealt with the effect, the real life economic and real life effects of Trump's tariffs and federal economic chaos. And I'm just gonna bring two things, two troublesome things to your attention, to our attention. 8,400 businesses in New York City closed in the 2025. That's the largest net decline since pre pandemic days. Secondly, the labor market in the city, its numbers have decreased substantially. In 2025, the private sector added only 18,500 jobs. That's down 90,000 from 2024. This affects small businesses and we need without our small businesses, we die. We die economically and socially. So my question to you, to both of you, is working together, what steps can we take to protect our economy?

[Council Speaker Julie Menin (New York City Council)]: Okay. I'll go and then I'll turn it over to the controller. I couldn't agree with you more, and I think that the picture on the jobs is even more dire than that report says. Basically, last year, 33,000 jobs were created. And if you compare that to the last four years, on average, 187,000 jobs were created each and every year since the pandemic. We must keep businesses here. We must attract new businesses to our city. If we do not do that, we are going to lose incredible amounts of revenue and competitiveness. Right now, the state of Texas has the same number of jobs in the financial sector as New York. And that is not what happened. Even at fifteen years ago, we had almost triple the number of jobs in the financial sector. So we are hemorrhaging jobs, and we need to be honest about it, and we need to counteract that. I previously served as commissioner of media and entertainment, where we work to bring jobs in the media and the tech and the entertainment sector to New York. We need to create biotech corridors. We need to reduce fines on our small businesses. We need to make it easier for businesses to operate. There is so much that we need to do. I know the time is short, so let me turn it to the controller.

[Comptroller Mark Levine (New York City)]: As someone remember, picture's even more dire when you look at job creation by sector. The only sector where New York City added jobs in the past year is in healthcare, specifically home healthcare aids, which tend to pay not much more than minimum wage. Across the entire rest of the private sector economy, we lost jobs in New York City. We lost jobs in finance. We lost jobs in retail. Not even relative to other states, we lost net in many of those categories. I don't know if I have time to continue or not.

[Senator Liz Krueger (Chair, Senate Finance)]: No, you don't.

[Comptroller Mark Levine (New York City)]: I'm sorry. All right. Maybe we'll do a follow-up

[Senator Liz Krueger (Chair, Senate Finance)]: with sentences

[Assemblymember Phil Palmesano (Ranking Member, Assembly Transportation/Cities)]: more aren't that short,

[Speaker 4]: so sorry.

[Assemblymember Steve Otis]: Thanks, too low.

[Comptroller Mark Levine (New York City)]: All right. Thank you.

[Senator Liz Krueger (Chair, Senate Finance)]: Well, you'll get more questions, don't worry.

[Comptroller Mark Levine (New York City)]: All right.

[Senator Liz Krueger (Chair, Senate Finance)]: Sorry. Next up for us is Senator Roxanne Persaud.

[Senator Roxanne J. Persaud]: Good evening to all of you. Great seeing you here in Albany. I just have a quick, a few quick questions. First, thank you, madam speaker

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow (Chair)]: really good.

[Senator Roxanne J. Persaud]: For talking about funding for small churches. I we had a church incident in Brooklyn that was in the news this, past week where the pastor said the the small churches are not feeling assisted. They're not getting the same services as others because we tend to focus only on one sector of religion when we're talking about these incidences that are happening in churches. Someone walked into this church and and as he said, this would have never happened anywhere else. And so I'm pleased that you're you're looking to place funding and added security to all churches. Could you tell me to the comptroller, small businesses in my district are dying. What is the city's plan to help those mom and pop stores? We're not talking about Manhattan stores. We are talking about stores in East New York, Brownsville, Canarsie, and those areas. What are you doing to assist those businesses? Well,

[Comptroller Mark Levine (New York City)]: thank you, senator.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow (Chair)]: And by

[Senator Roxanne J. Persaud]: the way, thank you for being in Brooklyn and being with the students at Meyer eleven.

[Comptroller Mark Levine (New York City)]: Oh, that was such a fun event.

[Senator Erik Bottcher (Chair, Senate New York City Committee)]: Yes, it was.

[Comptroller Mark Levine (New York City)]: Yes, indeed. I'll be back for sure. Look, there's two stories in the economy right now. There's the story of the stock market and people who are doing well off in New York and the economy is great for them. And there's a story of frontline workers and small businesses, and it's a much, much, much tougher environment right right now. In part because of the pressure of our chaotic tariff policies, are definitely impacting small businesses in your district, many of which rely on imported goods Mhmm. Food items and clothes and and other. And the loss of tourism, we've had a significant drop in international visitors, which is also impacting many small businesses which rely on that. And then there's longer term challenges that the city itself has created with obstacles and bureaucracy that seem designed to make it more difficult to open and run a business. And we need to cut through those obstacles, and I commend the mayor for for announcing his plan to do so. But I will certainly be using my office to stand up for this sector to help them gain access to capital, to help cut through regulation, and help build an economy that's not just working on Wall Street, but working also in neighborhood retail areas like yours. And I'll pass it to Oh, the

[Council Speaker Julie Menin (New York City Council)]: yeah. So I would just say that we are doing legislation to lower fines. I'm a former small business owner. When I served as commissioner of consumer affairs, we did a program to lower fines on small businesses, give small businesses thirty days to cure a violation if there was no safety issue. That's now what we're gonna do across every city Asian city agencies. So FDNY, the Department of Buildings, environmental protection. So we are working on that legislation right now to slash fines. And then lastly, we're supporting the business improvement district so that they can help to market and promote small businesses throughout

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow (Chair)]: the Thank you. Solderman Brown?

[Mayor Dorcey Applyrs (Albany)]: Thank you.

[Senator Roxanne J. Persaud]: Thank you.

[Assemblymember Ari Brown]: JAMES Thank you, Chairman. Thank you, everybody, for being here. Madam Speaker, as I was looking in the room, see your former colleague, Kalman Jaeger, here to say hello to you. So hi, Kalman. Thanks for joining us. Controller Levene, just a couple of questions. I'm a Long Islander. So whenever I hear, like, you or the mayor stating that the city gives more than it gets, you know, Los Long Island's hair stands up behind our neck, because we know, in truth, that's Long Island does that. We don't have the services that you do. So I was trying to go over some of the math that you and the mayor had discussed earlier. I think I got this right based on what you had said. You said the city contributes about 68,800,000,000.0 state tax revenue while receiving about 47,600,000,000.0. And I thought to myself, well, there's other things besides that revenue. The MTA alone receives more than $77,200,000,000.0 annually in dedicated taxes and subsidies for the transit system that, you know, the rest of the state, certainly upstate doesn't get, you know, centered really on New York City subways and and whatnot. City further benefits roughly 18,000,000,000 to 20,000,000,000 in state support for Medicaid and education aid. So when you include these tens of billions of dollars in state funded services, what's the actual net dollar calculation behind that claim? And you can provide the full balance sheet showing precisely how you determined that New York City is, you know, giving more than it gets.

[Comptroller Mark Levine (New York City)]: Well, I don't think it's a mystery. We are an economic engine for the state and have a larger GDP than the rest of the state combined. We also are home to 2,000,000 people who live in poverty. And that's a contradiction I spoke about in my opening remarks. And I think that because of the strength of our financial industry, yes, it's right that we support the state. And also because of the needs of so many New Yorkers, it's right that we ask for help from the state. And I don't

[Assemblymember Ari Brown]: mean to interrupt you. Apologize. Please. A lot of it what you said has merit, but what about the math of it? Because with the non inclusion of the tens of billions of dollars that's actually there, the discrepancy is much smaller as compared to the proportion of Long Island what it gives to the state.

[Comptroller Mark Levine (New York City)]: I don't think you, some of them, even have to go to those billion dollar numbers to find many places in the budget where there's one standard for New York City and one in another. I went through half a dozen in my remarks, but the way we allocate public health funding, known as Article six, just to remind you, New York City pays, gets reimbursed at 20% for core public health costs, and the rest of the state gets reimbursed at 36%. That's 90,000,000. And there's many, many examples like that, whether it's just disbursed treatment, either we pay more or get reimbursed less. And all I'm asking for is equal treatment on those critical programs.

[Assemblymember Ari Brown]: Thank you, controller. One other last question, if I may. Your office identified the significant budget risks, structural budget risks. How much of that projected gap is attributable to the migrant shelter costs and associated services? I know what it was last year, but I'm not really sure what it is this year. And have you publicly recommended a cap or restructuring of that spending?

[Comptroller Mark Levine (New York City)]: We incur significant expenses from the arrival of migrants over the last three and a half years. We've also got significant benefits in economic vitality, so many have now entered the workforce. The number of migrants in the shelters has dropped significantly, down to less than half of what it was at its peak. But our budget problems are way beyond that, far beyond the cost we're incurring for migrants.

[Assemblymember Ari Brown]: Just the number, what do you think it'll be this year, just ballpark?

[Comptroller Mark Levine (New York City)]: I don't know exactly, but I assume for 30,000 residents in the shelter system that it might be about 1,000,000,000, but I'll confirm that for you.

[Assemblymember Ari Brown]: I appreciate it. One last question. Annual cost to taxpayers of drug related expenditures, including treatment programs, overtime, emergency response, even sanitation impacts. Any reductions compared to last year, or do you know what the expenditures will be related to those?

[Comptroller Mark Levine (New York City)]: Well, there's a little bit of good news in our battle against addiction in

[Mayor Sean Ryan (Buffalo)]: New

[Comptroller Mark Levine (New York City)]: York. Overdose deaths have been declining, and we think we've made some progress. We have more to to more work to do for sure. Fentanyl has been a scourge for us. I'm not sure exactly if you're asking about a specific intervention, but it is right that we do more to help people break that addiction and help them get services they need to get healthy and provide them the kind of housing and health care that they need to become productive members of society.

[Assemblymember Ari Brown]: Any numbers sticking in your head, what you think those costs would be roughly?

[Comptroller Mark Levine (New York City)]: Specifically for addiction services? I don't know that off

[Mayor Mike Spano (Yonkers)]: the top

[Senator (last name Ryan), Chair, Senate Cities Committee]: of my head.

[Assemblymember Ari Brown]: Appreciate you all coming here tonight.

[Comptroller Mark Levine (New York City)]: Thank you.

[Senator Liz Krueger (Chair, Senate Finance)]: Senator Sanders.

[Senator James Sanders Jr.]: Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Speaker, so the city, like the rest of the nation, is seemingly going through a K shaped economy. And we've heard a lot of talk about the upper part of the K, but I'm really concerned about the bottom part of the K. Can I suggest that the city's EDC can play a much more valuable part there? Somebody needs to look at the mega projects that are happening all over. For example, dollars 22,000,000,000 in JFK and yet no one's doing training for the local communities around there. The EDC and SBA certainly could play a role. EDC, a much greater role. Can I also encourage you to look at the WIB board, the workforce improvement board that is out there that has money, $60,000,000 a year to do training? All of these things need to be used to work on the bottom of the k. Mr. Speaker, your MWBE Mr. Speaker, I'm sorry. Okay. All right.

[Comptroller Mark Levine (New York City)]: It's a long,

[Senator James Sanders Jr.]: long day. Mr. Controller, your MWBE report is really shaking things up quite a bit. Let me do an advertisement that the that the controller is going to be here in Albany at 09:00AM on Saturday where he will speak at a MWBE conference where I will moderate where he will speak on this issue and and others. Would you be kind enough, sir, to give me your thoughts? You can send them to me at another moment. I'll give you give you that on public banks and the stock transfer taxes, stock transfer tax.

[Comptroller Mark Levine (New York City)]: Okay. We got fifty five seconds to cover a lot of territory. I'll just say very quick, we're way behind on MWBE goals, especially if you look at it on a dollar basis. It's easy to count contracts. You have to ask how many dollars are going to minority women of business businesses. And when senator Prasad talks about challenges of small businesses in her district, it should be easier for them to get contracts from the city, and we will be working on that. I'm a longtime supporter of of public banking. I think it's a way to get capital and credit to people who are being turned away from traditional sources, including small business. And as for the stock transfer tax, it it is technically on the books. It is on the books. Obviously, we we don't. We rebate it every year. I think we just need to be careful that in light of this trend that the speaker has referenced of finance jobs moving to other states that we don't accelerate that unintentionally.

[Senator James Sanders Jr.]: Thank you very much, sir. Thank you.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow (Chair)]: Thank you both. Assemblyman Fall.

[Senator (last name Ryan), Chair, Senate Cities Committee]: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Good evening, Madam Speaker, Mr. Comptroller. Congratulations on all your success. I do have a question for each of you both, and I'll start with the speaker. Madam Speaker, you mentioned your push to provide at least $1,000 to all NYC students' education savings accounts. Can you tell us a little more about why that's important and how that program would work?

[Council Speaker Julie Menin (New York City Council)]: Sure. Well, thank you so much, Assembly members. So I launched the project in 2016 when I was Commissioner of Consumer Affairs in partnership with the Gray Foundation. We seeded 10,000 kids in school district thirty in Queens to do a pilot program to prove the concept. Studies show that a lower income child that has a college savings account is three attend college and four times more likely to graduate from college. We invested these funds in the state's five twenty nine. So each and every year, they are growing. We created a program where families, businesses can put money into that student's account. Local businesses can adopt a class. And that is why now the program is universal. Now we got the city to help to fund it. We now have done 340,000 college savings accounts. Every single kindergartner in the New York City public school system gets one. Our pilot program that I mentioned in Queens, we're now in the eighth grade class for that. So the new program that we want to launch would be called NYC Futures Funds. And we would seed each public school kindergartner with $1,000 invested in the state's five twenty nine. So each and every year it will grow. And upon graduation, it can be used for vocational school, which gets to Senator Sanders, what you were talking about in workforce development. It can be used for community college, for any type of college. And when we would give $3,000 to children in need. So we would have criteria to determine that.

[Senator (last name Ryan), Chair, Senate Cities Committee]: Gotcha. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Mr. Comptroller, can you tell us more about some of the under budgeted costs that you have identified?

[Comptroller Mark Levine (New York City)]: Well, there are many, but the biggest is a wonderful program, a housing voucher program known by its acronym CityFepps, which helps families exit the shelter system and secure housing. It's growing by 4% a month. It is essentially doubling every year and a half, and those costs are not represented in the budget. And in fact, next year, there's a $2,000,000,000 shortfall. We estimate about a $3,000,000,000 cost next year and about only about a billion was put into the budget. These one example of many other categories. Overtime, special ed cases known as Carter and Conrad cases, cash payments. Also, by the way, shelter costs where we know they're going to be significant expenses and they don't show up in the budget and then we wind up with a gap.

[Mayor Malik Evans (Rochester)]: Alright. Thank you both.

[Mayor Mike Spano (Yonkers)]: Thank you.

[Senator Liz Krueger (Chair, Senate Finance)]: Sorry about that. Senator Comrie.

[Senator Leroy Comrie]: Good afternoon.

[Council Speaker Julie Menin (New York City Council)]: Afternoon. Good

[Senator Leroy Comrie]: to see all of you. Congratulations. I've seen you since, but congratulations anyway

[Senator Monica R. Martinez (Chair, Senate Local Government)]: Thank you.

[Senator Leroy Comrie]: To be in your new roles. I was on that side of the table some time ago, and it's interesting to see all of you there. Couple of questions. Number one, Fair Fairs program. Less than a third of eligible people have applied for Fair Fairs. It's a great program. What are we gonna do to make sure more people are aware of it this year?

[Council Speaker Julie Menin (New York City Council)]: So thank you, Senator. We are very focused on fair fares. It's one of our top priorities. We and I just met with MTA chairman, Dana Leiber, actually, about this. We believe the problem is that many New Yorkers do not know about the program, do not know that they're eligible for the program, So we need to do more on public awareness. So he and I have been speaking about that. We are deeply committed to actually expanding Fair Fairs, but also, to your point, making sure that those that are eligible are actually aware of it and utilizing the program.

[Senator Leroy Comrie]: And and increasing the eligibility quotient?

[Council Speaker Julie Menin (New York City Council)]: Absolutely.

[Senator Leroy Comrie]: Great. Thank you. And then also, the tenee ruling regarding real estate, what are we gonna do to try to make sure that property taxes are adjusted? And are you committed to the ten year ruling, to a controller and speaker? And what are we gonna try to do to make those proper adjustments in the property tax issue?

[Comptroller Mark Levine (New York City)]: The property tax system is riddled with inequalities as that ruling established. It's well known now that a brownstone in Park Slope pays a much, much lower property tax rate than a homeowner in your district in Southeast Queens, and there's nothing fair about that. We we are going to need a deep dive into our property tax system. I'm very pleased that the mayor has committed to take this on because it's politically challenging, but I'm all in on this work. And I'm particularly concerned about single family homeowners in communities like yours in Southeast Queens who are are not getting a fair deal right now.

