New York State SmartTranscripts:

[Senator Andrew Gounardes (Chair)]: Live. Alright. Good afternoon, Today is Wednesday, May 28, and this will be the final meeting, likely final meeting of the state senate committee on budgeted revenue for this year. I'm senator Andrew Gounardes joined here by senator Comrie, senator Weber, and senator Rhoads. We have a 21 bill agenda today. We've also received voting sheets from our members who are not present. So we do have a forum and we will get right into it. First bill is s five eighty seven by senator Martins.

[Committee Clerk (unnamed)]: An act to amend the tax law in relation to establishing a tax deduction for cash attempts received.

[Senator Andrew Gounardes (Chair)]: Any discussion on the bill? If I could briefly comment on the bill.

[Senator Steven D. Rhoads]: This bill is incredibly important since we're always worried about affordability in the state of New York and particularly affordability for young people to continue to remain in the state of New York, mister chairman. This would apply to people that cut our hairs, serve our meals, deliver groceries, drive ride shares, take our coffee orders. These employees tend to be between the ages of 20 and 34 years of age for the most part. And by eliminating tip wages from income, it allows them from income tax purposes, it allows them to keep more of their hard earned money and provides an opportunity for them to be able to remain here in the state and to be in

[Senator Andrew Gounardes (Chair)]: the state of the world. Thank you. Any other questions or comments? I'll just say in response, I think actually it applies to a broader range of individuals who work on an asset based economy, not just people making their 20s and thirties, you know, you know, wait, waiters and waitresses in their fifties and sixties as well. This is an issue that's currently being discussed as part of the federal budget right now.

[Senator Leroy Comrie]: There's been

[Senator Andrew Gounardes (Chair)]: a lot of discussion on this and so, I'm going be voting no on this bill pending the outcome of the federal budget and and tax changes are, particularly because this bill references the the internal revenue code, and it seems premature to try to advance any changes to the state code that are built on the federal code while the federal code is being debated with such potentially significant changes. So we can revisit this issue, I think, next year as well. In my view, and so that for that reason, I'll be voting in the negative. Just just to retort, it's an opportunity for New York to be a leader. The way that our code is so coupled with the federal tax code, it's premature to make changes to the state code that are so predicated on the federal code right now. And so unfortunately, as much as we want to be a leader on things, if something such a significant change, I think it's more prudent to follow the lead of what happened to the federal government first, see what the landscape of the changes to the federal tax code are at that point, and then we can revisit this issue, you know, in the future. But your point is both. I appreciate it. Is there a motion to move the vote? Motion. Motion to say. Is there Okay. All in favor? Aye. Any against? Probably against without correct? What's our total? Three against? Four. And four. Okay. Bill is reported to the committee on investigations and government operations. Next bill is s eight fifty by senator Helming.

[Committee Clerk (unnamed)]: An act to amend the tax law in relation to establishing the first time homebuyer tax credit.

[Senator Andrew Gounardes (Chair)]: Any questions or comments on the bill? Please. Yeah. This

[Senator Steven D. Rhoads]: bill actually provides a a five year first time home buyer tax credit phased in. First year tax credit would be 50% of the total property taxes paid and then would phase down each year by 10% reaching zero in year six. Again, when we're talking about affordability and the ability for families to make an investment here in the state of New York, this is a perfect opportunity to be able to back up those words with action and that provides a chance

[Senator Andrew Gounardes (Chair)]: for for state of the nation. Thank you, senator. Any other questions or comments? No. Motion to make to move the bill. Is there a second? Second. I'll say a second. I'll just say before we call the vote, I agree with your comments, senator. I think this is a well intentioned bill. I happen to think as someone who went through this process myself very recently, the single biggest obstacle for people to be able to buy homes is saving money for a down payment, and, a future tax credit doesn't really help with cash in your hands, in your pockets right now to be able to save for that down payment. In neighborhoods like mine, unless you're getting someone's giving you 400 or $500,000 in your lap for that down payment, there's no way you'll be able to save even to be able to benefit from a future tax credit. So I think this initial we keep working on, keep talking about, and trying to fine tune a way to actually help make it easier for folks, particularly younger people and younger families who are trying to to buy that first home, wherever it might be, that we can help them to make it more affordable for them. So for that reason, I'm gonna be negative, but I do think this is a very well intentioned bill that we should continue to talk about this issue. Gotcha.

