New York State SmartTranscripts:

[Senator Pete Harckham (Chair, NYS Senate Environmental Conservation Committee)]: All right. Good morning, I am New York State Senator Pete Harkom, and welcome to the Senate standing committee on environmental conservation. We've been joined by Senators Kansan, Eric, Fitzpatrick, Senator Favey. If you don't see your Senator here, there are a lot of meetings going on. People will be coming and going, but we do have everybody's vote sheets to constitute a quorum. We are joined, as always by our amazing central staff. We have Mike, Malik, Nicole, Jose, Carissa, and from my staff, our amazing committee coordinator, Marie Kelly. Just two senators here, a couple of editorial notes. There will be just some routing changes on with certain bills that we will fill you in on. Just the mechanism of LRS, we cannot change them in the system until after the meeting, but nothing radical for sure. So we have an 11 bill active list today, and why don't we get going? Our first bill is ten fifty nine A by Senator Serrano.

[Committee Clerk (unidentified)]: An act to amend the environmental conservation law in relation to prohibiting the aerial and ground application of malafion in certain pyrethroid based insecticides. Questions, comments, concerns?

[Senator Brian Kavanagh]: Move the bill.

[Senator Pete Harckham (Chair, NYS Senate Environmental Conservation Committee)]: We have a motion, we have a second. All in favor? Aye. Aye. Any without a rec? Any nay? Alright, that bill is advanced to the counter. The next bill, fourteen sixty three by Senator Kavanaugh.

[Committee Clerk (unidentified)]: An act of any environmental conservation law in relation to establishing a mattress collection program.

[Senator Pete Harckham (Chair, NYS Senate Environmental Conservation Committee)]: And this is a bill that we have seen before. Questions, comments, concerns?

[Unidentified Senator (minority member)]: Chairman, yes, I have some questions and concerns. I'm sorry that the sponsor is not here, but I'll pose them to you. I'm concerned about the hidden costs that the structure of this program will have, and as we all know, the ultimate cost of recycling will probably be passed on through the producers to the consumers. So I would like to ask, oh and I see our sponsor has revived, so. I'm sorry. Yes, you're on the hot seat Saturday.

[Senator Pete Harckham (Chair, NYS Senate Environmental Conservation Committee)]: You're on fourteen point six right here,

[Senator Brian Kavanagh]: here, in your blanket mattress.

[Unidentified Senator (minority member)]: Senator, thank you. I want to ask if we've considered going about this program in a different way. My understanding is that four other states have a similar program and that those programs are instituting a point of sale at retail sale a fee that will allow us to have a transparent cost about what this program is going to actually cost. To say it's free to consumers, I think is, not being fully transparent because as I said as you were walking in, manufacturers, producers are going to pass this on to the consumers in one way or the other because that's the way business operates. So let's be honest about what this is costing. My other concern is that we're putting a lot of burden on an auditing system that doesn't exist right now, then we would be creating a need to track down how the costs are being compiled. If we are not charging an upfront fee, now you're going to company that now is gonna have to produce records to show their sales, and I'm concerned there's been some opposition from the International Sleep Product Association, from the American Chemistry Council, the New York State Chemistry Council, we have some opposition there. And I'm wondering have you had any discussions with those organizations about how we might tweak our program? Because of course the other concern, you don't mind me saying, is that if we have neighboring states that have a different program, we're gonna have some border competition, we're gonna have some other issues that are going to be created because our neighboring states are doing it differently.

[Senator Brian Kavanagh]: Great, thank you for all that. First of just on the honesty aspect, is no disputing that it costs money to collect and properly dispose of mattresses. Currently, virtually all that cost is borne by taxpayers because mattresses are landfilled, landfill costs money to run. Very often at the beginning of any month, you'll see mattresses left on the curbside at some of these apartments. So this is a product that is already costing a great deal of money to New Yorkers. EPR, which is not a new model in New York, our DC has of models by which as a general matter in kind of modern recent EPR programs. We have not set a specific point of sale fee and the reason for that is that it's economically efficient. If the government sets the price for a service and allows it to be a fixed price regardless of the efficiency of the program, people will charge that fee, business will either spend that fee or keep the fee. The idea here is that the businesses that make and distribute mattresses are in the best position to figure out how to collect them and do the work necessary to dispose of them most efficiently. And so if we say every time you buy a mattress it's going to cost you $40 there's no incentive for the industry to collect efficiently, there's no incentive for them to dispose of it efficiently, reuse the materials and to meet the other mandates. So we have not, as a general matter in recent years when we've passed EPR bills on carpeting and other things, set specific fees. We did a bill on bike and mobile batteries, which got signed into law last year as well. Again, there's no specific fee. So that is just, it's the model we use in New York to your question of how we've spoken about this endlessly is the answer. We passed this bill in the Senate in 2024 and last year and now it's moving again. My door is always open and I've talked with industry folks. There are differing opinions within the industry about what would be appropriate. There are some producers of lower cost mattresses that think we should mandate that there be a lower fee for their mattresses than the rest of the industry and then the rest of the industry objects to that. The extent the legislature is going to set a fee, we're going to be putting in statute something that may not reflect the actual costs over time And it just does not seem inefficient and it's certainly not necessary to make a program like this work.