[Senator Leroy Comrie]: Great. And just talking about property owners in general, we have a lot of property owners in Southeast Queens and other parts of the city who are landlords, but are older adults, veterans, and civil service workers that are caught in a hellhole because they can't afford to go to court. They can't afford to wait three years for a ruling. What is the city gonna try to do to realistically help those people? And I would hope that there is a program to help those types of property owners that are underwater because they have been caught up in problems since before COVID, but especially since COVID. So I would hope that I know you I don't really wanna answer it right now. No. I would hope that there are programs that you're gonna set up to focus on that. And then just last thing quickly, you know, I would hope that also we work on overturning the illegal board of estimate that was set up in the last election, given the power to the borough presidents and the controller's office. There's an illegal setup of the board of estimate from twenty years ago. I know none of you were around for that. But it was illegal then. It's illegal now. Thank you.

[Assemblymember Latrice Walker]: Thank Senator.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow (Chair)]: You, Senator. Assemblyman Palosama.

[Assemblymember Phil Palmesano (Ranking Member, Assembly Transportation/Cities)]: Thank you for being here. Earlier today, we heard from the mayor. The word I used Can

[Senator Liz Krueger (Chair, Senate Finance)]: we repeat

[Assemblymember Michaelle C. Solages (Chair, Assembly Local Governments)]: three minutes for everybody?

[Assemblymember Phil Palmesano (Ranking Member, Assembly Transportation/Cities)]: Oh, really?

[Mayor Malik Evans (Rochester)]: He's a ranker.

[Assemblymember Michaelle C. Solages (Chair, Assembly Local Governments)]: Ranker? I don't think he's gone.

[Assemblymember Phil Palmesano (Ranking Member, Assembly Transportation/Cities)]: I'm the ranker.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow (Chair)]: He's still elected.

[Senator Liz Krueger (Chair, Senate Finance)]: We're still elected. Well, you're all elected. Excuse me.

[Stephen J. Acquario (Executive Director, NYS Association of Counties)]: I think

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow (Chair)]: you're elected. You don't have

[Assemblymember Phil Palmesano (Ranking Member, Assembly Transportation/Cities)]: to the seat.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow (Chair)]: Excuse me.

[Senator Liz Krueger (Chair, Senate Finance)]: That's right. They are elected. Last

[Assemblymember Ari Brown]: time was

[Comptroller Mark Levine (New York City)]: I elected? I got 1,400,000 votes, man.

[Mayor Mike Spano (Yonkers)]: I'm sorry.

[Assemblymember Phil Palmesano (Ranking Member, Assembly Transportation/Cities)]: You don't have to pause it. It's all

[Assemblymember Ari Brown]: good. So

[Mayor Malik Evans (Rochester)]: thank you.

[Assemblymember Phil Palmesano (Ranking Member, Assembly Transportation/Cities)]: As I said, mayor was here earlier, and the word I used with him is everyone is going to agree with you 100% you have an ambitious agenda. Whether it's the right agenda is the question. You know, obviously, was very clear that, you know, he wants to increase taxes on the wealthier, for the rich, that he wants more money from the state of New York. And his agenda is very expensive because he wants free busing, free childcare. On top of the structural deficit you're facing, I had to make clear to them, New York's got their own physical problems. We're looking at a three year budget deficit of $27,000,000,000 He kept saying, well, we're not going to lose the millionaires. They're going to stay. Madam Speaker, you even said in your comments, I'm worried about the industries, like the financial sector. You said even yourself that we have more of those jobs going to, like Texas. They're opening the states. Is the mayor really so with all that in context, is the mayor's agenda sustainable, feasible, if you don't get the tax increases, if you don't get all this extra money from the state that he's really counting on? Is it really sustainable in that spending level he's talking about?

[Comptroller Mark Levine (New York City)]: Look, we we have a tough fiscal environment right now. I don't think these challenges are insurmountable. I do think that with a combination of efficiencies and savings and a continued strong financial industry coupled with help from Albany. I think we can close this gap. That's what I'm focused on right now. But that doesn't mean we I was just gonna add that that doesn't mean we can't still make bold policy and including on items like free child care that will require a multi year rollout at any rate because of how logistically challenging they are. And I'm excited that with the governor's help, we're going to make a down payment on that this year.

[Assemblymember Phil Palmesano (Ranking Member, Assembly Transportation/Cities)]: I can understand that perspective. When you look at Florida, Texas, and North Carolina, they're in the top 10 for tax competitiveness. New York is fiftieth. And is increasing taxes going to help that competitiveness? But I really want to get back I'm really concerned. Many of my colleagues are concerned. Mean, New York is the financial capital of the world. But we see, you know, all these lower tax states seeking stock trading financial platforms, and those industries are leaving because they want to go to a more competitive state. Is the mayor have a plan? We didn't really get into that. Or is he doing enough? Is the fiscal plan that's being advised going to be enough to compete to keep those industries here when they can go to other states and not be burdened by the heavier tax burden?

[Comptroller Mark Levine (New York City)]: Look, I think it's too soon to know. We're still awaiting an appointment to EDC, but I can say that it's imperative that we find a way to get job creation going again in New York. And the current flat lining of job creation is in part due to competition from other parts of the country. Also, I think due to early signs of AI, particularly in white collar industries and particularly for recent college graduates. Also, an impact of the the tariffs, which are a drag on our economy, and we need to attack all of those for sure. But this New York City has to be a place where businesses want to hire and expand and grow. And I'm certainly using my voice in my office to ensure that we are that kind of city.

[Speaker 4]: And I

[Assemblymember Phil Palmesano (Ranking Member, Assembly Transportation/Cities)]: and I know. I I appreciate that. Just quickly, do you know what percentage of the personal income tax revenue comes from the top 1% in New York City?

[Comptroller Mark Levine (New York City)]: J. Well, let's see. It's about 40%

[Assemblymember Phil Palmesano (Ranking Member, Assembly Transportation/Cities)]: of PID. And then with them being the most mobile, and then with also the financial sector, we see the out migration. We know New York's one of the and we've seen what we've seen in studies I've seen, you have more New Yorkers moving out with higher incomes. And then some move back in with lower incomes. And so it's not as much of a net loss, but at the end of the day, it's a net loss of taxable income. I mean, to the tune of studies I've seen, dollars 23,000,000,000, dollars 34,000,000,000. That is not sustainable for those programs. And when ultimately, you don't have that taxable income, doesn't ultimately let the tax increase shift down to the middle and lower income people to pay for these expensive services that are being offered by the mayor or the state at this level? Isn't a likely outcome?

[Comptroller Mark Levine (New York City)]: Well, it's true that people are mobile now in a way they weren't in the past.

[Assemblymember Phil Palmesano (Ranking Member, Assembly Transportation/Cities)]: Especially the wealthy.

[Comptroller Mark Levine (New York City)]: Yes. And some have moved to Florida, as my friends from Florida constantly remind me. But we've actually had some move to New York, and we've had some people become millionaires while working in New York. And the total number of wealthy people has actually increased in the city that you referenced a study showing a lost revenue that was based on the fact that other parts of the country have had a faster rate of growth, growth of millionaires. And and and we care about that too. But I think it's a mischaracterization to say that we're net losing high wealth individuals in New York City right now. Thank you.

[Assemblymember Phil Palmesano (Ranking Member, Assembly Transportation/Cities)]: Thank Thank you.

[Senator Liz Krueger (Chair, Senate Finance)]: Senator Scarcella Sketon.

[Senator Jessica Scarcella-Spanton]: Thank you and congratulations to everybody. My first question is for Speaker Menon. Veterans and affordability, I think these are issues that everybody can get behind. We recently passed a bill. We're still kind of working out a few things to provide a 100% property tax deduction for 100% service disabled veterans. I believe it would need to be an opt in, so we would need to get the city's support. So I would love to just clarify that we would have the support, but also maintaining the sliding scale property tax exemptions that already do exist for our veterans, too.

[Council Speaker Julie Menin (New York City Council)]: Thank you so much for the question. We really look forward to working with you. There was a package of bills in the council back in December to aid veterans that did not move forward. To be clear, we will move them forward. We want to protect our veterans. They gave their life for this country. And the least we can do is give them the support that they need. So you can count on us for support. And I would note we have a new chair of our Veterans Committee from Staten Island, Council Member Frank Marano, who I know is very passionate about thinking about creative ways that we can be supporting our veteran communities.

[Senator Jessica Scarcella-Spanton]: Excellent. Thank you so much. And my other question is similar to my colleague, Senator Comrie. Do you see a path forward? This could either be for a speaker or for Comptroller Levene. Do you see a path forward to implement the property tax reforms that were suggested? They do suggest that they would lower Staten Islanders property taxes by quite a lot, and we do have a large share of that burden right now. Is that something that you see as a practical step forward? And how can we help to get that done? Because we would love to, most of us, all of us up here. Yes?

[Comptroller Mark Levine (New York City)]: Look, it's it this is a it's it's a politically complicated, financially complicated undertaking. It has to be done. I think there's more political will now than there has been in at least five years or so towards the waning days of of the de Blasio administration. There was a push. But I'm committed to working on this. I know the speakers. I'm sure she'll talk in a moment and and the mayor as well. That that gives us a pretty good starting point, and we would love to partner with you and Staten Islanders and members of the state legislature to get this right. So much of the policy change does run through state law. So clearly, we're gonna need a city state partnership here.

[Senator Jessica Scarcella-Spanton]: Absolutely. And I have one more question pertaining to affordability and veterans housing. I know we talk a lot about affordable housing. I just wanna make sure that when we are talking about affordable housing, we also are always including maybe a separate bucket for the veterans. We have a wonderful, and I would love to have you guys come see it, affordable housing in Coney Island, SURF Vets. It's great. It has services on the bottom. There's a cyclone bagels where they can work, and then they can live affordably in Coney Island with oceanview views. So I'm inviting you guys, and I would love to talk more about that. Not in the next four seconds.

[Council Speaker Julie Menin (New York City Council)]: Thank you. I'd love to come see that. Thank you so much.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow (Chair)]: Thank you very much. Assemblymember Diaz.

[Assemblymember (unidentified, referred to as Mendez/Méndez)]: I second my senator from Staten Island on the veterans aspect. We're working together on a couple packages here to help our veterans, to end veteran poverty specifically. Madam Speaker, one thing that you've been on the forefront on is the census. We have been undercounted across the city and the state. We just had the other mayors from the big five cities. And briefly, just like to talk about what you view that we need to do from the state and city partnership when it comes to the census.

[Council Speaker Julie Menin (New York City Council)]: Well, thank you so much, Assembly Member, and thank you for your leadership on the census. You you and I have had so many different conversations and partnerships on it. I fully support the state bill to create an office of the census at the state level. As you know, I had the bill in the city that has now created a permanent office of the census. So that will be happening moving forward. What happened in 2020 when I served as the city's census director is we had very little time to be able to count every single New Yorker. And we were under not only a time crunch, but a pressure crunch for two reasons. One, COVID happened at the same time that the census occurred. Literally, the day the census went live was the day that COVID truly hit New York City. And also, the census had a question that hadn't been asked for seventy years are you a US citizen? I served in a senior role at the law department. We, along with our New York attorney general, sued the Trump administration at the Supreme Court. We won that case, got the question off the census. But my concern is that House Republicans are now trying to put the question back on. And it is not outside of the realm that they could succeed. If they succeed, this will have disastrous consequences for cities like New York that have very significant immigrant communities. We cannot allow that to happen. And so that is why we need to plan. We need to fund local community groups on the ground, as we did in 2020, that are their trusted voice in their neighborhood. Due to our efforts, I really attribute a lot of our success to those efforts partnering with community groups. We also did 36 media campaigns in 27 different languages, 5,000,000 text messages, 7,000,000 phone calls. We tried to reach New Yorkers where they are. We have to start the work now on the 2030 census. We are estimated to lose between two and three seats in Congress in the 2030 census. And I would just point out that New York used to have 45 members of congress in 1950. Each decade, New York state has lost a minimum of two seats, sometimes three seats, sometimes four seats, in 1985 seats, never less than two seats. And 2020 was the first time we didn't lose two seats, and we came within 89 people of losing no seats. Honestly, if the state and the governor's office at the time had put in the $10,000,000 that the state had allocated, we would have kept that congressional seat.

[Assemblymember (unidentified, referred to as Mendez/Méndez)]: Think I'd also like to recognize chairwoman Solages' bill as for the census, we're supporting it fully. So thank you for your support of that. I had a second question,

[Chris Koetzle (Executive Director, Association of Towns of the State of New York)]: but there's five seconds left. So

[Assemblymember (unidentified, referred to as Mendez/Méndez)]: thank you.

[Senator Liz Krueger (Chair, Senate Finance)]: Senator Gonzalez.

[Senator Kristen Gonzalez]: Thank you so much. Good evening. I was also going to ask about the census. I actually worked on that when I was on Queen's Community Board four, but looks like you have an incredible plan for it. So I'm going to move on in questioning, but certainly want to voice my support for the need for the state and the city to invest in census efforts. I wanted to ask you about a part of your testimony in AI and healthcare. Yesterday, we had a panel of labor unions representing health care workers and talking about the need for cleared guardrails and how this technology is used, and certainly labor protections. In this year's budget, we have 1,500,000 earmarked for AI and health care. And so I am curious if you've been consulted on this funding, or what recommendations you've had for the state on this.

[Council Speaker Julie Menin (New York City Council)]: Thank you so much, Senator, for that question, and the state has done, you know, been a leader in AI regulation. Obviously, what we want to do with AI is we are not looking to stifle creativity, but we are looking to put on responsible guardrails so that AI is not being utilized in ways that do not benefit the city and state. So we're trying to strike that balance. So I really appreciate the question. In the healthcare industry, AI has been utilized effectively for diagnosis, to be able to increase, for example, cancer screenings, finding cancers, things like that. We don't want to stifle that. But what we do want to do is make sure that our frontline health care workers, our nurses and other health care workers, that we are not in any way supplanting their very important role in the health system. So that is why I really appreciate the work that you're doing on this, because we want to put in responsible guardrails around the use of AI, and also making sure that we're doing privacy, data protection, things of that nature as well.

[Senator Kristen Gonzalez]: Thank you. And looking forward to working with you on this. I also want to pivot, of course, to acknowledge that this morning we heard a lot from the mayor's office about the need to raise revenue in order to fund critical services at a time where we're getting cuts in health care and food assistance. I wanted to ask, in regards to a suite of bills that would give the city permission to raise personal income taxes and corporate taxes, if that's a power that you think the city should have for itself.

[Council Speaker Julie Menin (New York City Council)]: Thank you. No, so I heard the testimony. And certainly, our understanding is a home rule would be required at that time. We have not had that conversation in the council, so I would need to go back to the council to talk to colleagues about where they are on that. But it would require a home rule.

[Senator Kristen Gonzalez]: Absolutely. And looking forward, of course, to working across levels of government to support the city in those decisions. Thank you. But thank you so much.

[Assemblymember Michaelle C. Solages (Chair, Assembly Local Governments)]: Thank you.

[Senator Monica R. Martinez (Chair, Senate Local Government)]: Thank you.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow (Chair)]: Thank you. Assemblywoman Solages.

[Assemblymember Michaelle C. Solages (Chair, Assembly Local Governments)]: Welcome to the panel. As this is first budget hearing, this is yours. So we're in this together. So I'm Assembly Member Solages. I'm the new chair of the local government's committee. I know Philly Jones is no longer here, so update your records for that. And I definitely want to continue speaking with you because I want to build that relationship and making sure that local governments have a voice here in Albany. I first want to kick it off with the controller. In your testimony, you mentioned the right to counsel, And I thank you for that, because we know that there's more than 175,000 eviction cases right now statewide. There are a lot of New Yorkers being displaced, which means that these costs fall on local governments, because that's what we do. We take care of our citizenry. And so I know that for us, I have a bill that's requesting monies to establish the Office of Civil Representation so we can begin hiring lawyers and providing a right to counsel for folks in the state. And so I know that the city has a robust program. And so first, can you talk about the program and why in the state we need to invest in this?