[Senator Steven D. Rhoads]: And let's not discount. I know in the city of New York, you you deal with some very similar circumstances on where I'm from. I'm certain where senator Weber is from. Your your your income your property taxes with your school taxes can be in excess of $20,000. Oftentimes, I can afford the mortgage. Right.

[Senator Leroy Comrie]: A young buyer can afford

[Senator Steven D. Rhoads]: the mortgage, but can't afford the property taxes. And so this is an opportunity to address that issue on the back end.

[Senator Andrew Gounardes (Chair)]: Mhmm. I agree

[Senator Steven D. Rhoads]: with you. Yeah. I'm hoping with a with a down payment is something that we should visit. Meantime, you know, let's not let the good in the enemy be perfect.

[Senator Leroy Comrie]: That's fair

[Senator Andrew Gounardes (Chair)]: point. Move this forward. So there's a motion to be made and seconded. All in favor, say aye. Aye. Any negative? Okay. Negative. And without rep, Bill is reported to the committee on local governments. Who's the public? It was 4 3. Okay. Next is thirteen eighty five by senator.

[Committee Clerk (unnamed)]: An act to amend the tax law in relation to the solar energy system equipment credit, to amend the real property tax law in relation to the solar star credit, and to amend the public service law in relation to citing major renewable energy facilities. Any discussion on the bill?

[Senator Steven D. Rhoads]: Well, again, with respect to this bill, obviously, we are trying to move towards a a greener economy and a greener state. This would incentivize people to to actually go and put solar energy systems on their homes and would increase both the cap from $5,000 to 10,000 total and increase the credit from 25% to 40% for the incidental.

[Senator Andrew Gounardes (Chair)]: That's great. You know, this is something that I know a colleague on our side of the aisle center, Harkham has been working on for quite some time. I believe this is a similar provision was in our one house this year. My concern about this bill is on the local override for the citing of renewable energy projects, and so I'm concerned that we're actually making it more difficult by allowing local governments to block energy projects moving forward with this poison pill. But otherwise, I think the merits of this bill notwithstanding that align with what we've been trying to do on our side as well. And so for that reason, I'll be voting in the negative.

[Senator Steven D. Rhoads]: Just so I understand the opposition, it's it's you're opposed to giving local control deciding those projects?

[Senator Andrew Gounardes (Chair)]: To the dual permitting requirement now. It's gonna require both state and local, which I think will make it more difficult to place these projects, which I we agree we want more of and we need more of and we need to incentivize more of, but I think the dual permitting process is actually going lead to more delay and not actually streamline what we're trying to accomplish here. Okay. Is there a motion for the bill? Motion. May, is there a second? Second. All in favor, say aye. Aye. I do. All opposed, say nay. So we are at four. Is advanced to the committee on finance. Energy. Energy. Next is s fifteen twenty seven by senator Parker.

[Committee Clerk (unnamed)]: An act to amend the tax law in relation to establishing a sales tax exemption for energy storage. Is there

[Senator Andrew Gounardes (Chair)]: any discussion on the bill? Move bill. Move the bill. Is there a second? Second. All in favor say aye. Aye. All opposed? Bill is reported to finance. That's unanimous. Next is it's s c sixteen seventy four by senator Gounardes.

[Committee Clerk (unnamed)]: Act to amend the tax law in relation to creating a tax credit for employers who reduce the education loans of their employees. Any discussion on the bill? Move to go.

[Senator Andrew Gounardes (Chair)]: Thank you. Motion is made. Is there a second?

[Senator Bill Weber (Ranking Member)]: Second. I'll second.

[Senator Andrew Gounardes (Chair)]: All in favor, say aye. Aye. Aye. Without negative. Leave a one negative. Senator Krueger, Bill advances to finance. Next is S eighteen twenty five by Senator Ashton.