[Senator Pete Harckham (Chair, NYS Senate Environmental Conservation Committee)]: Just a quick interjection if I may, we've been joined by our anchors Senator Steck, Senator Baino, and Senator Botcher. Welcome.

[Unidentified Senator (minority member)]: So my only other comment then is I think when you see another state doing it successfully, I think it's worth evaluating the way they're doing it, how it's working, and whether or not it's successful I guess is a subjective assessment. But I would think that it's worth looking at those other states or doing it differently than New York because again, we always seem to do things that burden our businesses, we're not transparent about costs and I'd like to see this be a different model so that we

[Senator Brian Kavanagh]: address those issues. I spent a lot of time thinking about EPR, working on it, looking at the Product Stewardship Institute research and I've been at national conferences about this issue. I'm very familiar with how this works in various places and I don't dispute that those other states programs are good and positive things. I think that our bill is more sensitive to not imposing excessive costs on consumers, and in those states the same people are lobbying for a fixed fee, and New York lobbied successfully for fixed fee in those places, but I don't think we're doing New Yorkers a benefit by saying every time you buy a mattress, you must pay $20 or $30 or $40 extra, even if that doesn't reflect the actual cost of collecting the thing.

[Unidentified Senator (minority member)]: Thank you for your discussion, I appreciate it. Same.

[Senator Pete Harckham (Chair, NYS Senate Environmental Conservation Committee)]: Alright, Senator Steck, do you have a question?

[Senator Dan Stec]: Well it sounds like I walked in mid conversation, but I was also going to ask about, you know, why are we reinventing the wheel if there's other states that are doing something point of sale, you know, and I thought you mentioned that we passed this bill a few times now. Why hasn't it become laws that held up in the assembly or is the government between and

[Senator Brian Kavanagh]: what's happening? It's been the assembly in recent sessions has Kind of run out of time at the June to do a number of things that were important, you know Hope springs a term of this will be our if we pass it incentives here to be our third time and I am talking to the sponsor over there and Hoping and expecting that we'll get to house passage this year The governor, you know, we've also spoken lot with DEASY and with the governor's office about EPR programs and just just I think you might have missed this part the conversation, but we are not reinventing the wheel. We are doing this EPR, this New York State EPR program in the manner that we do other New York State EPR programs. We do these programs somewhat differently than other states, but our EPR programs are quite effective and the goal is to make this one follow that model because it's the same agency that has implemented and on the same theory that we don't want to be charging people an artificial EIP every time they purchase a product.

[Unidentified Senator (minority member)]: I do think paint recycling is inherently different than mattresses for a lot of reasons, so I would say that maybe it's an opportunity to look at a different way of doing it because of the bulky nature of what we're dealing with. But I guess I mean, I

[Senator Brian Kavanagh]: don't dispute that you've looked at other avenues. I just I carpeting which we also did without a point of sale fee is substantially bulkier than this product and it also covers Astroturf. So again, and we've worked with industry to make sure that the terms of these programs are sensitive to the product they're talking about, but I think most consumers will understand that walking into the store and being told it's $40 extra because someday this is going to be disposed of is not. I'm not saying that that's the number that each student has to settle on, but I don't think that's necessarily a consumer friendly thing for us to do.

[Senator Pete Harckham (Chair, NYS Senate Environmental Conservation Committee)]: I would suggest points are all well made. Sponsors office is always open, door is always open as he mentioned, and then certainly when this gets to the floor, everyone will have actually a lengthier crack at the apple to discuss these topics. So with that, do we have a motion? Senator Hinchy has just joined us, thank you. And second? We have a second. All right. All in favor. Aye. Any without rec? Yes. One without rec. Any nays? One nay. All right. This will go to the calendar. I know your agenda said this will go to another committee, but this goes to the calendar. Our next bill is fourteen ninety seven by Senator Begging.

[Committee Clerk (unidentified)]: It acts on the environmental conservation law in relation to the paper carry out bag reduction fee.

[Senator Pete Harckham (Chair, NYS Senate Environmental Conservation Committee)]: All right. Questions, comments, concerns? We have a motion. Senator Bino, seconded by Senator Hinchy. All in favor. Aye. Any without rec? One without rec. Any nays? All right. That is referred to finance. Next bill, nineteen eighty four by Senator Harpam.