[Comptroller Mark Levine (New York City)]: Thank you, Madam Chair. We definitely up to date our records. I'm excited to be working with you on this. I'm just incredibly proud that New York City was the first place in America to establish a right to counsel for tenants facing eviction in housing court, a bill I was pleased to author along with my colleague at the time in the council, Vanessa Gibson, now Borough President. It has had a remarkable impact. We have determined that in eighty four percent of the cases where a tenant is represented, they can remain in their homes. So relative to almost any other outcome, it's not just a wonderful win from a human perspective, but also from a financial and fiscal perspective because you're avoiding a family who might otherwise land in a homeless shelter where the costs are exorbitant. And you're allowed to stay in the family at a far lower expense. We do have some work to shore up the program in New York City because of the pace of increase in evictions and limits on the funding and some weaknesses in the way we contract. Not every person who should have a right to counsel is having that fulfilled in New York. But I'm just thrilled that we're looking at taking this statewide and that you're looking at the example of New York. And we also began with establishment of a dedicated office. We call it the Office of Civil Justice in New York, which I presume is the model that you're looking at. Someone who can oversee contracting and collect data, and this has been a very important pillar for us. So I strongly support the effort to take it statewide. I'll just finally very quickly say, this is about fairness and justice. And there is no fairness in a legal proceeding if one side is represented and the other is not. And and in 99% of cases, landlords have attorneys. And prior to our work on right to counsel, single digit percent of tenants did. And it resulted in an epidemic of evictions that had real damage to families in New York. We've done better in the city, and I would love to see you do better in the state now as well.

[Assemblymember Michaelle C. Solages (Chair, Assembly Local Governments)]: Yeah. And can you elaborate more on some of the challenges? Because we want to make sure that we navigate them so that we don't duplicate the mistakes on a statewide level.

[Comptroller Mark Levine (New York City)]: Sure. The contracting has been inadequate. It's had too great of a caseload for the attorneys doing this work, and reimbursement rates have been inadequate. And this is all done on a monthly cycle and often midway through the month, the legal service providers can no longer take additional cases. And I I I encourage you to look at this experience and fully fund the program. It's probably funded at no more than half the level it needs right now in New York City, but also to have contracts that have acceptable caseloads and the right kinds of billing so that the nonprofits doing this work can actually meet the need.

[Assemblymember Michaelle C. Solages (Chair, Assembly Local Governments)]: Thank you. Because we've seen marshal evictions in 2005 increase, and counties like The Bronx, Schenectady, Niagara are just experiencing exorbitant numbers. So it's something that we definitely want to have conversations around, especially during this time of the cold and other times where there's extreme incidences. We want to make sure that we stop the displacement. I want you to finish your thoughts on job creation because, of course, economic development is very important. So I want to give you some time to do so.

[Comptroller Mark Levine (New York City)]: Yes. I think

[Assemblymember John T. McDonald III]: And that's

[Assemblymember Michaelle C. Solages (Chair, Assembly Local Governments)]: for the whole panel, if they want to continue.

[Comptroller Mark Levine (New York City)]: Sure. Look, just say very quickly that the story is quite dramatic when you look sector by sector. And I think it potentially tells an AI story as well. The sectors that are growing in New York City and nationally, including in today's job report that we got nationally, We'll get an update for the city next month. It is healthcare where we're seeing growth, which is for now largely insulated from AI. It's second secondarily, hospitality, which again, because these are in person exchanges, generally it has not been so impacted by AI. But if you look at fields like technology, business services, we're seeing job loss nationally, dramatically. And actually the picture nationally mirrors New York, where if you take out that narrow sector of health care and human services across The United States economy, we lost jobs in 2025. Some people are calling this a jobs recession even though, by some measures, even though the economy is growing. This is the contradiction that I referred to. And I think New York City is only beginning to deal with the impact of this. I'm worried about the accelerating pace of AI and its impact on jobs in New York. If you talk to any young person, someone in their twenties, and ask them about breaking into the workforce, it's tough right now even for young people who've done the right thing and gone to colleges and and gotten good degrees. They're having a very, very hard time breaking in. So I think we as a city need to first try and make sure that we get a bigger share of the jobs that we do have in the country by making this a place where people want to hire and grow, by equipping our young people with the skills that they need to compete in a job market where AI is going to be changing many, many, many jobs. And also we need to think about what we do for what could be an increasing number of people who are just left out of the job market, and what we can do to care for them and provide for them if, as I fear, the job losses really do accelerate.

[Council Speaker Julie Menin (New York City Council)]: I would just add a couple of things. You've got cities like Miami and Austin, Texas that are creating biotech corridors, tech hubs. This is what we are not doing in New York City. And we haven't done it for years. We really need to go back to the drawing board and come up with a core economic development strategy that attracts new businesses to our city. At the same time, we need to build more affordable housing. Because for businesses to attract talent, you need to have a city that's affordable for people to live here. So the affordable housing piece is definitely a component of it as well. And then, you know, in job creation, there's so many new industries that in New York City we should be really trying to highlight. When I was media and entertainment commissioner, we created the nation's first AR and VR hub in Brooklyn to really highlight the advances in all these different companies that are doing AR and VR. We need to support our small businesses so they're able to grow their business. One thing we're doing in the council, we're approving year round outdoor dining. Why are we doing that? Because again, we want to support these hospitality businesses, many of which are closing because of high rents, lack of customers. So these steps that we're taking to try to support them, the fine reduction legislation I mentioned for small businesses, that also can lead to job growth. Because if we can make it easier for small businesses and for all businesses to operate in our city, that is honestly what we need to do. And the last thing I would say and I feel very strongly about this. I previously served as commissioner of the Department of Consumer and Worker Protection. We can have the strongest consumer and worker protections of any city across the country. And at the same time, we can attract and keep businesses here. These two ideas are not mutually exclusive. And so we are going to need to put a lot of energy into making sure we are bringing new businesses here.

[Assemblymember Michaelle C. Solages (Chair, Assembly Local Governments)]: Thank you for that. And with my last minute, I want to talk about what's happening with the Haitian community. As you know, TPS for Haitian nationals in flux. We know that there's thousands of Haitian nationals here contributing taxes, and they're living in fear. And I know that as a state, we need to make sure that we're doing all that's possible to protect our state and our sovereignty. So when it comes to items that the city is doing, how are we protecting our Haitian community and other immigrants whose TPS status is in flux?

[Council Speaker Julie Menin (New York City Council)]: So we are investing in legal services, whether it's NILAG or other groups, Catholic charities that we're working with. For example, our data analyst who was taken by ICE, we immediately contact NILAG and we filed habeas right away. We need to invest more in these groups because if habeas is not filed, that is when there is a real significant risk of deportation. So it's supporting those groups. It's supporting a twenty four hour hotline because oftentimes, as existed with our employee, you are given one call. If that call is not to someone who can connect you with a legal team that can file habeas, there are really serious consequences to that.

[Senator Cordell Cleare]: Thank you. Thank

[Senator Liz Krueger (Chair, Senate Finance)]: you. I guess I'm going to take my time. So I appreciate both of you being here and the wealth of detail in your testimony. So I don't know how much I want to actually ask you other than to say, I think we're very interested in working with you. And I just want to highlight a couple of those things. One is something that actually Julie and I have been working on together, trying to control costs in the hospitals that have so overinflated patient costs that you have literally insurance companies that I'm not saying they're right or wrong. I'm just saying the costs are so high that we can't even find insurance companies who want to insure people who are in our government programs and are covered through government programs. And yet yesterday we had the health hearing where we then saw this, quite a scene between some unions who work in hospitals versus unions who are paying for hundreds of thousands of people's health insurance and the dilemma there. But I really believe we have to get our arms around that. And that needs to be city and state together. And it needs to be counsel helping. And it needs to be the controller's office because your predecessor left office with the last audit as he packed up and left, being that the program that the city uses to cover health insurance for, I believe, 300,000 existing city workers and I think 250,000 retired city workers is actually already bankrupt. And I think one of you testified how much the costs have been going up for that program over the last years, and the numbers are terrifying, and they're really terrifying if you realize apparently it's a bankrupt funding stream. So we have to figure that out, right? And of course the federal government keeps cutting everything, so they're not helping us at all. So I look forward to working with you with that. I'm very glad to see both of you talking about tax policy and the questions of should we be doing property tax reform? And the answer is yes, and it will be painful. It will be really painful. But the courts are going to tell us we have to do it anyway. So I think we ought to do the best we can do, even if it's going to be a little bit like drawing blood with every piece of the changes that we all have to make together. And I think the city of New York should take the lead and then advise the state of New York what laws we need to change. Because you need us to change your property tax policies. But with all due respect, you don't want us telling you what to do. You want to come up with it jointly between the counsel, the controller, and the mayor, and then come to us and say, yep. There'll be lots of people who hate this, but it's the best we can do. But I really urge you to take on that challenge because it's such one of those band aids you have to rip off and it's gonna hurt, but you gotta do it or you're gonna be in worse trouble. I was also really glad to see you talking about local control of tax expenditures because I am glad that the governor and her executive budget, and I know that the legislature is going to support some of these removing, you know, sort of connections between a federal tax law and the state so that we're not losing more state taxes based on Trump policies. But yes, there's more that could be done if the city is allowed to actually make these decisions for itself. And there are a lot of tax expenditures that frankly each of your agencies in the past, you're not an agency or a city council, you're a controller. You've done analysis showing that they're not justifiable tax expenditures. They're not getting you the bang for the buck that you need and you're giving up a huge amount of tax revenue. So I think this is absolutely the right year for you to push with us to give you that kind of power because we need to do this. So I'm very glad to see that you made a number of recommendations here. And I'm hoping that we can help accomplish that within the budget process for you because I think you're on the right road and you know why you need this money. And people forget. If you're not giving away everything in tax expenditures, you get the money and you're not raising somebody's taxes. You're just saying we're no longer letting some group get away without having to pay their taxes. Because whenever you let some group not pay their taxes, somebody else is paying it. So I've always been a big believer in that. I was also interested to see that you picked up on both the Governor's proposal for expansion of screedery, which I think has been one of the great and underutilized programs to help elderly and disabled people stay in their own homes. And I hope we accomplish that also. The Governor's proposal sort of takes the council out of the loop on this one. And I could see why you go, wait a second here. But in fact, in previous attempts with the previous mayors, people haven't wanted to go as far as I think the council members and the legislature wanted to go. So if everybody's open to going the distance we need to go now, I say let's just take the win, even if we might be saying, how come we don't get to decide that? But that's obviously up to you, but I just wanted to highlight that I think it's a crucial program and really the right time to be doing that. And finally, I also appreciated the catch on the J51 program that the governor's proposed extending for I think an additional ten years, but also dramatically increasing. And so I looked at that and I said, woah, that's going to cost the city a lot of money. And it's property tax money. Now I actually think it might be a really reasonable thing to do, but I hope that you both will actually come to us with more analysis of the pluses and minuses of that because as I'm always pointing out, the only taxes you really control yourselves are the property taxes. So this is an example where the governor and her proposed budget is talking about potentially, I don't even know the exact numbers. I'm hoping one of you will help me with it. Potentially tripling the costs of lost property tax. But if it's lost property tax and it's used really effectively to help us ensure that affordable rent, rental housing, and co op condos on lower cost than middle class families actually can continue to make the needed improvements and changes they need to keep as stable housing, maybe that's the right answer. I'm just suggesting don't not notice that we're doing this. And you didn't because it's in your testimony, but go even further. Tell us whether you think this is a good idea or not. And I guess then just finally, and it's not even for you as much as some of my colleagues here, who always seem to think no matter what you show them in facts, that New York City is eating up all everybody else's money. Of course we're not. So just for the record, the subsidies of MTA are far greater for the Long Island Railroad than anything in the City Of New York. We are subsidizing Long Island and Metro North Rail, not the opposite. And frankly, those communities couldn't be who they are without mass transit and the subsidies they're providing. So don't buy into the argument that somehow we're eating up their money. And don't buy into the argument that our principles of believing we should be protecting immigrants in our city, whatever their legal status, is also hurting everyone else. Because, and Mark and I think can help look it up, they pay a whole lot of taxes. And they're not eligible for any of the benefits. But they're paying a lot of taxes. And then guess what? If you look at the history of New York, their children and grandchildren not only become legal and pay a lot of taxes, they're actually creating the next generations of entrepreneurs and talent. And a whole lot of us actually here in government. So again, everybody please check your facts when you come. And when you get challenged about things that you think, wait, I know that, that's not right. Because not everything that gets said here is correct. So thank you very much for being with us tonight.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow (Chair)]: Thank you, Senator. Assemblywoman Jackson.

[Assemblymember Chantel Jackson]: I needed a nap. Thank you, chair. Good evening, everyone, and welcome and congratulations on your new position. Thank you. Madam Speaker, welcome to Albany. My son is in pre k, and I'm looking forward to kindergarten where he can participate in this Save for College program. It starts at kindergarten. I'm very happy to hear about the five point plan to combat anti Semitism, specifically allocating the $1,250,000 to the Museum of Jewish Heritage. You saw a problem, and you're responding swiftly to address this. So thank you for that. As chair of the New York State Black Legislative Task Force and during Black History Month, I'm just wondering what funding will be allocated to address the wealth disparity we're seeing between black New Yorkers and our white counterparts. And then also, just secondly, we know 8,400,000 New Yorkers, 21% are black. Black homeownership is on a twenty year decline due to many reasons, like deed theft and a number of other systemic issues. And so I'm just wondering if if what the plan is around deed theft and the dis the wealth disparity. And then I'll just throw in there for comp controller we've had in previous administration. We did an audit and found twenty two percent of black New Yorkers ages 16 to 23 were unemployed. Since knowing this information, what funding has been allocated to combat that issue?

[Council Speaker Julie Menin (New York City Council)]: Okay. Thank you so much, assembly member, and thank you for your kind comments. In terms of issues affecting black communities throughout the city, we are very focused, first of all, on black home ownership. We are going to do a whole suite of bills on this topic. So I have been speaking with my colleagues, specifically with our land use chair, council member Kevin Riley, about this topic. And we're currently working on legislative ideas that will be and we're happy to come back to you right before we introduce them. On deed theft, we had a very hard hitting hearing on deed theft recently. We have to do far more on deed theft. And we have many colleagues that are focused on this issue. I mean, it's unacceptable what is happening. Death theft is a plague that is affecting black communities across our city. And we really need to crack down on it by strengthening legal resources, making it more difficult for this crime to happen. So we are committed to it, and a number of colleagues have introduced bills to attack that issue. And the other thing is it's not just legislative solutions. We also need to do public awareness so that seniors are more aware of deed theft. So we're making sure that they are taking the precautions needed so that the deed theft can be prevented in the first place.

[Assemblymember Chantel Jackson]: Thank you. Control, I know it's only nineteen seconds. But do you have anything? And if anything,

[Mayor Mike Spano (Yonkers)]: I'll probably Yes.

[Comptroller Mark Levine (New York City)]: And I know I only have a few seconds. I wish my office could take credit for the audit you referred. It's actually state comptroller Tom DiNapoli, but you are correct in the numbers that you cited. And I've talked a lot here about the loss of jobs in New York. It is hitting black New Yorkers very hard, specifically black women in part because of the loss of federal jobs, also because of the assault on DEI. If I have more time, maybe I can talk about how we can respond to that.

[Mayor Sharon Owens (Syracuse)]: Thank you.

[Senator Liz Krueger (Chair, Senate Finance)]: I'm always the bad guy, Mark. Sorry.

[Mayor Mike Spano (Yonkers)]: What's that?

[Senator Liz Krueger (Chair, Senate Finance)]: I said I'm always the bad guy.

[Mayor Mike Spano (Yonkers)]: It's all you're

[Comptroller Mark Levine (New York City)]: doing your job, senator.

[Senator Liz Krueger (Chair, Senate Finance)]: And next up is Cordell Cleary.

[Senator Cordell Cleare]: Thank you. Welcome panel. I got to say this very quickly. So one of the things I wanted to ask about was historically under 1% of the city's budget has been dedicated to aging services, and I wanted to know if y'all will advocate and and make this allocation meet the raise, the increasing number of seniors and senior needs that we have.

[Council Speaker Julie Menin (New York City Council)]: Thank you so much, Senator. Yes, we have to do more to help our aging population. We have a new chair of our aging committee, council member Susan Zhuang. She has some tremendous ideas to make sure that we are doing more to support seniors. Seniors particularly suffer from loneliness. We know that. They suffer from isolation. One of the things that we're looking at

[Senator Cordell Cleare]: And I'm gonna cut you off because I wanna ask a few more questions. Thank you. I'm glad you're doing that. Know, control, I've always asked this question and I always will, but I'd like to know what housing or economic policies are in place, to reverse the trend of gentrification, and black out migration in, which which has seen over 200,000 blacks leave New York, and that number is rapidly increasing. And, also, I'll just add on to that. You could answer them if you can. I just wanna know you said $720,000,000 went unspent and money. I'd like to know if you know why. Later on, you could tell me if you know why so we could help with that. And I too am very concerned about the disparate and inequitable property tax system, especially as it affects a lot of brownstone owners and owners in my community who look at this as their form of generational wealth that they can pass down and give to others. And many of them are older New Yorkers, and they are struggling. And finally, you may over the summer, you know, our district had a very devastating plague of legionnaires.