[Committee Clerk (unnamed)]: An act to amend the tax law and state finance law in relation to using a portion of public safety communication surcharge to support volunteer fire department initiatives.

[Senator Andrew Gounardes (Chair)]: Any discussion on this? Volunteer fire departments, particularly

[Senator Steven D. Rhoads]: in rural areas of the state, have difficulties making their moving their budgets and continuing to provide services to their communities.

[Senator Andrew Gounardes (Chair)]: This will provide an additional source of funding. Any other discussion? No. No. I'll say we this committee advanced a very similar bill by senator Martinez in March to accomplish nearly the same thing. So I view this bill as duplicative to work with this committee has already advanced. So for that reason, I'll be voting in the negative, but motion is made to move. Is there a second? Second. Second. All in favor, aye. Aye. Any negative? Okay. Bill advances to finance. Next is s two thousand one ninety nine by senator Comrie.

[Committee Clerk (unnamed)]: An act to amend the tax law in relation to providing an exemption for tangible personal property and services sold by a

[Senator Andrew Gounardes (Chair)]: I'll make a motion. Thank you. I'll second. Second. Okay. Any any motion being seconded. All in favor say aye. Aye. Any negative or without rep? We have one negative from senator Krueger. Bill advances finance. Next is s 2,502 by senator Gounardes.

[Committee Clerk (unnamed)]: An act to amend the tax law in relation to providing for deduction of student loan interest from federal adjusted gross income. Discussion on the bill.

[Senator Andrew Gounardes (Chair)]: To the bill. Move the bill. Is there a second? Any all the vote. All in favor, aye. Aye. Any negative without a rec? Bill advances to finance. Next is s thirty three thirty by Senator Cooney.

[Committee Clerk (unnamed)]: An act to amend the tax law in relation to taxpayers and combine groups including members engaged in providing professional employer organization services.

[Senator Andrew Gounardes (Chair)]: Is there discussion on the bill? Is there a motion to move the bill? I'll move the bill. Is there a second? Senator Comrie. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any negative or without recognition?

[Senator Steven D. Rhoads]: Without recognition.

[Senator Andrew Gounardes (Chair)]: Okay. Bill is advanced to finance. Next is S3411 by Senator Comrie.

[Committee Clerk (unnamed)]: An act to amend the tax law in relation to providing tax credits for the installation of fire sprinkler systems. Is there

[Senator Andrew Gounardes (Chair)]: a discussion on the bill? Is there a motion on the bill? So moved. Is there a second? I'll second. Aye. All in favor say aye. Aye. Any negative or without rec? Bill is reported to finance. Next is S3694 by Senator Sanders.

[Committee Clerk (unnamed)]: An act to amend the tax law in relation to establishing a work

[Senator Andrew Gounardes (Chair)]: opportunity tax credit. Any discussion on the bill? Motion to make is made. Is there a second? All second. All in favor say aye. Aye. Any negative without rep? The bill is reported to finance. Next is S3856 by Senator Homan Siegel. An act to amend

[Committee Clerk (unnamed)]: the tax law in relation to the imposition of sales and compensating use taxes with respect to certain aircraft and to repeal paragraph 21 dash a of subdivision a section eleven fifteen of the tax law relating thereto. Is there

[Senator Andrew Gounardes (Chair)]: a discussion on the bill?

[Senator Leroy Comrie]: Is there a

[Senator Andrew Gounardes (Chair)]: motion on the bill? No. The bill. Senator Tommy motions, is there a second? I'll second. All in favor say aye. Aye. Any negative or without rec?

[Senator Steven D. Rhoads]: Without rec?

[Senator Bill Weber (Ranking Member)]: Not rec.

[Senator Andrew Gounardes (Chair)]: And an a. Okay. Bill is reported to finance. Next is senator is s thirty eight seventy four also by senator Homans Siegel.

[Committee Clerk (unnamed)]: An act to repeal subdivision JJ of section eleven fifteen of the tax law relating to sales and compensating use taxes imposed with respect to vessels and to repeal subdivision 13 of section eleven eighteen of the tax law relating to sales and compensating use taxes imposed with respect to vessels.