[Committee Clerk (unidentified)]: Act amending environmental conservation law in relation to directing the commissioner to publicly publish an annual report

[Senator Pete Harckham (Chair, NYS Senate Environmental Conservation Committee)]: on the environmental radiation surveillance program. And this is a bill that we passed before.

[Unidentified Senator (minority member)]: Move the bill.

[Senator Pete Harckham (Chair, NYS Senate Environmental Conservation Committee)]: We have a motion, we have a second. Thank you very much. All in favor, aye. Aye. Any without a rec? Any nays? Alright, this is advanced to the calendar. Our next is 257A by Senator Webb.

[Committee Clerk (unidentified)]: An act to amend the environmental conservation law in relation to the regulation of ingredients and personal care products and cosmetics.

[Senator Pete Harckham (Chair, NYS Senate Environmental Conservation Committee)]: Alright, another bill that we're familiar with. We have a motion by Senator Henschey, seconded by Senator Bino. Any other discussion before we vote on this? All in favor? Aye. Any without rec? Woman without rec? Any nays? No. Alright. So noted, and that is advanced to the calendar. The next is 60 three-ninety three by Senator Harkom.

[Committee Clerk (unidentified)]: And I commend the environmental conservation law in relation to recycling of electronic products.

[Senator Pete Harckham (Chair, NYS Senate Environmental Conservation Committee)]: That's another EPR bill. Questions, comments, concerns?

[Unidentified Senator (minority member)]: Move it.

[Senator Pete Harckham (Chair, NYS Senate Environmental Conservation Committee)]: We have a motion by Senator Hinche. Do we have a second? Second. Seconded by Senator Bacher. All in favor? Aye. Any without rec? One without rec? Two without rec? So noted. And that advances to the calendar. The next is 7553 by Senator Kavanaugh.

[Committee Clerk (unidentified)]: An act to amend the environmental conservation law and the state finance law in relation to establishing extended producer responsibility for tires.

[Senator Pete Harckham (Chair, NYS Senate Environmental Conservation Committee)]: Long awaited. Thank you sir. Questions, comments, concerns? Alright, do we have a motion? Okay. We have a motion by Senator Hinchy, do we have a second? I'll second that or Senator Bino, either way. Thank you. All in favor, aye. Aye. Any without rec? One without rec, any nays? No. All right. So noted, that is referred to finance. The next bill, 7,809 by Senator Salazar.

[Committee Clerk (unidentified)]: An act to amend the environmental conservation law in relation to establishing state composting programs.

[Senator Pete Harckham (Chair, NYS Senate Environmental Conservation Committee)]: All right. Questions, comments, concerns?

[Unidentified Senator (minority member)]: Okay.

[Senator Pete Harckham (Chair, NYS Senate Environmental Conservation Committee)]: We have a motion by Senator Hinchy. Do we have a second? All right. I'll second that. All in favor. Aye. Any without rec? Any nays? One without rec and one nay, so noted. That is referred to the calendar, that's a change from what's on your agenda, but that will go to the calendar. Our next bill, 8272 by Senator Steck.

[Committee Clerk (unidentified)]: Enact to amend the executive law in relation to including Hagbrooke in the list of inland water rights eligible for the local waterfront revitalization program.

[Senator Pete Harckham (Chair, NYS Senate Environmental Conservation Committee)]: All right. Questions, comments, concerns?

[Unidentified Senator (minority member)]: I'll move it.

[Senator Pete Harckham (Chair, NYS Senate Environmental Conservation Committee)]: Second. All right. Motion on the second and a third popular bill. Thank you all. All right. You're very welcome. All in favor. Aye. Any with that rec? Any nays? All right. That will move on the calendar. The next 09/1968 by Senator Fady.

[Committee Clerk (unidentified)]: An act amending environmental conservation law in relation to prohibiting the sale and distribution of anti fogging sprays or wipes containing perfluoroalkyl and polyfluoroalkyl substances.

[Senator Pete Harckham (Chair, NYS Senate Environmental Conservation Committee)]: All right, questions, comments, concerns?

[Unidentified Senator (minority member)]: Move it.

[Senator Pete Harckham (Chair, NYS Senate Environmental Conservation Committee)]: We have a motion by Senator Hinchy. Do we have a second? Senator Byno, thank you very much. All in favor, aye. Any without rec? One without rec. Any nays? Alright. That bill, moves to the floor. And our last bill, 9,452 by Senator Harkin. This is just an extender of something that we passed several years ago. It's actually been a very successful program on capturing usable excess food for our food pantries and food banks, and this is just extending it. Questions, comments, concerns? No. Motion. Second. Second. Thank you. All in favor? Aye. Aye. All right. Thank you all very much. And that concludes our agenda for today. Thank you.