[Council Speaker Julie Menin (New York City Council)]: Yes.

[Senator Cordell Cleare]: I have a a really robust package of bills that I wanna see put in place because people died, and we're still facing we had currently have one at thirty three thirty three Broadway. We have a case of legionnaires right now, several cases. And I just don't know why this continuously is repeated, and it seems like it's repeated in black and brown communities at this level. I'd like to know what the city council can do to

[Senator Liz Krueger (Chair, Senate Finance)]: help us. Okay.

[Comptroller Mark Levine (New York City)]: Okay. Well, very very quick on the housing front, senator. I so admire how you're fighting for this in Harlem and statewide and fighting for homeownership as well as rental options. Absolutely. And what you're doing right now with Lincoln Correctional is is about not just homeownership, but homeownership that is accessible to people in the neighborhood. Yes. And this is the problem with affordability. It's been defined so broadly that we're leaving out the people who are struggling. And I don't really have time left, but we are investing city pension funds in financing more affordable housing. And it will include the

[Mayor Malik Evans (Rochester)]: Thank kind of deeply affordable you, Mr. Kassay.

[Senator Liz Krueger (Chair, Senate Finance)]: Thank you. Thank you.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow (Chair)]: Assemblywoman Walker.

[Assemblymember Latrice Walker]: And look at that. It's a green light. Thank you so much for your testimony and for being here today. I know that the city council has made huge investments in JISH funding, justice involved, supportive housing. The New York State budget, of course, in previous years And in this year, we'll also include millions of dollars in capital funds to support supportive housing initiatives just like JISH, and I will hope that your commitment will continue. Mister Controller, has your office evaluated whether or not the state criminal justice reforms are delivering cost savings to the city?

[Comptroller Mark Levine (New York City)]: Well, we have pointed out, as I referenced in my opening statement, that Raise the Age has left us without the funding that other parts of the state are accessing, that we are investing in helping to implement the program without state compensation. But if you're asking about the economic impact of criminal justice reforms, do you mean getting people back into the workforce? Is that what you're referring to?

[Assemblymember Latrice Walker]: So there were a number of other items that we did, including discovery reform changes as well as the the infamous, of course, bail reform changes and the dynamics of the effect that that has had on incarceration and other dynamics. And so I was just wondering whether

[Comptroller Mark Levine (New York City)]: Incarceration is is extravagantly expensive. We're spending over half 1,000,000 a year per detainee at Rikers. It is, from an economic perspective, by far the most expensive solution, much much more cost effective to pay for supportive housing and youth development programs and employment programs that help keep people employed and avoid the worst options. So there's no doubt about it that criminal justice reform can yield and does yield economic benefits. I can't say our office has done an analysis of that yet, but with your suggestion, we'll look into it for sure.

[Assemblymember Latrice Walker]: Well, I would love for you to, and if you could also include whether an evaluation on the long term fiscal impacts perhaps of JISH investments and compare sort of maybe public costs for incarceration and shelter versus supportive housing as it relates to JISH funding and reentry services.

[Comptroller Mark Levine (New York City)]: Okay, we will definitely.

[Assemblymember Latrice Walker]: Thank you.

[Council Speaker Julie Menin (New York City Council)]: And I just want to note, if I could, that the councils invested $6,800,000 over three years in and so we are very committed to that. Thank

[Assemblymember Latrice Walker]: Thank you for the so much for that. Awesome. And as we know, GISH resources are designed to help reduce the cycle of incarceration as well as homelessness. And it's key to achieving broader decarceration goals. And so I appreciate all your work on this effort.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow (Chair)]: Thank you, Assemblywoman. Assemblywoman Simon.

[Assemblymember Jo Anne Simon]: Thank you. Thank you, and welcome both of Speaker Menon and Control of Levene. I have a bunch of questions for both of you. But a couple of issues, you both mentioned foundation aid and the need to increase that calculation. Both of you referred to particular certain populations. Senator Liu and I have two bills to increase foundation aid. But one of the things we included is children in foster care. And I'm curious why, whether you've thought of that, if you have data on that. Because a real issue for our kids in foster care whose needs are greater. I also wanted to suggest on the deed theft department that you speak to the surrogates because they see a lot of this in a lot of different ways through their cases. And so a lot of us are working on this issue. A lot of us have had it in our neighborhoods. And it's just a suggestion because the big issue is statute of limitations and the very tangled web with all of the transactions that are done with the banks, etcetera, etcetera. The other thing that I wanted to mention is, a, this issue about housing and working with SECRA. I'm not sure the governor's proposal goes far enough, but one of the challenges in New York City is that most housing is as of right. And so SECRA doesn't even come into the picture. But also, the biggest drawback it seems to me, and I just talked to a big developer a couple hours ago about this, is HPD and getting and the financing and the lack of access to capital for not for profit housing developers. So I would love to have further conversations with you guys about how to do that because HPD is a big part of the issue in terms of how long it takes to get things done and their updating of term sheets and and the the real world that I think is an issue. And then the last thing is I know there's been a big class action for children's health care and I want to make sure that the children in New York City are properly addressed in the stakeholder process that the state will be going through.

[Comptroller Mark Levine (New York City)]: Mhmm. Look, very quick on the financing front, assembly member, you're right. As hard as it is to find locations to build housing, that's actually the second biggest challenge. The biggest challenge is to financing. We run out. Right. With federal sources, we hit the limit. And it can be five years, and we've seen cases of ten years Yes. For financing. But this is the plan I referenced to senator Claire that we're gonna put New York City pension money into financing some of these problems to close those gaps in a way that will get good returns for retirees, but that will enable the financing of these units, new construction, preservation, mixed income housing, up and down the income ladder. I think if we do that, we think we could get 70,000 new units moving across the city.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow (Chair)]: Thank you very, very much. And Speaker Menon, want to thank you for your testimony today. Again, congratulations on your new position. And thank you, your staff that sat by ably, but you answered all the questions, all the questions yourself. And control the beam. I want to thank you.

[Comptroller Mark Levine (New York City)]: Thank you.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow (Chair)]: And congratulations on your new position, and your staff was great to help you out with

[Comptroller Mark Levine (New York City)]: They saved me once or twice.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow (Chair)]: You all did a good job. And you can both now go back to governing New York City. Thank so much. Thank you for having And we're going to move into the next section. Please be advised now the remaining individuals that are testifying will each have three minutes of testimony. And questions will be limited to three minutes from the legislators, regardless of status. So rankers, chair people, members, We all here three minutes each. So now I'm going to call up New York Conference of Mayors, Barbara Epps, New York State Association of Counters, Steve Aquario, Association of Towns of the State of New York, Chris Kotzelow. In his court. Okay. Do you want to start ladies first? We start from my left, your right, or you have to go the other way.

[Mayor Mike Spano (Yonkers)]: Are we on? No.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow (Chair)]: Okay.

[Speaker 4]: Now we're on.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow (Chair)]: Now you're on.

[Assemblymember Patrick Burke (Chair, Assembly Cities)]: All

[Speaker 4]: right. I'm going to dispense with all the formalities since I only have three minutes. This can be very difficult. But I just want to say I appreciate you all being here, to the chairs, to our local government chairs, our city's chair, my former mayor friends. Thank you all for your patience and your stamina. This is really tough because obviously I had more than three minutes of things to talk about. But let me just start by focusing on AIM because I know we talked a lot about AIM today. And you don't need me to go round and round on what you've already heard, especially from the big city mayors. I just want to caution people that when we're talking about AIM and the formula and opening up the formula because all of the inequity that exists, I 100% agree that there is inequity there. But I also think you would be very hard pressed to find a formula because this started back with revenue sharing in the 1970s. And it was basically based on population and full valuation. Then there was a number of other local government programs that all got consolidated back in the '80s. And then it happened again in the '90s. And all of the programs that got consolidated into the AIM program provided money to different entities. So not every city got the emergency financial aid for cities. And so that's why the inequities exist. But you can't point to a formula because each of them had their own formulas for very different reasons. So I'm very concerned about I 100% agree that we need to look at it. We can certainly come up with criteria. We do think you need to consider tax exempt property. We do think you need to consider the services that cities, villages, and towns offer. But my concern is trying to figure out what this formula is and recreate that formula to make something that makes sense. To Senator Martinez's point, you're going to have winners and losers. We don't want to have that. You need to hold aim harmless, essentially, and maybe start fresh. But I'm also very concerned about the time it is going to take to get us there. And that we already waited fifteen years for our $50,000,000 increase. And if we have to wait another fifteen more for us to figure out a new formula, that's going to be very, very difficult for all of our members. So I just want to make that point about AIM. I know my colleagues here are going to talk about swap. Swap is probably our next biggest priority. This concept of a chips for water and sewer is very, very important. Not only are our members struggling to get the grants in the first instance, but we just learned from EFC last week that even when they are awarded the grants, they're struggling to get that money drawn down because there are just too many hoops they have to jump through. So we really think that formula driven funding for water and sewer is the way to go for our members.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow (Chair)]: CHRIS Thank you.

[Chris Koetzle (Executive Director, Association of Towns of the State of New York)]: Evening. My name is Chris Ketzley. I'm the executive director of the New York State Association of Towns. I regret that we only have three minutes because we have a lot to talk about in regards to towns. But I think I'll take as much time as I can to talk about, really, the differences of towns. Towns operate under the narrowest revenue base of any general purpose local government in New York. 45% of town revenue comes from property tax. And you'll see in our testimony we submitted that is way out of whack with our other local governments. Other revenue sources include shared sales tax. However, towns do not have the independent authority to levy sales tax and instead rely entirely on county governments to allocate the portion of county imposed sales tax. Even then, shared sales tax accounts for only about 8% of total town revenue. Finally, state aid represents only 4% for towns compared to 16% for cities and 11% for counties. Most additional state funding is through competitive grants. NIOT took a look at this and grant awards through the CFA process, for example, for 2019, and the level of funding available and percentage of awards that went to towns varied significantly. But, for example, in 2022, only 3% of the CFA grants went to towns, while 82% went to non municipal groups, like not for profits. In 2023, towns received 5% of CFA grants. And more of these numbers are in the testimony, I'll skip over those. We are in a tough spot. We rely on the levy. We need help. We need new revenue streams. We need to help us to respond to some of the pilots, the IDA pilots that are handed out when they take our levy away from us. We have no other revenue source. These are all issues I'd love to bring up if I had more time. But I think I would rather amplify what Barb just said. We strongly support strongly, our members are strongly supporting. And we thank the Senate for their leadership on this, the swap program. Critically important. We are asking that the governor in her 300 I'm sorry, dollars 3,700,000,000.0 investment in the budget, we applaud that, But we are asking for $100,000,000 of the additional $250,000,000 that goes to a CHIPS like formula based program called SWAP. And I don't have time to get into that too much more, but hopefully in the questions we can. Lastly, I do want to touch on the governor's proposal on Seeker. We are supportive of her effort to cut red tape, but we have some issues that we need to address. Number one, many of our towns rely on Seeker for site plan review. They do not have a site plan review process otherwise. So if you take that away and you move those things to type two, there'll be no traffic studies, there'll be no lighting effects, there'll be light pollution. We need to make sure we're protecting towns that don't have site plan And the shot clock must start after the scoping of the EIS. Thank you.

[Senator Liz Krueger (Chair, Senate Finance)]: Thank you.

[Stephen J. Acquario (Executive Director, NYS Association of Counties)]: Good evening, members of the legislature. My name is Steven Aquario. I'm the executive director of the New York Association of Counties. It's my honor, my pleasure, and privilege to represent the 57 counties of the state of New York, as well as the five boroughs of the City Of New York. We're here today on behalf of the counties and the city to thank you for your consistent and constant support of the Medicaid cap. This is a vitally important program to stabilize the local property tax base. So more keeping the continuation of this Medicaid local cost cap in place, the New York counties are currently paying nearly $8,000,000,000, including the city, for this mandated expense at the local level. That's more than all of the 3,000 counties in The United States combined. We thank you. Your support has been critical. Recently, Washington has imposed freezes. We saw it with childcare funding freeze that happened because of a situation in Minnesota. It immediately caused chaos in New York State. We saw the food lines with food insecurity in New York State with SNAP funding. This year alone in October, the counties of New York are looking at a $186,000,000 administrative cost shift. Our budgets are in place. We can't afford to administer the cost of this essential food security program for New Yorkers. Through no fault of our own, there are inherent error rates that are built into this system that is going to penalize this state over $1,000,000,000 next year and at the end of this year. We ask for your assistance. We put it in our testimony there. We're asking you to help us for a waiver with Washington DC to allow Medicaid to be used for Medicaid assisted treatment, MAT, for substance abuse in our jails. The state recently applied for a eleven fifteen waiver for Medicaid in state prisons, but they didn't allow this for local jails. This is important. We need your support and your help. We need you to address raise the age funding, delinking it from the property tax cap, convert this to grants so the counties can help our children in need. We need you to help fund state operated youth detention facilities and we need you to help fix the competency, mental health competency issue that's plaguing our court system right now where we can't restore competency to individuals charged with crimes. Fully fund New York State's Opportunity Promise Scholarship Program, free community college for All is not in fact free. The counties of New York are paying a share of this which was not the intent. Finally, we're asking you to restore the safety net program back to a 5050 arrangement. The temporary assistance to needy families is a federal program for five years. New York State has a safety net after that five years. You have shifted those costs 75% to the counties and 25% back to the state. We ask you to go fifty-fifty in that program. Thank you for your attention.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow (Chair)]: Thank you, Steve. Our first question would be Assemblywoman Solages.

[Assemblymember Michaelle C. Solages (Chair, Assembly Local Governments)]: Good evening. I appreciate all your work on helping to bring a greater voice to local governments. And so I'm just going to jump right in. Failing to file a required financial document on time is an early indicator of financial stress for municipalities. And as of September 2025, there are about two forty municipalities that have fallen behind on their annual financial filings, which is a red flag. You know, they're suffering. And so I want to talk about how we can help. Are there any specific reasons or trends identified that will give reasons why these municipalities are falling behind or failing to maintain their records?

[Chris Koetzle (Executive Director, Association of Towns of the State of New York)]: Who wants to take that first? I don't to waste time. So let me jump in on towns. I can tell you it may be different for the other levels. But I think it's a workforce development issue, by and large. Towns are having a very hard time, and we can get into all the issues of why we're having a hard time employing people in local government. But very difficult to get comptrollers, very difficult to have continuity. There's been turnover, particularly on the town level lately, in the elections for supervisors in particular. So those are the things that are starting to happen. And I think that is hurting. And we can get into the workforce development stuff later.

[Speaker 4]: The only thing I'll add is and I 100% agree with what Chris said it is workforce development, retention, recruitment. But even for the folks who have been there for years, it's a capacity issue. They're doing the job of 10 people because some of these places have two and three people in the office all day. And they're dealing with the residents and all the other things that they have to deal with. So I think they want the ones we talk to, the members we talk to, because we try to help get the word out about this. We say, you know, this is important for you to do this. And they understand that. It's just a capacity capacity issue. Issue.

[Assemblymember Michaelle C. Solages (Chair, Assembly Local Governments)]: And so what can we do to build up the workforce? And is there anything in this executive budget that does that?

[Chris Koetzle (Executive Director, Association of Towns of the State of New York)]: Well, there's one thing that I think in particular is to raise the limit for retirees that wanna come back and work. The amount of knowledge they have is astonishing, but that has not been increased. It's at 35,000. We would like it to go to 50,000. And that would help us retain people who want to have quality of life issues, maybe spend time with grandchildren, but then still give some time to the town and the other governments.

[Assemblymember Michaelle C. Solages (Chair, Assembly Local Governments)]: All right. And now I want

[Senator Liz Krueger (Chair, Senate Finance)]: to talk about SWAP.

[Assemblymember Michaelle C. Solages (Chair, Assembly Local Governments)]: Clean water infrastructure. What can we do to get this done? How much? What are your comments?

[Speaker 4]: I think Chris may have mentioned. So the governor in her executive budget, she put the full 500 in for the CWIA, and then she added the $2.50 for the additional water infrastructure. So our suggestion is perhaps because it's fully funded and then you have the additional $2.50 that you could take 100,000,000 as a starter point, dollars 100,000,000 from the $2.50 and put it in the swap program.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow (Chair)]: All right.