[Senator Andrew Gounardes (Chair)]: Any motion on the bill? Is there a motion to move the bill? I'll move. Is there a second?

[Senator Leroy Comrie]: Second. Senator

[Senator Andrew Gounardes (Chair)]: Comrie seconds. All in favor, say aye. Aye. Any negative or without rec? Without rec? Negative. Okay. Bill is reported to finance. Next is s thirty nine fourteen by senator martins. An act to amend

[Committee Clerk (unnamed)]: the tax law in relation to subtracting federal adjusted gross income, any overtime compensation earned by an individual.

[Senator Andrew Gounardes (Chair)]: Is there

[Senator Steven D. Rhoads]: financial needs by working overtime. We should not be charging state income taxes on the overtime pay that they earn as a means to make it more affordable for residents in New York.

[Senator Andrew Gounardes (Chair)]: Thank you, senator. Any other questions or comments?

[Senator Bill Weber (Ranking Member)]: I'll just second. Senator Rhoads said I think a lot

[Senator Andrew Gounardes (Chair)]: of people, middle class, the lower middle class, I think, would benefit mostly by this. Absolutely. Okay. Any other discussion? Move the bill. Motion to move the bill. Is there a second? I'll second. All in favor, say aye. Aye. Any negative or without rec? We have four negative votes recorded. The bill does not advance. Next is s 4,065 c by senator Parker.

[Committee Clerk (unnamed)]: An act to amend the energy law and the tax law in relation to establishing sustainable aviation fuel tax credit in New York state.

[Senator Andrew Gounardes (Chair)]: Is there a discussion on the bill? Is there a motion on the bill? No. Motion is made. Is there a second? I'll second. And all in favor say aye. Aye. Any negative or without rec? Bill is reported to finance. Next is s sixty eight seventy two by senator Henschey.

[Committee Clerk (unnamed)]: An act to amend the tax law in relation to the treatment of excess tax credits for the rehabilitation of historic artists. Any discussion on the bill?

[Senator Leroy Comrie]: Thank you, Bill.

[Senator Andrew Gounardes (Chair)]: Motion made to move it. Is there a second? I'll second. All in favor say aye. Aye. Any negative or without rep? Bill is reported to finance. It's a barn burner of the bill. Next is S7875 by Senator Gounardes.

[Committee Clerk (unnamed)]: An act to amend the tax law in relation to the sales and use tax exemption for certain transactions and precious metal bullying held for investment purposes.

[Senator Andrew Gounardes (Chair)]: Is there discussion on the bill? Motion is made. Is there a second? I'll second. All in favor, aye. Aye. Any negative or without rec? Okay. Or nay. Bill is reported to finance. Next is S7876 also by Senator Gounardes.

[Committee Clerk (unnamed)]: An act to amend the tax law in relation to the itemized deduction for gambling losses. The discussion about So in all

[Senator Bill Weber (Ranking Member)]: due respect to the chairman, I think this is a really bad idea. As you know, I'm a CPA for nearly thirty years. You're gonna have a situation where people are gonna be paying tax on money that they may not have anymore. There are situations where someone would go into a casino, they'd win 5 or $10 on a casino machine. Stupid enough, they may go

[Senator Andrew Gounardes (Chair)]: over to the roulette, but then they're all

[Senator Bill Weber (Ranking Member)]: black and end up having nothing. And they have to pay tax on the $10,000 that they won when under the current code and as we talked about, federal government allows them to write off their gambling losses after their gambling winnings, but subjected to 2%. I just think you're gonna have a situation where you're gonna leave a lot of people in the lurch. And I know yesterday, we passed the the Parkland alienation bill. We're encouraging more casinos, and we wanna encourage more people to come in and and utilize those casinos. I just see this as something that for people that are big gamblers, people that don't wanna come in and and gamble of their money, which is their right to do, which would leave them a lot of lot of them in a situation where they'll be in the lurch in terms of paying tax on money they don't have.

[Senator Andrew Gounardes (Chair)]: Thank you, Sam. It was my understanding that as part of the TCJA that was passed several years ago, the deduction for gambling losses was actually removed from the federal tax code. So we're actually an outlier as it relates to the federal tax code in this instance. And so the intent of this bill was to actually align us with what how the federal tax code treats gambling losses in the same way. And, you know, I just don't think that we should be subsidizing people who are gambling, you know, and actually incentivize them to gamble more, frankly, and then being able to, you know, cover their losses for them. So that's that was the intent. What I'm do is agree, like,

[Senator Bill Weber (Ranking Member)]: on capital gains and losses that you that you should be able to write your capital losses off against your capital gains. Is it worth the fact that it's for gambling rather than for securities?

[Senator Andrew Gounardes (Chair)]: Well, this I think is meant to align with what current what the federal tax bill currently allows which was what was changed during the TCJA passed in 2017 and signed by president Trump. So this is in alignment with that Alright. With that rationale. It's a fair question you raised. Can We take it back and just, you know, and and restudy that. But the intent of this bill was actually to align us with with what the federal income tax code was amended to seven years ago. Seven years ago? Eight years ago.

[Senator Bill Weber (Ranking Member)]: I just think it's illegal. It's illegal people.

[Senator Andrew Gounardes (Chair)]: And the thing is their biggest tax liability is obviously there's federal tax liability and they probably don't get this benefit under the federal tax code. And so we actually think that the impact on individual taxpayers here won't be as significant as the impact that they faced under the TCJA that was signed by President Trump in May 17.

[Senator Bill Weber (Ranking Member)]: But they're they state and city taxes, right? The people in the city.

[Senator Andrew Gounardes (Chair)]: It was a bigger hit in

[Committee Clerk (unnamed)]: the past. I'm sorry.

[Senator Leroy Comrie]: I don't mind if I I don't gamble, but I'm not clear on what is happening here. So you're saying if you have wins and losses before you leave the casino, everything is recorded in for tax purposes?

[Senator Andrew Gounardes (Chair)]: You have to pay tax on your winnings.

[Senator Leroy Comrie]: You have to pay tax on your winnings.

[Senator Andrew Gounardes (Chair)]: And we give you we let you write off whatever you lose

[Senator Bill Weber (Ranking Member)]: up to your wins. Right.

[Senator Steven D. Rhoads]: So This is doing away with only half the equation. K. So if you lose, you no longer get

[Senator Leroy Comrie]: to write it off. Right.

[Senator Andrew Gounardes (Chair)]: So if you win, you still have to pay taxes.

[Senator Leroy Comrie]: So So if you lose 50 ks, you still have to pay taxes.

[Senator Steven D. Rhoads]: So if you win,

[Senator Leroy Comrie]: you lose. Okay. And if you lose,

[Senator Andrew Gounardes (Chair)]: you lose. You don't pay taxes on what you lose. You just can't Offset. Offset what you lose at the the craft table by deducting it off of your of your taxes. Mhmm. But if you view gimmick so Alright.

[Senator Steven D. Rhoads]: But if you view gambling as and again, this isn't a commentary on gambling, but you said under the Connery, you know, if I walk into a casino, I'm paying the penny slots. Right. But like

[Senator Andrew Gounardes (Chair)]: that's I I never I'm not gonna have pennies any longer. I never veer. I know.

[Committee Clerk (unnamed)]: I never veer from that.

[Senator Andrew Gounardes (Chair)]: I never veer from that.

[Senator Steven D. Rhoads]: But if you consider gambling to be a source of income,

[Committee Clerk (unnamed)]: in every other area of income,

[Senator Steven D. Rhoads]: you get to write your your gains you get to write your losses off of your gains. Mhmm. Except now for this, which is why I'm in opposition. I I

[Senator Leroy Comrie]: think we need to take hopefully, we shouldn't take a it's because we voted for the alienation vote. It's the alienation the alien I wanna separate alienation and Parkland from the police for gambling because one thing had nothing to do with the other. You know, that that land was never Parkland. People just keep saying it because of the the so he could build a highway system over there, but it was never Parkland. It was Ashland. It was barren land. And it was never Parkland. So I just, you know, people keep coming up with that misnomer. I just wanna correct it. Those of you that read the gate, Grape Gatsby, that was back in the Ash area where they used to have and it was never actually pristine Parkland. Was a dump area. Dumping, swamp land. It's dumping ash. Swamp land.