[Assemblymember Michaelle C. Solages (Chair, Assembly Local Governments)]: I'm running out of time, but I definitely want talk about raise age and decoupling it from the tax cap. So we'll talk about that offline and making sure municipalities get the monies.

[Mayor Mike Spano (Yonkers)]: Thank you. Thank you.

[Senator Liz Krueger (Chair, Senate Finance)]: Thank you. Senator Chris Ryan.

[Senator (last name Ryan), Chair, Senate Cities Committee]: Okay. Came up quick. Thank you. Two questions. Executive Director Barbara Van Epps, thank you very much. I want to extend a thank you with your testimonial support of my earnings limitation bill. So thank you. So regarding the workforce development, in addition to the passing of this bill, what else can we do to help in incentivize workforce development?

[Speaker 4]: We've been spending a lot of time talking about civil service, and it would take us hours to get into that here. But there's a lot of I mean, everyone we talk about this all the time, how archaic the civil service system is. It's been in place for way too long. It doesn't work now. The fact that provisional titles end up being provisional for years, the fact that there are tests required for positions that you've already either been certified by the state or had to take a separate test by the state. So you've gotten this certification and then you'll have to go and take another civil service exam that doesn't make sense. The frequency by which the tests are offered, they don't happen frequent enough for us to fill these roles. So we are just having a terrible time navigating the civil service system.

[Assemblymember Ari Brown]: Okay.

[Senator (last name Ryan), Chair, Senate Cities Committee]: Mr. Kwari, so you mentioned just now the community college programs that, necessarily, aren't free that aren't free. Can you no, because I was going need some information. But if you could give me some information on it, I would like to hear it. I don't really want to I mean, it's good in a policy, but if we're shifting costs, mandated costs, onto the counties, then that's not a I'd like to hear a little bit more about that. Secondly, question to what extent, if any, has the recent withholding of federal funding impacted our counties?

[Stephen J. Acquario (Executive Director, NYS Association of Counties)]: Going to be devastating. The child care block grant programs, social services block grant. Look, these are our children. If we don't have an ability to care for children, parents can't work. It's just that simple. Washington DC found evidence of fraud in Minnesota and we have we don't see that in New York. So that will have a real serious consequence. It just can't shift that to the county taxes. We just we have no capacity to handle that nor do we have capacity to handle the SNAP administration and benefit costs. They are literally talking about shifting a benefit since the inception of this food program for Americans to local governments. Basically that would Historically, be they paid by Washington with a broader tax base.

[Senator (last name Ryan), Chair, Senate Cities Committee]: That would wipe out county government. It's not even close to it's I mean, it kind of came from county government thirteen years. Would just be either counties would be bankrupt in twenty four hours or nobody would get their social services, foster care, social services benefits, the ability to maintain any of those pass throughs. So I'm happy to hear that. Thank Thank

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow (Chair)]: you. Assembly Dean Brown. Thank

[Assemblymember Ari Brown]: you, Chairman Pretlow. Thank you all for being here. I'm a small town village elected for the past almost thirty years, so I appreciate you all being here. Director Van Epps, would you agree that a village of 5,000 residents does not have the fiscal capacity that New York City does, yet it's often expected to comply with the same even unfunded mandates.

[Speaker 4]: I'm sorry, I missed after a village of 5,000 residents.

[Assemblymember Ari Brown]: It does not have the fiscal capacity that New York City does, yet it's often expected to comply with the same state mandates.

[Speaker 4]: I think the question was, does a village of 5,000 have the physical capacity to deal with the same state mandates that a larger city does?

[Assemblymember Patrick Burke (Chair, Assembly Cities)]: Correct.

[Speaker 4]: I mean, clearly, no, unfortunately, which is no. I would say no.

[Mayor Mike Spano (Yonkers)]: But

[Assemblymember Ari Brown]: It was just an easy soft one.

[Speaker 4]: But it's all it's all about scale. I mean, hopefully, some of those mandates, the way they affect the larger cities are are again gonna be probably a little bit different than how they affect the smaller villages. But, no, any unfunded mandates, we don't like them across the board, whether it's a small village or a big city.

[Assemblymember Ari Brown]: Exactly. Great point. And for either one of the other directors, when the governor or in this case, the city mayor proposes policies that would significantly influence local zoning decisions, many municipal leaders expressed concerns like we always do about the future of home rule. Home rule's a big deal with us. From your conversations with members, did those proposals heighten fears that the state is moving towards greater centralization of land use authority?

[Chris Koetzle (Executive Director, Association of Towns of the State of New York)]: Chris, I mean, think that's certainly a concern for the towns. There's no question about it. And we are very adamantly, passionately supportive in advancing, protecting, and moving forward the concept of home rule. We will defend home rule because that is the basis of this state. It's the basis of our democracy, and that is a definite concern. That said, I think of all the folks we've talked to in the legislature and in the governor's office had been very supportive and understanding of that concern. And they have listened and we've talked and had good dialogue. So we're very I wouldn't use the word fear. I would say that there's a concern, but we're very much optimistic Thank about going

[Assemblymember Ari Brown]: Director, you want to add to that?

[Stephen J. Acquario (Executive Director, NYS Association of Counties)]: G. Well, the counties don't have the zoning authority that the municipalities do. But I would like to extend a thank you for raising the issue of home rule. We cherish that. It's constitutionally protected. There's a bill of rights for local government that's codified in statute.

[Senator James Sanders Jr.]: People G.

[Assemblymember Ari Brown]: You have your planning commission, I'm sure.

[Speaker 2]: I'm sorry?

[Assemblymember Ari Brown]: G. G. Counties have their planning commissions.

[Stephen J. Acquario (Executive Director, NYS Association of Counties)]: G. We have a planning role, yes. We have a county wide planning, but we don't have zoning authority, though.

[Assemblymember Ari Brown]: I appreciate your answers. Thank you. Couldn't I'm be an old zoning board chairman, so thank you for that.

[Chris Koetzle (Executive Director, Association of Towns of the State of New York)]: Thank you.

[Senator Liz Krueger (Chair, Senate Finance)]: Okay. Thank you.

[Assemblymember Latrice Walker]: Senator Wyke?

[Shamir Settle (Immigration Research Initiative / NYS Census Partnership)]: Good evening. Thank you for being here. I'm familiar with what you, the town and counties I represented. I worked in the county. I also worked in the town for nine years as a receiver of taxes. So a lot of the issues you're talking about I'm very familiar with. I have three quick questions if you could all give me three quick answers because they're quick but valuable information. What would you say the biggest financial hurdles of this year's proposed budget by the governor would be for you? Give me one, two biggest hurdles.

[Speaker 4]: Flat funding. I mean we're thrilled that we're

[Chris Koetzle (Executive Director, Association of Towns of the State of New York)]: not cut but we want to grow. Swap. We need swap.

[Stephen J. Acquario (Executive Director, NYS Association of Counties)]: Yeah. While we support the governor's flexible waste water and wastewater program.

[Shamir Settle (Immigration Research Initiative / NYS Census Partnership)]: Very good, thank you. And how are the mandates that New York State has been handing out left and right, how is that adding stress to our local budgets?

[Stephen J. Acquario (Executive Director, NYS Association of Counties)]: Well, for me, for the counties, we send $12,000,000,000 a year for our three programs preschool, special education, early intervention, and Medicaid. I mean, that's money we can't use locally. So that really hurts us locally every year to do that.

[Chris Koetzle (Executive Director, Association of Towns of the State of New York)]: On a limited time, I'm just going throw out one mandate that is very easy and nonsensical that it still exists is the public notice mandate in newspapers. It is costing local governments somewhere between 6,000,000 and $8,000,000 a year. It's costing taxpayers inefficient. We're much more efficient. We've got the .gov mandate. Thank you to your leadership for that and the governor signing that bill. We've got our .gov. We can put all our public notices there. Public notice mandate should be eliminated.

[Speaker 4]: And the only one I'll add to that is competitive bidding thresholds. So they raised the thresholds in the governor's for state agencies. Ours have been flat for fifteen years. The cost of everything is going up. So even the most modest purchases that we make, we have to go through the whole procurement process with sealed bids, with legal notices. It's expensive. It's time consuming. And it's just not serving the purpose. I don't think it was intended to serve initially.

[Shamir Settle (Immigration Research Initiative / NYS Census Partnership)]: All right, last question. If you could add or cut something from the budget, what would it be?

[Chris Koetzle (Executive Director, Association of Towns of the State of New York)]: I'm going to double dip and say swap,

[Speaker 4]: I would add. I'll go swap all the way.

[Stephen J. Acquario (Executive Director, NYS Association of Counties)]: We'd ask that the state assume the cost of the federal cost shift in SNAP.

[Shamir Settle (Immigration Research Initiative / NYS Census Partnership)]: And do you support the CHIP benefit card?

[Stephen J. Acquario (Executive Director, NYS Association of Counties)]: I don't know what that's referring to.

[Shamir Settle (Immigration Research Initiative / NYS Census Partnership)]: Okay. So it's adding the CHIPs to the benefit card so that we can avoid fraud, waste and abuse?

[Stephen J. Acquario (Executive Director, NYS Association of Counties)]: Sure, of course.

[Senator Liz Krueger (Chair, Senate Finance)]: Okay, great.

[Senator Roxanne J. Persaud]: Thank you

[Mayor Sharon Owens (Syracuse)]: so much.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow (Chair)]: Woman Levenberg.

[Assemblymember Dana Levenberg]: Thank you so much. Another former town supervisor. So appreciate you. And, also, I just wanna say I support swap and, the newspaper mandate's a big one. Obviously, Medicaid. I also have legislation that would make it easier for, the CWIA monies to be used towards engineering planning grants for the clean water. Because right now, they they're only able to be used for, I mean, for drinking water because they're only able to be used for, sewer and, storm water right now. We've heard a lot from municipalities that they can't get the grants together, and so we're not getting that money out the door. I know you talked about that earlier. I think that, you know, it's really important. I just wanna know what your opinion is about that. I also, know you know, we're obviously still struggling with housing, across the state, not just our state, but lots of states. But, we have some some member, Burdick and I, had been working together to try to come up with some solutions. He also was a former town supervisor, including a housing action plan for everyone where, again, we know it's a little mandate y, but, the idea that we could maybe come up with some funding to help our communities put together housing action plans that actually address their specific needs, and making sure that it addresses not only people who are living there, people who want to live there, and maybe people who work there as well. Would love to hear your opinion on that and if you think that there's a solution also for transit oriented development, which is also something that, you know, I'm interested in, maybe not what the governor introduced in her, pro housing compact, but something else.

[Speaker 4]: I will very quickly address the CWIA issue. Because I want to be crystal clear about this. We are not against the grants. See the benefit of the grants. They have been transformational for a number of communities. We just want the grants in addition to the swap program because of the capacity issues. So any expansion you can do and make those grants eligible for more types of projects, we would 100% support

[Mayor Mike Spano (Yonkers)]: that. I agree with Barbara.

[Mayor Sharon Owens (Syracuse)]: Posing?

[Stephen J. Acquario (Executive Director, NYS Association of Counties)]: Well, we keep bringing up drinking water and wastewater because it's that important to housing. And having a dedicated, reliable stream, the the commitment by the state, meaning you and our governor, has been phenomenal in investing in this. But we've not seen anything like this PFAS and one four dioxane water contamination in the history of this state, in this country. It is literally everywhere. It is in every grain of soil across the entire state, let alone in our drinking water. So the more you can pump formula driven clean water funds to the local governments, we are grateful. Thank you.

[Senator Jessica Scarcella-Spanton]: Thank you. Thank

[Senator Liz Krueger (Chair, Senate Finance)]: you. Senator Rollison.

[Senator Rob Rolison]: Thank you, Madam Chair. Good to see the three of you here again. We talked today with all kinds of different folks from different levels of government on state aid, AIM, right on down the list, mandates, costs. What are you seeing in the increase in municipalities in your respective organizations having to break the tax cap because of the flat funding, no funding, with costs rising? I've heard it's, of course, the numbers are increasing, I just would like to hear from

[Mayor Mike Spano (Yonkers)]: each of Yeah, on

[Chris Koetzle (Executive Director, Association of Towns of the State of New York)]: we do. So for towns, there is a general desire to try to stay under the tax cap because people believe in the principle of the tax cap and they trying to do that. But with health insurance, which I hope we have a chance to talk about today, with the health insurance premiums going up 14%, 15%, 18%, you really can't do that. So we are seeing there is a study on this from the association. We can get that for you. I don't have the number in my head, but we are seeing a greater move now towards breaking the cap than we've seen over the past years.

[Speaker 4]: I'll just add that we I mean, our members are the same way that Chris said. They they think no one wants to break the cap because no one wants to raise property taxes. But I always remind our members that they need to educate the public on exactly what that property tax cap is because it's a tax on the or it's a cap on the levy. It's not a cap on the rate. So even when you stay within that property tax cap 2%, that doesn't mean your taxes aren't going to go up 10%. So they're very concerned about this. They worry about it. And I say, make sure your residents understand exactly what's going on. And if they really want the services that you need to provide for them, they may understand why you have to break that cap.

[Stephen J. Acquario (Executive Director, NYS Association of Counties)]: We have over 12 counties breaching the state property tax cap in a since in over a decade. We've never seen anything like this. This year, we had a dozen counties breach that tax cap. As Chris mentioned, health insurance cost is a large driver of that. There are other programs like under the criminal procedure laws, section seven thirty. These are individuals found incompetent to stand trial. They're just sent to a state institution, and that's spiking costs for county governments all across the state. But, look, delivering the cost of state services locally is expensive. It's rising. It's growing. Just think about it. Your property tax cap is flat. We can't raise property taxes nor should we. But we can't raise them. So we're relying on sales taxes to fund our governments. And that's it's up and down with the economy.

[Senator Rob Rolison]: In my last twenty seconds, is it safe to say that the retiree cap on salaries is hurting staffing within the communities and counties that you represent?

[Stephen J. Acquario (Executive Director, NYS Association of Counties)]: 100%. Please adjust that cap.

[Assemblymember Patrick Burke (Chair, Assembly Cities)]: Thank you.

[Speaker 4]: J. Thank you, Senator Ryan. He's got the bill in. I'm really good.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow (Chair)]: J. Assemblyman Palissamo.

[Assemblymember Phil Palmesano (Ranking Member, Assembly Transportation/Cities)]: J. Yes. Thank you for all being here. SWAP, I think, you have bipartisan support for that. Something we've been advocating. AIM, we certainly understand. The other big one I want to put on your radar, which I know you are well aware of, we advocate all the time, CHIPS, that's money goes right to your communities for local roads, bridges, and culverts. So 87% of the roads are maintained by our local municipalities. 52% of our bridges are owned and maintained by our local municipalities. So keep that message going, too. We know the unfunded mandate issue. And Steve, I'll talk with you quick. You mentioned the Medicaid cap. Thank you for your advocacy and all your members. I mean, that was probably one of the most significant actions they take. How much does that cap approximately save property taxpayers since this

[Stephen J. Acquario (Executive Director, NYS Association of Counties)]: I think it's $60,000,000,000

[Karen Wharton (Fair Elections for New York)]: Yeah.

[Assemblymember Phil Palmesano (Ranking Member, Assembly Transportation/Cities)]: Thank you. Thank you for that. And you mentioned other mandates. If there was like one or two quick ones that you would point if you get relief, know because there's always that thing about nine for 90. Is that still nine for 90, or is it different?

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow (Chair)]: It's probably

[Stephen J. Acquario (Executive Director, NYS Association of Counties)]: a nine, about 78% now, nine program.

[Assemblymember Phil Palmesano (Ranking Member, Assembly Transportation/Cities)]: If there's one unfunded mandate you could

[Stephen J. Acquario (Executive Director, NYS Association of Counties)]: hit right now, the Preschool special education.

[Assemblymember Phil Palmesano (Ranking Member, Assembly Transportation/Cities)]: Okay, thank you. And then, Barbara, I know in our cities, vacant and distressed and abandoned properties continue to be an obstacle to revitalize in many Upstate cities. What tools at your disposal are helpful to your municipalities to address that? And what more could the state do to help you on that mission?

[Speaker 4]: Well, think that in terms of the proposal in the governor's budget to increase the number of land banks, we think that's a good idea because they are being very helpful in the communities that they're serving to get rid of vacant and abandoned property. And then there's been some new tax exemptions that have gone not as part of the budget, but that we have been pushing as standalone legislation, would help with that, a different ways. You can use 19A or the RPAPL. But it's really restore New York. There's another program that I don't think made it in the budget this year. But that was very, very helpful to communities to try to tackle the vacant and abandoned property issues. So again, oftentimes it's about funding.

[Assemblymember Phil Palmesano (Ranking Member, Assembly Transportation/Cities)]: Okay. I'm sorry, didn't want mute your cough. Broadband access. I mean, that's an issue that's been a challenge for especially our Upstate rural communities. We have the Connect for All, $1,000,000,000 program that came in after COVID. We know internet was a problem before. It was exacerbated during it. Seems to be a question about the inequity between Upstate rural communities versus downstate. Anything you know, Chris, I'll give you a chance to talk on how what we could do better to help with the broadband deployment, what the obstacles are to get that access?

[Chris Koetzle (Executive Director, Association of Towns of the State of New York)]: Well, again, you know, it's a grant program. It's been somewhat of a problem to get that money out. We've heard this before with other, you know, other programs. Same with broadband access. Help towns access that money easier, quicker, and identify those areas that are lacking, which I don't know. I think there's a study. There's a study that's occurring, and that's gonna help help us identify that.

[Assemblymember Phil Palmesano (Ranking Member, Assembly Transportation/Cities)]: Thank you. Thank

[Stephen J. Acquario (Executive Director, NYS Association of Counties)]: you. Thank you.

[Senator Liz Krueger (Chair, Senate Finance)]: You. Senator Martinez.

[Senator Monica R. Martinez (Chair, Senate Local Government)]: Good evening. Good to see you all. Just a couple of quick questions. One, Barbara, thank you for assisting and making possible suggestions to the AIM issue that we're all all three of you are facing. Another question I have regarding formula and not chips.

[Stephen J. Acquario (Executive Director, NYS Association of Counties)]: Mhmm.

[Senator Monica R. Martinez (Chair, Senate Local Government)]: It is my understanding please correct me if I am wrong, but we do know that the allocations are disproportionately allocated between municipalities. And it doesn't account for traffic volume and roadway usage. Is that correct? Mhmm. Okay. So in that scenario, and for example, obviously, on Long Island I'm sorry. I'm freezing right now. Fewer lane miles of state regions. Are there any considerations of revisiting this formula and seeing how we can change it and see how municipalities can take greater advantage of this funding?

[Stephen J. Acquario (Executive Director, NYS Association of Counties)]: I think it'd be very difficult to do that. Okay. Of course, we would work with you on the legislature to do that, but that was a very complicated formula to put together to get consensus amongst everybody. But you raise good points, and that was fifty years ago probably when that formula was created.

[Senator Monica R. Martinez (Chair, Senate Local Government)]: Okay. But we're seeing the effects that, what, fifteen years ago now we are seeing present. Right? So I I think we need to work to see how look. Look. We can put money in, but, again, every single time we put money in, if we do put money in, every district is going to be different. Every municipality is going to be different. Some people have more mileage than others and I think we need to fix that.

[Stephen J. Acquario (Executive Director, NYS Association of Counties)]: Suggest a supplemental instead of adjusting the underlying formula.

[Senator Jessica Scarcella-Spanton]: Okay.

[Stephen J. Acquario (Executive Director, NYS Association of Counties)]: That's just my opinion.

[Senator Monica R. Martinez (Chair, Senate Local Government)]: Same.

[Speaker 4]: Yeah, because there's that whole concept of winners and losers. I think anytime there's inequities, we need to look at the formula. But of course, again, it's a process. And you don't want to have winners and losers. So you have to hold the current formula harmless, if you will, and then work from there to try to address the inequities. And that just I mean, it costs more money, but that's the only way it works, in my opinion.

[Chris Koetzle (Executive Director, Association of Towns of the State of New York)]: J. But I do think simplification is important. Formula, I'm not sure goodwill hunting can figure it out sometimes. It's crazy. And I think sometimes to simplify, it gives local governments more certainty.

[Senator Monica R. Martinez (Chair, Senate Local Government)]: Thank you. I do look forward to working on something. Mhmm. Next, I know that senator Raulston touched upon this, and that is increasing the salary cap. If we were to increase this cap, how would that affect your local budgets?

[Stephen J. Acquario (Executive Director, NYS Association of Counties)]: Well, it would be we have a workforce recruitment problem right now. In rural areas of the state, we don't have bad applications. We have none. There are no applications in public health, in social work, child welfare services. We can't have people to do these jobs that were mandated to provide. So having the ability for someone to retire and come back, it would have millions of dollars of benefit to the local taxpayers. It's really needed.

[Council Speaker Julie Menin (New York City Council)]: Thank you.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow (Chair)]: Thank you. Assemblyman Manktelow.

[Speaker 2]: Thank you, Chair, and thank you for being here this evening. Talking a little bit about our local governments, small villages, small towns, even some of our smaller counties, there's lots and lots of money that gets put into a state budget. And what we're seeing in our local municipalities is they don't have the time, the money, or the people power to even go after grants, the amount of red tape that goes along with all of that. What do we need to do as legislators to help simplify that, make it possible for some of these smaller communities to have a chance to go after those dollars?

[Chris Koetzle (Executive Director, Association of Towns of the State of New York)]: You know, I think one of the things we've talked about as a group here, and with the governor's office even, is one stop shopping. Can we have one place that all the grants for the entire state of New York are there and so people can you know, towns can easily or local governments can easily go and find those? And can we make them you know, give them some assistance so that it isn't putting an application in and then having it sent back and have to redo the application and then, you know, back and forth? Have some help in that process so we don't have to hire engineers at a lot of money. Those are the two, I think, immediate things, easy low hanging fruit.

[Speaker 2]: Is that the same for the

[Speaker 4]: village I would say the same. I mean, the whole grant writing process is so difficult for those smaller communities. So to the extent we can have more technical assistance and maybe even an agency like the Department of State that actually can help local governments come in hands on, give them the assistance they need. Because once they do it once, it gets easier every time. But it's getting over that initial hurdle.

[Stephen J. Acquario (Executive Director, NYS Association of Counties)]: We would have the same reaction to that as well for even urban rural counties. Centralized data center where we could go to, like the consolidated funding application is rooted by the state. You have done progress in this over the years to help us, but it's complicated and let alone accessing federal grants. The state could really help us access greater money from the federal government, too.

[Speaker 2]: J. Yeah, absolutely. Because some of the small communities, they don't have the people power. They don't have the finances to even pay for a grant writer or even hiring an engineer to see what they need to do. My next question what are electric prices doing to your communities, to your governments?

[Stephen J. Acquario (Executive Director, NYS Association of Counties)]: I've never seen anything like it. The reaction by elected officials, the cost of utility bills last couple of years now has really become a very serious issue. More and more municipalities weighing in with the Public Service Commission. It's got the attention of the state right now, but it's a very serious problem.

[Chris Koetzle (Executive Director, Association of Towns of the State of New York)]: We agree. You know, it's one of those cost drivers right up there now with health insurance. You know, electric costs is just breaking the backs of towns. And the local governments are getting angry over it.

[Speaker 4]: Yeah, I would say utilities in general, not just electric, but across the board.

[Speaker 2]: And going back to having people that job offers, fixing tier six would help you, wouldn't it?

[Stephen J. Acquario (Executive Director, NYS Association of Counties)]: We need help with recruitment.

[Dustin Czarny (NYS Election Commissioners Association)]: Yeah, okay.

[Speaker 2]: Thank you.

[Assemblymember Ari Brown]: Thank you, Chair.

[Senator Liz Krueger (Chair, Senate Finance)]: Thank you. Thank you all very much. So that's the same question for all of you. Because you pointed out that there's real concerns if we change the formula for any kind of revenue sharing. Because yes, there could possibly be winners and losers. But I know I have asked in previous years and I've gotten that answer also. And yet, every year it seems like the problem gets worse. And none of you are being helped by your not doing anything. So are there other states who've actually taken a very different approach and when you all take a look you go, wow, that might actually work for us here?

[Chris Koetzle (Executive Director, Association of Towns of the State of New York)]: I don't know that, but I I'm in a national association, so I will definitely bring that question to that town association and solicit some some ideas from them.

[Speaker 4]: The only reason why I was smiling was because just yesterday in our office, we are looking about hiring a legislative intern. And we want that person to look at that very issue and competitive bidding limits. And all of the things we're dealing here with in New York State, we can probably learn a lot by looking at some of the other states. And so revenue sharing is one of the things we really want to look at. Because I know there are other states that do have revenue sharing that are much more robust than we do. But I don't know how that formula works in those states.

[Senator Liz Krueger (Chair, Senate Finance)]: So Stephen, you've been around

[Assemblymember Jo Anne Simon]: forever? Well,

[Stephen J. Acquario (Executive Director, NYS Association of Counties)]: it's nice to see you Yes. On the journey mean formulas, look, they're meant to be updated, amended, I don't know, like Chris said, around the country. But we certainly would support looking into formulas and changing things where they benefit the modern needs, like Senator Martinez mentioned, with different issues in Long Island. That formula for chips put together fifty years ago, it might have changed right now. The counties were removed twenty five years ago from revenue sharing. Why? It was a false promise by the state to take over preschool special education. They did it for one year, took all our revenue sharing away, 200,000,000. That'd be over 1,000,000,000 today. So of course, we would want to be back in the revenue sharing. As the mayor of the City Of New York mentioned today, he wants to be back in revenue sharing. The state should support its local governments. We would be happy to be participating and looking at modern formula driven programs to help your local governments.

[Council Speaker Julie Menin (New York City Council)]: Because it also just seems to

[Senator Liz Krueger (Chair, Senate Finance)]: me, you talk about the other things that, like the smallest places having the most expense in trying to catch up with these things. Well, if the twenty first century, like, we're using our smartphones to do 8,000,000,000 things we didn't even know somebody else could do for us until ten minutes ago, surely there's other ways for people to piggyback to get this done with fewer staff, you know, where you don't have the money for them anyway. So I would also hope that we could all look at whether some states are figuring it out.

[Speaker 2]: Thank you.

[Senator Liz Krueger (Chair, Senate Finance)]: Thank you all very much for

[Senator (last name Ryan), Chair, Senate Cities Committee]: your work.

[Mayor Sean Ryan (Buffalo)]: Thank you.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow (Chair)]: Thank you. Thank you, Senator. Assemblyman Otis.

[Assemblymember Steve Otis]: Thank you. I want to thank each of you for different things you talked about already in your written statements. Barbara, on AIM and the complexity of the formula, I think reform of the formula should be an off budget discussion with more thought. Biggest thing we can do is increase aim, which would be a tremendous help. Chris, thank you for your written testimony, which you

[Comptroller Mark Levine (New York City)]: mentioned a little having to

[Assemblymember Steve Otis]: do with Seeker, and the complexity of the details, possible unintended consequences. I'll also note that the environmental groups have put together a letter detailing their concerns about language. I think that has to all be dealt with by all of us very carefully. And Steve, thank you for highlighting the hit to counties especially for social service health cuts at the federal level and how that is making counties' financial situation more precarious. I want to talk about, you know, one of my favorite topics, EMS. And we're in a planning process that's going to go on. I want to forecast ahead a problem we're all going to have to revisit, which is how are we going to fund EMS where we have to grow programs because no one really wants to talk about that? Is it going to be outside the tax cap? Is it going to be special districts, dedicated revenues? Any thoughts from any of you about where you think that goes? Because clearly, local governments are going to have to assume more responsibility, but they can't do it without access to more money.

[Speaker 2]: J. Well, I'll just take a

[Stephen J. Acquario (Executive Director, NYS Association of Counties)]: quick swing. I mean, it's a matter of state concern, right? I mean, this is life and death. So the fact that the state legislature is paying attention to this and working with local governments, we thank you for it. It's going to be an ongoing issue with recruitment and retention with fire and EMS services. So these planning process is underway, and we'll work with you to get it done.

[Chris Koetzle (Executive Director, Association of Towns of the State of New York)]: You know, our concern is out of the tax cap, that would be great, special districts. Whatever though, it's still going to be a property tax. And we've heard today and you don't have to hear it from me because you heard it from the others already we're at a breaking point with property tax. The question is, can a community afford it? And as a former supervisor of fifteen years, my town can never afford it, never.

[Assemblymember Steve Otis]: But Chris, couldn't we also be saying to the state, if this is a life and death problem, the state has to come up with some money to a dedicated stream? Think

[Stephen J. Acquario (Executive Director, NYS Association of Counties)]: a great question.

[Speaker 4]: And I do want to thank you for your leadership on this. I think we did make some progress this year. We were disappointed that the bill, the tax cap bill did not get signed by the governor. But this assessment bill that you led the charge on assembly member is going to really get the ball moving. And we think there's a lot of good things that can

[Assemblymember Steve Otis]: come I look forward to working with you and all of your members. We really have to get that problem solved. So thank you.

[Stephen J. Acquario (Executive Director, NYS Association of Counties)]: Thank you for your leadership. Thank you for your leadership.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow (Chair)]: Assemblywoman Shimsky.

[Assemblymember MaryJane Shimsky]: Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to all of you. I so enjoy visiting with you on a semi regular basis. The $100,000,000 to get swap off the ground, Just I could just use a little bit of sense of proportion. If I were a village of 10,000 people, how much money would that get me?

[Chris Koetzle (Executive Director, Association of Towns of the State of New York)]: Yeah, actually we did the study. The association did the study for the towns. And we figured let's just say it's somewhere between 5,000 and 15,000, right? Because the formula is complex and we don't know. We asked our members. Our members came back emphatically saying that that would be huge. They said things like, We can purchase 12 manhole covers and risers, possibly new That's pumps for our pump tremendous. We could upgrade our piping in our pump house. The piping has been around since the 1960s. This funding would make a big impact on rural water systems. These are quotes. It would give a boost to our asset replacement programs depending on what it can be used for. We can replace valves and hydrants, rehab pits, all kinds of things. I've had members tell me they can buy chlorine a lot.

[Dustin Czarny (NYS Election Commissioners Association)]: Got you.

[Mayor Sharon Owens (Syracuse)]: A lot.

[Assemblymember MaryJane Shimsky]: Okay. And hopefully we could build on that. The second thing I wanted to bring up, you you triggered me with the notice requirements thing. The hearing in October where we got a whole laundry list. I'm working through it, sending stuff to bill drafting. But the thing is, any one of them is only so much. But when you start stringing them together, it starts looking like real money. So I would urge you, please keep coming with the lists. And, you know, some things are going to be easier to get than others. I hope that a few of them will be easy to get. But you have allies here who are willing to work on that piece. Because if we can't raise taxes and we don't want to throw our children out on the street, the only other choice is to figure out what costs we can actually tighten as well. That's kind of the third dimension of the box. And as I said, I'm willing to work with you on that. Now, I want to ask the lead pipe question I asked. And this is going to be like five word answers. But eyeball it. What proportion of our towns, of our counties, of our villages are having problems keeping up with lead pipe replacement.

[Speaker 4]: I have to say the vast majority of our members are concerned about it. There's still many of them are still going through the analysis. But I think a bigger concern for us right now is the fact that we don't think we have the ability to spend money on the private side lead pipes, so lead pipes that are on private property. And that's why we were meeting with the EFC. We're working with some of your colleagues right now to try to address that issue.

[Assemblymember MaryJane Shimsky]: Okay.

[Stephen J. Acquario (Executive Director, NYS Association of Counties)]: Thank you. Please don't forget lead paint as well in housing.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow (Chair)]: Thank you. And I want to the three of you. Do believe that these states should have revenue sharing with local governments. I think the way things are set up right now really isn't fair. And we had a lot of conversations with other government officials earlier today. And some talked about the snow, the big five mayors, the big five plus two mayors who talked about snow and the cost of snow removal. You three different, basically, political subdivisions. You have more cities and your towns and villages and your counties. I would imagine that each of those political subdivisions has its own set of pipes or water pipes, are they all part of the county? Or is this very statewide?

[Stephen J. Acquario (Executive Director, NYS Association of Counties)]: Very statewide, mostly town.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow (Chair)]: Because mostly, you saw a small town. Then So, know what I a county know what a city is. I have no idea what a town is. A town can have 60 people or 600,000 people, and it just doesn't make sense to me.

[Chris Koetzle (Executive Director, Association of Towns of the State of New York)]: I'm going to come and see you, Assemblyman. We go from 800000 Hempstead to 30 in Red Hook.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow (Chair)]: Okay, in towns, right?

[Chris Koetzle (Executive Director, Association of Towns of the State of New York)]: 30. 30 people.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow (Chair)]: Yeah. So it doesn't make sense to me. But anyway SPEAKER White House. I want to thank you all for your testimony today. And you've been most informative. I'm pretty sure that we, in will try to get revenue sharing to the counties. But I'm also pretty sure that we, in this this dais, will fail in doing that because the governors every governor, not just the current governor, but past governors, I imagine future governors, aren't going to want to do that. They want to keep it as close knit as they can. But that doesn't mean that we shouldn't try to do it. And oh, Chris, did you mention that you weren't in favor of the governor's proposal for CCAR?