[Senator Bill Weber (Ranking Member)]: Thank you. I'm just gonna check with the I had my staff pull it up. The loss is still deductible in federal. We have no losses.

[Senator Andrew Gounardes (Chair)]: We'll we'll we'll look at that. Has the bill advance beyond here. It's our understanding don't that that was changed in in 2017.

[Senator Leroy Comrie]: This bill goes to finance. Hopefully, we can pull see up all of these issues and take a look at it.

[Senator Andrew Gounardes (Chair)]: End of discussion. Any motion on the bill?

[Senator Bill Weber (Ranking Member)]: I'll second

[Senator Leroy Comrie]: it. I'll second to the comment. In the light of the fact that it will be reviewed.

[Senator Andrew Gounardes (Chair)]: Is there all in favor say aye.

[Senator Leroy Comrie]: I'm I'm in favor and I'm fact that it will be reviewed.

[Senator Andrew Gounardes (Chair)]: Any negative or without rec? Okay.

[Senator Bill Weber (Ranking Member)]: I'm in aye.

[Senator Andrew Gounardes (Chair)]: Okay. Bill is reported to finance. Next is S7878, followed by Senator Harris.

[Committee Clerk (unnamed)]: And I have to amend the tax law in relation to the imposition of sales tax on admission charges for places of engagement.

[Senator Andrew Gounardes (Chair)]: Any discussion on the bill?

[Senator Leroy Comrie]: Move to bill.

[Senator Andrew Gounardes (Chair)]: Move to state. Is there a second? I'll second. All in favor say aye. Aye. Any negative without rep? Okay. One nay. Bill is advanced Just comments on this? Yes. How can we take a look

[Senator Leroy Comrie]: at the different locations that are doing it? Because it's a non profit that's raising money for a fundraiser. We need to see if they can be exempt.

[Senator Andrew Gounardes (Chair)]: That's a good point. This is really meant to target high end tickets, you know, tickets that are $1,000 $5,000 for some of these. Depends. It's a fair question you raised about non profits and fundraising, so we'll take a look

[Senator Bill Weber (Ranking Member)]: at that.

[Senator Leroy Comrie]: Thank you.

[Senator Andrew Gounardes (Chair)]: Next is S-seven 906. That was 7,906 by Senator Gounardes.

[Committee Clerk (unnamed)]: An act to amend the tax law in relation to the college tuition personal income tax credit.

[Senator Andrew Gounardes (Chair)]: Any discussion on the motion is made. Is there a second? I'll second. All in favor say aye. Aye. Any negative or was that wrecked?

[Senator Bill Weber (Ranking Member)]: That wrecked. I'm a

[Senator Andrew Gounardes (Chair)]: nay on it. I'm just concerned that sometimes it's students that are paying for college themselves. Know, it's not necessarily the amount of that who's got to do something in United States. Well, it's it's putting the bill forward to this would impact that as well. That's that's a very valid concern. That's why we started this phase out of a million dollar threshold. So if you're a student who has $1,000,000 of income on your tax liability, you probably can't afford college, but everyone else probably can't and that's exactly the concern that we had in mind and that's why we started it through the removal at the $1,000,000 threshold. Our final bill is S 7,907 by Senator Gounardes.

[Committee Clerk (unnamed)]: An act to amend the tax law in relation to sales tax on the sale of race horses made through a

[Senator Andrew Gounardes (Chair)]: claimant basis. Discussion on the bill. Bill. Motion in made. I'll second. All in favor, say aye. Aye. Negative or without record? Second. None of the house. Two nays will be reported to finance. That concludes our meeting. Thank you everyone for the discussion. Tune in next year next time. Thank you.

[Senator Steven D. Rhoads]: For

[Senator Andrew Gounardes (Chair)]: continuations. Good job, sir.