[Chris Koetzle (Executive Director, Association of Towns of the State of New York)]: No, we are in favor. We have some concerns to make sure that scoping, I'm sorry, the shot clock starts after the scoping is agreed upon because really, it's not the local governments, it's the developers who are creating the issue because they don't agree on the scoping questions to start the EIS or they're not answering the questions in the EIS. And so when they come back without answering the questions, then we have to go back and say, no, you've got to go back and answer this question. They are their own worst enemies in So that we have to make sure that the shot clock is fair to towns. And we have to make sure that as we move things out of type one into type two, towns don't lose their ability to have site plan control over things like traffic and lighting pollution, which would move into type two. And if a town doesn't have site plan in their local code, they have no control over that. G. They have

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow (Chair)]: no control. All righty. Got it. Thank you. G. Thank all.

[Stephen J. Acquario (Executive Director, NYS Association of Counties)]: G. Thank you

[Mayor Sharon Owens (Syracuse)]: very much.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow (Chair)]: R. Now, going to call panel D, New York State Election Commissioners Association, Dustin Carney. Fair elections for New York, Karen Wharton. League of Women Voters, Erica Schmidtka. The Brennan Center for Justice at NYU School of Law, Mariama Pino, Common Cause of New York, Susan Werner, and the New York State Census Partnership Immigration Research Institute, Shimil Beephan. Ladies and gentlemen, we'll start I guess we'll start from my left, your right, you want to start from your left, my right? Don't jump in. It will at once now. Go on. Okay.

[Senator Liz Krueger (Chair, Senate Finance)]: Okay.

[Mayor Malik Evans (Rochester)]: We got it.

[Shamir Settle (Immigration Research Initiative / NYS Census Partnership)]: Members of this committee. My name is Shamir Settle, and I really appreciate the opportunity to speak with you all tonight. I'm a policy analyst with the Immigration Research Initiative, and I'm here on behalf of the New York State Census Partnership. New York is projected to lose two or more congressional districts after the 2030 census. Now if our population truly declines, that's just democracy. But if we lose representation simply because people weren't counted, well, that's a failure that we can prevent. In 2020, New York lost a congressional seat by just 89 people. The 2030 census is already underway, and the first major step is counting addresses. This work happens long before community outreach begins, and it's essential to making sure every housing unit, and therefore every person, shows up in the final numbers. We support governor Hochul's proposal to include at least $3,000,000 in the state budget for census preparation and to establish a census support office. The funding will help local governments get ready for the local update of census addresses or LUCA, which is the only chance communities have to correct the Census Bureau's address list before accounting begins. But we also need to go further. This is why we strongly support senator Solages and senator Cooney's bill to invest 15,000,000 to create a a state census assistance office and establish a New York Counts Commission of experienced census experts. Finally, the state cannot do this alone. Community based organizations, nonprofits, academics, and trusted messengers are essential for reaching New Yorkers who are hardest to count, especially in today's political climate. Local Luca efforts need funding. And without those resources, people will be missed. This year's budget should include funding for local LUCA efforts to ensure that all New Yorkers are fully counted and fairly represented. The decennial census is a marathon, not a sprint. Thanks so much.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow (Chair)]: Thank you.

[Speaker 4]: All right.

[Erica Smitka (Executive Director, League of Women Voters of New York State)]: Thank you for the opportunity to testify this evening. My name is Erica Smitka. I'm executive director of the League of Women Voters of New York State. The league appreciates that the executive budget adequately funds the state board of elections, and we strongly urge the legislature to maintain its funding. In the current political climate, securing and strengthening elections at the local level has never been more critical. In New York State, the Department of Justice filed the lawsuit against our state board. There have been demands for sensitive voter data, an increase in mis and disinformation, and declining federal support for election security, all while our our local election officials are overworked and under resourced. Just yesterday, the federal government requested documentation from the Ulster County Board of Elections. This is no longer just about ensuring local boards can run our elections, but they must also be able to push back against harmful national rhetoric and attempted interference. Our election system is strong precisely because it is decentralized, and preserving that strength requires robust investment in state and local boards of elections. We urge the legislature to establish a dedicated funding stream of 35,000,000 to county boards so they can effectively and securely administer the twenty twenty six elections. To further support county boards and election administration, one of the clear actions New York needs to take is to ensure that all eligible voters have access to the ballot. That is simply not the case for New Yorkers detained in jails. These individuals have been able to vote for the past fifty years, but why is it that we still see sheriffs being the deciding factor between access to the franchise? We ask you we ask that you pass the Democracy During Detention Act guaranteeing access to the ballot and allocate 500,000 in your one house budgets for jail based voting. Furthermore, the league urges the Senate and Assembly to include legislation to target election disinformation and AI interference while supporting civic organizations and protecting First Amendment rights. We ask that legislation is enacted to protect poll sites from civil immigration enforcement so that all voters are able to cast their ballots free from intimidation. Finally, we are horrified by federal immigration enforcement operations that deliberately infringe upon constitutional rights and ask that the Senate and Assembly include civil rights legislation to protect all New Yorkers from actions taken by officials at the local, state, and national level. The use of intimidation, surveillance, and deadly force against lawful individuals is not public safety. It's repression. Democracy cannot endure when its government uses violence to silence, dissent, and evade accountability. Thank you.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow (Chair)]: Thank you.

[Marina Pino (Brennan Center for Justice, NYU School of Law)]: Good evening Chairs Pretlow and Kruger, ranking members and members of the legislature. My name is Marina Pino, and I'm an attorney at the Brennan Center. Thank you for this opportunity to testify in support of funding to safeguard New York's elections and the officials who run them. We have seen serious threats to our democracy in this last year, from steep cuts in federal support for elections to attempts of external interference in them. Last year, despite being an odd year, we saw record high fundraising in other states from mega donors and outside spenders. Your leadership is more important than ever to protect New York's elections. We commend this body for passing some of the boldest pro voter reforms in the nation. You have delivered a premier public financing program, And you have restored legal protections against race based voter discrimination. I'd

[Mayor Sharon Owens (Syracuse)]: like

[Marina Pino (Brennan Center for Justice, NYU School of Law)]: to underscore why your commitment to these reforms remains vital. The Brennan Center's analysis of the public financing program's first cycle shows that constituent focused campaign financing can succeed. In 2024, we saw legislative candidates expand their reliance on constituents making modest donations. Those donations went from barely 5% of overall funding in recent cycles, to 45% when including matching funds. At the same time, the share of funding from wealthy individuals and entities like corporations decreased sharply. This shift occurred across New York. Candidates of all political stripes from most legislative districts opted in, and small donors in their districts gave more than twice as much when compared to previous cycles. Full funding will ensure that the program remains a strong alternative to big money in elections. We strongly support the executive budget's appropriation of $116,100,000 This funding covers administrative needs to support enhanced safeguards to protect taxpayer dollars, and matching funds for this year's elections. We also urge you to provide more resources to boards of elections, so that they can confront any threats that undermine our elections. With the federal government cutting such support, local boards are counting on you to help fill the gaps, from upgrading equipment to staffing poll sites to strengthening security protocols. This body must also support the state's transformative voting reforms. That includes the historic John R. Lewis Voting Rights Act of New York. The final budget must include $5,000,000 for enforcing the law, as well as the voting and elections database to support it. We urge you to fund the long overdue implementation of automatic voter registration as well. Lastly, we call on the legislature to prioritize other bold reforms in this moment, including legislation that would allow New Yorkers to sue federal officials who violate their constitutional rights, and prohibit the deliberate spread of deepfakes that suppress voting. Thank you for your continued efforts to empower more eligible voters. Thank you.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow (Chair)]: Thank you.

[Karen Wharton (Fair Elections for New York)]: Chairpersons Kruger and Brett Lowe, ranking members of the New York State Senate and Assembly, thank you so much for the opportunity to testify here tonight. I'm here to urge you to fully fund the New York State Public Campaign Finance Program in this year's one house budgets, consistent with the Public Campaign Finance Board's request of $116,100,000 That's $100,000,000 for matching funds and $16,100,000 for administration. The program for state legislative candidates was successful in 2024 with clear, measurable results. More than 300 legislative candidates signed up, and they signed up from both parties, representing the vast majority of candidates on the ballot. And nearly 200 candidates qualified for public funds. Over 50,000 New Yorkers made small dollar in district contributions, many engaging as donors in the state election for the first time. Meanwhile, the number of all other individual contributors, including entities like super PACs and corporations, decreased by about a quarter from past years. Now, from a racial justice perspective, this matters. For decades, candidates from black, Latino, Asian, immigrant, and working class communities have faced structural barriers rooted in unequal access to wealth and political donor networks. The public campaign finance program helps level that playing field by valuing community support over personal wealth. In 2024, more candidates from historically underrepresented communities were able to compete on more equal footing because they had strong local support, not because they had access to big money. Participation was truly statewide, spanning urban, suburban, and rural districts across New York. Even in races with high levels of outside spending, publicly financed candidates were able to reach voters and often win. Looking ahead, the program will expand to statewide candidates for the first time in June. And participation to date is strong. This makes full funding now a matter of responsible fiscal planning. Fully funding the program is the prudent thing to do. And that is why tonight I'm urging you to do just that by meeting the board's request. Thank you so much.

[Mayor Mike Spano (Yonkers)]: Thank you. I am an

[Dustin Czarny (NYS Election Commissioners Association)]: elections commissioner from Syracuse, New York, Onondaga County. I also happen to be the Democratic caucus chair of the New York State Elections Commissioner Association. But today, I'm representing the entire association in our bipartisan request of $35,000,000 in aid to locality funding that will go directly to the county boards to be able to administer the twenty twenty six election. The twenty twenty six election presents a lot of interesting challenges and hurdles that we have to overcome. 2025 marked the end of an era. It's the beginning of moving a lot of our town and county offices to federal years and in even year with the even year election realignment bill. This is a transfer or transformative bill that I believe will increase turnout in many of these local elections. However, it does present obstacles for a ministry board of elections in our administrations. Many of our boards are going to be looking at longer ballots, double sided ballots, more equipment, and also more need for public information and personnel on the ground in this twenty twenty six election. This is an unanticipated burden for our county budgets that passed our budgets back in September. And since then, we have seen incredible evidence that the twenty twenty six election is going to act more like a presidential election than a normal midterm election. While that is great for voters and great for democracy as well, if we do not have a nimble funding source to be able to meet the needs of our voters, then we will be doing them a disservice. So I believe that New York has a role in funding our elections. New York is actually one of the few states that doesn't have a dedicated funding stream to elections every year. Every year, we have to come here and ask you, find people for it. And I enjoy spending my time with you. But we should also, in future years, look towards an annual funding amount, which will allow for long term planning and also be more efficient for the local county boards and New York State as a whole. The governor's budget does a lot. It fully funds the state board of elections. It reappropriates all the grants that we need. It also provides a postal grant, which was promised from the time we started paying for the early vote by mail and vote by mail ballots. But it's always the legislator's burden to add on this aid to localities, and that is what I'm asking you to do today. Thank you very much. I'm happy to take your questions.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow (Chair)]: Thank you. Assemblywoman Solages.

[Assemblymember Michaelle C. Solages (Chair, Assembly Local Governments)]: I want to thank you all for being real troopers today and still giving us great testimony so that we can represent and provide for New Yorkers. I want to start off with the evening year elections. Being from Nassau County, I do have a concern that with all the elections, or most of the elections consolidated, that voters may get confused. And it's important that we educate the voters that this is happening. And so how much do you recommend for this education or additional funding source amount?

[Dustin Czarny (NYS Election Commissioners Association)]: So I believe the aid to localities funding that we're recommending of $35,000,000 that will be spread out to counties based on their voter registration, which is what the state board usually does, will help cover that. Different counties have different needs. Some counties have public information budgets. Others do not. And they may be able to use this grant money to do so. So our recommendation is the $35,000,000 aid to localities with flexible spending to allow the counties to choose their needs.

[Assemblymember Michaelle C. Solages (Chair, Assembly Local Governments)]: And you believe that's enough that we can, you know, run this election? Because, you know, it's always hard the first time, Yeah. You

[Dustin Czarny (NYS Election Commissioners Association)]: I'll always take more. But, you know, it is a significant increase in what this body has done in the past. It was 2,000,000 in 2025, 10,000,000 in 2024. So it's a significant asset we're making. We understand the burden of that ass in tight times, but we do believe that we can use every penny that we get and we'll use that $35,000,000

[Assemblymember Michaelle C. Solages (Chair, Assembly Local Governments)]: Thank you. I want to move to the census. So throughout the day, witnesses have testified of the importance of additional funding, revenue sharing. And I believe one way to ensure that is to have an accurate count. And so we do have legislation creating an office, and we were excited to see that there was an investment made by the governor. And so I think we have to be in the realm of making sure that we plan so that we can count everyone in New York State so we can protect our congressional seats and protect the monies that are coming to the state. So what lessons from the last census should inform state investment in local infrastructure and outreach?

[Shamir Settle (Immigration Research Initiative / NYS Census Partnership)]: Thanks so much. I think the lesson the biggest lesson is you got to get in the game early. We saw that from California and a handful of other states. And the sooner we make those investments, the better the return will be. We pushed hard when we were part of the Fiscal Policy Institute to get CBOs funded the last go around. That report came out in 2018, and the funding, as you all know, probably didn't end up getting dispersed until the census had already begun. And at that point, you're already behind.

[Assemblymember Michaelle C. Solages (Chair, Assembly Local Governments)]: It's so important this year that we make that investment. So thank you, everyone, for your testimony.

[Senator Liz Krueger (Chair, Senate Finance)]: Gonzalez, our elections chair.

[Senator Kristen Gonzalez]: Thank you so much, and good evening. It is so good to see you all again. I have many questions, but not a ton of time, so I'm just going to jump into it. In your testimony, multiple of you, or many of you, have mentioned the threat of artificial intelligence and synthetic media to our elections. This year in the executive budget, there is language to limit the use of AI in political communications, including a ninety day ban, which builds off the work we've done together in the previous years to pass bills like the New York Fair Act, creating a standard for deceptive media. So I just wanted to hear your response to that language to make sure we're doing everything we can in this area. Thank you.

[Marina Pino (Brennan Center for Justice, NYU School of Law)]: I'm happy to jump in. Thank you, Senator. And really, you for being such a leader on this important issue. You know, it was really great to see the governor start off this budget cycle showing that she supports continued efforts to address this increasing concern on AI and deceptive media. You know, as my team has underscored in our AI reports from last year, there needs to be increased transparency and increased transparency mechanisms to encompass this growing problem, right, that we have on AI created and manipulated election content. So in the governor's proposal, that includes content providence. That's a really important start. We are in a moment right now in our democracy where we are seeing this AI created content really targeting voter suppression efforts. That is something that needs to be tackled head on in terms of the deepfakes that are coming out, especially very close to an election cycle, that again get to the heart of this issue, where we are seeing these efforts to suppress votes. We're seeing these realistic but entirely fabricated images and videos that are showing things like mayhem at the polls or malfunctions with voting technology. That's something that we would want to see added in this moment for our democracy.

[Senator Kristen Gonzalez]: Absolutely. On that note, we also know it's not just AI and deepfakes or deceptive media, but there is the threat of AI and the use of cybersecurity and the threat landscape evolving rapidly. Many of you also joined our Election Cybersecurity event. I want to say thank you so much again for joining in December. Perhaps this is a good question for you, Justin. What are we doing to support our local boards? Is there anything else we could be doing to support boards with cybersecurity?

[Dustin Czarny (NYS Election Commissioners Association)]: Well, one of the tragic events over the last several years is the lack of federal funding in cybersecurity. It has all but disappeared. We used to have a robust security grant from the federal government. It is now nothing. And it is going to be up to New York State to be able to provide that money for us for the foreseeable future.

[Senator Kristen Gonzalez]: Right, which would play into why we need to support and fund our local boards with a consistent line item.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow (Chair)]: Thank Assemblywoman Walker.

[Erica Smitka (Executive Director, League of Women Voters of New York State)]: It's hard.

[Assemblymember Latrice Walker]: Okay, here we are. Thank you so much for your testimony this evening. So one of the other article seven proposals would impact

[Mayor Dorcey Applyrs (Albany)]: voter

[Assemblymember Latrice Walker]: intimidation, deception, or obstruction, and it includes establishing a felony and or misdemeanor penalties for folk who are found in file found in violation of that. Have there been significant instances of voter intimidation, obstruction, or deception in recent elections? And if so, how have these perpetrators been held accountable for these actions in your opinion? Also, law provides remedies for violations of the prohibition against voter intimidation, deception, or obstruction. That includes appropriate remedies that are tailored to the remedy and or the violation in civil damages, including nominal and compensatory as well as punitive damages. Are criminal penalties necessary? So first question is, have this happened? Have perpetrators been held accountable? And are criminal penalties necessary?

[Dustin Czarny (NYS Election Commissioners Association)]: I guess I haven't been made aware of widespread incidents of this happening. But even one incident is too many for this to happen. And increased penalties is probably the best way to prevent them in the future. Criminal penalties for there's nothing more sacred than our right to vote. And there's nothing worse than interfering with somebody else's right to vote. There is no place for voter suppression or voter intimidation at our polls. And we take a pretty hard line at the boards when we hear about it. We will call the police. We will escort people out of the polling places whenever possible. But having that back end support would be great.

[Erica Smitka (Executive Director, League of Women Voters of New York State)]: Also just say that in recent years, instances. We've seen, text messages go out to voters across the state with incorrect poll site information, seen, robocalls with false claims about mail in voting, and AI chatbots providing incorrect information on voting deadlines. This is a very real issue and a very real issue here in New York State. We would, however, encourage the legislature, to ensure that there are protections for groups like civic education groups, like the League, in doing this work and that First Amendment rights are protected. And that's more so related to mis and disinformation and less to AI.

[Assemblymember Latrice Walker]: Okay. Thank you. And so last year, I just had a question about, ballot drop boxes. Do you know how many localities have actually purchased and utilized these drop boxes, and are voters made aware of their locations?

[Dustin Czarny (NYS Election Commissioners Association)]: I'll speak to that. There's not a lot of county boards that are taking up that issue. It is a voluntary thing, and there isn't a lot of agreement from both sides of the of the board to do that. We do have ballot drop boxes at every polling place because that is mandated and every early voting place.

[Assemblymember Latrice Walker]: Thank you. That was good.

[Senator Liz Krueger (Chair, Senate Finance)]: Senator Ryan.

[Senator (last name Ryan), Chair, Senate Cities Committee]: Good evening. First and foremost, I want to say thank you again for hanging in. Secondly, I want to say thank you for your leadership on the misinformation, the disinformation on the AI. Think this is so important, the deepfakes. Unfortunately, we're actually having this conversation here, which we shouldn't be having, but, you know, we really, really, really need to get in the weeds with policy and laws that to deter that. Thank you for that. And I and Commissioner Zarny, I was unaware of the cybersecurity grants that have gone away. That's is kind of as equally troubling. And I'd be interested to know what the how much of the grant money, how much dollars we lost, what it was going for, and how much the state will have to actually then pitch in to offset that. And I think that's a that we can that's another conversation, I think, if you don't mind. Because I do have one question. You know, the executive budget includes $1,000,000 in appropriations and $3,400,000 in reappropriation authority for federal HAVA activities. So how would those funds be used by the State Board of Actions?

[Dustin Czarny (NYS Election Commissioners Association)]: So those are reappropriation grants. This is money that is left over from the original HAVA grant. And this is money that is used for education. A lot of us use that money for our poll worker classes and our poll worker training, but also upgrading equipment from time to time. Most of that is gone, dollars 1,000,000, dollars 3,400,000.0. It's not a lot of money when you're talking about 57 boards of elections. That's been around for quite some time. And there's very few counties that actually have access to those funds.

[Karen Wharton (Fair Elections for New York)]: G.

[Senator (last name Ryan), Chair, Senate Cities Committee]: K. Well, haven't so with regarding funds, what about staffing? Are we short? I mean, are there a board of elections that are out there that are struggling with their staffing? And if so, what

[Dustin Czarny (NYS Election Commissioners Association)]: Every board is struggling with staffing. It's not just struggling with not having enough staffing from their county boards, but struggling in keeping people in a field that has become even more tense and

[Mayor Mike Spano (Yonkers)]: a

[Dustin Czarny (NYS Election Commissioners Association)]: lot of outside interference in us. We are losing people. We are losing commissioners. There's a lot of institutional knowledge that is leaving the field. And we have several different things in our legislative priorities that would help us retain commissioners, such as four year terms and full time commissioners for those counties that don't have them. And I hope that the Senate and Assembly will look at those bills.

[Senator (last name Ryan), Chair, Senate Cities Committee]: I think we passed one. So I think we're on track. Think

[Stephen J. Acquario (Executive Director, NYS Association of Counties)]: you G. Used to

[Dustin Czarny (NYS Election Commissioners Association)]: You passed the mandated training Okay. That's a good one. G.

[Senator (last name Ryan), Chair, Senate Cities Committee]: O. I appreciate that. And again, really looking forward to the AI. We have to stop the misinformation, the disinformation. And I agree with you, the census. We need to get into this game. We need to get in it early. And we need to do a really, really, really good job on fund it. Thank you.

[Assemblymember Steve Otis]: Otis. Thank you very much, and thank you all for your testimony. Different little silos, all very valuable. Erica, though, I want to talk to you about something you raised. And thank you for raising it. And that is the sanctity of our polling places on election day related to federal forces. Could you talk a little more about that? Because this is a concern that has been sort of signaled many months ago, and then in the last few days, even made more apparent what should we be doing to stop it. I do have a proposal. We have a 100 foot rule for electioneering. Maybe we need a one mile rule all around polling places for federal agents without a warrant. So your comments.

[Erica Smitka (Executive Director, League of Women Voters of New York State)]: Well, we wouldn't oppose one mile. You know, this is becoming more and more of an issue. We're seeing, as you said, increased threats from our federal government. And, you know, if the claim is that we are seeing non citizens voting, we know from several research studies that have been done time and time again that this just is not happening. It's not happening at a significant level. But what we do know is that the presence of law enforcement officers, immigration officers at poll sites is a has a chilling effect on participation in our democracy, especially for folks who may be, for example, newly naturalized citizens. You know, New York State already has enough trouble getting folks out to the polls. The last thing we need is, is something or someone at the polls intimidating voters. So there are, you know, a number of state and and federal laws that, look at protections, for the polls. And so I won't get into the details there, but this is certainly an issue we're looking at for 2026.

[Assemblymember Steve Otis]: Well, thank you for raising it. I think it is a real threat for 2026. Thank you.

[Senator Liz Krueger (Chair, Senate Finance)]: Senator Martinez.

[Senator Monica R. Martinez (Chair, Senate Local Government)]: Thank you, and good evening.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow (Chair)]: We're done

[Senator Monica R. Martinez (Chair, Senate Local Government)]: over here. Just a quick question. And this is what just what I hear from my locals. The propositions on the back of the ballots, right? We talk about funding. We talk about education. But the wording on some of these props, voters do not understand. Right? You're you're explaining one you know, they're writing who is writing these proposition language? And how can we simplify it?

[Dustin Czarny (NYS Election Commissioners Association)]: I believe there was some legislation that addressed this that brought it down to, what was it, eighth grade reading level. Unfortunately, these propositions are usually written by the governments that are proposing the propositions, whether it's the town, city, or your bodies as well. And then they go to the state board for multi county jurisdictions. So it is something that needs to be addressed. It is something we need to do better about telling people to flip the ballot. I know in my county, we train the inspectors to hand them the ballot the backside up so they will at least see the propositions and not forget to vote on them. And with the even year bill, we may see some of our elections wrap around to the back. So that may actually help getting people to vote on it. But the language issue is a barrier, and we need to do better about it.

[Senator Monica R. Martinez (Chair, Senate Local Government)]: And I don't even think it's the fact that it's an eighth grade reading level. It's just the way it's worded. It's not even the level. It is confusing to individuals the way it is formatted at times. And at times, I feel it's being done on purpose to sway people in a different way without it actually being what the intended purpose of that referendum is.

[Erica Smitka (Executive Director, League of Women Voters of New York State)]: I'll just jump in and say that's absolutely a problem. The plain language bill did work to to fix some of that. There are certainly additional, you know, changes that that could be made there. But I wanna reemphasize why this is, again, a a key reason for funding our county boards of elections. They are on the front lines of doing this election education and voter education for the folks in their community. And being able to provide education on ballot measures and what they could mean for that community are it's imperative. And so that's why this funding would be another reason why it's critical.

[Senator Monica R. Martinez (Chair, Senate Local Government)]: Thank you. Did you hear something to say?

[Karen Wharton (Fair Elections for New York)]: So, to add to what my colleagues here have said, I think some of these issues that New Yorkers are being asked to vote on are complex. And it's very difficult to distill it in, you know, a little paragraph, which is why, to reiterate, civic education engagement is so valuable. So that we can then, like, spend an hour explaining what this one thing actually means.

[Senator Monica R. Martinez (Chair, Senate Local Government)]: Thank you. Thank you.

[Senator Liz Krueger (Chair, Senate Finance)]: I think I'm the last senator. And I think the assembly is completed. Oh, you? Hello. Excuse me.

[Speaker 4]: No, I didn't. You know,

[Senator Liz Krueger (Chair, Senate Finance)]: it's just another day in our lives for us.

[Speaker 4]: Since you're

[Senator Liz Krueger (Chair, Senate Finance)]: the SANT PERCEO.

[Senator Roxanne J. Persaud]: Liz, Liz, Liz. Good evening. Thank you. Thank you all for being here and and sticking it out. I just wanna touch on something. You talked about, you know, the voters are nervous going to the polls because of the possibility that law enforcement is there and, you know, they're they're just nervous. But particularly in New York City, the polling sites, there are law enforcement within the the site. So do you think with everything that's happening now, people are really going to be afraid to go into polling site? And what should we do to alleviate their fears, letting them know that the the officers who are there are not there as agents of ICE, etcetera.

[Dustin Czarny (NYS Election Commissioners Association)]: MR. So, you know, I'm not from New York City. I can tell you that officers inside the polls are a rarity outside of New York City. In fact, in many communities, it's frowned upon. Even though we know those officers, they're part of

[Mayor Mike Spano (Yonkers)]: our

[Dustin Czarny (NYS Election Commissioners Association)]: community, they're there to protect the inspectors and voters. But it is seen as a suppression. And many people will fear to go to the polls even if it is a regular officer, and especially in these times. And it's not just voters that are afraid. It's inspectors as well.

[Senator Roxanne J. Persaud]: Mhmm.

[Dustin Czarny (NYS Election Commissioners Association)]: We hear this from our polling inspectors that some of them are thinking about taking this year off because of the threats that suddenly Menotis talked about. So this is something that's very worrisome to boards of elections this year.

[Senator Roxanne J. Persaud]: Yeah. We have to figure something out because we do not want the number of persons coming out to vote to be decreased. We already have that problem. I wanted to touch on something about the census. We know that the census education is important. What are we going to do to ensure that the organizations that will receive funding to do vote census education in communities are actually going to be doing it and being doing this, you know, a serious push. We need to ensure that the education gets into every level of it, of schooling, the senior centers, etcetera. But some of the organizations that were funded, I saw them, They were not doing what they were funded for. How do we ensure that organizations that will receive funding are actually going to do census outreach and education?

[Shamir Settle (Immigration Research Initiative / NYS Census Partnership)]: Thanks so much for that question. And I think that what we saw in 2020 was really unique because of the, you know, the state of the world at that point. It was in the middle of the pandemic, and it was a really difficult time to do something like knock on a person's door and ask how many people live in that place be because of all of the moving and and whatnot. But, you know, the organizations are really the trusted boots on the ground, and we all know that this is gonna be an uphill battle. The sense of public trust is being eroded, and we can hear that. And when it comes to elections, everything to the census. So I think building trust and leaning on the community partners that are actually having these, these relationships in communities are gonna be so critical and not just waiting until the last minute, but, you know, staying connected and emphasizing the importance of outreach in hard to count neighborhoods is gonna be really critical.

[Senator Roxanne J. Persaud]: Thank you all.

[Senator Liz Krueger (Chair, Senate Finance)]: Thank you. Okay. Now I think I'm the last senator. And it's good because, actually, Roxanne asked the one question I thought I'd get in. So thank you. So now it gives me another one. All right. So we only have a few months left in the legislature before the twenty six elections. And I think you've already heard it. Everybody's panicked. What's going to happen? Are we going to have a federal government that tries to stop us from having twenty twenty six elections? So what's the number one thing you all think we can do in the legislature to help protect ourselves from making sure that we can have normal legal elections in November 26?

[Dustin Czarny (NYS Election Commissioners Association)]: I'm not gonna keep harping on funding. I've done that several times. But I will say that what we can do is pass a legislation that stressed the importance of voting and protecting the citizens' right to vote, whether it's the legislation that Assemblywoman Walker talked about or further legislation that empowers us at the polls to protect the voters when they go, that would be something that would be a big benefit for boards of elections.

[Senator Liz Krueger (Chair, Senate Finance)]: Thank you. Anyone else?

[Erica Smitka (Executive Director, League of Women Voters of New York State)]: I will harp on the funding. And I will say robust funding for the folks who are the boots on the ground, our local boards of elections and the people that staff them.

[Marina Pino (Brennan Center for Justice, NYU School of Law)]: And if I can also add, but to be very specific on the funding for election security, having sound election security is the foundation for all the amazing reforms that the legislature has passed. You all have done an incredible job, especially over the last five, six years, passing these key reforms. Ensuring that local boards and the state board are equipped to ensure that election security remains sound is essential. And lastly, of course, to reiterate, states are running elections and to keep reiterating that point.

[Senator Liz Krueger (Chair, Senate Finance)]: And they're very good answers because this is a budget hearing. So I appreciate that. Did I cut anyone off in fifty eight seconds left?

[Dustin Czarny (NYS Election Commissioners Association)]: Well, if I can get one more thing in.

[Senator Liz Krueger (Chair, Senate Finance)]: Sure.

[Dustin Czarny (NYS Election Commissioners Association)]: We need to stress the bipartisan nature of our boards. We have equal staffing and equal funding from both sides and that is a benefit to us. The paper ballots that we have in New York is a benefit to us. It's something to assure voters that these wild stories that they hear about voter fraud are not true, and we can prove it because we have the people there and the paper in hand to prove it.

[Senator Liz Krueger (Chair, Senate Finance)]: Thank you. I also would throw in on the education about the importance of the census. That's also bipartisan. When we lose congressional seats for New York, as apparently we do, we all suffer. It doesn't matter what party you're in. We all lose power in Washington where the money comes from based on numbers. I think that it's particularly important to remember all of these issues relate to all of us.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow (Chair)]: Thank you, Senator. And thank you, ladies This and would conclude this section of the hearing. I'll just have just a quick comment. I have different feelings on public financing, because I don't think that public financing has a chance against Citizens United. And that's really what we're fighting, and that's where the problems are. So I just see that I can find other ways to spend money other than I mean, the net effect was one person lost last year in the legislative races because of public financing. And 140 some million dollars was spent. So I don't know if that was really worth our time and effort. But that's just my personal feeling, and I know you're going to disagree with me. And 300 people participated, that's great. But I know of people's I know many brother in laws that got jobs and consultants convinced hopeless candidates to run for office and help them raise money and the consultants got money and yes, Madam Walker. Oh, I said a I said I had comments. I don't have any questions. I don't have any questions. Just a comment.

[Karen Wharton (Fair Elections for New York)]: I get it. Okay, here we go. May I respond?

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow (Chair)]: Yes, of course you can.

[Karen Wharton (Fair Elections for New York)]: So, I agree with you in the sense that public campaign finance program, a matching funds program, is not the answer to Citizens United. It is not the thing that will overthrow Citizens United. It is simply a tool in our toolbox. And we're working on other legislation. And I'll be happy to stop by your office talk do. About of essentially support our very robust. And in fact, it's one of the it is the as you know, probably know, the largest public campaign finance program in the country. And we receive calls from all over the nation inquiring about our state finance our program. It is something that I'm very proud of. And I would I think that you should be proud of it, as well. It may not feel that way right now, but it is it is actually it is something that others are looking to emulate. But again, we are working on other legislation because it is not just one thing that will overthrow Citizens United. Several things. We have to come at the problem from different angles.

[Senator Liz Krueger (Chair, Senate Finance)]: Thank you.

[Assemblymember J. Gary Pretlow (Chair)]: Thank you. All right. Well, everyone, this ends this hearing. And I thank you all for your participation. And if you have nothing to do tomorrow, public protection at 09:30. We'll be here bright and early. Senator Kruger will lead that one tomorrow. And we're going to have a great time. Good night, everybody.

[Senator Liz Krueger (Chair, Senate Finance)]: Thank you. Thank you for being here, everyone.